I live in country + Like guns = I have problems [Archive]

insertNameHere

05-23-2010, 08:21 AM

I live in the country, I like to go shoot guns its legal, I spend $20-30 a week on handgun ammunition because until about the start of this month and when it was announced that Obama won. There was a run on ammo, you couldn't just walk into walmart and purchase a be able to purchase any caliber like the good old days. Many people stockpiled for fear of what Obama would do creating shortages, to the point walmart limits customers to 6 boxes a day because for about 6months to a year people could EASILY, buy a $10 box of ammo and sell it for $30-40 no questions asked or haggling at a gun show/store.
SO, I would purchase ammo when it was in-stock because it could be 1week to 3months until they got another shipment. Now, my local walmart's has decent supply for 9mm and .40 on the shelves for the past week or two. still a crap shoot on .45, 38 special, .357 mag and HAHA haven't seen a box of .380 in 2 months and they get shipped out by the BOX not case to the stores.

I recently as in 2 days ago picked up my Concealed Handgun License(CHL) after taking 10hrs of classroom training and 2 hrs of range time to become certified then going to sheriff for background check. total of about $200.

The thing i hate is people who look at me like im a manic because I choose to exercise my 2nd Amendment rights. Which I get at work I shouldn't probably mention my shooting habit but hey, best friend graduated police academy and wants to stay in practice. Also, I only mention guns to people I know are pro-gun or let them bring it up because well MANY of our customers are "redneck" as a coworker suggests of me.

It really started because I'm very familiar with Ohio's gun laws and what I can or can't do. Like for instance open carry is legal no permit needed and my one manager is a jackass for suggesting we call the police on a customer who was OCing since ONE it is legal, and TWO we aren't posted! WE do have a COMPANY policy for EMPLOYEES against having weapons but nothing of customers. He needed to google Ohio Revised Code to find out i was right and actually knew what I was talking about. Along with a random woman asking me why I wasn't bothered by that man "running around with a loaded gun" I calmly explained that he meant no harm to either of us and well if anyone in the store was intending to rob me armed citizens are more convincing deterrents that the obvious cop car if it parked out front.

I live in northern Ohio, friend came up from Southern Ohio brought WW2 rifle for me to experience, great time mentioned it to a few people, when they asked why I was sun burned. Also, as I stated I know which customers are pro-gun, generally any marine, even the 80yr old guy will appreciate firearms. For people, I have no idea who they are I just don't mention. Well a regular who I speak with often enough about various firearms came in and I shared the new story along with a picture of results to a coffee can that a cantaloupe was placed on, and he was mentioning selling his AR15. When another customer came over and joined our conversation, about some of his "toys" (hate to refer to guns as toys but eh, his words). My coworker emerged from the back at this point and was like WTF why do you talk to random people about guns. I really think he needs to work 3rd shift during hunting season, he would quickly learn how many people who aren't cops own guns. And it is nice to talk on a common ground with customers about something other than gas prices or weather. I also know my management would shit themselves if I informed them of just the customers I KNOW have CHLs and carry on a regular basis.

It just pisses me off when people who have never shot a gun and refuse to, treat me like I'm some militia extremist considering (I don't even own an assault rifle) but keep 3 guns in my room (12 ga shotgun, .22 rifle, 9mm handgun). Yet if I mention my dad is a cop they seem to not freak out as much when I continue the list.

Then there is my friend who yelled at me for shopping with my gun the other day after I got my CHL, I didn't go anywhere guns weren't welcomed and there are certain parts of the city I just feel safer knowing I can protect myself. Especially with the fact the major city by us is back and forth with laying off police and where i live in the country the sheriff is pulling out of and well considering the response time is 30min when they 3miles down the road, I can't imagine what going to happen when they on other side of county with fewer numbers.

smileyeagle1021

05-24-2010, 12:25 AM

I have never understood the anti-gun crowd either. I choose not to own a firearm, because I do not trust myself. I know that I have paranoid moments where it is much better for me not to be carrying a lethal weapon. I do support stringent gun control laws (mandatory background checks, mandatory training and testing, mandatory registration of firearms... which oddly no one bitches about having to do all of the above with cars), but I would never support a ban on guns.
Hey, if you can pass the test and you are a responsible citizen and you desire to carry a firearm, more power to you, don't let my squeemishness get in the way.

