School Uniforms and Inappropriate Elementary School Attire

[blas87]

Inspired by the Inappropriate School Attire thread on CS.

(*MOD NOTE - The OP (flutes and fabric) deleted that thread at CS and reposted it here on fratching. It has been merged into this thread.)

Argue the toss here, where it's more appropriate :)

Yay or nay?

Pros and cons of school uniforms?

Did you attend a school where a uniform or very strict dress code* was enforced? How does that affect how you feel about school uniforms?

*= growing up, there were private Christian schools or just private schools where, instead of an assigned uniform, the dress code was strict colors or types of shirts or pants, no facial hair on guys, no skirts or shorts, etc.

[Hobbs]

We had a dress code, but no uniforms. It wasn't strict, but it was enforced. The year I went into high school, the middle schools switched to uniforms, of which we were all happy. Oddly, though, since I've become an anime fan, I've wanted to attend a school with uniforms.

[DrFaroohk]

My only input is that whoever pays for the clothes gets to decide what they are. If the school wants a specific type of clothes worn, be it a specific uniform or general guidelines, they can buy them. Or the students can get jobs and buy their own clothes, and then no one should bitch if there's a big pot leaf or a middle finger on the shirt.

[Plaidman]

I'm for it. I've seen too many people get targeted for not wearing nice clothes. (Not me strangly enough. Ether that, or I just never realized or cared about insults towards my own clothes).

Yeah yeah originality and all that. Well, everyone has it. Yet assholes will pick on people who wardrove isnt to their standards.

Granted yes, this would not end bullies rampages, but it will at least take off one of the many pegs they use for it.

[Greenday]

I went to a public school that only had a dress code that involved nothing vulgar could be written on shirts and limits on skin exposed. Spaghetti straps were banned. Short skirts were banned. Other than that, everything else was free game.

I liked it that way. I like being able to wear whatever I want. I got picked on but picking on someone for what they were wearing was considered really weak in high school.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I don't have any particular problem with uniforms. I do think if uniforms are required there should be some kind of assistance for families that would have a financial hardship from being forced to buy extra clothes. I also think the "khakis and blue shirt" -type uniform is better than having to buy specific articles of clothing (like Catholic school uniforms). Your options are much broader that way when it comes to where to shop and how much to spend.

The only schools in my area when I was growing up that had uniforms were the Catholic schools (as far as I know that's still true). I went to public school, and while there was a dress code it was not especially strict. Though when I was in school girls' fashion wasn't quite as revealing as some of the styles are these days (I graduated high school in 1993). There were plenty of short skirts, though, I suppose. No one wore spaghetti straps and pants weren't cut to sit halfway off your ass, either. The only incident I ever saw with someone being told to change was a guy wearing a shirt with a beer logo (this was in high school). He didn't have another shirt so he was made to turn it inside out.

[Talon]

Strangely enough I find myself thinking school uniforms are a good idea.
Why I have no idea. I had to wear a uniform in my elementary school years, and I hated it. I didn't like feeling like an interchangeable drone, plus I clearly remember one douche of a teacher who made sure to publicly humiliate some kid who for whatever reason couldn't wear the uniform that day. Bullying definitely still happened, uniform or not.

I suppose if uniforms really do help reduce the incidence of bullying, I'd be in favour. My lab monitor in college grew up in South Africa, where the schools had uniforms. He claimed such schools have better academic results than schools without uniforms. If that's true, I'm all for it. Individuality can wait until after school.

[Plaidman]

You know, I just remembered that in High School, it was brought up to have School Uniforms. You know how they decided?

The board let the students decided.


What a shock that it was VASTLY voted down. Like, as in 99 percent of the school. I'm likely one of the very few that said yes.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I recall there being studies whose results were both for and against uniforms. In all cases it was rather lightweight in that only a small portion of students was ever effected and even so, only slightly.

Even if there was something really significant to support uniforms, I still wouldn't go for it. Personally, I've never found anything to be quite so uncomfortable to wear as nice clothes. Not just a lack of comfort, outright discomfort no matter what style, whatever. Every time I had to dress nice, I made sure to bring a set of my usual clothes, otherwise I'd be uncomfortable and thus unable to concentrate all day. It probably doesn't help that I'm not a very attentive person to begin with (not ADD, just prone to analyzing and dismissing a topic long before someone's done talking)

Granted, all of this is anecdotal, but nevertheless I feel that those who are adversely effected are probably equal in number to those who may benefit. If you can't concentrate on work because of what people are wearing, that's your problem that you and your parents (at this given stage) need to fix, not everyone else.

