Fratching! http://www.fratching.com/ en Sat, 19 May 2012 22:15:03 GMT vBulletin 60 http://fratching.com/fusion/misc/rss.jpg Fratching! http://www.fratching.com/ RMT and other gaming conflicts http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6333&goto=newpost Sat, 19 May 2012 01:25:02 GMT There’s been a lot of discussion about the Diablo 3 RMT (Real Money Transfer) Auction House in other threads, and I think it’s a worthwhile discussion on its own right, without derailing other threads.

I’m going to say some things that some people will view as very controversial, and I want you to please read and think about all of this before responding.

From an ethical standpoint, there are many things that have a mixed reception among multiplayer game players, particularly RPGs, and especially MMORPGs. RMT (Real Money Trading), Twinking (giving powerful items to someone who hasn’t technically earned it), and Power-leveling (high-level players assisting lower-level players in defeating challenges much faster than they could normally). All of these have some detractors and some defenders.

From the game’s perspective, there is functionally no difference between RMT, Twinking, Power-leveling, and helping a friend. None whatsoever. Consider the following scenarios.

1.) All of the raiding members of Guild A have defeated Bastion of Twilight 25-man (BoT), and none of them need any items from the loot list for BoT. A newer guildmember named Skippy finally reaches 85, and in an effort to get Skippy up to current content, Guild A members offer to run Skippy through BoT a few times to get some equipment for him and bring him up more-or-less up to speed with the rest of the guild.
2.) Guild A offers to run Skippy’s brother Thumper (who isn’t in the guild) through BoT for 10k gold, and Thumper gets all drops related to his class.
3.) Guild A offers to run Thumper through BoT in exchange for mowing Skippy’s lawn.
4.) Guild A offers to run Thumper through BoT for $20.
5.) Guild A offers to sell Thumper specific drops from BoT for 10k gold, and they’ll run him through as many times as it takes to get X item that you want.
6.) Guild A offers to sell Thumper specific drops from BoT for $20.

And there are many other variations on these themes. Note that only 2 and 5 are even traceable to any degree (since there’s gold being exchanged), and the ones that are most objectionable and the ones that are least objectionable are completely indistinguishable, from the perspective of a GM or other admin.

So, with all of that in mind, I have a question for those of you who object to RMT in games, and especially to Blizzard’s implementation of the RMT Auction House in Diablo 3. How do you stop it? How do you combat something that you’re functionally unable to detect?

If you can’t stop it, is there a point to making a rule about it? Isn’t a rule that you don’t (or can’t) enforce actually worse than no rule at all? ]]> Clash of Cultures Nekojin http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6333 Computer DIY Woes http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6332&goto=newpost Fri, 18 May 2012 19:11:12 GMT Andara and I were highly anticipating the Diablo 3 launch - so much so, that she decided she needed a new video card for her system (She actually did... Andara and I were highly anticipating the Diablo 3 launch - so much so, that she decided she needed a new video card for her system (She actually did - there was something wrong with the way her card's family processed D3's graphics, well-documented on the Blizzard forums, and the cards are old enough that it wasn't worth Blizzard's time to fix it). So while she was getting her video card, I decided to do a minor upgrade of my own. Tropico 4 had a nasty habit of overheating my CPU and freezing my system. So I picked up a CPU that was in the same family as my old one, but a bit faster (somewhere on the order of twice as fast).

On Monday, I went to the Diablo 3 launch party, had some fun, had some dinner, didn't win the custom PCs, but did go home with some swag and a shiny-new massively-autographed Collector's Edition.

On Tuesday, our hardware order arrived. We got home, and quickly got busy on tearing apart our systems. I got done first, but the system wouldn't boot. The drive lights came on, fans came on, but nothing else happened. It didn't even make it to POST. After puzzling over this for a bit while Andara replaced her video card, I figured out the problem - the BIOS on the motherboard was 3 years old, while this particular CPU is only about 2 years old. I needed to update the BIOS. Which is incredibly difficult to do when the system won't even POST. And while I'm trying to puzzle out this dilemma, Andara is happily chugging away on installing Diablo 3.