BlaqueKatt

05-24-2010, 02:02 AM

I do support stringent gun control laws (mandatory background checks, mandatory training and testing, mandatory registration of firearms... which oddly no one bitches about having to do all of the above with cars

the only thing on this list many gun owners, including myself, have an issue with(and rightfully so*) is mandatory registration of firearms. The reason being lists of registered firearms have been used to seize legally owned firearms from law-abiding citizens. Lists were used in the soviet union, and Germany to disarm the "undesireables" before sending them to concentration camps, and they were used in the US post-Katrina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katr ina#Confiscation_of_firearms)-which some of those people are still fighting to get their legally owned property back. If it happened then it could happen again-mind you the local police used the government backed National guard to carry out the seizures-there was no justification to do so, the only firearms seized were those legally registered, and the criminals doing the looting and firing at aid workers did not own registered firearms-all it did was eliminate the public ability to protect themselves when the police were not able to do so.

smileyeagle1021

05-24-2010, 03:37 AM

There is nothing to say that lists won't be misused, but there are several valid reasons for a registration, not the least of which being tracking lost/stolen guns. How else do you prove someone has a stolen gun without there being some oh so evil list out there somewhere that shows who rightfully owns it? Also, knowing that the gun can be traced back to you gives A LOT of incentive to keep track of it. I know if I had a gun that could be traced back to me there is no way in hell that I'm going to allow it to get lost and making damned sure I do everything I can to prevent it getting stolen, which would in turn help reduce the amount of firearms that are circulating illegally (as my understanding is that most of them are stolen). It of course won't put an end to gun theft, but it provides much greater incentive to at the very least be mindful of where it is so that it gets reported sooner. None of the valid and useful reasons for a registry are dependent on the negative aspects of it.
Using the Nazi aspect isn't really valid... as it is that I'm one of the people who would have been rounded up by the Nazis, I know all the well the consequences of allowing totalitarionism, and I would still have no problem registering my firearm (if I had one), no more than I mind registering my car. We should not ignore the good for fear of the bad.

Hobbs

05-24-2010, 04:08 PM

Using the Nazi aspect isn't really valid... as it is that I'm one of the people who would have been rounded up by the Nazis, I know all the well the consequences of allowing totalitarionism, and I would still have no problem registering my firearm (if I had one), no more than I mind registering my car. We should not ignore the good for fear of the bad.

My demography would have been rounded up too. I'm really tired of people who keep using the statement you just made.

draggar

05-24-2010, 04:19 PM

I don't use guns but that's because I'm a horrible shot. (I could take a shotgun, point it to my monitor now, pull the trigger and I'd miss). If I was a better shot I'm sure I'd have my own now (especially considering where I live) but we have protection trained dogs and I sleep with a sharpened sword under my bed and whenever I'm out walking the dogs I have pepper spray with me.

But FL has similar laws - only a background check to purchase and carry a gun but some training to get a CWP. I don't have an issue with people who want to pack heat - in fact, for Christmas my father in law bought my wife a gun (a nice one, too - .38 Special) and she's getting her CWP - I may get mine, too since it can transition to a gun permit in most states (and another CWP in many states). I used to see people packing heat in the stores. It doesn't bother me as long as they're RESPONSIBLE. Flaunthing it around and showing it off to a group of strangers IS NOT.

My wife's family was also taught how to use a gun when each child turned 12 (they were never allowed gun toys since guns aren't toys and my father in law is an avid gun collector). For their 12th birthday they'd get a gun but also a lock and a cleaning kit. He'd have them learn how to service it, take it apart, put it together, different types of ammunition, etc.. and after all that was done he'd take them to his gun club to teach them how to shoot.

People need to realize that not everyone who carrys a gun isn't a militia maniac, a murder, or some gun freak. Most have it as a deterrent or even protection (and considering how the economy is now you need it more than ever).

People also need to learn that gun laws will do very little for crime, if anything it will increase crime since people who do abide by the laws may not be able to get a gun.

