United Airlines forcibly drags man out of seat; man gets villified by some

[TheHuckster]

So, I'm sure a lot of you are aware of the news of the man who was forcibly removed from a United Airlines flight because it was overbooked and they randomly selected passengers to be removed.

This, of course, caused a ton of hoopla in the news because the SOP for overbooked flights is to just keep raising the rewards for volunteering until enough people take the deal. In this case, however, instead of upping the bid, they just pulled names out of a hat to decide who was going to stay behind. The man in question refused to comply, stating he's a doctor who needs to return home to honor appointments the next day. In response, the airline called police who forcibly took him out of his seat and dragged him off the plane. Had this been in a movie, it'd be comical satire, but as we all know, reality is often the greatest form of satire.

So, it looks like the majority of the public agrees that United Airlines is in the wrong. Judging by the video, the passengers on that flight were among them. They should have sweetened the deal enough so people can choose to give up their paid-for seat. It's United Airlines' overbooking practices that got them into this mess, so the loss of one's seat should not be forced upon someone. As people have pointed out, the practice of overbooking seems to be unique to airlines. Sports venues, busses, and concerts don't do this. I understand the economics of it, but it seems to be a greedy practice that causes a lot of annoyance on popular routes.

However, of course, you have the other side. I've heard people say "the guy didn't follow the rules" and "the guy should have just given up his seat." While it's true that the guy's stubbornness was probably not the best way to handle it, to say that the guy deserved to be assaulted for not giving up a seat he paid for is ridiculous. There were other things United could have done to not let it escalate it to this point. Overbooking policies like this are horrible, and need to be looked at.

And, of course, you've got the people who find that the guy was an ex-con who served time in 2003. So friggen what? Ugh, I don't know why I bother reading comments on the Internet.

[Greenday]

He shouldn't have rushed back onto the plane afterwards. Also not a fan of his weak excuse of the race card.

But United is just plain stupid. The policy is lazy as hell. The lack of giving a crap by United's CEO and PR team is pathetic. They deserve all the hate they are getting.

[wolfie]

Nobody's mentioned it yet, but here's the link to the thread on Customers Suck.

[raw1989]

I have lots to say on this topic but I will leave it for tomorrow when I have type to compile all my thoughts and put it into a longer more put together post since I only have about 40 minutes left.

[EricKei]

Recent updates on the story (Philip De Franco), including identity confusion, United's CEO backpedalling (now saying the flight was NOT oversold, but rather, exactly filled), and Dr. Dao's history/the attendant smear campaign. Whether the latter is in any way relevant to the matter and hand is up to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU5GH4bg9QU

One thing I'm curious about -- perhaps some of you can shed some light on the matter: Under either Avation Law, or United's own policies, do your rights not change (in your favor) once your butt is in the seat?

[mjr]

Sidebar, your honor...This isn't as bad as the dragging incident, but still doesn't make the airline look good.

http://www.latimes.com/business/laza...412-story.html

TL;DR;

A passenger paid $1,000 for a first class ticket. Gets on the plane, and is in his seat. He's told to get off the plane because apparently a "higher priority" passenger showed up at the last minute. Stands his ground. He alleges that he was told he'd be put in handcuffs if they needed to.

The "compromise" is that he was downgraded, and had to sit in the middle seat between a married couple that was in the midst of a heated fight and argued the whole flight.

[s_stabeler]

Assuming the flight was oversold, there does come a point at which they would have to say "We're sorry, but you've been bumped from the flight"- in that regard, then they did nothing wrong by bumping him (yes, he needed to get home. However, "needing to get home to honour appointments", unless those appointments were emergencies, generally is the equivalent if missing a day's work- an inconvenience, but someone would need to suffer said inconvenience, and it's assumed that if you could delay by an extra day, you'd already have volunteered. As such, he had no particular special reason to demand that someone else be bumped instead.) Further, calling security when he continued to refuse was probably the right call- however, he probably shouldn't have been wrenched out of his seat. I'm somewhat skeptical we have the entire story, however, as it sounds more like what would eventually happen if he continued to refuse even when security say he has to get off. I'd have thought it'd be more likely he continued to refuse until physically removing him was the only option.

However, in regards overbooked fights: it's a bit more complicated than "airlines are greedy, and sell too many tickets to earn more money"- it started because a certain % would miss checkin, then be rebooked on later flights at no extra cost (these days it varies) so, they sell more tickets under the theory that the number that actually turn up will match the capacity of the plane. People get bumped when they overestimated the percentage of people that would miss their flight. I happen to agree that some airlines really shouldn't overbook ( as a rule of thumb, if you can rebook a missed flight or get a refund, overbooking's fine. If not, then the airline shouldn't overbook.)

