Heather has one mommy

[BroomJockey]

http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/07/08/186205

There's a link in the article to a page where you can download a pdf of the study, but the gist of it is they've managed to use stem cells to create sperm cells. Embryonic stem cells, currently, but there doesn't seem to be anything preventing use of the few sources of adult stem cells, other than the slightly less flexible nature of those cells.

Personally, I find this a potentially horrifying move. And why I think that is why I chose the title I did. It would be possible for a woman to side-step cloning by getting some of their stem cells used to make sperm, and then fertilize her own eggs, thus being the only DNA source of her child. This would greatly increase the manifestations of genetic deformations that require both parents to be a carrier.

And then just to be tin-foil hat, let's suppose you get a compound of women who all decide to do this, and since you can select for sex and other physical characteristics, each woman would guarantee their offspring was female, and thus capable of also doing this. "Genetic purity" taken to an extreme.

[joe hx]

and since you can select for sex and other physical characteristics

if they could select for sexual and physical characteristics, then they could probably avoid genetic diseases as well.

[Greenday]

if they could select for sexual and physical characteristics, then they could probably avoid genetic diseases as well.

We are already getting to that point where we can discover genetic diseases before the baby is born. Some diseases can be detected fairly early too. But I don't agree with this. It's basically the same as inbreeding. And I don't like the results of that.

[Nyoibo]

Run to the hills the lesbian agenda is ccming true!

ahem... sorry about that. :p

I seem to remember a computer game that had this sort of premise, leading to a war of the sexes.


(adding) It's basically skipping the "go fuck yourself" and going straight to the end result. :lol:

[blas87]

I don't have an issue with early screenings and testing for diseases and retardations, but I'm pretty sure I have an issue with this new way of making babies.

[Boozy]

And then just to be tin-foil hat, let's suppose you get a compound of women who all decide to do this, and since you can select for sex and other physical characteristics, each woman would guarantee their offspring was female, and thus capable of also doing this. "Genetic purity" taken to an extreme.

That's a preposterous scenario. There's no reason to even think about it in any serious sense.

Honestly, the "one mommy" scenario is also astronomically unlikely. No one is going to want to get pregnant with a chilld that will likely have all sorts of genetic abnormalities and disabilities. Parents want to have healthy children.

[AdminAssistant]

One use cited in the blurb on CNN I heard was to give infertile men 'working' sperm. And that I could actually see as useful, though IMO it shouldn't be a focus of medical research right now, but whatever.

[BroomJockey]

That's a preposterous scenario.

Umm... That would be the reason I used the phrase "Tin-foil hat." The point was to point out an unlikely, extreme scenario. Would extreme man-haters even go for this procedure? Who knows? It was just to add a possible dimension of conversation.

[DesignFox]

Well, I guess it would allow lesbian couples to have their own DNA bred babies....

But we all know how I feel about the uses of fertility treatments, so...I'm gonna go with "this is scary" and "we're messing with shit that ought not to be messed with."

Shouldn't we be curing cancer or something??? Why all this focus on messing with fertility...? There's 6 billion of us! Enough already!

[Giggle Goose]

Shouldn't we be curing cancer or something??? Why all this focus on messing with fertility...? There's 6 billion of us! Enough already!


THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!!! We already have enough people, many of whom are suffering from such diseases that have yet to be cured. So I guess they're not important enough and we have to focus on how to creat more "perfect" people? :rolleyes:

[ArcticChicken]

We are already getting to that point where we can discover genetic diseases before the baby is born. Some diseases can be detected fairly early too. But I don't agree with this. It's basically the same as inbreeding. And I don't like the results of that.

The problem with inbreeding is that you're basically concentrating the DNA. If we can isolate and fix genetic diseases before they become a problem, then the only problem with inbreeding will be psychological.

Well, I guess it would allow lesbian couples to have their own DNA bred babies....

Every time I hear an article about cloning (I don't read the, I hear them on NPR), I think about how the same technology could be used to give any
couple a baby that's genetically theirs.

Shouldn't we be curing cancer or something???

There's a reason we can't do both?

Seriously, not every scientist can work on a cure for cancer, or AIDS, or the common cold.

Who's to say that messing with stem cells while looking for fertility treatments couldn't provide the insights needed to use them to cure cancer?

[Cassandra]

All I can think of is Brave New World where the babies are created in vats in a large warehouse. This scares me a bit.

Yes, I can see and agree with the fact that this will give many people children that are genetically thiers. I have known people that stated that the would never adopt because they want to be a part of the creation of something that is trully a piece of themselves.

