Muslim said something about a jet. He must be terriost.

[Plaidman]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090102/ap_on_re_us/muslim_passengers_removed

Ok, so it isn't as bad as the title. But a muslim family, (USA citizens) was booted off the plane, after one of them, a Lawyer, asked his brother, a anesthesiologist, if sitting next to the jet on a plane was safe. Naturally people freaked out, and the airport booted all 9 of them off. Gave them a refund, but told them to get out.

Even after the FBI cleared them, saying they were innocent, the airport says no dice, go to another airport.

Now that they are offically clear, they can come back.

But the dudes are thinking of a lawsuit.

The airport claims it wasn't based on their appearinces or faith, that it was just a coinidence.

[anriana]

"made comments they shouldn't make on an airplane" really? What a horrible response. I hope they do sue.

[Greenday]

If it was a white person who said it, I bet nothing would have come of it. There was no reasonable grounds for not letting them back on. Fine, maybe somebody truly misheard what was said and thought they said something completely different without even knowing who it was that sat behind them. But if the FBI comes in, checks them out, and NOTHING is wrong, what valid reasoning can you come up with for not letting them back on after already inconveniencing them? Um, absolutely nothing.

[Sylvia727]

From my understanding, this is what happened. The Muslims were discussing among themselves which seats were the safest on an airplane, meaning in case of an accident. Another passenger overheard them and reported them to the airline personnel. The air marshals escorted them off the plane and interviewed them. The FBI got back to them with a security clearence. The airline officials denied them re-entry. Later, higher up officials in the airline reimbursed their tickets, offered to fly them for free, and when they heard the family had already booked tickets on another airline, paid for those tickets.

The passenger who reported them may have racist, or perhaps just overly paranoid. I know plenty of people who are petrified of flying without the complications of 9/11. An overreaction, yes, but without further information we can't say for certain it was a racist one. The air marshals were informed of a possible security threat, so they escorted the suspects off and interviewed them. Presumably, they were the ones who called the FBI and informed the airline of their non-threat status. I read nothing in the article to indicate that they were out of line. It's their job to investigate any potential threat. The suck lies with the local airline authorities. They were told by the FBI that these people were not suspected of anything, and presumably were told by the air marshals that the conversation was innocent. I can't imagine that the marshals didn't get to the bottom of the misunderstanding in very short order. To continue to deny them service on the basis of an overheard and misunderstood conversation, and nothing else, reeks of racism and/or religious bigotry.

I admire the higher-up officials, though. Paying for their flights on another airline was the right thing to do, and required by basic decency, but so often people don't do the decent thing. I hope the company investigates the officials who denied them service, disciplines or dismisses those responsible, and revises their policies and training for future, similiar situations.

[daleduke17]

"made comments they shouldn't make on an airplane" really? What a horrible response. I hope they do sue.

Yeah, because that is the right thing to do. What a fucking joke.

[anriana]

Yeah, because that is the right thing to do. What a fucking joke.

Sarcasm ?

[Flyndaran]

Sarcasm ?

If their civil rights were violated, which is what it sounds like happened, then lawsuits are the only really way to force a company to curtail their illegal activities. Hittting them in the pocket book is the only thing they understand.

[daleduke17]

Sarcasm ?

The first part, yes. Second part, no.

This is the same thing as yelling "Fire" in a movie theater. Don't walk onto a plane and do what the people in the story did.

The airline and associated people did right. The fact the people are Muslim was a coincidence.

[Greenday]

Don't walk onto a plane and do what the people in the story did.

So any of the workers on the plane who discuss what to do in the even of an emergency should be kicked off too? Cause what they talk about is the same as what these passengers were discussing. Yelling fire in a movie theater is extremely different from discussing what do to in the event of an emergency.

I admire the higher-up officials, though. Paying for their flights on another airline was the right thing to do, and required by basic decency, but so often people don't do the decent thing.

That's not basic decency. That's following the law. If an airline for some reason is unable to accommodate you, they are required by law to find you another flight on another company's plane.

[smileyeagle1021]

The airline and associated people did right. The fact the people are Muslim was a coincidence.

so, according to you I should not be allowed to fly?

I've before gotten in a seat and made the comment "hmm, this is far from an emergency exit, I wonder how safe it would be if we have to evacuate" ... I've also had conversations about how I was happy that we were booked on a plane because it was a safe model or had the conversation about how I wasn't thrilled to be booked on a plane because it was a model that had problems.

Guess what, I've never been kicked off the plane... the worst that's happened was a flight attendant once explained how in fact the seat/plane we were on was safe and explained why... never even been told to shut up or get off... I have no doubt that race played a role in the situation. And if you want to rebut that, find me one example where a white passenger is kicked off for discussing if where they are would be safe in an accident.

