This is a debating site, by the way...

[Ree]

I really wonder about people who come to a debate site and then take personal offense when some one debates them, because they don't really know how to debate.

They see it as just a forum for self expression and get all slighted when they are called on it.

I'm sorry, but there's no "free pass" around here for posting one's views unchallenged.

If you feel strongly enough about it, then it's up to you to provide the proof of your argument and attempt to negate the other person's argument.

Just because you make a convincing argument, there is nothing in the rules that says a member has to concede to you, and if they don't, that is not personally attacking.

Now, I realize some of the problem can be related to the fact that we do refer people here from CS when they post a controversial topic over there.
We don't always take into account that the person may not have strong debating skills when we are diverting them to fratching, but it's a bit of a price we pay, I guess, to keep the bickering off CS.

We do allow for that, though, to a certain degree, I think, but every once in a while, there is an issue with someone seeing normal debate as a personal attack.

I think Boozy explained things very well in this thread. (http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?p=48120#post48120)

Our job as moderators is to step in if a member is genuinely obnoxious and resorts to obvious personal attacks or uses wording that is actually insulting.

To use an analogy, we will not step into the sandbox and start slapping hands just because someone doesn't have the ability to fling the sand as quickly and as accurately.

We are of the opinion that, if you're stepping into the box, then be prepared to get a bit dirty and learn to deflect it back to the other person.
If you can't do that, then step out of the box, please, and take it as a lesson learned.
On the other hand, if someone decides to toss a bit of mud, then we will jump all over that person and remove them from the box for playing dirty and messing up the box for everybody else.

Does that make sense?

[Plaidman]

Yeah it does.


I'm just lousy at expressing my views. My brain works to randomy to ever be coherient.

[Ree]

Ah, but you can accept debate for what it is, and don't mistake it for personal attacks, from what I've seen, Plaid.

[Plaidman]

Sometimes.... XD

Other times I just get very angry at some posters for their views.

Too strongheaded to understand why they have those views.

[blas87]

My only issue is that sometimes people post here to vent because it isn't appropriate for CS (usually the reason) and they may not necessarily be looking for hugs and encouragement, but just need to get something off of their chest, and someone always has to come along and challenge them or nitpick at their post.

I understand it's a debate site. I have shown some weaknesses and stepped back and taken breaks (although for different reasons), but sometimes I feel some members treat this site as more of a nitpick or disagree just to disagree place, which defeats the purpose of a decent debate.

[the_std]

just need to get something off of their chest, and someone always has to come along and challenge them or nitpick at their post.

[snip]

but sometimes I feel some members treat this site as more of a nitpick or disagree just to disagree place, which defeats the purpose of a decent debate.

This site is not here for people to just 'get things off their chest' without being challenged. Nitpicking is a very valid debate tactic, as even minor flaws in an argument can bring the whole thing toppling down. To be quite frank, if you're not strong enough to either admit you were wrong on a certain point or back out of it entirely, you shouldn't be posting on this site. If you know that it's a debate site, you shouldn't be upset with people here using debate tactics in the conversations/arguments. That's not to say that I encourage people to be mean, but you really ought to know what you're getting into posting here. Especially people who have been around this site for a significant length of time.

[Plaidman]

This site is not here for people to just 'get things off their chest' without being challenged. Nitpicking is a very valid debate tactic, as even minor flaws in an argument can bring the whole thing toppling down. To be quite frank, if you're not strong enough to either admit you were wrong on a certain point or back out of it entirely, you shouldn't be posting on this site. If you know that it's a debate site, you shouldn't be upset with people here using debate tactics in the conversations/arguments. That's not to say that I encourage people to be mean, but you really ought to know what you're getting into posting here. Especially people who have been around this site for a significant length of time.

Just the thing. Some people post at CS just to vent. The thread is closed and told to go to fratching. So .... yeah. They can't vent at cs, have to post here but they suck at debate and get attacked by several people. Just saying.

[Rapscallion]

The venting is often of a political nature, or religious, or something that we cannot safely have there - such as those will cause member to attack member.

However, those sort of links or topics are often posted with the intention of making a point about something. If you're making a point, you should be willing to back it up. If you cannot back it up, is it worth making?