The next morning, I spent an hour or so trying to find some sort of workaround that I could do with the parts on hand. The old CPU wasn't going back in - it had bent pins, and I have no confidence in my ability to straighten them. Finally, I gave up, and ordered a new motherboard/CPU combo from Newegg, and set it for Will Call at their local office. After work, I headed over, picked up the parts, and went home. I pulled out all of the cards, demounted the motherboard, and put in the new one. Plugging in all the connections that a system needs takes a while! =0_o=

So finally, I get to the point of plugging in memory. I size up the memory slot, taking note of where the notch is, and go to put my old memory in. The notch doesn't line up, so I turn the memory stick around... and the notch still doesn't line up! And then it hits me - I forgot to check for memory compatibility. The old system used 182-pin DDR2 memory, the new one uses 240-pin DDR3 memory. :banghead:

So we order some new memory from Newegg, and set it for Will Call again. I fall asleep absurdly early, and sleep straight through to the next morning.

Thursday comes, and I'm ready to go get my parts. The parts show as being in Packaging, and I figure that I should be able to go get them on my lunch break (taking an extra-long lunch break with management approval). The mobo/cpu and other parts that I ordered at the same time were ready by 12:30, so a pair of memory sticks should be faster, right?

Well... yes and no. I arrive at the Newegg will call center at 1 PM, and my memory isn't there. In fact, I get there just in time to witness the site manager flipping his lid over the fact that the delivery truck that brings parts from the warehouse to the Will Call office is broken down... in Downtown.

So I have a seat, preparing to cool my heels for an hour or so. But it turns out that the dispatcher was on the ball, and had a replacement truck rolling immediately. At the point that the Will Call manager was flipping out, they were already transferring the racks of product from one truck to another, and getting it back on the road. It arrived only 10 minutes later, and I headed back to my office.

We get home, I plug in the new memory, get everything all connected and triple-check all of the connections (take it from me, there's nothing more frustrating than forgetting to hook up the Power switch!), and declare it to be ready for the Smoke test. The system powers on... and nothing happens for long enough for Andara to start thinking that something else is wrong. And then the BIOS screen finally pops up, and my system is running. But Windows isn't launching properly - it gets partway through the boot, and then freezes. So I use my phone to surf for a potential solution, and quickly hit on what turns out to be the right answer: There's a setting in BIOS called Legacy USB Support that is on by default. Turning it off got my system all the way through boot, and my system came up and ready to go. Windows 7 being what it is, it started quietly installing drivers for the new hardware while I'm fumbling with the driver disc. I install a few drivers from the disc, but can't find the driver for the mobo itself and its peripherals - there should be drivers for those, right? RIGHT?

Well, no, it seems that those are integral drivers in Win7 now. No need to have the manufacturer's disc for those. My system prompts a reboot out of the blue, and since I'm done with the few minor drivers that were on the disc, I agree. And it reboots... into my glorious system, exactly how I had it on Monday night. I dink around for about 20 minutes, making sure that everything works ("There's no sound!" "Turn up the volume, doofus."), and finally get into Diablo 3. Three days after launch, when I had a copy in my hands only three hours after the midnight launch.

So, I have to give massive props to the Microsoft Windows team. Under XP or older versions of Windows, the surgery that I did on my system would have required a clean install of the OS. And Win7 just chugs along, makes the necessary changes, and nags me to authenticate once more.

So how was your week? :lol: ]]> Grab Bag Nekojin http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6332 Digital piracy (long) http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6330&goto=newpost Fri, 18 May 2012 11:20:05 GMT I've been jumbling my thoughts recently, and I need to vent about this aspect.


First off, piracy existed before the internet. It will exist if the entire world wide web crashes. It is not a new phenomenon. It is a mindset, a correlation between something, and our desire for it and the trouble in obtaining that something. So saying that online piracy is killing the music industry, is like saying imitation designer clothes are killing off the fashion industry. Why yes, dear reader, that imitation Rolex, that imitation Prada, they are a form of piracy as well. When the internet was in its infancy, people pirated using cassetes, CDs, VHS, anything which could record and replay something. And if you shut down the internet, it will simply revert back to those standards, those means. It will not stop.
And if you take into consideration that piracy existed before the internet, and take into account that even the complete shutdown of the internet to be incapable of destroying piracy, then fighting piracy is a losing battle (much like the War on Drugs). If you TRULY want to fight piracy, my advice is to get behind the mindset of most pirates. Change the opinions, their views, their desires. When piracy becoms unfashionable, outdated, cancerous, THAT is the day when it will end. Untill then, it will evolve, adapt, just as fast as humans adapt (so a super computer could be able to dupe piracy as well), since it is a human desire.