BlaqueKatt

05-25-2010, 12:05 AM

Using the Nazi aspect isn't really valid... wasn't aware Russia was full of nazis or new orleans circa 2005-do like how you picked out one of three though

as it is that I'm one of the people who would have been rounded up by the Nazis,

Good for you, my family tree has many gaps because well, members of my family DID GET ROUNDED UP and exterminated, not just "might have been"-feel better now-I'm jewish. It is much easier to hide a sexual orientation than it is to hide a religion or heritage. Not like there was a list of people belonging to the gay club, but there were lists of temple members.

We should not ignore the good for fear of the bad.

And those that give up liberty for safety-deserve neither.

Liberty-freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

Wingates_Hellsing

05-25-2010, 01:12 AM

We're not ignoring the good over the bad, we're saying that the bad is pretty freaking bad, enough so to address in some way at least. And it was with the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 which prohibits the confiscation of legally owned firearms during a disaster. Whether or not this prevents said authorities from trying something similar in the future remains to be seen.

smileyeagle1021

05-25-2010, 01:51 AM

And those that give up liberty for safety-deserve neither.

Liberty-freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

and who said that you have to give up liberty to get safety?
Just because Nazis and Russians and Americans in the past did something does in no way mean that it necessarily will happen in the future.

And Hobbs, you're right, people pointing out they would have been rounded up by the Nazis does get old... perhaps it would be best if we left the actions of the Nazis out of American politics.

daleduke17

05-25-2010, 03:30 AM

And Hobbs, you're right, people pointing out they would have been rounded up by the Nazis does get old... perhaps it would be best if we left the actions of the Nazis out of American politics.

Even though there may be similarities that are present or beginning to appear?

Wingates_Hellsing

05-25-2010, 03:34 AM

smileyeagle1021

05-25-2010, 04:54 AM

Also, isn't learning from the past a good thing?

Past events may not happen again necessarily, but they are an indication that something similar can happen, and it pays to either be ready them, work to prevent them, or both.

indeed learning from the past is good, however, most mention of Nazism is to generate a knee jerk emotional response.

insertNameHere

05-25-2010, 05:25 AM

I actually didn't know about the new Orleans thing, although I did hear looters were shooting at cops and OH yeah many cops abandoned their posts, which sucks for those we then were completely defenseless. I don't like the idea of having to register my weapons especially with all the bullshit freedom of information requests done by the media, like when they published the list of everyone from our county who had a concealed carry and hence most likely has a gun that you might be able to steal from them. SO I could imagine, if criminals were to find out who had what registered where, and i don't like the idea of someone relieving me of my gun safe when I would leave for work.

Also, I'm pretty much willing to teach anyone I know to shoot because the sooner they learn guns aren't to be feared for being guns the sooner I can hear them quit bitching about guns. There is only one guy that pisses me off for owning a gun because he bought it never having shot a gun before, and was putting off coming to my house to learn till he bought one, still doesn't really know shit but is at least sort of competent. I use that phrase because I went over to his house and the gun was laying on his headboard with a magazine half inserted and I asked "WTF?". His reasoning was he didn't want it to be accidentally loaded if someone came over and saw it. To which I said "Ok that makes perfect sense actually." At this point he got pissed off when I grabbed the gun did a Tap, Rack,and Yell bang while pointing at his alarm clock. "See the problem I just demonstated any dumb fuck you know that is gonna to shoot themselves with your gun if it is loaded is going to tap the mag into it and then rack the slide chambering a round. You have several options, keep the mag loaded and OUT OF THE GUN, keep the mag loaded and in the gun, keep the mag unloaded and in the gun. or sell me your gun because you don't need it."

Oh, almost forgot he then had to ask me how were gonna get the bullet out of the chamber without firing it. <-ok legitimate question but one that should ahve been known before using the gun and certainly before loading it.

Cat

05-25-2010, 12:13 PM

I'm nervous around guns, I am not against them (I went to a day camp as a kid where we where taught to shot rifels...fun!) I just hate all lough noise, and while I do know there is a very little chance the gun near me will go off, it's that...oh crap, possible loud noise thing.

I've never seen anyone carrying in CT, I think I'd make me uncomfortable, but hey, if they can legally carry, its their choice.

Now, I love knive of all sorts, and usually have a small knife on my person. (my fave one is a wee bit too big :( )

Boozy

05-25-2010, 12:24 PM

I'm terribly nervous around guns, too. Probably because I have no experience with them.