My sense of individuality developed almost in it's entirety before I got anywhere near graduating from highschool, it would be wrong to deny people that sense of self merely because a few others may do better in an arbitrary set of purely academic areas. But my rant about the over-obsession we have with academia is for another day...

[Amanita]

I am not a fan of uniforms. Especially sexist ones where girls HAVE to wear skirts or dresses.

Even with uniforms, kids still find ways to distinguish between the haves and have-nots, it's just a bit more subtle. If it's not the clothes they pick on, it's jewellery, hair, shoes, the "right" toys, or a hundred other things. What do you do? Forbid ALL personal items, accessories, and the like? Even if you did that, the bullies would just turn to the other things they like to razz people about- height, weight, hair, etc.

I would not want to go to a school where I couldn't even wear a necklace of my own choosing. I felt dehumanized enough as it was.

On the other hand, there is NO need of the stuff described in the CS thread (Although I might give a pass to the fairy- it's odd but not offensive). Kids don't need to be wearing hooker-wear and obscene things. Yes, even with uniforms, the truly determined find ways to sex things up if they want to.

As a compromise, I would be in favour of a reasonable dress code:
Skirts/shorts must be of a certain length, no cheating by "rolling"
Pants must be worn at or close to the natural waist, no "sagging" or extreme low-rise
Underwear is just that-underwear. Keep it UNDER your clothing
No spaghetti staps or muscle shirts
No excessively low-cut tops
Nothing see-through, unless something (besides underwear) is worn underneath.
No vulgar images or words on clothing

Something like these guidelines would cut out the really innappropriate stuff while still allowing lots of room for individual choice.

[KellyHabersham]

The high school I went to here in Phoenix didn't have a specific dress code, I know there were a few guidelines, but clothing was left up to the students and their parents.

However, the elementary and junior high schools that I attended in northern Arizona were a little more specific with dress codes.........guys couldn't have long hair, hats weren't allowed in the classroom, and girls were almost not allowed to wear pants. (oh, and I believe male teachers were required to be clean-shaven)

[protege]

Even if there was something really significant to support uniforms, I still wouldn't go for it. Personally, I've never found anything to be quite so uncomfortable to wear as nice clothes. Not just a lack of comfort, outright discomfort no matter what style, whatever.

Damn, I thought I was the only one! Why is it that "nice" clothes, are the most uncomfortable things ever? Seriously, I hate getting dressed up. Mainly because I went to a Catholic grade school, and had to wear nice clothes, including ties on Mondays, for 8 years. Did I mention that button-down shirts are uncomfy when you have a tie on?

As such, I don't get dressed up very often. For work, I usually wear polo shirts and khakis. I'm not about to wear a fucking suit when crawling around on the floor routing network cables. Nor can I tolerate frying in a hot office with a suit on. Screw that.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Damn, I thought I was the only one! Why is it that "nice" clothes, are the most uncomfortable things ever? Seriously, I hate getting dressed up. Mainly because I went to a Catholic grade school, and had to wear nice clothes, including ties on Mondays, for 8 years. Did I mention that button-down shirts are uncomfy when you have a tie on?

As such, I don't get dressed up very often. For work, I usually wear polo shirts and khakis. I'm not about to wear a fucking suit when crawling around on the floor routing network cables. Nor can I tolerate frying in a hot office with a suit on. Screw that.

As did I, guess misery loves company :p

Ditto on the impractical part. They just don't serve any practical purpose whatsoever. To the point where I'm convinced some puritan fuckface specifically designed dress clothes to be uncomfortable in a fit of masochistic fervor.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Especially sexist ones where girls HAVE to wear skirts or dresses.

I agree with that. I don't think girls should be required to wear skirts. For one, they can be impractical, depending on what you are doing at school. Most school uniform skirts are knee-length and that sucks in cold weather. And some girls just might not be comfortable wearing a skirt and they shouldn't be forced to.