However, the internet has improved conditions. It has enabled piracy to flourish. And I doubt that there is any way to truly combat this aspect. Beause as soon as you censor, disable or prevent in any way, information to be transmitted or recieved, you are defying the very nature and fundemental idea behind the internet, which is the transmition of information. Computers do not care what the information is, A brand new song, or a 10 year old game that is not for sale anywhere anymore. Trying to tell a computer "do NOT transmit anything with this in the file" not going to affect it much, since we (humans) can look at the data, and rearange it as instructed somewhere. For example: "Do NOT transmit files that contains the sequence (AB302C). A pirate will simply send 2 files, one having (AB3) and the other (02C). " The second problem is encoding. I forget which company had it, but some company presented a challenge to all the hackers and crackers around the world, to break its (128bit I think) encryption key. I know that it took them more than 2 years to break it, since the best way then was a brute force method, simply trying every possible combination. I imagine that there exist, nowadays, a far stronger encryption, meaning that the encoding and encrypting data would be a nightmare for anyone trying to tell your computer or your provider that something cannot be sent or recieved. And the basic windows encryption would be good enough for small scale files (like an album). And the day encryption is disallowed is the day when all the hackers and crackers rejoice, since every goverment and corporation communication over the internet will be left wide open to attack.
The other part is that the internet should remain free. Censoring the internet is like saying "You cannot say this and this over the phone". Or that you cannot write something and send it through the mail. The internet should remain free. At all times. It is a means of communication. It has its ups and downs, its bonuses and its faults. But the reason why it has become so popular, so successful, is that it is a means of mass communication, where anyone can express themselves and be heard by opponents and/or likeminded people. It is excellent for debate, for the exchange of ideas, on a rapid and worldwide scale. To sum it up: LEAVE THE INTERNET ALONE AND FREE! Do not use ANY excuse to shut it down. If you do, you are censoring what people may say, may do. You can look at it, of course but do NOT prevent its fundemental principle, which is the exchange of information.

Piracy is not always a bad thing (gasp!). It does contribute to the original content in the form of publicity and awareness. Figures here vary considerably, and my opinion is that it varies depending on the product, much more so than on the pirates. Think of it this way: The more trouble there is with the product, or obtaining the product, the more likely it is to be pirated. There are lot of variables here and I simply don't think I can present even half of them.
A few people have grasped onto and embraced piracy. Radiohead, indie developers, artists big and small. They do not directly fight it with laws and obstructions, but rather, they give it out and ask for returns as the consumer sees fit. The "pay what you want" method, and honestly, I believe it to be the best solution so far. As many music artists will tell you, they don't get a lot of money from album sales. Not even from song sales. The biggest income they have is from shows and concerts. From merchandice and live performances. And in this regard the internet and piracy is an increadibly valuable tool. The availability and spread of information about product makes it such a great tool.
Many people also use piracy as a form of preview. Myself and my brother included. The products and companies that we like, we will either buy the product we like, or we will try to compensate in some other way. Those that we believe NOT to be worth what they want, we don't buy. And if you look at it short-term, yes it is a lost sale. But long term, people will be too burnt, too frustrated with it all that they will stop buying alltogether, since all the products are going to suck. Even the good ones. The same thing that happened to me and the music industry a while back, I refused to buy or listen to anythig or anyone, as I will not fork over 20 euros for 1, maybe 2 good songs and the rest being gibberish.