The only times I've ever seen a handgun in real life is in cops' holsters. I've never seen one drawn.

blas87

05-25-2010, 04:09 PM

Every time I joke about "I need to get a gun" (although I really, really should), I always get some sort of flack from someone who has to educate me about how evil guns are and how don't I know that you can't carry guns around with you and you are teh stupid!!!.....oh jeebus christ most of the time it's a joke, and if I did get a gun, I would not take it anywhere with me other than to the shooting range. Maybe it's not the brightest idea to joke about, but I'd rather have one here at home and NEVER need it, than be stuck running around trying to find something to defend myself with before someone bashes in my windows or bashes down the door. You just never know.

Hobbs

05-25-2010, 04:12 PM

I sometimes have to control my rants about which gun I'm gonna buy once I get my CC license. I'd seriously not wanna get a cheapy...I have a fondness for Sig Sauer, especially the P239 and 226. Walthers are nice too. I like the P239 b/c you can buy a conversion assembly to make it fire .357 or .40 S&W.

insertNameHere

05-25-2010, 05:12 PM

.... but I'd rather have one here at home and NEVER need it, than be stuck running around trying to find something to defend myself with before someone bashes in my windows or bashes down the door. You just never know.

Ever watch a horror movie? First off they run past the open front door and run into a closed off part of the house and try and call the cops. Only reason for me to do that is well I have a gun and if your trying to kill me the 9mm is just to hold you off long enough to the 12ga loaded with 3in 00BK that sent a pumpkin flying 80ft with 5 seconds of hangtime. I believe that would be more than enough to hold off several intruders. If not I would be in gun safe and grabbing wide assortment.

Wingates_Hellsing

05-25-2010, 05:28 PM

A probably somewhat famous person once said that "A pistol is what you use to fight your way to a rifle." :D
And that's why I want to get a SBR, if there's one thing that defeats the purpose of using a weapon during a home invasion, it's trying to use something longer than your doorways are wide.

That aside, you should see the reaction when a city-dweller like myself comes out in support of guns, it's like, "but you live in a CITY, don't you know that guns are BAD?!??!"

BlaqueKatt

05-25-2010, 11:22 PM

but I'd rather have one here at home and NEVER need it, than be stuck running around trying to find something to defend myself with before someone bashes in my windows or bashes down the door. You just never know.

well if you do decide pm me I know of a range(it's in the basement of a gun store) between you and me that lets you rent any of the used handguns they have-sort of a "try before you buy" which is quite important-for example I can easily shoot my .40 cal, but my husband can barely handle the kick from a 9mm-he does better with a .22-so it's good to get a feel of what you can handle before spending a couple hundred dollars on something.

crashhelmet

05-26-2010, 12:01 AM

I have no problems with people that feel free to exercise their rights granted by the Second Amendment. I have issues with how that Amendment is interpreted sometimes, but that's for a different thread that probably has been created and closed many times over. I'm too lazy to search for that right now. With that said, I myself own a 9mm handgun and a .22 caliber rifle.

Touching on points brought up by the OP.
Open Carry - People get nervous when firearms are carried in public due to fear. Hollywood has sensationalized so much that people don't know if you're a law abiding citizen, a wannabe cowboy, or some gangsta thug ready to pop a cap in some foo.

Registration - As others have pointed out, registration is used to track stolen firearms as well as making sure that people that shouldn't have them, don't.

CH

Hobbs

05-26-2010, 12:37 AM

Where's your proof that OC will make people nervous?

Cat

05-26-2010, 11:55 AM

Where's your proof that OC will make people nervous?

I did mention the site of people carrying would make me nervous (again, I am not against guns, I did enjoy shooting the rifles at camp, and would visit a range). I hate loud noises, and guns=potential loud noise.

Yes, I am aware that chance that gun will go off is very very very very little, but it still makes me nervous. But that is just me.

As long as it legal, do what you want to do. Now, I am going to make sure I packed my knives for my hiking trip :) (shiny....pretty....)