[flutes_and_fabric]

I have this on CS, but some debates sprung up over uniform policy and private vs. public. Also, the schools are not in good areas, so there were some issues over descriptions of the families of these students (white trash) and some problems over why one of my schools (I'm at 2) is successful while the other isn't if they're both in the same area. I'll explain more if any of these subjects come up. Anyway, here's the post:

So today was a very warm day and one of my schools does not have ac. There were some very interesting outfits today. We had to send out a mass e-mail to parents along with some very interesting calls home. Here're some of the outfits I saw on children today:

3rd grade: stilettos, booty shorts, shirt that ended just below the boobs, hair teased, thick eyeliner, bright red lipstick (mom's a "dancer" and saw nothing wrong with her daughter's outfit)

4th grade: very long very painted nails (little decorations and rinestones glued onto the nails) not too bad, but kinda not something worth wasting money on

5th grade: spaghetti strap tank that's so loose, anyone taller than this girl (almost everyone) could look down her shirt and see no nos.

4th grade: spaghetti strap tank that's so low it showed nipples

3rd grade: boy with the words "fuck me" on his shirt

4th grade: boy with a big pot leaf

5th grade: fairy costume, complete with wings (more funny than inappropriate)

5th grade: shirt turned into a dress, no she didn't wear any pants (and we sit cross legged on the carpet in the younger grades)

4th grade: bright pink lip stick (done by mommy)

5th grade: boy just upped the gauges in his ears, I don't know how the sizing for them work, but I can now fit my thumb through his earlobe

4th grade: tank and tights (no pants, and I'm not talking spandex bottoms, I mean tights...with a control top)

3rd grade:...stuffed bra...

and I don't see any of these students 1st period, so they were all in another class already. My other school has uniforms, so they don't really face these problems.

a lot of boys have pierced ears now, and both of them, not just one

I had to fill out an abuse form today. This boy was wearing a t shirt and he hadn't raised his hand yet, so the other teachers hadn't noticed it yet. Sure enough in my class I ask a question and he's jumping out of his seat, arm in the air. I see...a tattoo. I call on him and mention "nice temporary tattoo." He tells me it's not temporary. I glance at it and sure enough, it looks pretty real. But he could be lying, you know how kids want to seem tough. I call the nurse. She calls him down a few minutes later. Next class I have to fill out my portion of the forms. It was real. 4th grade.

Bonus teacher outfit: lots of cleavage. Stilettos, tight shorts that go to just above the knee, white shirt that comes down over her stomach, black lowcut shirt overtop with the word "juicy" written over her breasts in rinestones.

Also, just wanted to mention a couple of the more interesting (but common, so they won't be able to identify themselves) names I have come across. I have 2 DD's. Yes, they spell their name DD. Pronounced just like the letter. And, I have a la-a. I had no idea how to pronounce it. Apparently it's ladasha (get it, - = dash). Oh, there's also a .y (dotty) and an an4 (anfour). And like I said, common. Between the 2 schools I had at least 2 of each of these names (my friend has 3 la-a's.)

[MaggieTheCat]

However, the elementary and junior high schools that I attended in northern Arizona were a little more specific with dress codes.........guys couldn't have long hair, hats weren't allowed in the classroom, and girls were almost not allowed to wear pants. (oh, and I believe male teachers were required to be clean-shaven)

I never had school uniforms or even a strict dress code when I was in school, but the more I read and hear about them, the more I think they're a good idea. However, I have issues with any school that doesn't allow guys to have long hair. Probably because my husband has long hair (and has since he was in middle school) and I just don't see why it's an issue. I know once a few months back there was a thread on here about a boy who was forced to cut his hair for school, and the school's policy was that they encourage children to groom themselves properly so they'll be decent and civil members of society when they grow up, or some BS nonsense like that. As if all boys who have long hair are uncultured barbarians, or punks who do drugs and get into trouble all the time. It just really pisses me off. Besides, it's completely biased...does the same school require all girls to have long hair and prohibit girls from having "boy" haircuts?

I also don't think girls should be required to wear skirts/dresses. I like skirts now, but I never did when I was in school and I would have HATED wearing one as part of a uniform. And as someone else already pointed out, they're not practical all the time. What do the girls do for gym class? Are they allowed to change (and if so, into what?) or are they expected to run around playing dodgeball in a skirt?

[BookstoreEscapee]

I...do not even know where to start...

[telecom_goddess]

I just don't get the requirements of "clean shaven" "no long hair on boys"...really what the hell difference does it make?? Or piercings for that matter.

