People who have no idea what racism really is....

[DrFaroohk]

Inspired by my ultra liberal friend who's in town, I just have to rant...

Not Racist: "That dude has really dark skin."

Racist: "Let's go hang that dark skinned guy!"

Not Racist: "That dude has really slanty eyes."

Racist: "LET'S GO KICK THE FUCK OUT OF THAT SLANTY EYED DUDE!"

Not Racist: Here's a personal one: I honestly can't tell the difference between "brown" people. They even joked about this on South Park. I simply don't see a huge amount of people from each region to be able to identify them. It's just a simple fact. I see a dude with slightly brown skin, he might be from israel, or he might be from mexico. Even brown-skinned actors play multiple roles. It's not racist. It'd be like calling someone racist because they can't tell the difference between someone from Montana and someone from Maine.

Racist: "I don't tolerate no brown people in my town!"

One being an observation, which I don't see as racist. Yeah, guess what. African Americans have dark skin. Chinese people have slanty eyes. White people have pale skin. It's actually true. I don't see how it can be racist. Treating someone negatively because of their race, that's racist.

Like on seinfeld - just because you find chinese women attractive doesn't mean you're racist. And if you don't find chinese women attractive, that's still not racist. We're talking about aesthetic appearances here, not the "person inside". You're making a visual judgement based upon visual clues. No matter how much someone kicks and screams about it, its simply not racist.

Ok, done ranting for a bit. Feel free to call me racist now...lol....

[guywithashovel]

In days gone by, here's something that would often happen on the CS boards.

A member would post a rant about an SC he recently encountered at work. During that rant, said member casually mentions the fact that the SC was black, Hispanic, Asian, or something else (e.g. This black guy started tearing into me over the store's policy even though there was nothing I could do about it! What a jerk!). Then, a PC enthusiast would reply with something like "I agree that he was an SC, but what does his race have to do with it? It sounds like you may have prejudged him before the encounter even happened."

That's another thing. If I'm describing a bad encounter with someone, and I happen to mention the fact that the person is black, female, Asian or whatever, it's a description, not a tacit admission of racism.

[DrFaroohk]

Exactly. I meant to include that very thing as well but forgot. It's just a description. By those people's standards, you could argue that even saying "this guy came in" would be sexist, since why does it matter he's a dude? You could say "this person came in" and now you're humanist, because why does it matter he's a person?

People get way too uptight.

It would be racist if you said "Man, this black guy came in the store...and how I hate black guys! Anyway this black guy came in - god men are so stupid -...."

[Plaidman]

In days gone by, here's something that would often happen on the CS boards.

A member would post a rant about an SC he recently encountered at work. During that rant, said member casually mentions the fact that the SC was black, Hispanic, Asian, or something else (e.g. This black guy started tearing into me over the store's policy even though there was nothing I could do about it! What a jerk!). Then, a PC enthusiast would reply with something like "I agree that he was an SC, but what does his race have to do with it? It sounds like you may have prejudged him before the encounter even happened."

That's another thing. If I'm describing a bad encounter with someone, and I happen to mention the fact that the person is black, female, Asian or whatever, it's a description, not a tacit admission of racism.

True, but this isn't like in person encounter. One may inadvertly mention race, with typing its chosen. Not saying that it means said poster is racist, but unless race is important to the story, then why are you typing the race then? It's not important. You could write that it was a blue woman that screamed at you, and the story would stay the same. Idioitcy is all around, and its not based on race. That, and if anything, by posting the race, you might be furthering the /proof/ that some members need that all race X is horrible. (We do have racist members here).

Basically, unless said race is a major or minor part of the story, there is no reason to write it.

[BlaqueKatt]

Basically, unless said race is a major or minor part of the story, there is no reason to write it.


sorry to pick on ya Plaid but aren't you in a creative writing class?

Use descriptive writing to make your readers feel your pain. (http://www.ourstressfullives.com/descriptive-writing.html)

they actually have the reasons for doing it posted there-it's to bring people closer to the actual experience.

for example:
the horse ran through the meadow and sniffed some flowers.

vs

The golden-maned horse thundered through the lush green meadow and then it stopped. It bent its neck to the green grass and sniffed the sweet smell of the colourful flowers.

[DrFaroohk]

And for those of us who key like the flash, sometimes it really is inadvertant anyway. Sure you can go back and change it, but still.

It's just part of the story.

I look at it this way: Who knows better if I'm being racist? You or me? You do? Really? You can read my thoughts, my intentions, my personal feelings? You're suddenly part of the psychic friends network? I didn't think so. Which leaves ME. The only person who really knows for sure is me. Therefore, its my word on the subject we'll be taking, unless you can pull something better out of your ass.

[Plaidman]

Ok, fine, look at this way the Dr.

Say you have made 60 threads about SCs.

In 50 of them, you have posted about a Black person doing various things.


(granted, it's an extreme example).

This can make one come to only a few conclusions.

1: You live in an area with nothing but black people
2: You only notice when a black person does something bad, and not when any other race does it.

Sure, you may claim your not a racist, but when your majority threads have nothing but saying this black person did this, (Yet nothing in the story has any bearing on said race, like him going off on you because they think your racist for example), then the above are really the only two one can conclude. The first one can make sense, but a good chunk likely wouldn't see that and jump to the second one, IE "Wow, that poster sure posts a bunch of stories on black people, haven't seen any on asian, or whites even"

On the same hand, if you want to go off on how your just /describing/ the person, how often do you really state "So this white guy came in and did this"? From what I seen from those that must describe the person's race, they only go "This person", unless it's a different then white American, in which case they are more then willing to go "This Mexican" or "This Russian".