AdminAssistant

05-26-2010, 12:47 PM

Count me as another person who is uncomfortable with open carry. I didn't realize we were back in the Wild West, where we all had to carry a penis extension firearm to feel safe

Wingates_Hellsing

05-26-2010, 02:30 PM

Count me as another person who is uncomfortable with open carry. I didn't realize we were back in the Wild West, where we all had to carry a penis extension firearm to feel safe

I never thought of it that way, it literally didn't occur to me that all our police officers were impotent jackasses whose weapons are unnecessary. Oh well, I guess we should do away with them as well!

Nyoibo

05-26-2010, 02:32 PM

I get nervous around anyone carrying a gun, cops included, but that's because of my training and knowing exactly how easy it is to disarm someone, and also the one simple fact that guns are meant to kill, plain and simple, they have no other purpose.

Hobbs

05-26-2010, 03:31 PM

I did mention the site of people carrying would make me nervous (again, I am not against guns, I did enjoy shooting the rifles at camp, and would visit a range). I hate loud noises, and guns=potential loud noise.

Yes, I am aware that chance that gun will go off is very very very very little, but it still makes me nervous. But that is just me.

As long as it legal, do what you want to do. Now, I am going to make sure I packed my knives for my hiking trip :) (shiny....pretty....)

Count me as another person who is uncomfortable with open carry. I didn't realize we were back in the Wild West, where we all had to carry a penis extension firearm to feel safe

Sorry, but two people on an internet forum isn't a valid argument to say "people" are afraid of open-carry laws.

No one's saying everyone has to carry, Admin.

blas87

05-26-2010, 03:54 PM

Society became the Wild Wild West again when outlaws decided to tote guns around wherever they desired, the law be damned, and mentally ill people started stalking innocent people and criminals and other undesireables started randomly breaking in to just about anyone's home to steal anything of any value, or randomly starting problems with people that lead to violence and death.

If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them.

The locals around here started calling a home invasion/robbing spree this one guy did "The Robbery Crusades" because for several weeks, almost months, he broke in to several homes in several areas of several towns, stealing anything of any value he could find. It didn't matter what kind of neighborhood or part of town it was. His favorite place was the city my parents live in, and I worried every day that he'd break into their house.

I will accept that I cannot have a gun with me on my person or in my car, but damn if anyone will stop me from having pepperspray or a knife. I will openly admit I'd get a taser gun if I could get my hands on one. There are too many unstable people in any area of any place to take chance. Sure, some of it is hysteria and paranoia stirred by the news, some of it is real and based off of stuff that has happened in your own city or neighborhood or even to YOU. I have had multiple stalkers. I would have felt a lot more safe had I had a gun in my apartment, or at the time had always had a knife on me. And damn if anyone will keep me from having a gun in my home. If anything, that's the most important place.

I don't push others to own guns, I just hate when people try to make me out to be a paranoid freak or a dumb redneck for being in favor of them.

Hobbs

05-26-2010, 04:01 PM

Blas, you can get a taser, just not the pistol-type the police use.

Here's a helpful link: http://www.itaser.com/product_tour.html

Racket_Man

05-26-2010, 04:46 PM

and who said that you have to give up liberty to get safety?
Just because Nazis and Russians and Americans in the past did something does in no way mean that it necessarily will happen in the future.

And Hobbs, you're right, people pointing out they would have been rounded up by the Nazis does get old... perhaps it would be best if we left the actions of the Nazis out of American politics.

the Liberty quote was made, if I remember correctly, was none other than Ben Franklin

here is the entire quote and a bunch of paraphrased quotes

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

This was written by Franklin, with quotation marks but almost certainly his original thought, sometime shortly before February 17, 1775 as part of his notes for a proposition at the Pennsylvania Assembly, as published in Memoirs of the life and writings of Benjamin Franklin (1818). A variant of this was published as:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

This was used as a motto on the title page of An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania. (1759); the book was published by Franklin; its author was Richard Jackson, but Franklin did claim responsibility for some small excerpts that were used in it.

An earlier variant by Franklin in Poor Richard's Almanack (1738): "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power."
The saying has also appeared in many paraphrased forms:

They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.

He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security.

He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither.

People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.

If we restrict liberty to attain security we will lose them both.

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither.

Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.

Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.

here is the wikiquote page that comes from.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

the liberty quote is about 1/3 of the way down.

and again I remind everyone what George Carlin said in his last concert
"Right are just a set of temporary privliages. and rights are not 'rights' if they can be taken away on a whim".

oh and the Nazi thing, it is STILL very much alive a kickin here in the US and Europe. not that they call themselves Nazis but the message and the signage is a very very similiar one.

This next statement applies very much to the US:
I guess we should talk to the Irish or the Germans or or the Italians or the Jews or the French (remember Freedom Fries from 9 years ago??) or the Blacks or Hispanics, or the gays or the trans-gendered or the Natives of ANY COUNTRY after colonialism (even AFTER they were "set" free") and see what they say about discrimination and the statement "NO we will NEVER do that again". yeah what a joke that is.

look at Arizona (a created problem dating back to the 19th Century not a recent thing)

Hobbs

05-26-2010, 04:52 PM

the Liberty quote was made, if I remember correctly, was none other than Ben Franklin

here is the entire quote and a bunch of paraphrased quotes

here is the wikiquote page that comes from.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

the liberty quote is about 1/3 of the way down.

and again I remind everyone what George Carlin said in his last concert
"Right are just a set of temporary privliages. and rights are not 'rights' if they can be taken away on a whim".

oh and the Nazi thing, it is STILL very much alive a kickin here in the US and Europe. not that they call themselves Nazis but the message and the signage is a very very similiar one.

This next statement applies very much to the US:
I guess we should talk to the Irish or the Germans or or the Italians or the Jews or the French (remember Freedom Fries from 9 years ago??) or the Blacks or Hispanics, or the gays or the trans-gendered or the Natives of ANY COUNTRY after colonialism (even AFTER they were "set" free") and see what they say about discrimination and the statement "NO we will NEVER do that again". yeah what a joke that is.

look at Arizona (a created problem dating back to the 19th Century not a recent thing)
Sorry if I don't bend to the opinions of a comedian. Rights can only be taken with due process.

That said, our statement about Nazi's has nothing to do with the neo-Nazi movement. We were discussing the use of the term "Nazi" against a particular stance/opinion you disagree with.

Skelly

05-26-2010, 05:04 PM

AdminAssistant

05-26-2010, 06:40 PM

I never thought of it that way, it literally didn't occur to me that all our police officers were impotent jackasses whose weapons are unnecessary. Oh well, I guess we should do away with them as well!

*sigh* You know exactly who I'm talking about. The wanna-be crusaders who think that the government is out to get them, that taxes should be illegal, and that they should be the ones who administer the law. Their wanna-bes, plain and simple, and these are some of the last people that I'd want with a deadly weapon.

So? Some people need to be killed.

Who gets to make that decision? You? Me? I'm pretty sure that's why we have a legal/judicial system.

Wingates_Hellsing

05-26-2010, 07:10 PM

So you're going to paint every gun owner and/or carrier with he bad example of a small minority? IF you're talking about vigilantees, not only is that a completely different thing, but it's also illegal. OC and CC-ers aren't administering justice, they're providing for their own protection and that of others.

Also, the judicial system is all well and good, but it won't save anyone's life once the lead's in the air. Shooting back will, which is why police officers do it so often.

Skelly

05-26-2010, 10:27 PM

*sigh* You know exactly who I'm talking about. The wanna-be crusaders who think that the government is out to get them, that taxes should be illegal, and that they should be the ones who administer the law. Their wanna-bes, plain and simple, and these are some of the last people that I'd want with a deadly weapon.
Self defence does not equal "administering the law". You are constantly engaging in vilifying attacks against those who choose to be able to resist encounters with the violent subhumans that exist in society. "Penis extension" and such like. I suppose that all the women in the US who carry a gun for protection simply suffer from penis envy then?

Who gets to make that decision? You? Me? I'm pretty sure that's why we have a legal/judicial system.
If I'm in an area where self defence is allowed, and I have the means, and someone breaks in to my home, or tries to assault me, then yes, I get to make that fucking decision who comes out surviving the encounter without injuries or loss of property. It should be me, and if that requires one, or for that matter one hundred criminals to lay dead afterwards, then so be it. I do not advocate going out like Charles Bronson in Death Wish, or like the Punisher, I do however advocate everything up to and including lethal force against burglars, rapists, thugs and other assorted villainy. Every dead violent criminal is a win for society, because that criminal won't commit a crime again. Ever.

