PEtA wants Ben and Jerry's to use human milk

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

http://www.wptz.com/news/17539127/detail.html

Now when you think of how much milk a cow can produce in a day vs how much a woman can...

Cow's average 8 gallons/day or 1,024 ounces per day. This is enough to give 128 people a, 8oz glass of milk. This is one cow.

A woman (according to my wife the lactation consultant) can produce 8oz every 4 hours. So in a day she can produce 48oz or a quart and a half.

So in order to get the milk to feed those 128 people, you would need to have just over 21 women pumping (21.33).

In Piers Anthony's "Anthonology" there was a short story in which women were bred on a parallel Earth to do nothing but be milkers. Is this what PETA is trying to do?

M

[DesignFox]

That's fucking weird...what the hell is wrong with PETA? seriously!?

[BlaqueKatt]

So in order to get the milk to feed those 128 people, you would need to have just over 21 women pumping (21.33).


the other issue is the consistency of human milk is nothing like cows milk-cow's milk is mostly fat or Cream if you will due to a baby cow needing to increase it's weight rapidly-human milk is 80% water(it is classified as a "clear liquid" due to the solute level), and very little fat, you cannot make Ice "cream" out of water-it's made from cream, human milk is closer to skim milk in consistency(but still more dilute)

not to mention human milk banks have enough trouble keeping their supply where it's needed, and they rely on donations only.

Also nice misinformation about cows being bred every 9 months-the gestation period for a standard cow is 9 months, and according to this article (http://www.arc.agric.za/home.asp?PID=1&ToolID=2&ItemID=1927) they produce milk for around 305 days after giving birth. There is a minimum waiting period of at least two months before they are allowed to be bred again, most farmers I knew growing up did not breed their cows until they had stopped producing milk-yes it made for a gap in production, but when you have over 400 heads of cattle and at least half producing it's not really much of an issue.

[Rapscallion]

That's fucking weird...what the hell is wrong with PETA? seriously!?

They want publicity. There's no such thing as bad publicity as long as they get your name right.

Rapscallion

[Sylvia727]

Um, ew.

I like the way B&J's spokesperson phrased it: "A mother's milk is best used for her child."

[Difdi]

There is also the fact that those cows are alive only because they are useful. I wonder if PETA has ever considered what would happen to the millions of cows in the dairy industry, if cows milk were banned?

A dairy is a business that exists to make a living, if not high profits. If there is zero market for cow products, there will be no point in the business to continue paying for feed, barn space, medical care, etc.

Then again, PETA has often spouted claims in the past that death is a better fate for an animal than living as a dairy cow or house pet...

[Slytovhand]

Humans and domesticated pets are the only animals that consume milk after childhood... does that say anything??

[BlaqueKatt]

Then again, PETA has often spouted claims in the past that death is a better fate for an animal than living as a dairy cow or house pet...

and they have gotten laws passed (http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/115) that would cause an animal to have a very slow and painful death.

A perfect illustration is the New Jersey anti-veal legislation Farm Sanctuary(funded by PEtA) lobbied to pass in 2004. Beyond the fact that there are no veal farms in New Jersey, the bill was preposterous as a “humane” farming bill because it mandates feeding practices that actively harm veal calves. Laws requiring that calves be fed lots of fiber and iron sound nice to an uninformed voter, but the reality is that Farm Sanctuary is willing to hurt animals in order to hurt farmers.

Surveying the scientific literature on calf nutrition in 2004, Rutgers animal science professor Michael Westendorf wrote in the journal Professional Animal Scientist: “Controlling iron intake may also reduce risks from iron-dependent pathogens in the small intestine. Pathogenic bacteria, such as Salmonella and Escheria coli, require iron for growth. These bacteria often cause scouring and diarrhea, infections that are the leading cause of death in calves.” As for fiber, Dr. Westendorf cites several sources indicating that “veal calves fed straw or other high fiber feeds had increased abomasal lesions, ulcerations, or both.”