As for dressing up...I hate that with a passion. Dressy clothes are more uncomfortable and I like to be comfy :p. Same with shoes...dressy shoes hurt and athletic shoes don't so that's what I go with.

[lordlundar]

I...do not even know where to start...

Might I suggest a flamethrower for the parents that allow this?

[Rageaholic]

Damn, I thought I was the only one! Why is it that "nice" clothes, are the most uncomfortable things ever? Seriously, I hate getting dressed up. Mainly because I went to a Catholic grade school, and had to wear nice clothes, including ties on Mondays, for 8 years. Did I mention that button-down shirts are uncomfy when you have a tie on?

As such, I don't get dressed up very often. For work, I usually wear polo shirts and khakis. I'm not about to wear a fucking suit when crawling around on the floor routing network cables. Nor can I tolerate frying in a hot office with a suit on. Screw that.

I hate dressing up, fucking hate it. Not only is it uncomfortable, but it makes me look like a damn dork. It's why I hate job interviews and other social functions like weddings that you have to dress up for.

My opinion on uniforms, it's just another stupid rule schools make, with their line of reasoning most likely something along the lines of "Well in the REAL WORLD, you have to dress up, so you might as well get used to it now". Just another way to get kids to comform.

[KellyHabersham]

I just don't get the requirements of "clean shaven" "no long hair on boys"...really what the hell difference does it make?? Or piercings for that matter.

I think much of that may/may not have had to do with the fact that this was in a small town, and the vast majority of people (this including school officials) were members of the LDS church. Or perhaps it was just that, for whatever reason, the dress code hadn't been updated in a long time.

[Amanita]

Count me in as another who says "WTF?" to rules against long hair on men. I love long hair on guys, and think that as long as it's kept reasonably neat, then what's the big deal?

I understand trying to stop the worst of inappropriate clothes (that elementary thread over at CS), but do we really need to strip children of their individuality to do that?

Count me in also as another who generally doesn't like to dress up. I love fancy goth and Pagan gear, but all too often, that stuff is "not acceptable". It sucks, it really does. At the same time, at least us ladies have more options- for guys it's usually a suit or nothing.
After all, how many restaurants specify "jacket and tie for men"? What about a guy who shows up in ethnic dress clothes (that don't include a western suit and tie)? Would he be allowed in because it's in keeping with the spirit of the rule, ie- dressed up? Or would he be kept out for not strictly following the letter?

[Amanita]

I would give a pass to the fairy costume (unless the wings were a safety hazard)- it's unusual, but not massively inappropriate or offensive like the other outfits were.

A child with a real tattoo? Wearing a shirt with "Fuck me" on it? Stripper wear on a third grader?
Ewww!

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Might I suggest a flamethrower for the parents that allow this?

No, flamethrowers only have enough fuel to eliminate a few targets grouped together in a confined space. I would recommend instead an AA-12 (Automatic Assault 12) shotgun loaded with 'safety slugs' which cause massive tissue damage without the chance of over-penetrating or ricocheting :D

[HYHYBT]

I didn't realize letting your child get a tattoo was actually abusive.

[Amanita]

I think it's because of the permenant nature of the tattoo- it's not like a piercing, where the kid can take it out later if they decide they don't want to keep it. Unless you're willing to pay $$$ for tattoo removal (which doesn't always work so well), you're stuck with it.

[Greenday]

I didn't realize letting your child get a tattoo was actually abusive.

Tattooing a 9-10 year old? How are real tattoos at all appropriate for someone that young?

[Jester]

I was responding to this thread in CS.com and suddenly it wasn't there anymore, probably because of a lot of the debates and discussions that sprang up in it. Since I spent some time and thought on my post, I saw no reason for it to go to waste, so I am posting it here, including all the comments from others that I quoted, even if those comments are not present in this incarnation of the thread.

I'm not so bad boy on the boys having ear pierced. I had my left ear pierced in the third grade.

I have no more issue with boys having their ears pierced than girls. It's less of a double standard than it used to be, but it still is a double standard. I look at it this way...if the kid (of whatever gender) wants their ear or ears pierced, and the parents are fine with it, I have no problem with it either. I am not really fond of the parents who have their girl baby's ears pierced, and I am sure some people will disagree with me here (hell, my best friend did that to both of her daughters), but in my mind, that is something that one should decide for themselves, boy or girl. Beyond that, though, I could care less.