Yeah, you may scream your not racist all you want, but when your actions dicate otherwise, people can rightfully assume that your indeed a racist.

EDIT: I type in a flash too. But I tend to skip words, not add them due to thinking far faster then I type. So I don't buy that Oh I just added that person's race that was different from mine because I type fast.

[DrFaroohk]

Or 3: I live in an area with very few black people. I don't mention white people because its a given that the person I saw was white. It'd be like saying "This human being with two eyes, two lips, a nose, hair, two ears, two arms, and two legs came in..."

But if it was "This three armed man came in and...." because that's very uncommon and it helps to flesh out the story some.

Similar to the example above, its the difference between "this human came in and was mean to me."

or

"So this black dude comes in the other day - big motherfucker, too - and starts swearing up and down that we were out of Newports - and man was he pissed - tells me he's going to jump over the counter and shank me if I don't get on the phone to the manage right now and let him know what's up."

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Even if it's not relevant, it's part of what happened. The person typing knows this so when they think of the SC, it's not those two letters that pop into mind, it's the image of a short, black, gray haired asshole who was wearing a bunny sweater while ridiculing the poster's jeans, or whatever. Almost none of those details are truly relevant, but they are part of what identifies the SC in question. If the person isn't pouring over their post to insure that it isn't offensive, chances are they'll include some or all of those details.

Also, supposing someone did post about a black person 50 out of 60 times (which is preposterously extreme) that still doesn't prove anything. Those numbers are as preposterous as many of the explanations, but those do happen. Unless you can prove that they get other SCs that they ignore or omit you've got nothing. They damn well could be working the graveyard shift in the middle of an all-black project and therefore, since all their customers are black, all the sucky ones are black too.

[Plaidman]

Or 3: I live in an area with very few black people. I don't mention white people because its a given that the person I saw was white. It'd be like saying "This human being with two eyes, two lips, a nose, hair, two ears, two arms, and two legs came in..."
"

Why is it a given? If it's the first one, it just shows even more of a racist attutide. "Man there are so little black people here, and they all do stupid things!"

America is a pretty decent mix now, only slightly more white people then black.

Saying its a given your speaking about a white person does nothing for your argument of only saying a person's race is for description. You ether say all races for that, or just mention a race when its important to story.

[Plaidman]

Even if it's not relevant, it's part of what happened. The person typing knows this so when they think of the SC, it's not those two letters that pop into mind, it's the image of a short, black, gray haired asshole who was wearing a bunny sweater while ridiculing the poster's jeans, or whatever. Almost none of those details are truly relevant, but they are part of what identifies the SC in question. If the person isn't pouring over their post to insure that it isn't offensive, chances are they'll include some or all of those details.
.

Funny how he must describe that it's a different race, but doesn't feel like describing it when it's a white person.

[Vash113]

Why is it a given? If it's the first one, it just shows even more of a racist attutide. "Man there are so little black people here, and they all do stupid things!"

America is a pretty decent mix now, only slightly more white people then black.

Saying its a given your speaking about a white person does nothing for your argument of only saying a person's race is for description. You ether say all races for that, or just mention a race when its important to story.

Why is it a given that this implies racism? I'm so sick of this ultra-sensitive nonsense and no, America is not all evenly mixed and homogenized. On the contrary, there's still a majority of Caucasians in the country, not for a whole lot longer but white people still outnumber all other races. Not to mention people aren't spread out evenly. When I was studying at UMW I was lucky if I saw a single black person on campus each day and might spy an asian way off somewhere once a week... if that. So yes, it bloody well is noteworthy if someone was not white, just like it would be relevant if someone was wearing a pink shirt in a sea of blue shirts or someone was walking around with a mowhawk at sunday service. If I mention that in a conversation does that mean I'm racist against Mowhawks? Heck no, but for some stupid reason every time a race is even mentioned it must be RACIST!

The racism card gets pulled so much these days that it hast lost a great deal of its meaning and true racism has almost completely been replaced by this hyper entitlement trash.

True racism is a bunch of people dragging an innocent guy out of his home and hanging him in a tree for having a different skin color, or burning down a church used by those of another race, racism is not being surprised when half a dozen black people walk through a neighborhood that's 99.99% white people and telling someone about it, or visa versa. You think I wouldn't get stares if I took a stroll through Chinatown?

The world is not black and white (no pun intended), everyone says something now and again that could be interpreted as racist from our ultra-sensitive modern society. Does that mean they are racist? No, no it doesn't. People have forgotten the terror of lynchings, the horror of apartheid, of segregation and replaced it with slightly hurt feelings or sensibilities.

I wonder what the civil rights leaders would have to say about the stuff getting the "racist" label today, I doubt they'd agree.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Funny how he must describe that it's a different race, but doesn't feel like describing it when it's a white person.

Because, like he said, white is the default because it's much more common than anything else. For a person of a different race to do something is comparatively anomalous, so race is then specified so as to point out that, in that case, it wasn't the default, it was something else.

That which is most common is the given, and since white people still out-number the combined minorities, white is therefore the given. Besides, the population is far from equally dispersed. It makes perfect sense in the same way as only mentioning that someone is tall or short when they're taller or shorter than the norm.

[Plaidman]

Hey, it's fine. If DrFaroohk, or any of the other people at any boards must post the person's race because they feel it's /descriptive/ writing, all I ask is they do the same for white too. As for America, it is still pretty mixed. Walk down my street, and you'd have to walk pretty long and far before you ever see just same race over and over.

Idioticy doesn't go on one race in this world. For example:


1: So this guy came in, stole a bunch of beer and ran out. While he was running out, he got hit by a car and went flying, beer spilling from his hands and drenching a bunch of near by walkers.

