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  • #16
    You're right, GK, but my point is that it's not that Atheists don't believe in the Christian god, they don't believe in ANY god.
    "Nam castum esse decet pium poetam
    ipsum, versiculos nihil necessest"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DrFaroohk View Post
      But your god could be money, or food, or coke, or American Dad.
      um you may wish to check the definition of "god"

      Originally posted by DrFaroohk View Post
      Honestly I'm all for keeping it out of the pledge, its just sometimes the other people want that come off as royal shit disturbers. They don't care about the flag, the religion, or the constitution. They just learned something in history class and want to flex their political muscles.
      And you know this because you know them personally? Or have they been forced to keep their lack of beliefs quiet out of fear? And "Royal shit disturbers", really? Just because some challenges the "status quo*" does not make them a "shit disturber", unless the people that fought for the end of slavery, women's rights, civil rights, and gay rights are also "shit disturbers". The people that fought hardest to end slavery were white, so since it didn't affect them I guess they shouldn't have bothered.


      *sorry but any minority being oppressed creates a "privileged status" of the oppressors, christians are extremely privileged in the US, and any encroachment on their perceived privileged and more toward everyone being treated the same leads to the cry of "persecution!" Heck saying "happy holidays" to be inclusive of every group that celebrates in december is seen as "persecution", because they're being treated like everyone else.
      Registered rider scenic shore 150 charity ride

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      • #18
        Originally posted by BlaqueKatt View Post
        um you may wish to check the definition of "god"
        just because i love ninjawords:

        god
        noun
        °A deity:.
        °# A supernatural, typically immortal being with superior powers.
        verb
        °to idolize.
        °to deify.
        synonyms: deity

        considering how many people i know that can quote simpsons better than any religious text, i think it can count as idolizing.

        seriously though, anything you worship is your god, be is a shoe or a spirit or the mold in the bathtub.
        All uses of You, You're, and etc are generic unless specified otherwise.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by BlaqueKatt View Post
          um you may wish to check the definition of "god"



          And you know this because you know them personally? Or have they been forced to keep their lack of beliefs quiet out of fear? And "Royal shit disturbers", really? Just because some challenges the "status quo*" does not make them a "shit disturber", unless the people that fought for the end of slavery, women's rights, civil rights, and gay rights are also "shit disturbers". The people that fought hardest to end slavery were white, so since it didn't affect them I guess they shouldn't have bothered.


          *sorry but any minority being oppressed creates a "privileged status" of the oppressors, christians are extremely privileged in the US, and any encroachment on their perceived privileged and more toward everyone being treated the same leads to the cry of "persecution!" Heck saying "happy holidays" to be inclusive of every group that celebrates in december is seen as "persecution", because they're being treated like everyone else.

          I don't have to know someone personally to be able to tell they're being a shit disturber. Now, standing up for what's actually right and defending another person does not equal a shit disturber. Slavery, women's rights, etc...those are actual civil issues.

          Happy holidays? To everyone who ever threw such a shit fit about merry christmas that they got it changed to happy holidays has NO LIFE. They are a shit disturber. It doesn't affect them in any way and doesn't violate anyone else's right, unless you're seriously concerned with your right to not here merry christmas.

          Same as the under god people. It's like 30 whole seconds out of your day that you have to listen to the damn pledge of allegiance. Can anyone honestly say they are offended and feel persecuted because they had to <gasp> hear "under god"?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by DrFaroohk View Post
            Can anyone honestly say they are offended and feel persecuted because they had to <gasp> hear "under god"?
            I'd say they can when they're not merely hearing the pledge but being forced to say it. Like, for example, in school. I don't know for certain as I've been out for 9 years now, but when I graduated high school, the pledge was said every morning and at a good number of school functions. And there were a number of teachers who required you to go through the whole routine, and considered it disrespect and insubordination if you didn't. This was frequently the case from elementary all the way up through my graduation.

            And even beyond that, doesn't it disrespect the citizens of this country who either follow a non-Christian religion, or no religion at all, to always declare this to be "One nation under God"? To me that sounds like we're declaring ourselves to be a Christian nation. No need to give any more fuel to religious fundamentalist politics.
            "The hero is the person who can act mindfully, out of conscience, when others are all conforming, or who can take the moral high road when others are standing by silently, allowing evil deeds to go unchallenged." — Philip Zimbardo
            TUA Games & Fiction // Ponies

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Gravekeeper View Post
              I never really understood the pledge of allegience to begin with though. It seems kinda....what's the word I'm looking for? Indoctrination? Not quite that strong....diet indoctrination?

              Overt nationalism makes me uncomfortable.
              Indoctrination is the right word. Jingoistic indoctrination - "Our country is the best country, rah rah rah. Anyone who believes otherwise is a traitor, rah rah rah."

              There's nothing wrong with swearing fealty to a government or ethos, but you should at least understand the oath, and fully agree with it, before making the pledge. Having children who barely understand the individual words, much less the deeper connotations, reciting it from rote memory is not exactly something to be proud of.

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              • #22
                and I will remind those who are in the younger generation about the "required" Bellamy Salute or "flag salute" that was required when reciting the Pledge until 1942. the main reason they got rid of the Salute (and replaced it with a hand over the heart gesture) was the Nazis and Fascists used a VERY similar salute (You know the famous Heil Hitler salute) in their everyday lives.

                Children pictured here and here performing the Salute.

                The Salute is very similiar to the Heil Hiter salute ie. right arm outstretched, at eye level, and palm up instead of down (although the pics show palm down)
                I'm lost without a paddle and I'm headed up sh*t creek.

                I got one foot on a banana peel and the other in the Twilight Zone.
                The Fools - Life Sucks Then You Die

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                • #23
                  I always hated doing the pledge. After I got into HS, I just stopped saying it. The teachers at that point didn't care. Hell sometimes the school would forget to do the pledge. And even more times, some teachers let us sit there.

                  I can't understand why they make little kids in kindergarten learn it. As someone said, the kids won't understand it. Its borderline "Big Brother is watching you" BS

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                  • #24
                    Exactly how young does the pledge go in school? Because that's pretty farked up if it goes straight down to kindergarten.

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                    • #25
                      I'm pretty sure I was saying the Pledge as early as 1st grade.

                      Nekojin also recalls it from 1st grade on.

                      ^-.-^
                      Faith is about what you do. It's about aspiring to be better and nobler and kinder than you are. It's about making sacrifices for the good of others. - Dresden

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                      • #26
                        I remember having to say the pledge in first grade. I don't remember if it was said in kindergarten or not. Luckily, once I hit middle school, they no longer had that stupid crap at the schools I attended.

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                        • #27
                          we did the Pledge all the way from Kindergarden to 8th grade EACH AND EVERY morning before the start of class back in the mid 60's to mid 70's
                          I'm lost without a paddle and I'm headed up sh*t creek.

                          I got one foot on a banana peel and the other in the Twilight Zone.
                          The Fools - Life Sucks Then You Die

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                          • #28
                            Thats definately kind of scary. -.-

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                            • #29
                              Having to say it every day suggests it kind of wears off.

                              Rapscallion
                              Proud to be a W.A.N.K.E.R. - Womanless And No Kids - Exciting Rubbing!
                              Reclaiming words is fun!

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                              • #30
                                Yep, every day in Kindergarten through 6th grade started off with the Pledge, the Anthem, and the Alma Mater.

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