That said, piracy is not a always a good thing. It stiffles up innovation and development, it DOES cost companies of their money. And an argument I've seen around was "They make so much, they can handle it!". Erm, no, a company, even one with record sales, still has to pay employees, still has to operate. If enough people pirate, they are costing someone a raise or even a job. I will not get into the whole company leaders paychecks debate, leave it for some other time.
Piracy also helps hard criminals. You might be scratching your head right now, but yes, tech-savvy gangs, mafia, drug cartels, they all have a bit to make from piracy. It is the same (again) as with any other drug. If there is a black market, then the illegals will try to cash in on it. And piracy is a form of a black market, even though a rather cheap one.
I would like to point out one thing here. The innovation and development. In my opinion it DOEs stiffle it a bit. But not as much as the media these days might want you to believe. Moreso than piracy, I believe that (in the USA) copyright trolls are stiffling up innovation. If you are LEGALY not allowed to invent something that is not on the market, because you get sued for everything you have, simply because it looks or functions similarly to something someone thought of before, but never utilised it, then innovation will stagnate. Inventors and innovators lose far more to them, than to piracy, which will usually give full credit to the inventor. Hell, sometimes pirates will pay the creator back (though it is not that often).

In conclusion, combating piracy is going to be a losing battle. Console gaming is going a tremendeus way and is partly succesefull. That is until people start modding their consoles, reverse engineering them or emulating them on the computer, then it is just another PC part of information. It has happened before and it will continue to happen in the future. To truly combat piracy, change their minds, not their means.

My apologies for the long post, and I would be grateful for an outside view on the subject. ]]> Grab Bag kamn http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6330 <![CDATA[Justice Department Defends Peoples' Right to Record]]> http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6322&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 21:04:43 GMT Justice Dept. defends public’s constitutional ‘right to record’ cops... Justice Dept. defends public’s constitutional ‘right to record’ cops (article at Ars Technica)

The headline pretty much speaks for itself.

The Justice Department has stated, plainly and clearly, that the citizens of the US have the right to record the public conduct of the police, and that any police who take action against such are in violation.

The letter is pretty unambiguous that police need to pretend that people recording their activities are not there unless there is a specific reason not to (related to interference, inciting, or safety).

^-.-^ ]]> Social Woes Andara Bledin http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6322 Choosing *exceptionally* non-illustrative examples http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6321&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 06:24:54 GMT I just read this (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-stakes-in-same-sex-marriage/2012/05/15/gIQAlNq6RU_story.html), and was so strongly... I just read this, and was so strongly struck by a pair of sentences that I had to tell *somebody.*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patricia McGuire, Alexandria
The man and woman complement each other and can bring forth new life. An example of a good family is St. Joseph, the Virgin Mary and the child Jesus.
I don't intend this thread to be about gay marriage or religion; there are plenty of those already. But if you're making the argument that marriage must be between a man and a woman because that's where children come from, and you want to support that with a biblical example (though it's hardly necessary anyway; we all know about the "birds and bees" already) why pick the *one* family in the whole book where it didn't happen that way? ]]> Grab Bag HYHYBT http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6321 Man kills himself over mortgage http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6320&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 04:48:49 GMT Link... Link

Quick recap since the article is long.

Couple makes payments.
Bank Loses payments.
Couple provides proof of said payment.
Bank keeps screwing up while foreclosing.
2 years later with pending lawsuit against bank man snaps and kills himself.

The page also has a link to some court documents.. 30 pages of them. Normally reading such a thing would make me go into a coma.. this just pissed me off. ]]> Social Woes bara http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6320 being targeted by panhandlers http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6319&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 04:13:05 GMT *Just a minor gripe which I have.........had problems with this on and off when I still lived in my apartment and had to walk everywhere*

I hadn't been approached by panhandlers in a long while, but had three incidents within the past few days. Two of them occurred within a minute or so of each other - I'd gone to the store during my lunch hour at work, and while walking back, was first approached by a guy asking for change. (the guy had seen me getting something from one of the soda machines outside the store)

Not too many feet away, I had a guy try to sell me a bus pass......I didn't look at it to see if it was valid, but I already get one for free through my job.