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

My only issue is that sometimes people post here to vent because it isn't appropriate for CS (usually the reason) and they may not necessarily be looking for hugs and encouragement, but just need to get something off of their chest, and someone always has to come along and challenge them or nitpick at their post.

I feel like that sums up the Things I Hate section. I go there to bitch about stuff where I'll hear a lot of "that's insensitive" and crap like that. That's why I love Fratching.

[blas87]

I don't think it's being "mean", as I do have a backbone and thicker skin than to run away from the computer crying that people are "mean" because they don't agree with me.

Sometimes I just want to bitch about stupid coworkers or family members or random things, not always necessarily religious or controversial, and I just play it safe by doing it here, rather than CS, but sorry for saying, I personally can't see why some of the nitpicking/devil's advocate/nay saying is so rampant. To me, I equate it with the "fail to see the suck" problem at CS. No suck involved, but you get my drift. Many people have let something off of their chest that they can't say to anyone they know, it may be too hot for CS, so they post, and people have the nerve to say "Why is this even a problem?" or other crap like that.

I am not saying I can't debate or that we all need to be nicey nicey to one another. I realize the main point of this site is for hot topics and debating, and it's not a vent site, maybe I should go make my own. Just feeling the need to express what pisses me off and what has bothered me. We've had a few members here in recent times (who are now banned) that I felt were just out to nitpick and argue (not debate, argue) with everyone over anything posted.

[Plaidman]

I know one or two here that exist just to debate.

Soo annoying.


But I get ya blas. Just remember.

Your more awesome then the next! You can post to vent, and others may nitpick, but you already vented what you want. You can choose to ignore and live life, all the while the few sit at the montor, staring. Waiting. They'll grow a beard, or their breasts will sag. (In some cases both). Just staring, thinking "Soon she'll be back! Then she'll see waht I post and she'll be all upset! MWA HA HA HA! I is so evil! She'll have to reply! Yes! I know it! SOOON!"

(Meanwhile you celebrated your tenth year marriage annversity!)

[blas87]

Aw Plaid, you make me blush.

I wish I had the freetime to go back and find things people have said in the past that would contradict what they are arguing. I wish I had time to standby and wait for the fur to fly. I just don't.

Some days I have more time than others, and I can get back right away and defend at the nitpickers. Other times, I'm quite surprised when I come back and find support or others with similar stories.

[Rageaholic]

I was actually about to post a thread in things I hate about BS nitpicking. What I noticed is that some threads get so derailed on such small details. By small details, I mean things such as the use of a word in a post, or some side comment that may have offended someone. In other words, things that have little relevence to the debate, but end up taking pages and pages of a thread off topic pissing about... god knows what.

[Boozy]

You can always report threads that you feel might be venturing too far off-topic. No one would be in any trouble in those situations, but the mods might decide to nudge things back on track. We won't always step in, but we will if it appears that the derailment is ruining everyone else's fun.

Nitpicking and arguing semantics is another matter. That's just how some people argue. I don't care for that style of debate myself, but it's really a matter of personal preference.

[Rapscallion]

As a side note, we've had a trend of reporting threads in an apparent attempt to claim offence and win arguments that way.

We stare in horrified fascination at such reports.

Rapscallion

[Plaidman]

But but but but but but....

if I'm not winning an argument, that it's offensive! I demand my rights of always being right! Don't make me sue the board....

[Lace Neil Singer]

As a side note, we've had a trend of reporting threads in an apparent attempt to claim offence and win arguments that way.

We stare in horrified fascination at such reports.

Rapscallion

I am very offended at this post! I demand retribution at once for my hurt feelings!

:p

[ZedOmega]

As a side note, we've had a trend of reporting threads in an apparent attempt to claim offence and win arguments that way.

We stare in horrified fascination at such reports.

Rapscallion

Wait. Waitwaitwait. So the reports are coming from people who're losing ground, can't switch counter-argument focus, and just report the thread because they're losing?!

I'm split. I'm both shaking my head at such a ridiculous move and laughing my ass off at the same time...

[jedimaster91]

Well, obviously I'm right, the rest of you are wrong, and the fact you don't realize it offends me. :p



I admit, I'm not the best at debating. I learned a long time ago I'm not going to change anyone's opinions/beliefs, so I really don't like "debating." What I do enjoy is discussing. I try to at least see the other side, even if I don't agree with it. Some people aren't willing to do that.