[Boozy]

The airline and associated people did right. The fact the people are Muslim was a coincidence.

I admire your commitment to naivete and innocence in such a world, but do you really believe that?

[daleduke17]

I admire your commitment to naivete and innocence in such a world, but do you really believe that?

For Christ's sake, I'm not fucking naive or innocent. I know people suck. I know there is racism in the world.

Not everything is a fucking conspiracy or racially motivated. So a Muslim group was kicked off the plane? The staff was only following rules put in place by the company or the government.

But, yes, I do believe what I said. Don't like it or agree with it? Fine.

[Flyndaran]

Yikes, we all thought you were joking. If not naive, then the only alternative is that you wish for a police state in which everyone is allowed to screw over the private citizen for no reason at all.
I'ld much rather you were naive than that.

[smileyeagle1021]

For Christ's sake, I'm not fucking naive or innocent. I know people suck. I know there is racism in the world.

Not everything is a fucking conspiracy or racially motivated. So a Muslim group was kicked off the plane? The staff was only following rules put in place by the company or the government.


thing is... there is no rule saying that you can't question the safety of where you are sitting, because I have heard people ask that every single flight... but I've never seen anyone kicked off... until it was a group of Muslims that asked it... that to me (and apparently a lot of the posters on this thread so far) says that it has at least something to do with race.

[Dreamstalker]

The staff was only following rules put in place by the company or the government.
So...the airline/government prohibits benign questions about safety? If that statement were wholly true, anyone asking "is it safe to sit by the engines?" or a question about evacuation procedures would be removed and arrested/slapped on a no-fly list.

From where I'm sitting, it has everything to do with unfortunate racial stereotypes. I'm a fairly seasoned flier, but a number of years ago my mom was fairly nervous and for a while had to take Clonapin to fly. She would ask me every so often "is this the safest place to sit?" etc. Granted, this was before 9/11 but those questions could still be routine for people who don't fly much/at all.

The exchange in the story was understandable enough. If they weren't acting "suspicious" otherwise, the airline had no right to do what they did.

[Evandril]

The first part, yes. Second part, no.

This is the same thing as yelling "Fire" in a movie theater. Don't walk onto a plane and do what the people in the story did.

The airline and associated people did right. The fact the people are Muslim was a coincidence.

No, it's the same thing as asking if the theater has a fire exit, or where the closest seat is to the exit in case of a fire.

By that reasoning, because I *work* on aircraft, and have reassured people about were to sit, I shouldn't be allowed to fly again...Could someone please inform my bosses?

Taking them off to check things out, yeah, 'tis understandable...Refusing them admittance after being *cleared* by the FBI? Notsomuch. The FBI is *NOT* about to clear someone if there is the least doubt in their minds they are safe..I'm certain their luggage got a nice thourough going over, as well as everything else they had on them before that clearance was given.

And FYI...Most plane crashes are because of human/machine error, only a VERY small percentage are terrorist...So why is finding the safest place due to terrorism? Though if I fly, I'm given a safety briefing by my security forces, telling me what is safest in *CASE* of a terrorist attack....Guess that's two strikes against me, I'd not even be getting my money back ;)

[daleduke17]

Fine. I'm fucking wrong. Whatever.

I'm sick and tired of every time I try to say something, I'm considered an asshole, racist or wanting a police state.

Hey mods, delete my fucking account, please.

[Slytovhand]

I'm thinking that it was the other passengers who were racist. They saw someone dressed in Muslim clothing, with arabic looks, overheard a few words - and got edgy. They did what I presume everyone is told to do.. if they see something 'suspicious', tell the officials.

Yes, I'm thinking the passengers were being a bit racist (and paranoid), and the other officials weren't good either.

[Cat]

I heard one of the family members on NPR the other day....now, Id be pretty pissed about all this, but the guy was cool....he praised the FBI for getting them a flight, and the interviewer make a joke about the guys Michigan accent.


From the interview, the family was merely debating whether the front or the back of the plane were the safest seats.....no mention of explosives or anything stupid like that.

[Boozy]

Fine. I'm fucking wrong. Whatever.

I'm sick and tired of every time I try to say something, I'm considered an asshole, racist or wanting a police state.

I don't think anyone has called you a racist asshole or any other names that I have seen (I hope not). In fairness, I called you naive, and that wasn't very cool of me. I should have said that I found your argument ill-informed. I owe you an apology there.

With that said, no one is going to stop disagreeing with you if that's how they feel. It certainly sucks to be in the minority opinion, and you've found yourself there a few times. It can make you feel like everyone's ganging up on you, even though it's not about you personally. It's just that you happen to be the only one taking the other side here.

Hey mods, delete my fucking account, please.