Then this afternoon, I took the bus to Subway to pick up some dinner for my daughter, and had a woman ask me for change or something.....she said she needed help paying for medical care for her little girl. (no idea if this was true or no, she was alone)

Anyhow, while I understand that people are sometimes in bad situations, I sometimes feel like I get approached just because I'm a young, solitary female. ]]> Things I hate KellyHabersham http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6319 <![CDATA["If you are going to vote for Obama, be prepared to find a new job!"]]> http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6318&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 03:26:44 GMT Ok so here's the deal, my friend works for a small (16 employees) company and he told me the other day the company owner STRONGLY implied (though not directly stated) what is indicated in the thread title.

That is, that anyone in the company who votes for Obama in November could be at risk of losing their job because of it.

This guy is a hardcore Republican who makes his views clearly known to everyone around him. He's got the Tea Party bumper stickers, listens to Rush Limbaugh in his office and is constantly complaining about the "Liberals" that are destroying the country.

Now my friend hasn't decided which way he's going to vote yet, but he and I are trying to determine the legality of this situation. As far as I'm aware a voter is under no obligation to reveal to anyone who he or she votes for.

But, if that information does become known, are companies permitted to use it against someone?

This whole situation is messed up and my friend is looking for a new job but, well you know how it is out there these days. ]]> Politics Crazedclerkthe2nd http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6318 delete this? http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6316&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 03:20:08 GMT Exterminate! Exterminate! (changed my mind, how do i delete this?) Exterminate! Exterminate!


(changed my mind, how do i delete this?) ]]> Things I hate PepperElf http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6316 Rampant Thievery on DeviantArt http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6315&goto=newpost Thu, 17 May 2012 00:36:03 GMT I'm sure a lot of artists (or just those that peruse DA) have noticed that a lot of "artists" on that site will trace over or outright copy someone else's work and then neglect to give proper credit. Most of the time no one notices or cares, because the copy/tracing work is so awful that the "art" doesn't get very many views.

I found a piece of "art" on DA today that is an obvious trace/rehash of an older Seifer/Squall (Final Fantasy 8) picture from Maxim Deep Forest (a japan-based website, from what I can remember). The traced artwork has no comments, so either no one has noticed it's an obvious ripoff or no one cares. I'm tempted to leave a comment telling the "artist" to give props to the original artist, but something tells me they'll either get butthurt and delete my post or ignore me outright.

To be completely truthful, I don't even think it's worth making a stink over on DA. The artist is obviously someone who copies/traces all of their artwork, and therefore doesn't have many followers. ]]> Things I hate Seifer http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6315 <![CDATA[It's Not Going Anywhere]]> http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6314&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 23:59:11 GMT You know what, everyone who bugs us about our toddler's hair (mostly Husband's family)? If he is wearing camo pants, an Avengers t-shirt, Spider-man shoes, and is grubbing around in the dirt with his dump truck, and someone thinks he's a girl just because he has long hair, then they have a problem, not him.

Not like I even care. Half the time I don't even correct them if it is some stranger on the street I will never see again, and if I do correct them I make sure to let them know they didn't offend me.

I had actually considered cutting it for the summer (it's going to be a hot one) but then he started allowing me to put it in a ponytail, so there. When he asks me to cut it, I will have it done. Right now he doesn't seem to care, and neither do I.

That mane of golden curls is going NOWHERE, get used to it. ]]> Things I hate anakhouri http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6314 This one hits close to home for me. http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6313&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 23:14:43 GMT This guy was a friend of my sister's. He was an awesome guy, he was funny, hell I have a Mii he made in my Wii.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-shooting.html

http://www.therepublic.com/view/stor...ater-Shooting/


I just can't think what to say. ]]> Social Woes Parrothead http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6313 Ideological Martyrs http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6311&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 21:37:49 GMT There's this trend with people who have outdated views to think that they are trying to save the world. Typically, most people reject their views as barbaric, outdated, or even dangerous. Unfortunately, this gives more fuel for those who want to express those views to act like martyrs. They know that their ideas are going to alienate most people, but they are willing to be hated, not because they are nuts, but because they are the only ones willing to stand for "the truth". (what ever that is).

