Boy Suspended Over Rosery Beads.

[Rageaholic]

Because they could be deemed "gang related". WTF?

http://www.comcast.net/video/boy-suspended-for-wearing-rosary-beads-to-school/1500163941/Comcast/1500117177/

Why is this even a big deal?

[Hobbs]

I think the boy's final comment is right on the money. I've worn a rosary to school before and never got hassled for it; except by the uppity stereotypical athiest at my school (she seriously was. I'm not being snarky or anything).

[guywithashovel]

It says that the school's policy says that beads are not allowed.

That does sound petty, but there may be a legitimate reason why. They didn't give a whole lot of details.

I don't mean to downplay the kid's experience, but I've found that when you investigate these incidences, often a larger context is revealed that makes them make more sense.

[HYHYBT]

Generally, that "larger context" is simply a rule that wasn't thought through clearly.

[Ree]

Gang awareness (http://www.sanantonio.gov/saPD/pdf/Awareness.pdf)

The use of colored beads is also popular with gang members. The
color of the bead is dependent on the color the gang has adopted for
their gang. The bead can be made into a necklace as illustrated or
worn in the shoelaces, made into a key chain, worn in braids in their
hair and used in other fashions. Colored rubberbands worn in hair
braids or around their wrist can also be indicators of gang membership.
The use of colored rosary beads and other religious articles have also
been noted. These are subtle indicators of gang membership and are
often hard to notice if you are not looking for them. With the
introduction of strict dress codes and the use of uniforms in the school
systems these type of indicators seem to be favored by the gangsters.This thing of wearing the rosary is a new concept for me. Is it a cultural thing?
I was raised with the idea that my rosary was for praying, and not for decoration. In fact, wearing the rosary as jewellery was considered sacrilegious.
I understand why the boy is wearing the rosary, but if school policy says no visible beads, then that's the policy.
They aren't saying he can't wear the rosary. They are asking him to keep it covered, just as they do for other students.
Wearing beads outwardly violates the school district code of conduct, which forbids the wearing outwardly of anything that would "denote represent or be deemed to be gang-related, including, but not limited to bandanas, colors, flags or beads." The school says students are allowed to wear beads but must keep them underneath their clothing.

[Rageaholic]

I just think the rule is stupid and obsessive, like how a lot of schools are. Would I deliberatly break the rule and wear beads? No, it wouldn't be that big of a deal to me, but to me this is another example of school officals having a bug up their ass.

[Hobbs]

This thing of wearing the rosary is a new concept for me. Is it a cultural thing?
I was raised with the idea that my rosary was for praying, and not for decoration. In fact, wearing the rosary as jewellery was considered sacrilegious.
I understand why the boy is wearing the rosary, but if school policy says no visible beads, then that's the policy.
They aren't saying he can't wear the rosary. They are asking him to keep it covered, just as they do for other students.
It's sacreligious if it's for jewelry/decorative purposes, but the boy said it wasn't; it was in memory of someone who had passed.

I've been wanting to get my Boondock Saints rosary, and once I do I'll wear it. I'll also pray w/ it. It's a spiritual choice.

[joe hx]

When I was in public school, if the school didn't like something, they just had to say it was "gang related" and they could ban it.

Tatoos? gang related.
Scars? gang relared.
Lanyards? gang related.
Yo-yos? Gang related
Sunglasses? gang related.
Unnatural hair colors? gang related
those weird contacts? gang related

Yes, some of it is gang related. But yo-yos?

[Boozy]

Once again, we have everybody-and-their-brother second guessing the judgment of the school administrators who were actually there.

I'm not saying that we should have blind faith in school officials, but could we not at least admit that there are nuances to every situation that require a human interpretation of school policies? This school is concerned about gang activity. They have reasons to prohibit clothes and accessories that could be related to gangs.

Besides, what's the big deal? The boy can place the rosary under his shirt.

[Red Panda]

Its a big deal because some religious folks think they have to be in your face regarding their faith.

[HYHYBT]

No second-guessing here: you've posted the school's policy (or rather, Ree has). It's wrong on its face: ANYTHING can become a gang symbol. If one thing is banned, they'll move on to something else. So banning anything that might be used as one is, at best, silly.

[Red Panda]

You can however ban things that have been used in the past. It will cut down on the options availiable to the gangs. Using rosery beads is a practice that originates in jails, so its not like the school is randomly picking on religious people for no reason.

[McDreidel09]

Its a big deal because some religious folks think they have to be in your face regarding their faith.

As was stated before, the boy was wearing them in memory of a loved one who passed away. I even have a rosary, though I am not religious. I have it because my best friend gave them to me before he went to the Army. I wore them as a reminder of him until he came back.

[BlaqueKatt]

except by the uppity stereotypical athiest at my school (she seriously was. I'm not being snarky or anything).

I'm sorry-you met a fundamentalist atheist, we don't like them anymore than regular Christians like Fred Phelps-we're not all like that I promise.

[Red Panda]

As was stated before, the boy was wearing them in memory of a loved one who passed away. I even have a rosary, though I am not religious. I have it because my best friend gave them to me before he went to the Army. I wore them as a reminder of him until he came back.

