The Doonesbury "Say What?" thread

[lordlundar]

"The climate is changing. I don't think the science is clear on what percentage is man-made and what percentage is natural. It's convoluted. And for the people to say the science is decided on this is just really arrogant, to be honest with you. It's this intellectual arrogance that now you can't have a conversation about it even."
-- Jeb Bush

"Just generally I think as conservatives we should embrace innovation, embrace technology, embrace science. Sometimes I sense that we pull back from the embrace of these things. We shouldn't."
-- Jeb Bush

Fascinating. I never thought I'd actually see someone who is a personal case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

[KabeRinnaul]

[I]Fascinating. I never thought I'd actually see someone who is a personal case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.

I sometimes suspect Jeb is only staying in the spotlight as a favor to his brother, to convince the world that George isn't the dumb one.

[s_stabeler]

when in truth, it's looking like George is simply not the dumbest one. ( which is not a compliment to either of them)

[lordlundar]

"It's harder to write fiction than nonfiction. Fiction has to make sense."
—

Tom Clancy

You know, this explains a lot.

[Andara Bledin]

"It's harder to write fiction than nonfiction. Fiction has to make sense."
—

Tom Clancy

You know, this explains a lot.

I remember when this quote used to be attributed to Mark Twain...

[lordlundar]

"I'm not inferring... that this accident happened because [Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostian] was gay, but I do think it's an interesting part of the story... When people are going through some confusion that has to do with the very core of who they are... I think it's something to be discussed and I think it's a factor, and I'm doubting you'll hear it anywhere else."
—

Sandy Rios, radio host and American Family Association director

[Anthony K. S.]

"It's harder to write fiction than nonfiction. Fiction has to make sense." — Tom Clancy

I always find it interesting how people expect fiction to make sense in ways that the real world actually doesn't.

There was a Retail comic strip that depicted a customer returning an item that he received as a gift, with the receipt.

In the "Comments" section, there was a lengthy discussion of why a customer would have the original receipt if it was a gift, whether or not it could have been a gift receipt, etc. Some people pointed out, however, that whether or not it was "logical" for a customer to have the original receipt for a gift, the fact is that in real life, it happens all the time.

In this strip, Marla is annoyed by somebody calling after closing time, and then asking why Marla was answering the phone if the store was closed.

Some commentors asked why Marla would be answering the phone if the store was closed. It had to be explained that Marla had to answer the phone because it could have been a family member wanting to talk to an employee, the District Manager or somebody else from Corporate, an employee wanting to talk to the manager, etc.

Even after all of this was explained, though, some people still insisted that the strip was "unrealistic." They argued that a company the size of Grumbel's should have a "backdoor" number, known only to employees of the company, for any employee or the Corporate office to call after hours. They also said that if it was a personal call, "Wouldn't they just call the employee's cell phone?"

The other commentors explained that in real life, many companies, including large ones, do not, in fact, have such "backdoor" numbers, so it was kind of ... well, silly ... to argue that it was "unrealistic" for Grumbel's not to. As for calling the employee's cell phone, one commentor pointed out that employees are often forbidden to carry cell phones while working ...

… Or, how about this?

Some people don’t own cell phones.

I always find it interesting when the simplest explanation for something is the one that people don’t think of.

The ABC show What Would You Do? was sometimes criticized for creating "unrealistic" scenarios.

For example, in one scenario, set in a bridal shop, a young bride is thrilled that she has finally found the perfect wedding dress, only to have the moment shattered when the homophobic salesperson refuses to sell it to her because the bride is a lesbian. The bride and salesperson were, of course, both actors, and the entire scene was staged, to see how other customers would react. Several customers who witnessed this homophobia were appalled and spoke up in defense of the bride.

The reactions to this episode included, of course, all of the usual homophobic B.S. about how same-sex relationships are morally wrong, how they're not "real marriages," and how businesses should have every right to refuse service to gays and lesbians. For the most part, nothing noteworthy ...

However, there was one person who asked, "How could anybody believe that this was real?" This commentor argued that it simply wasn't realistic for a salesperson to deprive herself of a sale in this manner, and, therefore, the people who witnessed this should have known that it was fake.

In response, another commentor pointed out that this actually happens in real life :

There have been cases in the news about :

Restaurants refusing to cater same-sex weddings.
Bakeries refusing to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples.
A farm in New York that rented out space for weddings, but refused to do so for a same-sex wedding.
A Bed-and-Breakfast in the United Kingdom that refused to give a room to a same-sex couple. There were similar cases with inns in Hawaii, Illinois, and Vermont.
Photographers in New Mexico who declined to photograph a same-sex couple's commitment ceremony.
A florist in Washington who refused to provide flowers for a same-sex couple's wedding.
A banquet hall in Texas that refused to rent their space out to a same-sex couple's wedding reception.
And more ...

In some cases, businesses actually stopped accommodating weddings altogether rather than accommodate same-sex weddings.

Seriously, given the choice between (1) taking money from both straight and gay couples, and (2) not taking money from anybody, these people would rather go with Option 2.

It happens, in real life, all the time. How much more "realistic" does it have to be?

(The show also did a scenario set in a bakery, in which a lesbian couple is refused a wedding cake. Just like in the bridal shop scenario, the other customers were, for the most part, not impressed with the baker's homophobic behavior.)

I found it amazing, sometimes, how the audience expected the scenarios to make sense in ways that the real world doesn't at all.


My friend Lindsay wrote an interesting post about a short film, made in 2011, titled Love Is All You Need?, which is being made into a feature-length film this year.

The film depicts a "reversed" world where same-sex relationships are the norm and heterosexual relationships are viewed as abnormal and unnatural. It also has some interesting reversals of gender roles, such as female clergy, football being considered a girls' sport, and a wedding with a flower boy and a female ringbearer.