Oh, and the reason sports venues and concerts don't overbook is that there's no real way to compensate "bumped" ticketholders. Hotels, for example, certainly do overbook.

[EricKei]

s_s : On the overbooking thing -- Absolutely correct However, one of the CEO's most recent claims is that it wasn't overbooked, but that the tickets were sold out exactly (e.g. 100 seats, 100 tix sold), and (apparently) they all showed up.

Normally, tho, bumping happens BEFORE you are allowed onto the plane, not after. As I mentioned before, it seems to become more complicated once your ass is in the seat.

edit1: Dr. D has officially lawyered up. http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/travel...ttorney-speak/

edit2: It seems the "confusion" with a different Dr David Dao was from only a single source (read: utter bullshit/clickbait)

[HYHYBT]

If the flight wasn't overbooked, there was no reason to leave anyone behind.

If the airline needed seats for another crew, there were effectively that many fewer available for sale. If they sold them anyway, they were overbooked in every sense that matters.

[EricKei]

From what I've gathered, the 4 "standby" crewmembers were added at the 11th hour, long after every seat/ticket had been sold.

[Ree]

Many people are still overlooking the fact that this man did originally volunteer to give up his seat. There is an eyewitness account that verifies it.
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/04...ake-tapper.cnn
It was only after he found out that the next flight wasn't for another 24 hours that he said it wouldn't work for him because he was a doctor with patients to see the next day.
That was when the airline just coincidentally and conveniently pulled his name out of a hat and volunteered him on their own anyway.
Shit move by them, since he had already explained why he couldn't take a later flight.

I don't care what the guy's past is, nobody deserves to be pulled from a seat and treated that way. In the video, someone who I assumed to be one of the three cops cautions the third cop to be careful saying, "Come on. You busted his lip." (But it could have been a passenger.)
Yes, he was defiant and said they would have to drag him off, but I really don't think he ever expected that they would actually do that. I mean, seriously, who would ever expect that a man who is minding his own business and not actually posing any kind of threat would be physically dragged from his seat and roughed up?
No, he probably should not have run back on the plane either, but in watching the videos that have been posted, there was really something off about his behaviour at that point. He seemed very agitated and confused and almost delusional, and I have to wonder if he had been hit in the head or had been handled rough enough to have banged his head. It has come out that he suffered a concussion. I wonder if that had something to do with it.

[taxguykarl]

Another update of sorts.
Two missing teeth, a broken nose and a concussion

[mjr]

Another update of sorts.
Two missing teeth, a broken nose and a concussion

So what are the tax implications to winning a lawsuit and owning an airline??

That's kinda where this seems headed...

Because it's looking like United is going to have to offer this guy a LARGE sum of money for him to settle out of court. There's even talk of Congressional investigations now.

[EricKei]

On the lighter side...what I can only assume is Bloom County's take on the situation.

[TheHuckster]

He shouldn't have rushed back onto the plane afterwards. Also not a fan of his weak excuse of the race card.

But United is just plain stupid. The policy is lazy as hell. The lack of giving a crap by United's CEO and PR team is pathetic. They deserve all the hate they are getting.

Agreed on both counts.

Assuming the flight was oversold, there does come a point at which they would have to say "We're sorry, but you've been bumped from the flight"- in that regard, then they did nothing wrong by bumping him

Even if he legitimately paid for the seat?

However, in regards overbooked fights: it's a bit more complicated than "airlines are greedy, and sell too many tickets to earn more money"- it started because a certain % would miss checkin, then be rebooked on later flights at no extra cost (these days it varies) so, they sell more tickets under the theory that the number that actually turn up will match the capacity of the plane.

I get the concept. What I don't get is, let's say a certain % does miss their flight and gets rebooked on a later flight. Assuming that next flight was oversold just as much, doesn't that just exacerbate the problem? You overbook one flight by 1%, and 1% indeed misses their flight. Great, you did the forecast correctly. Now the next flight, which is also 1% oversold doesn't have people missing their flights. Oops, now you're 2% over. I mean, seriously, wtf?

When a flight is overbooked, it causes a domino effect. First, you're going to have people pissed that the flight's delayed until they figure out the situation. That makes delays hard to make up. You delay a flight, which delays that airplane's next flight, and so forth. It's just wrong on so many levels. And when flights already get delayed for reasonable/unavoidable reasons, such as weather, maintenance, etc., it seems ridiculous to me to add another avoidable reason to get delayed.