What I don't like is the idea that there may be a group of people that will look upon this as a way of creating the "perfect" baby.

Count me in on the "let nature do it's thing" bandwagon.

[Greenday]

The problem with inbreeding is that you're basically concentrating the DNA. If we can isolate and fix genetic diseases before they become a problem, then the only problem with inbreeding will be psychological.

When we get to that stage, I won't care. Attraction is attraction. You can't just be like, no don't want to be attracted to someone. Either you are or you aren't. But that's for another thread. But could you imagine what it would be like if we could fix genetic diseases like that? The religious zealots will go nuts over it, condemning it and fighting it to the death.

[Lace Neil Singer]

But if there were no men... who'd take the bins out, unscrew jars and mow the lawn? O.o

I'm against too much meddling for the same reasons as Cassandra; I can really see Brave New World becoming a reality, and it's frightening.

[Flyndaran]

..
I'm against too much meddling for the same reasons as Cassandra; I can really see Brave New World becoming a reality, and it's frightening.
It can't. As important as genetics are to a person's being. It isn't everything, and it certainly isn't absolutely predictable.
There is such a thing as partial penetrance. It's where all we can know is the chance for such a gene or trait to express itself. We can't ever know for sure. Identical twins where only one is gay or left-handed.
The silliness with mating with yourself is that it is the ultimate incest. As long as it is illegal to bang your mom, it will certainly be illegal to mate with yourself.

[anriana]

My lesbian army has been preparing for this moment. Mwahahahaha.

[Slytovhand]

I'm not overly worried about it. Things change - societies, attitudes, life and death... this is just the precursor to a world that is completely foreign to us.

It's like fire... it itself is neither good nor bad, saint nor sinner - it just does what it does in the environment it's put into. It's what is done with it, the use to which it's put that makes the difference.

Now - how responsible do you think humans are with this sort of thing?

[Nyoibo]

Now - how responsible do you think humans are with this sort of thing?

Responsi-wha?

All I want to know is how is this going to benefit my eugenics program?

[Flyndaran]

...
All I want to know is how is this going to benefit my eugenics program?

Funny, but not really. Human eugenics would be best applied through careful zygote selection, and eventually genetic engineering.

I'm not overly worried about it. Things change - societies, attitudes, life and death... this is just the precursor to a world that is completely foreign to us.
...

If you have the technology to fix that many genetic defects, why not create the whole zygote to begin with?
This just seems like an interesting but eventually useless discovery.

[Slytovhand]

Not being a genetic scientist (although, my CW here is...), I don't know. Maybe there is something essential that they haven't figured yet. Also, maybe it will lead to that next..???

How interesting the world will be when natural conceptions and births are a rarity!

[DesignFox]

<snip>
How interesting the world will be when natural conceptions and births are a rarity!

But isn't the whole pregnancy ordeal part of the bonding experience for the family? I mean, isn't that what the whole hard on about fertility clinics and women having to have their own babies all about? There's plenty of kids that need adopting, I don't see people fighting over those babies, but I sure as hell see people spending thousands and fighting for their "right" to reproduce (even if nature says "no!")

We're already all so detached from one another...It kinda scares me to think of growing babies in tubes...

[Flyndaran]

...
We're already all so detached from one another...It kinda scares me to think of growing babies in tubes...

It would be no change for men. Not in us, to not in us.
Why, it could be far healthier. No sudden changes in hormone levels due to stress, perfect diets that no real person could do, greater safety, etc.

[Nyoibo]

Why, it could be far healthier. No sudden changes in hormone levels due to stress, perfect diets that no real person could do, greater safety, etc.

Co-ordination training, combat training, military theory, indoctrination...


... Sorry, just planning some things out here.

[Slytovhand]

Jango Fett??

[Nyoibo]

I was thinking more X-5.

[BroomJockey]

Co-ordination training, combat training, military theory, indoctrination...


... Sorry, just planning some things out here.

Clan Wolf or Jade Falcon?

[Slytovhand]

Clan Wolf or Jade Falcon?

House Atreides :D

[Flyndaran]

Co-ordination training, combat training, military theory, indoctrination...


... Sorry, just planning some things out here.

As long as we are all joking. There are probably people out there that think such stuff is actually possible.

[Nyoibo]

Hell if I have kids I'm going to be doing some stuff like that with them, mostly games and such that are designed to improve reflexes and co-ordination, that sort of stuff.

Then I'm going to turn them into trained killers. :p