As for the names: I'm all for parents having some originality, but there's a point where you're setting your kid up for ridicule. And giving your kids names that are more appropriate as screen names definitely fits that. La-a? Really? DD I can at least accept, but putting #s and symbols is just wrong.

Sure, they're setting their kids up for ridicule. So are parents that give their kids names like Bertha, Melvin, and Dorcus. How is that any different than the "creative" names being discussed? You say that putting punctuation and symbols in names is "just wrong," but yet we as a society accept periods (J.T.) and apostrophes (O'Dell) in names. Why not other punctuation marks?

What was "just wrong" once is often acceptable later on.

What is "just wrong" for us may be perfect acceptable for other people. I have personal experience with this part: I despise my middle name, and pretty much ignore it, and don't tell people what it is. I use only my first and last name. Whereas my stepfather goes by his middle name, and and always has. And hates his first name. He admits to it more than I admit to my middle name, though, as he signs everything as "F. Middle Last."

So yeah, I think it was silly when those people a few years ago named their child "ESPN." But there are loads of people who think *I* am silly, for a whole number of reasons. So in the end, who am I to judge such things?

Almost makes me wish we were like some other countries that must approve names.

Glad you put in that first word. Because personally, I would never want to live in a place that controls our creativity, especially on something as basic as naming our children.

Yeah, the problem with putting symbols in your name is that there are so many different ways to pronounce them. Ladasha could be lahyphena. And .e could be periode. And an4ney could be anquatroney. And who does that!

And there are tons of ways to pronounce "acceptable" names. I have met Andreas who demand that their name is "AND-ree-uh," while others insist they are "OND-ree-uh," and still others that say they are "on-DRAY-uh." How is that different?

And then there are the names that look and sound completely different. My favorite of these is the head coach of the Duke University basketball team, Mike Krzyzewski, which is pronounced "shuh-SHEF-skee." Now, I ask you, how do you get THAT pronunciation out of THOSE letters? Yes, I know, I know, it's a foreign name. So what? Doesn't change the fact that if you just looked at it, you could (and probably would) pronounce it completely differently. Myself, if I didn't know how to pronounce it, I would probably take a stab at "kriz-uh-ZOO-skee." And I am usually pretty good at pronouncing odd names!

There are times I am happy to have such a boring, average name. :D

Oh, and there are these twins, one is named moonbeam and one is starshine.

So? I have met people named Winter and Meadow and Autumn and Sunshine and Destiny and Charity and Faith and Willow and Summer and on and on. I know, some of those names are "acceptable." But why should Summer be more acceptable than Winter? Why should Rose be more acceptable than Meadow? Sunshine more than Moonbeam? Hell, I knew one girl who hated her name, which was Callista. Her parents got her name out of the Bible..."Callista" was Latin for "chalice." As she told it, "I was named for a freakin' CUP!" Another girl I knew from South America was named Soledad, which I think is a beautiful name. (As I did Callista, incidentally.) She hated it. Why? "It means solitude. How depressing."

There are times I am bummed to have such a boring, average name. :D

Tattooing a 9-10 year old? How are real tattoos at all appropriate for someone that young?

In a lot of cultures, that would be very appropriate. It is not considered normal in ours at this time, but it wasn't that long enough that a 10 year old laboring in a coal mine was totally acceptable. What is and what is not acceptable changes over time, usually by people doing things that are initially outside the accepted norms of that society.

Mind you, I am not saying I personally approve of this. I am merely pointing out that such a thing is not universally unacceptable or even that odd.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I gotta agree with Jester on the ear piercing. Why is it OK for a little girl (hell, some people do it on infants) to get their ears pierced, but not a boy, if he really wants it? It's not like it's some irreversible procedure. You can always take the earrings out and in most cases you can't tell there's a hole there unless you look closely. And in some cases the holes close up anyway. Personally, I wouldn't have my baby's ears pierced; I would wait until she was old enough to ask to have it done (I was 11 when I had mine done, and 12 when I got a second set of holes, which have since closed up. I hardly ever wear earrings these days).