In one scene, a preacher tells her congregation that, "It is a sin for a man to lust after a woman. It is an abomination for a woman to lie with a man outside of the breeding season."

My reaction to this :

Okay, somebody has to say it. "Breeding season" ... ? Do people get issued pedigrees, too?

Lindsay gave me a really sideways look, and said, "Right, because everything that goes on in the real world makes so much more sense." She also reminded me that that wasn't really the point of the film.

I had to concede both points. Also, I, too, was dismayed (though not surprised) that so many people who saw the film dismissed it out of hand by quibbling that it wouldn't be possible for the human race to reproduce and survive if heterosexuality was forbidden ... thereby completely missing the actual message of the film.

There are many more examples of this. It is the ultimate irony that fictional works are held to a higher standard of "realism" than the actual real world is.

[TheHuckster]

There's an entire TV Trope and sub-tropes devoted to just this subject.

[wolfie]

Even after all of this was explained, though, some people still insisted that the strip was "unrealistic." They argued that a company the size of Grumbel's should have a "backdoor" number, known only to employees of the company, for any employee or the Corporate office to call after hours.

My understanding is that retail has a high turnover. If there were a "backdoor" number, the turnover would mean that the number would soon be known by FORMER employees (after all, corporate can't "brainwipe" people when they leave). How long before one such person tells a friend "After hours, you can still get through to them at this number"? Word would spread through the SC "grapevine", and the number would be an alternate entrance rather than a "backdoor".

[lordlundar]

"I'm trying to preserve an endangered culture -- the American culture -- and it is being overwhelmed by 30 million illegal and legal immigrants being dumped on this country from peasant cultures... If you don't want to be killed by ISIS, don't go to Syria. If you don't want to be killed by a Mexican, there's nothing I can tell you."
—

Ann Coulter

If she's an example of "American Culture", then it's not worth preserving.

[Tama]

Peasant....culture...

So that Statue of Liberty's "give me your tired, your poor..."...is now meaningless?

[Lindsay B.]

I sometimes suspect Jeb is only staying in the spotlight as a favor to his brother, to convince the world that George isn't the dumb one.

A while back, when people were talking up the possibility of Jeb Bush running for President, some folks expressed concern that it might just wind up being a repeat of his brother's time in office. In response, there was a woman, who was a conservative Republican and a supporter of Jeb Bush, who adamantly insisted that "Jeb Bush is nothing like George W. Bush."

... Now, you do realize that, by saying that Jeb Bush was nothing like his brother, this woman was, intentionally or not, essentially saying that there was nothing about George W. Bush that was good. But, setting that aside ...

I vaguely remember reading an article, a few months ago, that indicated that Jeb Bush might be friendly to the concerns of the LGBT community. That actually gave me a little hope that he might be worth a look as a candidate.

... and then reality came crashing down :

Using the Washington florist who was sanctioned for refusing services to a gay customer as an example, Bush explained, "A big country, a tolerant country ought to be able to figure out the difference between discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation, and not forcing someone to participate in a wedding that they find goes against their moral beliefs."

First of all, as many people have tried (without success) to explain to those who think like Jeb Bush does :

You can't ask people to be tolerant of your intolerance. That's not how it works.

Second, Jeb Bush was essentially making that same tiresome argument : We're not trying to legalize discrimination, we're trying to protect religious freedom. But freedom to do what, exactly? To refuse services to gays and lesbians ... How exactly is that different from legalizing discrimination?

It's not. This is a good example of a distinction without a difference. It's no wonder that after Indiana revised their "religious freedom" law to explicitly say that it could not be used as a legal defense to charges of discrimination in refusing to provide services, goods, facilities, or accommodations ... Some observers were left scratching their heads and wondering, "So what exactly does this legislation do, then?" and others bluntly replied, "Nothing."

"I'm not inferring... that this accident happened because [Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostian] was gay, but I do think it's an interesting part of the story... When people are going through some confusion that has to do with the very core of who they are... I think it's something to be discussed and I think it's a factor, and I'm doubting you'll hear it anywhere else." — Sandy Rios, radio host and American Family Association director[/I]

... You know what they say :

Any country that has the word "Democratic" in its name is probably not a democracy.

Any organization that has the word "Marriage" or "Family" in its name is very likely to be made up of crazy people.


And as for Ann Coulter ... Wait, why are we even listening to her?

[lordlundar]

And as for Ann Coulter ... Wait, why are we even listening to her?

Have to record the crazy for posterity I guess.

"We have a president who has no clue what he is doing. I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table, or beyond that defeat ISIS. It is a foolproof way of winning. They'll be defeated very quickly. And I'm not going to tell you what it is tonight."
—

Donald Trump

This sounds very much like Romney's economic plan announcement. In other words "I have a plan, it is a very good plan and it will work perfectly (now THERE'S a case of taunting Murphy if I've ever heard it) but you won't know about it unless you agree to let me execute it."

[lordlundar]

"My family owned a restaurant, a pool room, and a liquor store. And everything I know about the Iranians I learned in the pool room. I ran the pool room when I was a kid and I met a lot of liars. And I know the Iranians are lying."
—

Sen. Lindsey Graham

This seems to be how a lot of politicians got their foreign relations experience.

[Racket_Man]

"My family owned a restaurant, a pool room, and a liquor store. And everything I know about the Iranians I learned in the pool room. I ran the pool room when I was a kid and I met a lot of liars. And I know the Iranians are lying."
—

Sen. Lindsey Graham

This seems to be how a lot of politicians got their foreign relations experience.

The Governor of my state (an ALMOST Pres. candidate and pick your deity help os if he actually does run) seem to think that just visiting another country for a day or two makes him appear to have foreign policy knowledge.