2: So this black guy came in, stole a bunch of beer and ran out. While he was running out, he got hit by a car and went flying, beer spilling from his hands and drenching a bunch of near by walkers.

3: So this asian guy came in, stole a bunch of beer and ran out. While he was running out, he got hit by a car and went flying, beer spilling from his hands and drenching a bunch of near by walkers.

4: So this white guy came in, stole a bunch of beer and ran out. While he was running out, he got hit by a car and went flying, beer spilling from his hands and drenching a bunch of near by walkers.


Now the above is a true story. Which one is it? Does it matter? Saying the race did NOTHING for the story, other then to paint some image in your head. You want to have a dream, and imangation? Then THINK the fucking race up yourself. Half the time when I read the stories, I think of it as a person that is green, or purple just for the laughs, because race shouldn't have anything to do with a story about a guy getting hit by a car. A person buying any menthol cigs shouldn't have a race name attached to it, but I bet ya fifty bucks if you changed menthol to newports, a huge chunk would instantly jump to the person being black, even though it was a white person. You want to scream that your not racist, then you really shouldn't care what the race is that is in the story, be it you reading it, or writing it.

[Hobbs]

Actually, I always get quite offended when someone asks me if I'm Mexican. I politely inform them that, "No, I'm American."

Also, when I was hanging with my gf's family at her b-day party, her aunt asked me, "What kind of Hispanic are you?" then added the ubiquitous, "Oh, I'm not racist, I love your people's food/tacos/etc." I really didn't know how to respond to that. It was my first time meeting her family, so I perhaps was more polite than I should have.

I get offended at being called "Mexican" because my family, for more than a century, has served in the Armed Forces of the United States of America. When people ask me why I don't consider myself Mexican, I reply, "Let me put it to you this way, if Mexico gets invaded, I don't give a damn."

[Wingates_Hellsing]

No one ever said that they cared about what the race was, merely that the more details the better.

Some of us value knowing as much about what really did happen and who it happened to over potential daydreams. Race certainly shouldn't factor into right or wrong, innocent or guilty, but it is a part of what you look like, what your experiences are and, by extension, who you are. It's a detail, maybe not on overly important one, but a detail nonetheless.

[Plaidman]

No one ever said that they cared about what the race was, merely that the more details the better.

Some of us value knowing as much about what really did happen and who it happened to over potential daydreams. Race certainly shouldn't factor into right or wrong, innocent or guilty, but it is a part of what you look like, what your experiences are and, by extension, who you are. It's a detail, maybe not on overly important one, but a detail nonetheless.

And what does one's race have to deal with if their innocent or guilty in the story? If anything, it would pardon the word, but color one's opinions. If someone has had nothing but bad experences with said race, or raised to hate said race, then saying the below will have two different opinions:


1: So yesterday I was walking down the street. I saw someone being mugged, and I raced to help them. I got the mugger off and got a medal. Turned out the person I saved was also a person of money, and gave me a big check!

Now, the above would give cheers and support and woo hoos from several.

2: So yesterday I was walking down the street. I saw a black guy being mugged, and I raced to help them. I got the mugger off and got a medal. Turned out the black person I saved was also a person fo money, and gave me a big check!


Now some will respond of being a hero still, but I betcha that people that would have been oh for it above, would change their opinions. They may not post it, but they will think it, or will post it, and some opinions may be
"How do you know he was being mugged? he might have tried to steal that guy's wallet? You really shouldn't jump in without knowing what's going on"

All that, from one word of someone's race.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

So we should omit details no matter how truthful because some jackass might interpret them incorrectly?

I'm not responsible for the bigotry of others. Even so, the solution to the problem is not to stick my head in the sand and pretend that there's no such thing as race.

P.S. Also race would be an important factor in that story because the mugger (if they were white as implied by lack of specification) could be charged with a race crime and face more serious charges if arrested.

[Plaidman]

So we should omit details no matter how truthful because some jackass might interpret them incorrectly?

I'm not responsible for the bigotry of others. Even so, the solution to the problem is not to stick my head in the sand and pretend that there's no such thing as race.

P.S. Also race would be an important factor in that story because the mugger (if they were white as implied by lack of specification) could be charged with a race crime and face more serious charges if arrested.

Indeed. After all, no such thing as person own race attacking another race. Or that a mugger is going after someone strictly for t heir race and not their money.

[BlaqueKatt]

I think of it as a person that is green, or purple just for the laughs, because race shouldn't have anything to do with a story about a guy getting hit by a car.

just for my own amusement

invoke strangely colored people (http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/03/invoke-strangely-colored-people.html)

"The invocation of purple, blue, green, or other alien people is offensive for many reasons, including but not limited to the fact that it's completely trivializing, turns a serious and painful topic into a joke, and compares people of color to fictional aliens."

[Plaidman]

Intresting article Blaqukatt.


On that note: What racism has anyone here dealt with anyway first hand?

Biggest ones I've dealt with was my grandpa, who pretty much declared he kill me or anyone in our family if they date a Japanese girl. Or any asian really, (except Phillipines were ok. I never knew why). He was a great man in alot of ways, but he had alot of hatred towards Japanese.

I've had some calls from my little brother and/or sister, about how some store owner would stare at them, but none of their friends, my little sister got kicked out of the store when she admited she had no money. (She was with her friend that was shopping).

My uncle was one of the worst. Always putting down all races, yet his best friend was Black. (I LOVED that dude! Only adult that ever gave me presents and would talk to me at my age).