[DesignFox]

You know...after reading about that Farm Sanctuary shit, I've got to research the Humane Society.

I thought the Humane Society was normal- but according this this article they are just as nutty as Farm Sanctuary and PETA.

Shit. and to think I've sent them money... :mad: *off to do some research*

[AFPheonix]

I think the Humane Society can be dependent on its local chapters. Some are really good, some are really shitty. If you wish to donate though, your money is probably best utilized by some of your local 501(c) organizations, although you need to really check them out first to make sure they're legit rescues and not back yard breeders in disguise.

[DesignFox]

I hear you Phoenix. I am pretty upset right now, to hear where the few dollars I had to donate went. From what I am reading, The Humane Society of the United States doesn't use a dime of that money to fund shelters or spay/neuter programs and that really bothers me. I thought that's what the donations were for!

A quick search of Best Friends Animal Sanctuary didn't pull any bad press- so maybe I'll continue sending them money (I don't agree with some of their wacky anti-fur and anti-meat eating weirdos; but at least they really DO operate no-kill shelters, they DO rescue animals, and there is plenty of press about their massive rescue efforts-and there is no report of their organization committing acts of violence or lobbying for HARMFUL laws regarding the use of animals).

I'll just have to stick with my local shelters or the ASPCA.

Man, I'm bothered right now. :(

[AFPheonix]

It's kind of that way in the horse world, too. Especially now with the horse market in the dumper (I FINALLY sold my mare last night to an excellent home. Took me 2 years to find one for her, and I almost had to halve my price) and no more local slaughter plants, hoarders are getting ahold of a lot of horses that end up starving to death in dry lots. It's at epidemic proportions.
Breeders are cutting way back, but it's mostly the good breeders at this point. I think we'll probably breed one mare this season and that's it.
Fugly Horse Of The Day has a lot of info on the situation.

[DesignFox]

I've read a little about that, too. I've talked to my instructor about the issue of horse slaughter. As sad as I find the practice, it is necessary. I'd rather the horse get a quick death, and be USED for something, rather than starve, suffer, waste away, and be good for nothing.

I can't eat horse meat. But that doesn't mean I have a right to tell others not to. And all those unwanted horses....I can't imagine what they go through. I've watched Animal Cops Houston, and it just makes me so sad to see an animal that neglected and in so much pain.

Some of these advocacy groups just drive me crazy. They really don't do any research and the rely heavily on the city and suburb dwellers ignorance to get their legislation passed. It's infuriating! I don't pretend to know thing one about animal farming... I wouldn't presume to tell a farmer what is good for his animals.

I mean, if you see someone physically abusing the animals (its bleeding, in distress, etc etc.) that's one thing. But, poking your nose in when you know nothing of the situation...um, no. Do your homework before you tell someone how to manage their livelihood.

I still can't get over the idea of using human breast milk as a replacement, as in the OP, either. I mean, for fucking real?

[AdminAssistant]

It would be so hilarious for some of these PETA folks to go to an actual farm and talk to an actual farmer and learn some of the realities of farm life. On a farm, an animal is not a fuzzy person. It is an animal. Good farmers treat their animals well, and that includes putting them down. Same thing with hunting. With many species, hunting is necessary to keep the numbers down and prevent disease.

Now, Dad didn't keep animals, but I know a bit about it. It infuriates me that these people consider a cow more important than a human being.

[cheese]

I really don't understand the breast milk part of this story - if PETA want to try and stop Ben and Jerry's using cow's milk thats one thing, but encourage them to use Soy/rice milk, surely? It doesn't involve freaking people out by eating other peoples breast milk!

[Xanthina]

I think it is odd that they would go to Ben & Jerry's, considering they are not a Factory Farm company. The only use milk from local family farms(growing up we spent our summers at one of these family farms).

Disclaimer: This is last I knew at least. If they have changed since I moved out of the area, I don't know. Everything I've seen says they are still like this.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just you wait; they'll be suggesting that restaurants serve up human flesh instead of beef.