BlaqueKatt

05-26-2010, 11:04 PM

Blas, you can get a taser, just not the pistol-type the police use.

Here's a helpful link: http://www.itaser.com/product_tour.html

and nothing stronger than pepper spray is legal in WI for self-defense-if she used it or got caught even having it she'd go to jail...I love this state

smileyeagle1021

05-27-2010, 04:11 AM

Every dead violent criminal is a win for society, because that criminal won't commit a crime again. Ever.

And as has been said to me by many a friend, if it comes down to you or the attacker for who has to die, it is much better to be the one that ends up facing a jury of 12 peers rather than the one carried by 6.

Hobbs

05-27-2010, 05:04 AM

and nothing stronger than pepper spray is legal in WI for self-defense-if she used it or got caught even having it she'd go to jail...I love this state
Seriously? Damn. Move to TX. You get a gun with a liquor purchase; state law.

blas87

05-27-2010, 04:28 PM

Yes Katt, I love Wisconsin too....about as much as I love Sunday nights :p

insertNameHere

05-28-2010, 06:05 AM

Blas, you can get a taser, just not the pistol-type the police use.

Here's a helpful link: http://www.itaser.com/product_tour.html

False, you can actually get the pistol type just not as bad ass. they have a shorter range but longer shock time so you can place it on the ground and RUN away. But really that depends on where you live, looking up stuff about my concealed carry I learned that tasers are illegal to own in Michigan.

and nothing stronger than pepper spray is legal in WI for self-defense-if she used it or got caught even having it she'd go to jail...I love this state

That is SO FUCKING STUPID, especially when last night I had a girl wonder into the store last night about 3am looked like hell, I thought from the mud all over her shoes she was just drunk and walking home but she responded with she was just raped and needed a black and mild, I'm guessing she was still in shock from how she was acting. I hope she did report it because she freaked and left as another male entered the store.

So? Some people need to be killed.
This statement agrees with above comment. I think our justice system is too kind sometimes.

Seriously? Damn. Move to TX. You get a gun with a liquor purchase; state law.

I love that in Texas when your neighbors house is being broken into you can EXECUTE 2 people and not go to jail. Originally I thought it was screwed up till I learned it was Illegal Aliens that got killed which makes me think the guy needs a medal. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story

Summary: It is amazing how different the states are, some you legally can't defend yourself and will go to jail longer than the criminal who tried to attack you if you do defend yourself.

While others you can walk outside and kill criminals without needing to worry.

Skelly

05-28-2010, 01:48 PM

This statement agrees with above comment. I think our justice system is too kind sometimes.
Your justice system isn't too kind. After all, plenty of states will lock you up for life if you are a big enough of a fuck up. Hell, they'll gladly lock you up for life if your partner in crime is shot to death in some states.
Over here OTOH a man was convicted today of assault that led to the death of an elderly woman. He was sentenced to a whooping 1 years and 10 months in prison, and he'll probably be out after 2/3 for good behaviour and such. OURS is too fucking kind. Guy deserves a bullet to the back of the skull.

Hobbs

05-28-2010, 03:14 PM

I love that in Texas when your neighbors house is being broken into you can EXECUTE 2 people and not go to jail. Originally I thought it was screwed up till I learned it was Illegal Aliens that got killed which makes me think the guy needs a medal. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story

THe highlighted section is so sickening, it doesn't deserve a response.

crashhelmet

05-28-2010, 05:45 PM

I love that in Texas when your neighbors house is being broken into you can EXECUTE 2 people and not go to jail. Originally I thought it was screwed up till I learned it was Illegal Aliens that got killed which makes me think the guy needs a medal. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...=mostpop_story

Do you have a source to say that they were illegal aliens? That article fails to mention their residency status. Or are you assuming that they must be illegal because they have Spanish names?

CH

smileyeagle1021

05-28-2010, 07:19 PM

THe highlighted section is so sickening, it doesn't deserve a response.