My beef with Dr though, is his claims of using color only to describe race, but will not put up a description for white people. His defense of you should just know that I'm talking about white unless I say otherwise holds no beef. Not everyone lives in America. Alot of people live in other countries, where dominate race is Asian, or Blacks, or Mexican, or any other race. Not all people have a location under their tags. He might live in southern America. He might live in Hawaii. He lives in USA, and judging from the fact that he claims he is in a white area where only blacks commit crime, then it must be a Southern State.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Now you're really putting words into Dr F's mouth. Nowhere did he say that only blacks commit crimes in his area, that was your assumption based on practically nothing.

Furthermore, it's generally accepted that when someone speaks it's going to be within their frame of reference and for him and many other people that frame of reference is that whites make up the majority of the people you encounter and any one minority is, compared to all other ethnicity, an anomaly. It works the same way with anything else as well because people, in order to make their communications more efficient, identify a given and only specify when the situation is outside of it.

Further still I honestly couldn't give a crap whether or not you've encountered racist people, most people do (One of my uncles, one of my aunts, as well as others) but I'm not responsible for their thoughts or conclusions. If I were to say "I ran into this Buddhist guy the other day when I was out walking and he politely informed me that my keys were about to fall out of my pocket"* I'm NOT responsible for any fundie christian or what have you that decides to conclude that the man was an asshole despite his actions.

Why should I be responsible for the jackass conclusions of racists, whatever the color of their skin?

*this actually happened just a few hours ago when I was on my daily hour-long walk.

[Plaidman]

Now you're really putting words into Dr F's mouth. Nowhere did he say that only blacks commit crimes in his area, that was your assumption based on practically nothing.
.

Really?

Or 3: I live in an area with very few black people. I don't mention white people because its a given that the person I saw was white. It'd be like saying "This human being with two eyes, two lips, a nose, hair, two ears, two arms, and two legs came in..."

But if it was "This three armed man came in and...." because that's very uncommon and it helps to flesh out the story some.

Similar to the example above, its the difference between "this human came in and was mean to me."

or

"So this black dude comes in the other day - big motherfucker, too - and starts swearing up and down that we were out of Newports - and man was he pissed - tells me he's going to jump over the counter and shank me if I don't get on the phone to the manage right now and let him know what's up."



He states that there are only a few black people, but he notices that they are all the ones causing crime, yet never posts about white people. Hm.




Further still I honestly couldn't give a crap whether or not you've encountered racist people, most people do (One of my uncles, one of my aunts, as well as others) but I'm not responsible for their thoughts or conclusions. If I were to say "I ran into this Buddhist guy the other day when I was out walking and he politely informed me that my keys were about to fall out of my pocket"* I'm NOT responsible for any fundie christian or what have you that decides to conclude that the man was an asshole despite his actions.
Why would I think he is an asshole for telling you your keys are out? A random guy doing a good act. The fact he was Buddist has no part in that. He could be a Satanist. He could eat childrens souls, and it wouldn't have change the fact he told your keys were about to fall out.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Seriously, did you even read that quote you posted of Dr F? He says there aren't many black people where he lives, but nowhere does he say anything about all the criminals being black. That he posted a FICTIONAL EXAMPLE as a juxtaposition between not mentioning race and mentioning race (we seem to be using black for the purposes of this thread) IS FICTIONAL, how hard is that to understand?

Oh and remember your example, about helping a guy getting mugged. No sane person blames someone who you determined to be the one getting mugged to actually be a secret mugger anymore than someone being polite to me secretly being an asshole. Thing is, the people both of us are talking about aren't sane, that's why they say what they say and do what they do.

Again, why should I be responsible for their stupid, jackass conclusions?

[Plaidman]

I used that because he feels the need to write that this black person did X. He cannot just say Person did this. He must add their race. But not write white. You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I used that because he feels the need to write that this black person did X. He cannot just say Person did this. He must add their race. But not write white. You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

A few corrections for you:

1) wants to I think would fit better.
2) As I said, if white is taken as part of the standard of which we or at least he operates, to not specify is to default to that standard. Therefore, not specifying is exactly the same as actually saying "white". The same goes for tall/short/normal in that you only specify the comparatively anomalous situations because 'normal' is the standard. Therefore, I'm being truthful in that I want the details, it's just that because he doesn't have to say white for me to get the detail of white, he leaves it out in the same way as he would leave out normal. I'm getting the details, we're both saving a little time, everyone wins.
3) For people who are white and mostly interact with white people, their mental image of 'human' is probably white unless otherwise specified. This goes the same for every other race as well.

[muses_nightmare]

You say I should just assume when he doesn't mention race that it must be white, but you go on to say you need details? That is just really, well, not being truthful. You need details when it isn't a white person. That may not be racist, but is sure can seem like a racist act.

I've noticed that people will mention the race of someone who is not of their own race, and it doesn't just apply to "white" people. I don't think it's intentional, nor that it is racist. Not everything that has to to with mentioning race is racist like you seem to be assuming. If someone adds a detail like skin colour in, but is not focusing the story on said detail why does it matter? Why are you putting more importance than the original person did?

And to the OP:

I honestly can't tell the difference between "brown" people.

I have this problem with Asian people, with the exception of Filipinos (Though honestly I've mistake some of them for First Nations). I don't think that's racist.

And who you find physically attractive shouldn't have anything to do with whether you're racist or not.

[Jack]

sorry to pick on ya Plaid but aren't you in a creative writing class?

Use descriptive writing to make your readers feel your pain. (http://www.ourstressfullives.com/descriptive-writing.html)

they actually have the reasons for doing it posted there-it's to bring people closer to the actual experience.

for example:
the horse ran through the meadow and sniffed some flowers.

vs

The golden-maned horse thundered through the lush green meadow and then it stopped. It bent its neck to the green grass and sniffed the sweet smell of the colourful flowers.