[powerboy]

PETA, is down right stupid. It is one thing to try and protect the animals. It is another when they are just hurting the animals even worse.

[anriana]

It would be so hilarious for some of these PETA folks to go to an actual farm and talk to an actual farmer and learn some of the realities of farm life. On a farm, an animal is not a fuzzy person. It is an animal. Good farmers treat their animals well, and that includes putting them down. Same thing with hunting. With many species, hunting is necessary to keep the numbers down and prevent disease.

I don't mean this in a demeaning way, but have you heard of feedlots? Most of American meat (and animal byproducts like dairy) don't come from good ol' family farms.

Our world is growing more and more overpopulated; is it ethical to go human hunting to keep numbers down? What makes it okay for us to play god for other species?

Now, Dad didn't keep animals, but I know a bit about it. It infuriates me that these people consider a cow more important than a human being.

Does Hinduism infuriate you?


I wonder if PETA is actually serious about this or is doing this as a publicity stunt/ to draw attention to the absurdity of drinking milk intended for a different species' young.

[AdminAssistant]

Does Hinduism infuriate you?

No, of course not. That is a spiritual belief - that cows are sacred because they represent a diety. What PETA is doing is different - they don't have a spiritual reason - to be honest, I can't see a reason for even suggesting such a thing.

I do know that most of the meat that winds up on the plate doesn't come from a Mom and Pop farm. Because there aren't many Mom and Pop farms. Because farming is one of the riskiest ventures out there, and many many farmers have just sold out - leading to fewer, larger farms, where animals are more likely to be treated poorly.

A lot of people consider the Farm Bill "pork" spending. I consider it a necessary subsidy to keep those Mom and Pop farmers in business. A lot of people are still recovering from the floods last spring. I know a lot of livestock in Arkansas was killed or lost and crops were devastated. Which leads to less grain, which makes feed higher, which makes the cost of meat higher.

[AFPheonix]

No, of course not. That is a spiritual belief - that cows are sacred because they represent a diety. What PETA is doing is different - they don't have a spiritual reason - to be honest, I can't see a reason for even suggesting such a thing.

I do know that most of the meat that winds up on the plate doesn't come from a Mom and Pop farm. Because there aren't many Mom and Pop farms. Because farming is one of the riskiest ventures out there, and many many farmers have just sold out - leading to fewer, larger farms, where animals are more likely to be treated poorly.

A lot of people consider the Farm Bill "pork" spending. I consider it a necessary subsidy to keep those Mom and Pop farmers in business. A lot of people are still recovering from the floods last spring. I know a lot of livestock in Arkansas was killed or lost and crops were devastated. Which leads to less grain, which makes feed higher, which makes the cost of meat higher.

The problem with the Farm Bill is it really doesn't do a whole lot for mom and pop farms. It really only subsidizes that larger corporate-owned farms. Until this last iteration, it didn't even cover farms that grow vegetables like you find on the West Coast.
The farmers in my area do not benefit from it, even though people like them are typically the ones used as the reason for the bill in the first place. It needs to be revamped because it encourages the consolidation of large farms.
But that's a rant for another thread.

As for the horse slaughter, what I'd like to see happen would be state-owned lots where you pay to drop your horse off. That would dissuade people trying to make a buck off their crap horses they're breeding. My only concern is that most pleasure, show, and race horses are loaded up on vaccines, wormers, and other chemical products that would make them unfit for meat. I'm not sure what the half-life on those are, either. That would give me some pause. However, if it ended up being safe enough, people could get some quality lean meat for pets.

[Boozy]

No, of course not. That is a spiritual belief - that cows are sacred because they represent a diety. What PETA is doing is different - they don't have a spiritual reason - to be honest, I can't see a reason for even suggesting such a thing.

I'm hesitant to disregard someone's beliefs just because they don't come from deity worship. I think atheists, for example, are entitled to a set of morals and ethics without having some mystical reason for it.