I have mixed feelings on the tattoo on a 10-year-old. I'm curious what kind of tattoo it was. If it is indeed a cultural sort of thing, I would be more OK with it (as long as it wasn't done against the kid's will). But if it was just "I want a tattoo" I wouldn't let my kid do it until he was older...because I have no cultural traditions of tattooing. If I ever have kids and they want tattoos, they can get all the ink they want when they're 18.

[BookstoreEscapee]

Count me in as another who says "WTF?" to rules against long hair on men. I love long hair on guys, and think that as long as it's kept reasonably neat, then what's the big deal?
Clean and relatively neat is a reasonable requirement; I hate that schools can dictate what style you can cut your hair. (Not that I've ever encountered it, personally, but it's just such a petty thing.)

At the same time, at least us ladies have more options- for guys it's usually a suit or nothing.

This is true. When I started working at B&N, the dress code for guys was a shirt and tie. There was a dress code for women, as well, but you could get away with so much more. No jeans, but pants that are cut like jeans but not denim (cords, khakis, etc.)? No problem. I basically wore the equivalent of jeans and a t-shirt most of the time anyway. Guys no longer have to wear ties, but they still have to wear a collared shirt (they can wear polo shirts, though).


(PS - "that elementary thread over at CS" is over here, now.)

[HYHYBT]

Tattooing a 9-10 year old? How are real tattoos at all appropriate for someone that young?I didn't say they were appropriate, only that I'm surprised it actually qualifies as abuse. Lots of things are inappropriate without being abusive.

[Ree]

I was responding to this thread in CS.com and suddenly it wasn't there anymore, probably because of a lot of the debates and discussions that sprang up in it. For the record, the mods did not delete that CS thread. The original thread was deleted by the OP.

Just wanted to keep the facts straight. ;)

[BookstoreEscapee]

For the record, the mods did not delete that CS thread. The original thread was deleted by the OP.

Just wanted to keep the facts straight. ;)

I was thinking it odd that it would have been deleted for the debating. Usually they just get closed...wouldn't have thought things would get heated enough over dress codes to get deleted all together! :p

[Lace Neil Singer]

In a lot of English schools, there is a uniform; and believe me, there are loads of stuff that kids can do to customise uniforms. When I was at my secondary school, there were several customisations that were popular:

Biro tattoos
Friendship bracelets
Sewing cotton bracelets
Coloured laces
Knee high socks
Ties tied so that the little piece stuck out at the top
Ties with all the white part removed
Heart shaped earring studs
Paperclip necklaces

There were probably more, but those were the most popular. Also, makeup and jewelry wasn't allowed, but still worn; skirts were rolled up to make them shorter; girls took liberties with school shoes, getting shoes like Doc Martens or ones with a little heel on them. The teachers would have to be punishing every single girl to enforce a strict dress code on the unform. They didn't bother.

And for the record, uniforms don't stop bullying at all. Bullies are basically nasty, mean people who will pick on hair, weight, height etc if their victims are wearing uniforms. They don't really need any reasons. And yup; uniformed kids still form cliques.

[Greenday]

In a lot of cultures, that would be very appropriate. It is not considered normal in ours at this time, but it wasn't that long enough that a 10 year old laboring in a coal mine was totally acceptable. What is and what is not acceptable changes over time, usually by people doing things that are initially outside the accepted norms of that society.

Mind you, I am not saying I personally approve of this. I am merely pointing out that such a thing is not universally unacceptable or even that odd.

In this era, in this country, it's not at all appropriate. That's what my statement is based on.

I didn't say they were appropriate, only that I'm surprised it actually qualifies as abuse. Lots of things are inappropriate without being abusive.

Permanently etching ink into a child's skin can easily be deemed abusive.

[flutes_and_fabric]

I was thinking it odd that it would have been deleted for the debating. Usually they just get closed...wouldn't have thought things would get heated enough over dress codes to get deleted all together! :p

Since my other reply was deleted, I'm going to say again that I didn't actually delete my thread. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me. I'm not sure why it was deleted though b/c I haven't gotten any message about it yet.

[Ree]

Since my other reply was deleted, I'm going to say again that I didn't actually delete my thread. Not sure who did, but it wasn't me. I'm not sure why it was deleted though b/c I haven't gotten any message about it yet.As I pointed out in PM...according to the note on the deletion stamp, you did delete your first thread at CS, but I deleted the repost, as you had already posted it over here.