Late quote, but this exactly. On CS we write stories, not affidavits. We don't need to stick entirely to bare facts, which, after all, would make the whole thing a lot less interesting.

[smileyeagle1021]

I've noticed that people will mention the race of someone who is not of their own race, and it doesn't just apply to "white" people. I don't think it's intentional, nor that it is racist.
-snip-
And who you find physically attractive shouldn't have anything to do with whether you're racist or not.

I have noticed that too, and as to the idea of mentioning it because it is the non-default, I can completely understand that... in my lobby at the hotel right now is 12 people, only one is not of Anglican decent, and that's an employee... if a black/mexican/asian/whatever person comes in out of nowhere and bitches about a pothole in the parking lot, yeah, the fact that he is different than everyone else in the lobby will stand out and it has nothing to do with race or racism, just being different. Likewise, if everyone in the lobby is between 5'4 and 5'9 and all the sudden someone who is 6'2 comes in, yeah, I'm going to notice that they are one tall ass mofo. Conversly, same height for all the guests in the lobby and someone who is only 5'1 comes in, the fact that they are shorter than everyone else will be noticable. I'd fully expect if my lobby had 12 people in it and they were all asain and a white guy came in and bitched that I'd notice.

As to the second part, about physical attraction. The people I find attractive and Southest Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Tai, Philipino, etc), Eastern European (Russian, Slavic, etc), Southern European (Spanish, Italian, Greek), and certain Latin guys. Black guys, Middle Eastern, Indian, and multiple other groups just don't do anything for me. That in no way means I think they are inferior or wouldn't trust them to do just as good of a job as anyone in the groups I find physically attractive, or wouldn't be willing to be friends with them assuming we had common interests... I just wouldn't want to see them naked...

[Fryk]

... in my lobby at the hotel right now is 12 people, only one is not of Anglican decent, and that's an employee...

So almost everyone in your lobby is from the Church of England?

Did you ask them if they want tea and cake or death?

[draggar]

Before posting I decided to look upo the actual definition of "racism" and this is what I found:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism


–noun
1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

n.
1.The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.

2.Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

racism definition

The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others and therefore have a right to dominate them. In the United States, racism, particularly by whites against blacks, has created profound racial tension and conflict in virtually all aspects of American society. Until the breakthroughs achieved by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s, white domination over blacks was institutionalized and supported in all branches and levels of government, by denying blacks their civil rights and opportunities to participate in political, economic, and social communities.


So "racism" itself means something along the lines of acting negatively towards someone based on the color of their skin. So it's not racist if I act positively?

If I find Asian women more attractive than black women - then this is racist towars black women but not Asian women (considering "less attractive" could be considered a negative though)? Because of this, I would be less likely to date a black woman (now my actions are based on the color of their skin, too!). Technically, according to the definition that is racism.

Sounds a bit one sided to me.

Another issue is that some are taking this to an extreme. When a local paper posts an article about a crime on their website if the suspect is white or Latin American, they'll say it. They rarely mention if the suspect is black - even if their picture is in the article.

[Plaidman]

Another issue is that some are taking this to an extreme. When a local paper posts an article about a crime on their website if the suspect is white or Latin American, they'll say it. They rarely mention if the suspect is black - even if their picture is in the article.


Well according to some above, it just should be implied that they are, because they only say different race when its different and not when it's used to describe everyday stuff. Since most papers have many articles on people of different race, and typically black people then they just doing what people above do. Not describe white because its implied its white, and to a paper, it should be implied it's black because they write alot of crime stories of black people.

[draggar]

Well according to some above, it just should be implied that they are, because they only say different race when its different and not when it's used to describe everyday stuff. Since most papers have many articles on people of different race, and typically black people then they just doing what people above do. Not describe white because its implied its white, and to a paper, it should be implied it's black because they write alot of crime stories of black people.

When describing a suspect in a crime it is rather important to note if they're black, white, Asian, Latin American, Middle Eastern, etc.

When I call the police about a suspicious person they ask "black, white, or Latino". Its a description and one of the more noticable charateristics.

[jackfaire]

Then, a PC enthusiast would reply with something like "I agree that he was an SC, but what does his race have to do with it? It sounds like you may have prejudged him before the encounter even happened."

That's another thing. If I'm describing a bad encounter with someone, and I happen to mention the fact that the person is black, female, Asian or whatever, it's a description, not a tacit admission of racism.

See online it's harder to tell but I know closeted racist people who if I say, "God the neighbor won't leave me alone" will respond with a sneer, "Was it the Mexican".

In real life this is one of the best indicators of someone's predjudice unfortunatly online it's harder to tell if it is just a descriptor like, "This blue eyed guy was bothering me" or "this SC with red fingernails."

I don't assume the person was white if someone doesn't mention their race no more than I assume gender. I only picture the person using details supplied me everything else is left blank.

[smileyeagle1021]

So almost everyone in your lobby is from the Church of England?

Did you ask them if they want tea and cake or death?

Perhaps that wasn't the best way of phrasing it, I guess I should use the more technical term Anglo-Saxon descent.

[Plaidman]

When describing a suspect in a crime it is rather important to note if they're black, white, Asian, Latin American, Middle Eastern, etc.

When I call the police about a suspicious person they ask "black, white, or Latino". Its a description and one of the more noticable charateristics.

We wer talking about people who just have to post the person's race when it comes to posting stories, when it has nothing to do with the story.


if you again, want to rant on about how your just describing it, then explain why you never explain what else they look like. What color are there eyes? What the hairstyle? What clothes do they wear? How age are they? Do they have wrinkles? Zits? Beards? No Beards? Are they growing boobs? Facial Scars? People don't add those, because they aren't important to the story, just like a person's race.