If its just a momento then why can't he wear it under his cloths according to school policy?

[Ree]

The school is not banning the beads in this case.
They aren't even banning the rosary.

The student was not suspended for wearing the rosary. He was suspended for refusing to wear it under his shirt during school hours.

They are simply asking students to keep the beads covered up during school hours to prevent possible violence related to misunderstandings and assumptions that the beads are being worn for gang related purposes.

Schools are allowed to set dress codes.
In this case, they have focused on the use of beads by gangs.

This isn't just something the school board has done on a whim.

Gang violence is a prevalent and serious problem across the nation, and this particular area, Schnectady, NY, is no exception.

Children are dying due to gang related violence.
There have been cases of students shot down or knifed because they were wearing something that was thought to be gang related, only to find out later that it was a mistaken impression.

It may seem like overreaction and obsessive, and ridiculous, and there may be fears of "what next?" but erring on the side of caution to prevent violence and death on school property seems like good idea to me.

Temporarily putting your rosary under your shirt during school hours seems like a small price to pay.

Schools can't start making exceptions for one student.

Just because this boy is wearing his rosary in memory of dead relatives, the school can't say, "Oh, in that case go ahead," and then turn around and tell another kid, "Sorry, we know you have gang affiliations, so you have to cover up your rosary."

[protege]

Gang violence is a prevalent and serious problem across the nation, and this particular area, Schnectady, NY, is no exception.

Children are dying due to gang related violence.
There have been cases of students shot down or knifed because they were wearing something that was thought to be gang related, only to find out later that it was a mistaken impression.

Ree, I hear ya. Contrary to popular beliefs, violence can, and does happen everywhere. Up until recently, where I live, gangs were thought of as an "inner city" problem. That is, until several fights broke out in the next 'burb over. Two groups of suburban white kids wanted to emulate the idiots in the inner city by forming gangs. All of that ended...after they'd roughed up several people (who weren't even *in* either gang) for simply wearing the 'wrong' colors in there respective areas :rolleyes: In fact, even in the inner city, you couldn't wear certain colors. To do so, you'd risk your life.

And yes, I remember the gang wars of the early 1990s here. It seemed that someone was getting shot nearly every night then. Things have calmed down somewhat--most of idiots are either in jail or dead now. Even in the late 1990s, you could hear gunshots at night in certain areas...and many sections of town would set the traffic lights to "all green" at night so you didn't have to stop because of carjackings. But, even now, schools will still bust students for wearing certain colors (usually blue or red scarves), and have been known to bust them for making threats.

Stupid? Probably not. Unfortunately, the schools have to do something. If they don't, and violence happens, who gets blamed for it? 99.9% of the time, the school officials will get raked over the coals for "not doing anything to stop it." Yet, when they do something, like banning beads or colors, people bitch about how "strict" they're being. Sorry, but banning gang symbols is a small price to pay for someone not getting hurt!

[Greenday]

As it's been astutely pointed out, he wasn't even asked to removed the beads. He was asked to tuck them under his shirt. Hardly a major offense. If it's gang related, it's gang related. It's better than him getting stabbed or shot because of wearing the wrong colors.

[Fire_on_High]

This thing of wearing the rosary is a new concept for me. Is it a cultural thing?
I was raised with the idea that my rosary was for praying, and not for decoration. In fact, wearing the rosary as jewellery was considered sacrilegious.


It's a Hispanic custom, yes.

[HYHYBT]

OK, I'd never thought about it that way around before. If instead of "you can't wear that because it means you might be in a gang, and we don't want anyone to find out" it's "you can't wear that because someone might think you're in the wrong gang and harm you," that's different!

[McDreidel09]

I'm not saying he was right about not following school rules. All I was pointing out was that his wearing the rosary was not religious. He absolutely should have tucked his beads in his shirt, since it is according to the rules of the school.

[jackfaire]

Also no one in a gang is going to say, "Oh sorry yeah I am wearing my rosary because I am in a gang so you should let me wear them" Instead they would have a "reason" for wearing them.

[crashhelmet]

This is a battle schools will never win unless they develop a dress code so strict that it involves exactly how someone's hair is to be styled and what jewelry is allowed. Otherwise, some overly paranoid administrator is going to associate anything and everything with gang activity.

Even then, what happens when a local gang happens to use the same colors as the school uniform?

Are they going to eliminate sign-language because someone may inadvertently start flashing gang signs?

It's all recockulous if you ask me.

CH

[jackfaire]

It's one thing for a "paranoid administrator" to decide something must be a gang symbol and a completely different thing for the gang to actually use something as a gang symbol.

Religious symbols, rosaries, crosses, bibles, etc have been used as gang symbols for years because it is hard to ban those things due to the large amount of christians in this country. Meaning you could conduct gang activity with impunity.

[DrFaroohk]

I'm wondering if the boy's final comment is true; where he said that there are other people with more obvious gang signs who get left alone. This sounds typical of a school.