I just want to smack these people. They are so sure of themselves, and so sure that everyone else is too stupid to form their own opinions. While there are cases where unpopular opinions should win over (Martin Luther King), a lot of the time, there's a good reason the pundits views are unpopular. ]]> Things I hate Rageaholic http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6311 <![CDATA[Stop "Glorifying" Single Mothers]]> http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6310&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 18:24:13 GMT http://rightwingnews.com/john-hawkin...ingle-mothers/

Evidently, we're "glorifying" single mothers too much.

The author even says that single parents should live with some shame.

Of course, it's sprinkled with a hint of "Oh, but I love single mothers and want to help them." ]]> Social Woes guywithashovel http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6310 Having to walk on eggshells for being opinionated…. http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6309&goto=newpost Wed, 16 May 2012 17:38:04 GMT One thing about me is that I call it as I see it. Sometimes this is just speaking my mind, other times it’s saying what other people are thinking but are afraid to actually say it.

That said, as an opinionated guy, one thing that I have always hated is having to walk on eggshells due to the fact that what I say might offend someone.

It’s really due to the fact that this day and age has become so politically correct that anytime you speak your mind you’re accused of making a “pot shot” or “cheap shot.”

Lately though, I have been speaking my mind. And as I expected, I got nailed.

Cases in point?

1. On a racing board, someone linked an article about how a man wrote about his less-than-stellar experience at a major drag race. Many people were commenting that many of the article writer’s experiences were due to his own lack of common sense (Getting mad at the bag searches, having to pay for your own transportation, and the prices of the food? Really?). Link to article.

I just simply said this and refused to sugarcoat:

“Man, after reading that article I thought, ‘what a whiny b*tch.’ :rolleyes: Tracks have to make money. It's same with any other sport. I've never been, but I'm sure that football stadiums are just as expensive.”

Of course, one member said, “You have a big mouth.” Another said, “Not everyone obsessively plans out his raceday excursions like you.”

2. Also, on the same board, there was a member who posted how a driver for a prominent race team got screwed. Why? They took his crew chief and moved not only the crew chief but the whole crew to another team that was struggling. The result? Crew chief’s “new” team goes to two final rounds and wins one of them with same driver that was struggling. “Old” team fails to qualify at one race and loses in the 2nd round the next.

People don’t seem to want to blame the common denominator – the new crew chief the owner assigned to the first team that “was screwed.”

I was quick to speak out, and I said this:

“I don't quite ‘get’ why DSR chose (shitty CC). IMO he's like the Norv Turner of NHRA crew chiefs. ____ deserves better.”

Of course, I got these responses: “Maybe you should send (team owner) a PM telling him he doesn't know what he is doing,” and “You don't seem to have the ability to voice your opinion without insulting somebody.”

3. On a glamour modeling site, one of the fellow members said that the models who show less are actually more attractive than the ones that go full-out naked (Keep in mind this is the UK, where boobage is not a big deal and “show less” in the glamour industry often means willing to pose topless but not take off knickers etc).

This is my reply to him:

“I'm sorry if I seem like a dick for saying this, but I too have noticed that the most beautiful women on the site NEVER remove their panties, and if they do they strategically pose to not show anything. Why? Because they don't have to! The less-attractive models almost always get full nude because they feel they have to. Sure some of the models that do full nude are gorgeous, but most simply do not measure up to the models that only pose topless and/or implied.

I'm going to make a car analogy here. Take the new Ford Mustang Vs the Honda Civic. The 'Stang can run 11's in the 1/4 mile with only a few bolt-ons. In order to even think about running anywhere close to that in a Civic you have to put so many modifications on it that it won't even be street legal anymore. Why? Simply put, the Honda cannot measure up to the Mustang and most owners have to go overboard, because they have to. The Mustang looks better, too.”

What happened? These were some of the responses: “That was rather rude,” “I’ll bet money that if you saw one these ‘non-attractive’ models in say a bar you would have no trouble hitting on her,” and “comparing a beautiful woman to a car is a bit stupid” and the too-often-used “you’re being a jerk.”

Now you may be saying, “But you DID make cheap shots and pot shots.” Um, no. It’s called calling it as you see it. There are some times to try to get your point across, you have to “swing the proverbial golf tee,” there’s really no easy way to say it. ;) ]]> Grab Bag HEMI6point1 http://www.fratching.com/showthread.php?t=6309