[Rebel]

I will admit that when I'm reading a story, any story, and no-one describes what the character looks like, I immediately picture them as being Caucasian with blue eyes and blonde or brown hair.
Why?
Because that's what everyone in my family looks like.

Peoples world views are formed by those that are closest to them when they're growing up. I didn't even see anyone with dark skin until I was a lot older, and that was my aunty Chandra. And this wasn't because my family was racist and were trying to keep us separate from anyone different, it just happened that the street we lived on was predominantly white, and as a young child, your home and your street is all you know. As I grew and went to school, my world view grew, but that doesn't cancel out your first impressions as a child.

When I write stories, I will write descriptions of the people involved. Saying that the person was Asian is just as valid a description as saying that the person was really tall, really short, fat, thin, etc. It's different from what my default setting is, or is unusual for the location where the incident occurred. It allows people to envision the story in it's original context. Unless I'm using racial slurs, I don't agree that it's racist.

To say that I'm racist for describing a persons race or skin colour in a story, is like calling me a Xenoglossophobic for thinking and writing in English.

[Fryk]

Perhaps that wasn't the best way of phrasing it, I guess I should use the more technical term Anglo-Saxon descent.

So they're WASPS. Do we still call them that?

[guywithashovel]

if you again, want to rant on about how your just describing it, then explain why you never explain what else they look like. What color are there eyes? What the hairstyle? What clothes do they wear? How age are they? Do they have wrinkles? Zits? Beards? No Beards? Are they growing boobs? Facial Scars? People don't add those, because they aren't important to the story, just like a person's race.

In the past when I used to post SC stories on CS (when I still worked retail), I would sometimes give indications of what the customers looked like aside from race or gender. I would often give some indication of the person's age, but that shouldn't be taken as a prejudice against any certain age group.

Race and sex are usually the first things we notice about people when we first interact with them. I don't see why it's often taken as a tacit admission of racism to mention that an SC was Mexican, black or anything else.

[Plaidman]

Mark my words, I never said it was racism, just implied racism if all you do is talk about this race over all other races.

I don't see the point in mention race at all. It does nothing when it comes to these stories, as their race has very little to nothing to do with how they act.

[jackfaire]

Race and sex are usually the first things we notice about people when we first interact with them. I

Not me I think honestly colors, hair, eyes, and skin are the last things I notice.

[DrFaroohk]

Mark my words, I never said it was racism, just implied racism if all you do is talk about this race over all other races.

I don't see the point in mention race at all. It does nothing when it comes to these stories, as their race has very little to nothing to do with how they act.

Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the story, but is it really necessary to omit it just because someone might possibly be slightly offended at the mention of awful words like "black guy" or "mexican"?

and of course we're straying from the main point, which was that it's just plain not racism. Maybe I don't need to mention that this dude at work I talk to sometimes is a big fucking black dude, which he is, but I'm not like "ewwww a black guy" it's just "Hey, this is moe, and he's extremely large, he's funny, and yeah, he's black."

And there's nothing at all wrong with that. In fact, in telling a story and saying "man, this puerto rican dude came in and was a total dick!", when someone gets all upset and cries racism, that person is the one giving the word the label and with it the power to hurt people's feelings and be racist. The word was fine until the so-called anti-racist dude made it racist.

[Plaidman]

It isn't racism. It just no real point to it when it comes to stories online, or even in person. Why is their skin color a important part?

Your friend Moe?

"My pal Moe is fuuuuuuunny! He'd make ya cough milk out of your nose. Just don't spit any on him, he's like ten feet talk and could crush ya".


See? Your exact description, just no skin color.

Skin color on a person isn't vital.

You want to get away with racism and all that? One minor stepping stone is to take away the fucking skin color, and treat a a person like a person.

Hell, even the size isn't that important ether! Or their clothes.

Their personality is what makes a person a person, not their size, not there clothes, not their family (though that may help form their personality), nothing on the outside should ever be used to describe someone.

I hate that with a passion. Everyone describes people by what they look like rather then what they are. It's what maikes the world so damn divided, because you put their preconvived feelings ahead.

People call me crosseyed. Thus I must be retarded.

I don't wear fancy clothes, thus I must be poor.

I don't cut my hair often, thus I must be a hippy.


Yeah, it may not be racism, but if you put that skin color, you still putting someone subconensously into a different catogry, for better or for worst on efveryone. It's subconcesious, not a choice.

Putting someone's skin color is not a detail. It's not important, (Unless your trying to describe somone to a police that this guy did this)

But introducing your friends? I've never once told any of my friends that this person is this skin color. I tell people what they did or who they are. People see their skin color when they meet in person eventally.

People's outsides looks and physically body is nothing. All that counts is the inside.

[Boozy]

Mark my words, I never said it was racism, just implied racism if all you do is talk about this race over all other races.

I know exactly what you mean.

Discussing an issue like this is difficult without specific examples. Mentioning race is not always racist, but when it is racism, you know it is. There's just something about the mention of race that seems odd sometimes, you know?

More specifically, there have been times when I've seen race get mentioned in situations that don't warrant it in any way, and coming from a person who has never made any effort to add description to their writing or set the scene in any way.

When someone says "It was a beautiful sunny day and I was polishing the windows at the front of the store when I see a tall black man get out of his Honda Civic and walk towards the door"...that's clearly not racism. That's descriptive writing. They're describing the weather, their activity, the guy's car -- and his race.

What has always struck me as racist is the mention of race when no other decription is offered, and the behaviour of the minority in question is unpleasant.