My take on it is that the school has to look like they give a crap about gang symbols, but seriously, do you wanna go tell a gigantic black dude who's probably armed to the teeth that he can't wear his gang sign? I sure as hell don't. But if I were at that school I would have to make it look like I was really enforcing the rule, so I'm gonna go pick out little boy blue and find something wrong - if it wasn't the beads it'd be something else. This way no one can say "Hey, you're not enforcing the rules." Of course I am, but I'm taking the easy way out, going through the motions just for show. Same as I expect this school is handling it.

[Red Panda]

Most schools do take gang activity seriously, even the most brutal gang won't bother going after the school administrator who kicked them out of the place they don't want to go. Its possible if the boy is telling the truth that he is aware of a new sign the administration hasn't caught wind of yet. Officials are after all typically three steps behind of everybody else.

[BookstoreEscapee]

When I was in public school, if the school didn't like something, they just had to say it was "gang related" and they could ban it.

Tatoos? gang related.
Scars? gang relared.
Lanyards? gang related.
Yo-yos? Gang related
Sunglasses? gang related.
Unnatural hair colors? gang related
those weird contacts? gang related

Yes, some of it is gang related. But yo-yos?

Scars? How the hell do you ban scars?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Scars? How the hell do you ban scars?

By kicking out everyone who has a scar! ZERO TOLERANCE!!!11!!!

[Red Panda]

Or maybe preventing people from carving stuff into their arm with a paper clip.

[Hyena Dandy]

It seems to me its a case of the kid refusing to follow a rule he doesn't understand. And in this case, its very possible that he was completely innocent. His rosary beads were just rosary beads. He didn't understand why he had to hide it, because to him it was something deeply related to someone close to him. This relationship with the beads made it seem ridiculous to him that he would get in trouble for honoring his loved one's memories.

At my school, there was a big protest because long umbrellas were banned. It seems reasonable to protest, but they weren't banned until after a student hit the principal with one.

Or maybe preventing people from carving stuff into their arm with a paper clip.

Some people like to hurt themselves. Some people are more creative about it than others. Those people need help, not to get in trouble. I'm not saying it can't be related to gangs. I'm just saying it seems important to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[Red Panda]

There's a pretty clear distinction between cutting or branding. If a person carves "South side 4ever" into their arm its probably not because they are hurting inside.

[Hyena Dandy]

There's a pretty clear distinction between cutting or branding. If a person carves "South side 4ever" into their arm its probably not because they are hurting inside.

I said we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, not that we shouldn't throw out the bathwater. Barring all visible scars wouldn't work, even artistic visible scars. If a gang name is cut in, then obviously its gang related. But if there's, say, a celtic cross design, or a smiley face, those could be gang related, but I have a formerly suicidal friend who cut both of those into her arm, and she wasn't in a gang.

[fireheart17]

This is a battle schools will never win unless they develop a dress code so strict that it involves exactly how someone's hair is to be styled and what jewelry is allowed. Otherwise, some overly paranoid administrator is going to associate anything and everything with gang activity.


Believe it or not, both of these have come up in some high schools and in the case of the former, two all-boys boarding schools I'm aware of have that rule in place: if the hairstyle is not an acceptable one, the student will be sent to have their hair cut and the cost is charged to the students account.

[DrFaroohk]

Believe it or not, both of these have come up in some high schools and in the case of the former, two all-boys boarding schools I'm aware of have that rule in place: if the hairstyle is not an acceptable one, the student will be sent to have their hair cut and the cost is charged to the students account.

I don't like this. I'm all for dress codes if its really really necessary, but I also think the responsibility should fall on the school to provide said dress code. If they're the ones who want it that way, they should buy the clothes, supply "code friendly" makeup, and pay for the stylist themselves.

Oh gee whiz, we just discovered dress codes aren't that important!

[Red Panda]

I said we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, not that we shouldn't throw out the bathwater. Barring all visible scars wouldn't work, even artistic visible scars. If a gang name is cut in, then obviously its gang related. But if there's, say, a celtic cross design, or a smiley face, those could be gang related, but I have a formerly suicidal friend who cut both of those into her arm, and she wasn't in a gang.


The Celtic Cross is a symbol for the Aryan brotherhood so it shouldn't be allowed because of that association, both because it is innapropriate but also to protect the student who doesn't realize the brotherhood will kill them for showing the symbol if they aren't a member

[Kimmik]

The Celtic Cross is a symbol for the Aryan brotherhood so it shouldn't be allowed because of that association, both because it is inappropriate but also to protect the student who doesn't realize the brotherhood will kill them for showing the symbol if they aren't a member

While yes the Celtic cross/ Odin's cross is used in the Aryan movement. It is not generally a tat that one has to earn, like the spider web. It also depends heavily on the stylization of the cross and any numbers and or words that may be tied in to the Cross. Also the Cross that is used by most Aryans is one where the arms do not go past the circle which is also referred to as the Sun cross.

Sadly any tat can be used for "not nice" purposes. But those in gangs and gang like groups.. tend to have tats that are not likely to be misconstrued as oh hey look this is cool... Now if the the celtic cross also was tied in with 777 then I would worry that the person was going to get their butt kicked if they were not white.