I can't think of any logical reason why someone can't believe that the lives of animals are as valuable as those of humans. I don't necessarily agree, but the idea doesn't appall me.

I do have trouble wrapping my head around the idea that animals are better off dead than in captivity, though. Would PETA have supported the killing of human slaves?

[anriana]

No, of course not. That is a spiritual belief - that cows are sacred because they represent a diety.

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/82/story_8229_1.html

No.

[AdminAssistant]

Ah, I see. My knowledge of Eastern religions/beliefs (Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) is rather shaky.

[Slytovhand]

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/82/story_8229_1.html

No.

Well now, that article was a bit interesting, and since in essence it contradicted my thoughts (as indicated by a couple of others on here...).

So, I did the obvious... I walked down to my co-worker who is Hindu, and asked her.

Her response - "We worship the cow, because it represents Brahma". Yes, she did stress the word 'worship'.

I can appreciate that history tells a different story, and like Rimmer's parents who were Seventh Day Advent Hoppists, there maybe a particular reason for the direction worship has taken.


Still OT :p


Slyt

[Kirkygirl]

As far as I know, Ben and Jerry's is actually a really good company. They refuse to use bovine growth hormone, they use milk from local co-ops, they give some of their profits back to the same co-ops, they use fair trade coffees, and 35/36 of the ice creams that they have at the local mall here are made from natural and strictly controlled ingredients. The only one that is not strictly controlled is their ice cream with the Heath bar in it (that's Skor for us Canucks).
My friend also lives on a co-op dairy farm that her family runs, and all the animals are very well taken care of, thanks. :)
So yeah, I think that this action by PeTA is kinda stupid.

[Xanthina]

So yeah, I think that this action by PeTA is kinda stupid.

More detailed, but exactly what I said ^_^

Glad to hear someone else standing up for B&J, they are awesome.

[wanderingjoe72]

It is stunts like this that cause people to dump on PeTA. Throwing paint on people and chaining yourself to stuff leads to the group being mocked on a regular basis. They claim to have good intentions, but then again, isn't the road to Hell paved with good intentions?

For the most part, every group with a cause thinks that they are right. Some are stable enough to realise if they offer reasonable solutions or use practical means to acheive their goals, people will listen. Others are filled with irrational people that will resort to stunts like this. They seek to shock others into seeing their view. However, since most of us are rational, we see it for what it is and can enjoy a laugh at their expense.

[Flyndaran]

P.E.T.A. just love making impossible to enact demands.
There is no way a large company could get a large enough supply of human milk to meet their needs. Second, they would not be even close to competing in dollars to gallons with companies using cheap cow's milk.
Third, there is definitely no way to certify the purity of human milk unless such women were kept in monitored places for months before the "milking" began. We humans are disgusting creatures capable of eating nearly anything on earth and willingly ingest toxins for medicinal as well as recreational uses. I wouldn't want to consume human tissue for all the risks.

[Skunkle]

I agree that it seems, with this, PETA is going for shock value above practicality in order to gain more publicity. And this seems to be something they do often.

Example: Another campaign they have is against eating fish. They say that we have no qualms about slaughtering (eating) fish because they're "fish". What is needed is a new name, and they suggest... sea kittens. Because who would want to eat a kitten? I saw some art showing fish pretending to be kittens. And the art cemented my opinion without a doubt - this had to be a joke. Until I went to the PETA site and saw it there, complete with the same art.

So, yes, I concur that they're hunting for shock value in order to draw eyes to their real ideas somehow. I guess the way famous fashion designers show off outrageous designs no one would ever wear in public at fashion shows, to drum up attention for their brand as a whole. Sorry, PETA, but I don't think it's having the desired effect. For example, I too hate the disgusting side of the beef industry and I don't fault those who don't eat meat for these ethical reasons. But I also don't want to stop eating meat - BUT, if someone really wants me to quit, it's going to take convincing, not shock tactics.