[muses_nightmare]

Skin color on a person isn't vital.

Despite what you may think, it is a pretty obvious detail about someone's appearance. Sometimes people like to describe the people they're talking about, omitting skin colour intentionally is stupid, especially if you're trying to write something interesting. It comes up. That being said, when I'm talking about my friends to people who don't know them I will occasionally mention race if it comes up (like when I say English isn't their first language and the person I'm talking to asks what language is their first), doesn't make me racist.

Separating people by skin colour isn't right and is racism, but simply describing someone and including their skin colour is not racist in the slightest. It is one of their distinguishing characteristics, just like if I'm describing someone with red hair or what have you. It's an observation, and for the most part it's not an important part of the story, just an added detail. Being overly sensitive does nothing.

[DrFaroohk]

Being overly sensitive does nothing.

Except, as I said, actually empower those who actually are racist.

To me physical appearance is important because its how i tell people apart.

"hey, you know that guy who's really nice, and he's funny, and he's smart, but he's also a little full of himself?"

That's about six hundred different people I know.

"Hey, you know that guy who's black, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Oh yeah that guy!


I still say its only racism if its really, really negative. Just mentioning a person's race isn't racist. Discriminating is racist. Like "Aw someone stole your car? He must have been Chinese!" That's racist.

Just because someone writes something down doesn't make it true, anyway. I know a hundred people who would jump on me and write down "That's racist!" Why? Because YOU said it is? You can say whatever the fuck you want, it's still not racist. And back to my previous argument, the only person, the ONLY FUCKING PERSON who really knows if I'm being racist is ME. Everyone else can suck it.

An example to prove this point: Let's say you happen across me hanging some brown skinned dude from a tree. You might think "OMG He's racist he's lynching that guy!" That's what you assume, because you saw a classic example of racism.

What you didn't know, and can't know because you can't read my mind, is that he just recently stole my wallet and ran up a ginormous bill on my credit card, and when I caught up to him, he refused to pay up. It has nothing to do with his race.

[Red Panda]

Mentioning race when it has nothing to do with anything makes a point that race is an important factor even if it isn't. You can describe a person without giving their race.

Which is a better description

A: The guy with a three foot afro, five gold teeth, aviator sunglasses, weighs about 400 pounds always wears sweat pants and has a parrot on his shoulder

or

B: The black guy.


Besides, physical description is rarely important on CS at least. How does writing

"This black guy came in and tried to scam me" make a better story then "This guy came in and tried to scam me" other then reaffirming that those crazy blacks are always trying to scam people.

[jackfaire]

To me physical appearance is important because its how i tell people apart.

"hey, you know that guy who's really nice, and he's funny, and he's smart, but he's also a little full of himself?"

That's about six hundred different people I know.

"Hey, you know that guy who's black, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Oh yeah that guy!


But if he were white would you have said, "Hey, you know that guy whose white, tall, muscular, and has those two big ass nose rings?"

Unless you know a lot of tall, muscular guys with two big ass nose rings which is pretty specific I don't see how his skin color adds to the description.

No I am not saying it is racist I think it is more indicative of an "us" or "them" mentality. One that I don't really have personally so I don't tend to describe people by their ancestry. I go for unique descriptors to them skin color is no more a unique descriptor than eye color or hair color also neither of which I use unless I have described him as "the guy with the gorgeous eyes" in the past.

Tall is also subjective and only useful if the person your speaking with knows you. If your a person that is 6'3 then tall may mean 7'. I have a friend that is 5'2 and would describe me as tall, I am 5'7, but 6' friends that would describe me as short.

[muses_nightmare]

But if you have to dance around the point of that part of a description, it makes a bigger deal about skin colour than it actually is. I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that it is in fact a distinguishing characteristic, and when describing someone it can and does comeup. We aren't colourblind , nor should we be. We shouldn't treat people differently because of their colour, but ignoring it also does more harm than good.

For example if describing a person if I said :

Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes.

That could be anyone, is that a good description? Does this person care what race they are? Will they be offended if you describe them as such?

Like "Aw someone stole your car? He must have been Chinese!" That's racist.

Yeah well of course it is, I never said it wasn't.

[Plaidman]

how does it do more harm?


Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes?

If person doesn't know, then add more

"He always jokes about how his wife beats him every night when he doesn't come home with the lottery?"

"He drives the Red mercedes?"

etc etc.

We aren't colorblind. Agreed. But when you label person solely by race as the only way to describe them is just stupid.

For your friends, do you introduce them as "This is Black guy Alex! He Black! The other guy is Richard! He's the Asian! Finally there is Randal, he's is the Russsian!"

[jackfaire]

But if you have to dance around the point of that part of a description, it makes a bigger deal about skin colour than it actually is. IFor example if describing a person if I said :

Oh the tall, muscular guy with brown hair and brown eyes.
.

I am not saying someone should dance around the fact personally I am saying the fact isn't very descriptive visual cues such as skin color, hair color, eye color typically have me looking at the person scratching my head until they give me unique features of the person, personality traits, how they walk, accent etc so many things that actually tell me about the person.

If someone telling you they are talking about the tall black guy with brown hair and brown eyes fills you in on who they are talking about cool.

To me that is the equivilant of asking me if i remmber that movie with that one guy.

Very few situations would I think to put the visual part first those would come last after all the unique features were used up and they still didn't know who I am talking about.

[smileyeagle1021]

For your friends, do you introduce them as "This is Black guy Alex! He Black! The other guy is Richard! He's the Asian! Finally there is Randal, he's is the Russsian!"