Yes it does, it deserves the response "how does a persons nation of origin change the value of their life"
I agree wholeheartedly with the right to use lethal force to defend yourself, but I don't think medals should be given out for it, and definitely don't think that the criminals nation of origin makes any difference (a life is still a life and a death is still a death, no matter what the color of skin).

insertNameHere

05-28-2010, 08:59 PM

Do you have a source to say that they were illegal aliens? That article fails to mention their residency status. Or are you assuming that they must be illegal because they have Spanish names?

CH
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315477,00.html

if you want to complain its fox news

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
its wikipedia but follow the links to the sources, im sure a few eventually pick up on the fact it was illegal aliens

I don't remember the original source I heard it from since it was a nice big topic in the headlines at the time which is about 2.5 years ago.

THe highlighted section is so sickening, it doesn't deserve a response.

My viewpoint is this, they were ILLEGALLY in this country and were stealing shit from an American citizen. Those two points make it hard for me to give a shit about the death of someone who doesn't seem to give a shit about our laws, and I'm willing to bet this wasn't the first time outside of crossing the border they did something illegal.

Hobbs

05-28-2010, 09:13 PM

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315477,00.html

if you want to complain its fox news

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy
its wikipedia but follow the links to the sources, im sure a few eventually pick up on the fact it was illegal aliens

I don't remember the original source I heard it from since it was a nice big topic in the headlines at the time which is about 2.5 years ago.

My viewpoint is this, they were ILLEGALLY in this country and were stealing shit from an American citizen. Those two points make it hard for me to give a shit about the death of someone who doesn't seem to give a shit about our laws, and I'm willing to bet this wasn't the first time outside of crossing the border they did something illegal.
I pray for those who have to suffer against such callous viewpoints. NO ONE'S LIFE is cheap.

Wingates_Hellsing

05-29-2010, 12:06 AM

I'm all for defending yourself against an intruder, but if that results in their death it should only ever be because the situation forced, not just because you felt like it. Feel free to use force to defend yourself, but only as much as is warranted (keeping in mind that threat of lethal force is not equivalent to lighting some one up).

smileyeagle1021

05-29-2010, 07:25 AM

My viewpoint is this, they were ILLEGALLY in this country and were stealing shit from an American citizen. Those two points make it hard for me to give a shit about the death of someone who doesn't seem to give a shit about our laws, and I'm willing to bet this wasn't the first time outside of crossing the border they did something illegal.

If I may be so bold, when did you (or anyone in this country) become God?
We have a legal system for a reason, I will never argue against using deadly force if it is necassary to save your life... I even support it in some cases to protect property (as a last resort). But unilaterally deciding whether or not someone should live or die is well beyond what we as mere mortals should ever be permitted to do. We have a legal system for a reason, if killing isn't absolutely necassary, let the legal system do its job. It aint perfect, far from it, but as soon as we stop trusting in it, we turn into a nation of vigilante thugs.
Put another way, killing when it isn't absolutely necassary has another name, that name is Murder.

BlaqueKatt

05-29-2010, 01:09 PM

We have a legal system for a reason, I will never argue against using deadly force if it is necessary to save your life... I even support it in some cases to protect property (as a last resort). <snip>
Put another way, killing when it isn't absolutely necessary has another name, that name is Murder.

yup I don't give a damn who you are or what "value" the stuff being stolen is-material things can be replaced(that's what insurance is for), life cannot-if the burglars had been citizens you know damn well there would be a wrongful death civil suit brought.

There is no state that administers the harshest of capitol punishment for simple burglary or theft, and it should not be condoned.

insertNameHere

05-29-2010, 06:34 PM

If I may be so bold, when did you (or anyone in this country) become God?
We have a legal system for a reason, I will never argue against using deadly force if it is necessary to save your life... I even support it in some cases to protect property (as a last resort). But unilaterally deciding whether or not someone should live or die is well beyond what we as mere mortals should ever be permitted to do. We have a legal system for a reason, if killing isn't absolutely necessary, let the legal system do its job. It aint perfect, far from it, but as soon as we stop trusting in it, we turn into a nation of vigilante thugs.
Put another way, killing when it isn't absolutely necessary has another name, that name is Murder.

I go based on if an American Citizen goes to Mexico for a vacation and they have no rights, by all means illegally coming here gives them no rights either. And well in Mexico people are jailed or killed for the simplest things.
I concede it was messed up he straight up executed them over property but I'm all for saving on government spending.