Your repost on this site was merged to an existing thread, as they were pretty much the same topic.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

[flutes_and_fabric]

As I pointed out in PM...according to the note on the deletion stamp, you did delete your first thread at CS, but I deleted the repost, as you had already posted it over here.

Your repost on this site was merged to an existing thread, as they were pretty much the same topic.

I hope that clears up your confusion.

I'm not confused. I really don't like my post being merged because I do not like the uniform debate since I get too much of it at work. It may be a similar topic, but uniform policy is not the only point to be argued in this thread as the merge would imply. Members have to read through 4 pages of uniform debate before getting to my post which is supposed to be a commentary on bad parenting. Having uniforms at this particular school would not solve the issue, so there is no reason for it to be here.

[Jester]

After all, how many restaurants specify "jacket and tie for men"?

While I have been to restaurants and clubs that have certain dress codes, I have never been to one that dictated a dress code that draconian. And the gods willing, I never will.

One thing I love about living in Key West is that I can go to any bar, club, or restaurant wearing just what I am wearing right now...a t-shirt and shorts. Some of the fancier places have some limits on that (no tank tops or cut-off denim shorts for guys), but the fanciest place in town will welcome me in sandals, cargo shorts, a goofy t-shirt, and a ball cap, and give me just as good service as if I showed up in my most GQ outfit.

One of many reasons this is my kind of town. And why South Beach....isn't.

Permanently etching ink into a child's skin can easily be deemed abusive.

A lot of things can be "deemed abusive." Some people deem spanking to be abusive. As an uncle and a person who has lots of friends with children, I happen to know that sometimes Hand-to-Butt communication is the only kind that works for misbehaving children. I am not talking about beating, mind you, but about a healthy attention-getting swat. Admittedly, this is not spanking per se, but I am not opposed to that in its punishment form either. Hell, there are people out there who will make an argument that my parents abused my sisters and myself when we were kids by smoking in the house and car when we were there.

My point is that a lot of parents would not think that tattooing is abusive. You do. At the moment, it is against the law, but a lot of things are against the law that you or I might deem silly, as some of these parents might deem that law silly. And remember, societal norms and mores change...and laws often follow.

[AdminAssistant]

Eh, I don't feel sorry for men when it comes to dress code. A button up and a tie has to be more comfortable than a skirt, hose, and 3 inch heels.

[BookstoreEscapee]

My point is that a lot of parents would not think that tattooing is abusive. You do. At the moment, it is against the law, but a lot of things are against the law that you or I might deem silly, as some of these parents might deem that law silly. And remember, societal norms and mores change...and laws often follow.

Is it against the law if the parent gives permission? I guess it might vary by state.

[Greenday]

Okay, I don't get it. What's so uncomfortable about skirts? I've found them to be VERY comfortable. They aren't the least bit restricting. My junk can hang more freely. What's the fuss over wearing a skirt?

[Jester]

Eh, I don't feel sorry for men when it comes to dress code. A button up and a tie has to be more comfortable than a skirt, hose, and 3 inch heels.

I have yet to see a workplace that has a dress code that requires 3 inch heels. At least, a workplace that doesn't have a DJ, a light system, and brass poles.

Is it against the law if the parent gives permission? I guess it might vary by state.

I don't know the laws. I believe that a tattoo shop probably needs the tattooee to be 18, but I don't know if the law precludes the parents or a relative from giving the minor a tattoo.

At 39, I am neither tattooed, a tattoo artist, a cop, or a legislator, so I am not exactly an expert on the subject.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Okay, I don't get it. What's so uncomfortable about skirts? I've found them to be VERY comfortable. They aren't the least bit restricting. My junk can hang more freely. What's the fuss over wearing a skirt?

Having to wear one. I personally love skirts; I wear a skirt or dress when I go out, often with tights, sometimes with knee highs, if weather permits, then with bare legs and sandles.

However, when I was at school, I hated wearing skirts and dresses and whenever I could, I wore trousers. That was cuz of being made to wear a skirt at school. Incidentally, I've never worn a skirt of that type before; ie, a bang on the knee skirt. My skirts and dresses are always extra long or extra short.

[telecom_goddess]

Well since this seems to cover several topics now I want to add my piece finally.

Tattooing... I have two and if the kids wanted one past the age of say 13 but under 18 I would give my permission...I don't find it abusive. Hell my kids have done their own tattoos on their feet and stuff already.