No, but I might describe a friend.
Me: hey, do you know Ben?
Other person: Ben... umm, Ben, who's Ben?
Me: He's tall, black, has short hair, used to be my roommate, you should have met him.
Other person: Oh, yeah, I remember Ben.

Now, how is that racist... I have had many roommates, a few who were tall with short hair... bringing in skin color is just one of many traits we can use to describe someone... yeah I could have said "tall, has short black hair, green eyes, slightly bucked teeth, and slightly larger than average feet." But why say that much detail to differentiate him when I know that the person who I'm talking to knows I've only had one tall, black, with short haired roommate?

[muses_nightmare]

Well just describing their race and basic features maybe isn't enough sure, but sometimes that's all you really have to go on. And when it is it's a pretty big descriptor of that person. It's never really the first thing I use to describe someone, but oftentimes it's in there.

[Plaidman]

Now, how is that racist...

Again, I never called anyone racist, just racist tendencies if they just go only by race.

[Red Panda]

Theres a big differance between giving a detailed description where race is important and telling a story where race has absolutly not bearing on the story.

A crazy guy walked into the store

A crazy black guy walked into the store


What does the word black add other then making sure everybody knows that black people act like this

[smileyeagle1021]

Plaid, I also never said that you were calling it racist, but I've seen many people take your argument to the extreme and said that any mention of race is racist... that we should try to not even notice it. I'm sorry, noticing race is not a bad thing, quite the contrary, it is what makes us different that makes us special...

[smileyeagle1021]

A crazy guy walked into the store

A crazy black guy walked into the store


What does the word black add other then making sure everybody knows that black people act like this

The way that's phrased, nothing.
But instead if it's phrased like.
This crazy huge black guy, seriously he was bigger than Michael Clarke Duncan except meaner than hell, walked into the store and started shouting at me, spittle flying everywhere.

That tells a much better story than "a crazy guy walked into the store"
*yawn*
There is nothing racist about describing someone and as in the above example, makes for a much more vivid mental image of what happened.

[Red Panda]

Why can't you leave the word black out of that sentence? It still is the same without bringing in race.

Would you say the same sentence with white guy instead of black?

[Plaidman]

I want to remark that I'm likely taking this too far.

After a life time of people judging me on what I look like versus who I am, I take it too far.

After hearing my brother and or sister crying on the phone how someone was following them around the store and not their friend, or how some people called them niggers, even though they're only half black, I take it to defense.

Same with my cousins of one aunt, who are all half mexican. They get yelled and insulted too, because they don't speak spanish, or various other insults.

Or my mom's ex who was very racist, with the idea of bonding with me with his first apperence was telling me a very harsh racist joke that wasn't even funny. Something about a black kid that gets white paint on him, and him yelling at black people saying he only been white for a few minutes and already hates blacks. I hated him from the start because it was constant.


So I'm sorry If I'm sounding unmovable. I hate it period, when people are simply judging, even labling someone just on HOW they look, and not their true selves.

Even a description of someone, if it isn't important in the context, just isn't worth it.

No-one should judge, or even describe someone based on what they look like. We need to get it out of our heads that our outside is just a shell, and by keeping the whole describing people based on what they look like in unimportant context, just furthers the whole Outside apperence is judged first.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

By that sentiment we should also never describe people's hair, clothes, or weight.

None of those may be directly related to the events described, but as Smiley pointed out, their inclusion makes for a much more vivid mental image. Some people, myself included, appreciate those details because we like to have the best possible mental image. Without that the whole thing just seems empty. I know on an intellectual level what happened, but I'd prefer to see it. To do that I need every detail I can get my hands on. It just so happens that I'm a visual person, sue me.

It sounds like you've experienced a lot of shit because people unreasonably judge you and others based on skin color alone. But something everyone has to come to terms with is that they do look a certain way, and that's going to factor into people's first impressions and mental images.

The assholes are going to be assholes whether I choose to include whatever detail their obsessed over or not. Pardon me if I refuse to let their jackassery get in the way of suitably vivid imagery.

[jackfaire]

By that sentiment we should also never describe people's hair, clothes, or weight..

Necessary when descrbing:

The person your trying to hook your friend up with

The person who committed a crime to the cops

The person your mocking or admiring for their hair, clothes, or weight

Writing a short story or a book where your setting a scene.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Skin color also needed for the first two, the third if they try to pull the race card, and the fourth as part of setting the scene.

[jackfaire]

Skin color also needed for the first two, the third if they try to pull the race card, and the fourth as part of setting the scene.

I agree. It just seems like most people are using those attributes when descirbing a person you already know in which case for me clothing or hair style is helpful but none of the others are.

[smileyeagle1021]

Would you say the same sentence with white guy instead of black?

Why not...
This crazy guy, holy shit I've never seen a white guy that big or angry, rushed into the store and just started in on a rage, yelling and shouting, spittle going everywhere.

No, it's not the same sentence, but it is a sentence that could be used.

[Boozy]

Why not...
This crazy guy, holy shit I've never seen a white guy that big or angry, rushed into the store and just started in on a rage, yelling and shouting, spittle going everywhere.


That's a million times more racist-sounding than your original sentence.

This one implies that being "big and angry" is not tradtionally a "white" behaviour.

[DrFaroohk]

But it doesn't. It merely states that he's never seen a white person be that big or angry. If he meant that white people typically aren't big and angry, he would have said "I've never seen a white guy that big or angry, because white guys are never big and angry!"

People put way too much meaning into shit.

[smileyeagle1021]

That's a million times more racist-sounding than your original sentence.

This one implies that being "big and angry" is not tradtionally a "white" behaviour.

It could also be read that it's not a traditional behavior of any race, and of white people I've seen he was the biggest and angriest...