If you don't want to come back, don't. But your account will still be here should you change your mind. I hope you do. :)

[powerboy]

Fine. I'm fucking wrong. Whatever.

I'm sick and tired of every time I try to say something, I'm considered an asshole, racist or wanting a police state.



I know how you feel. Also on here, when I post something, I get treated like an asshole from some people. That is why I hardly come here anymore. it makes it no fun to be a part of this site, when that stuff happens.

[The Shadow]

What really makes me angry about this is that the people most responsible, -- the passengers that overheard them talking and reported them to airline staff, probably faced no consequences because of this. I realize that when it comes to airline security these days, you can't be too careful. But I find it difficult to believe that the airline would have taken their complaint seriously if they'd relayed what had been said accurately. My guess is they only overheard parts of their conversation and filled in the gaps with their own imaginations and basically blew it all out of proportion.

If anything, THEY'RE the ones that should apologize.

[lordlundar]

The airline and associated people did right. The fact the people are Muslim was a coincidence.

You seriously believe that bunch of bull you just spewed? Here's a news flash for you, THEY PASSED THE SECURITY CHECK! The FBI gave their okay that they were not dangerous so security was no longer an issue. Yet the airline STILL refused them completely for no reason that I can see apart that they are Muslim. That is discrimination at it's heart.:mad:

[Sylvia727]

I didn't know that it was federal law. I'm not surprised, but I hadn't known that. So I'm a bit less impressed, but I still admire the senior officials for jumping on the ball so quickly and efficiently. Yes, it's their job and legal requirement, but they deserve a quick pat on the back for it all the same. If they investigate who precisely was/were the racist(s) in this scenario and take appropriate measures, also their job, then they will deserve a longer pat on the back for that.

[IDrinkaRum]

From my understanding, all the people on the plane were removed (not just those who were Muslim) and they were all put through the security check again. All the people on the plane were "inconvenienced", not just the suspected Muslim terrorists.

Playing the "If I wasn't Muslim, and I said that exact same statement, I wouldn't be in this predicament"? Yeah ... RACE/RELIGION CARD.

Let me tell y'all something: I'm a white, middle-class female in her 30's. If I were to see my friend Jack at the airport, or realized we were on the same plane together, do y'all suppose I'd be in deep doo-doo for saying: "Hi, Jack!" really loud? If you don't think I'd get looked at closely by the FBI for that, then you're living in La-La land.

There are certain things you do. not. say. in the post-9/11 world and some of them are: discussing the plane blowing up, how to get into the cockpit and anything that sounds like you're wanting to take over the airplane at all no matter what race, sex, or religion you are.

[Greenday]

Playing the "If I wasn't Muslim, and I said that exact same statement, I wouldn't be in this predicament"? Yeah ... RACE/RELIGION CARD.

Let me tell y'all something: I'm a white, middle-class female in her 30's. If I were to see my friend Jack at the airport, or realized we were on the same plane together, do y'all suppose I'd be in deep doo-doo for saying: "Hi, Jack!" really loud? If you don't think I'd get looked at closely by the FBI for that, then you're living in La-La land.

There are certain things you do. not. say. in the post-9/11 world and some of them are: discussing the plane blowing up, how to get into the cockpit and anything that sounds like you're wanting to take over the airplane at all no matter what race, sex, or religion you are.

It's not really the race card if it's true.

If you said "Hi, Jack" to a friend on a plane, you would not get kicked off a plane. Not at all.

I've discussed planes blowing up before while on a plane. I've discussed emergencies on a plane. All of this post-9/11. I didn't get kicked off the plane. I didn't even get talked to. So I guess that means that just talking about it doesn't automatically get you kicked off a plane. Which means there must have been some other motive.

[Evandril]

It's not really the race card if it's true.

If you said "Hi, Jack" to a friend on a plane, you would not get kicked off a plane. Not at all.

I've discussed planes blowing up before while on a plane. I've discussed emergencies on a plane. All of this post-9/11. I didn't get kicked off the plane. I didn't even get talked to. So I guess that means that just talking about it doesn't automatically get you kicked off a plane. Which means there must have been some other motive.

Actually, if you were to loudly say 'Hi, Jack!' on a plane...expect to be talking to someone. The actions of *removing* them and determining if there was a threat I find fairly silly, but can understand. Not allowing them back on? *THAT* part was uncalled for. Honestly, if I'm planning on doing something to endanger the plane, I don't really believe I'd be trying to figure out the *safest* place to sit...Either I'm willing to die for my cause, and take everyone else out, or I'm not going to be in my 'safe' seat in any case. Has anyone heard of someone taking over an aircraft, and then going *BACK* to their seat and sitting down? Seems sorta like thinking someone might be a suicide bomber because they are talking about bullet proof vests, IMO.