School uniforms...I think they are a waste of time. Like some have said it doesn't stop bullying and it just forces kids to all be the same and suppress individuality.

Dress code...I'm lucky in my work ....even though we are supposed to be "business casual" I wear capris most days, comfortable shirt and athletic shoes. I hate dressing up and since I'm in the corner on my computer all day I don't see why I should.

Another note on that...why do golf courses have dress codes and not allow shorts?? I never understood that, especially on hot days...wtf.

[AdminAssistant]

I don't like skirts because 1) my legs are pasty and icky and should always be covered and 2) my thighs rub and that's really uncomfortable. So, I almost always wear pants. If I wear a dress or skirt, it's always with tights or hose of some kind.

My school had a common sense dress code that really worked. No sagging or low rise jeans. No offensive language. No bare midriffs. Tank tops had to have a strap as wide as three fingers. Skirts and shorts had to come down to three inches below the knee. That kind of thing. Oh, and no facial piercings, including tongue piercings. I can't remember if there was a rule about tattoos, but nobody I knew had one so...:shrug:

[Amanita]

What's the fuss about skirts? I can't speak for all the other ladies here, but personally I feel exposed and vulnerable wearing something completely open at the bottom like that, unless I can hide a pair of biker shorts or the like underneath. And I won't wear skirts shorter than the ankle, out of possible exposure concerns. Yeah, I have an odd modesty complex.

As Lace said, the other issue is choice. Even though I can hide shorts or leggings under a skirt, it still has to be my choice about whether to wear one or not. If it's enforced on me because of my gender, than it's no longer a choice, but a sexist requirement. And any place that imposes such on me is not a place I want to be associated with.

[lordlundar]

No, flamethrowers only have enough fuel to eliminate a few targets grouped together in a confined space. I would recommend instead an AA-12 (Automatic Assault 12) shotgun loaded with 'safety slugs' which cause massive tissue damage without the chance of over-penetrating or ricocheting :D

You put a lot of thought into that, didn't you?:p

[Wingates_Hellsing]

You put a lot of thought into that, didn't you?:p

I take the elimination of threats with minimal bystander risk very seriously. And you could say weaponry is my forte :D

[BookstoreEscapee]

Okay, I don't get it. What's so uncomfortable about skirts? I've found them to be VERY comfortable. They aren't the least bit restricting. My junk can hang more freely. What's the fuss over wearing a skirt?

Well, seeing as how we don't have "junk" that's not a concern for us. Maybe we should reverse the "acceptable" norms for skirt-wearing. And it's not necessarily about physical comfort, per se, but emotional (for lack of a better word) comfort. If you don't like the way your legs look, you might not want to have to wear something that shows them.

I don't know the laws. I believe that a tattoo shop probably needs the tattooee to be 18, but I don't know if the law precludes the parents or a relative from giving the minor a tattoo.

I vaguely recall an episode of Wife Swap (I think) where the dad took his 16-ish year old to get a tattoo (kid already had some facial piercings). The "new mom" was horrified. :p

[XCashier]

I'm for it. I've seen too many people get targeted for not wearing nice clothes....Yeah yeah originality and all that. Well, everyone has it. Yet assholes will pick on people who wardrove isnt to their standards.
It happened to me. Seventh grade, I was transferred to another school for the gifted program. Well, this school was in the richer part of town, and my family was always poor. So here's this weird-looking girl wearing clothing that's 10-15 years out of date, obviously hand-me-downs or garage sale fodder, surrounded by rich kids wearing expensive designer clothing, with alligators on their chests and swans on their arses. And since I didn't fit in, obviously I was scum, and treated thusly. :mad:

I don't know if uniforms would've made a difference or not. I suspect they still would've figured out I'd gotten my uniforms secondhand, and not from expensive designers. :rolleyes:

[Plaidman]

Tattoos in different states all have different laws. Some you must be 18. Others state you need permission from parents.

Others you need permission from only one parent

Others you need written permission from both parents, and at least one must be present during the tattoo.

Some have minimal ages (like 14 years)

Others have no minimal age as long as parents are there

Colorado has no law at all. You can be any age, and you don't need permission.

[jackfaire]

My parents were already having to buy my clothes from second hand stores. Sports was expensive and you had to pay the school for the use of uniforms and equipment. Having to buy uniforms for me and my siblings would have forced my parents to home school.