Community payback jackets

[Boozy]

I asked my husband about the deterrent efect of these jackets. He has a degree in criminology/psychology, so I figured he might have covered this in school to some extent.

Anyway, here's his take: Most criminology studies indicate that public humiliation does not generally have a future deterrent effect on those who are experiencing it. However, it absolutely has a deterrent effect on those who are witnessing it... providing it is done correctly. It's important for witnesses to understand the nature of the person's crime.

For example, let's say I drive by a bunch of people in these community payback jackets picking garbage off the side of the road. I assume that they are there because of drug or prostitution charges, since their jackets don't indicate either way. I think they're a sorry bunch of suckers, then toss my coffee cup out the window and park beside a fire hydrant. However, if their jackets clearly indicated that they were there for littering asnd parking illegally, I probably wouldn't have done those things.

(I'm a real bitch in my example, but I wouldn't really do those things. )

So there can be a deterrent effect, especially when it comes to the drunk driving plates. Personally I still can't stomach the idea. Deterrence is only one variable when creating a system of justice. Cutting off people's hands for shoplifting would also have a deterrent effect, but it's savage.

[Flyndaran]

Possibly an 'apples-to-oranges' comparison, but what do you all think of the special plates that DUI offenders have to have in certain states?

Some of us refer to them as 'party plates' here in Ohio.

I would rather that they not be allowed to drive at all or at least until they prove that they have successfully stopped drinking.
As a provision of parole I accept some restrictions, but after that, then no, I don't like such labels.

[Peppergirl]

Possibly an 'apples-to-oranges' comparison, but what do you all think of the special plates that DUI offenders have to have in certain states?

Some of us refer to them as 'party plates' here in Ohio.

[Flyndaran]

...
Flyn, while such a punishment (and let's not forget that this is what it is - a punishment... not a picnic) may not be good for you, the same can be said for virtually any form of judgements... nothing works 100% of the time for 100% of the population.

Yeah, I was afraid that my intrerpretation might be too far off the beaten path of viewpoints. My near agoraphobia would also prevent me from breaking such laws in the first place.
Maybe it's also my instinctive distaste for authority that's making me overly critical.

[Slytovhand]

I'd like to ditto what Lace said... it's another form of punishment, which is put in place as a deterrent. Fines?? Meh, often people don't really care (either, they don't pay them, or they do and whinge and whine and say it's 'wrong'... and don't actually address the behaviour in the first place).

Greenday, I don't see how doing community service is suddenly (or slowly... but let's hope not!) instill in the offender the love of society to the extent that they'll see the light and become all good and recalcitrant.

Some years ago, I did community service (cop reckons I ran a stop sign.. I disagreed, went to court, lost note to self: never use the term 'think'... use the term 'know'.. it dispels any possible doubt in the magistrate's mind!) The place I did community service was a volunteer centre which had a lot of service-workers... some even showed up! Bright orange jacket?? Why not? That's what I was there for... so, may as well be honest. Would any there think less of me for it? Probably not... after all, this was a centre for people who were doing it tough.

Not that I read it, but does it anywhere indicate that this is intended as a first time punishment? Or for what sort of 'crimes'? Drunk driving was mentioned... personally - great! They need to be shamed and humiliated!!! (but, that's actually beside the point..).

Flyn, while such a punishment (and let's not forget that this is what it is - a punishment... not a picnic) may not be good for you, the same can be said for virtually any form of judgements... nothing works 100% of the time for 100% of the population.

[Flyndaran]

Actually, you're right about it being wrong word choice, since I don't think criminals are "less human" or anything like that. It was just the first word that sprang to finger.

I thought as much, but I've been proven wrong so often when assuming..

[BroomJockey]

Other than your use of lower,

Actually, you're right about it being wrong word choice, since I don't think criminals are "less human" or anything like that. It was just the first word that sprang to finger.

[Flyndaran]

I double-checked the article to be sure, but it doesn't say anywhere on it what crimes have been committed. As for "offender," uniforms are coded to make status levels apparent at a glance. You can tell manager from register jockey. You even have different departments. It's showing your place in the hierarchy of the organization, emblazoned large over your chest. That's what these jackets do, as well. They show someone's place in the hierarchy of the community. And just like a work uniform, you take it off when you're going home. And there is a hierarchy. Until you've paid your debt as handed down by a judge, you're restricted of certain rights and freedoms. That places you lower than someone currently enjoying unfettered rights and freedoms. It's the basic premise of the criminal justice system, otherwise you'd not be able to imprison someone as punishment.

Other than your use of lower which I don't like as sounding too much like a moral judgement, I'm okay with what you wrote.

[BroomJockey]

A uniform is not required to have offender or specific crime listed to be a uniform.

I double-checked the article to be sure, but it doesn't say anywhere on it what crimes have been committed. As for "offender," uniforms are coded to make status levels apparent at a glance. You can tell manager from register jockey. You even have different departments. It's showing your place in the hierarchy of the organization, emblazoned large over your chest. That's what these jackets do, as well. They show someone's place in the hierarchy of the community. And just like a work uniform, you take it off when you're going home. And there is a hierarchy. Until you've paid your debt as handed down by a judge, you're restricted of certain rights and freedoms. That places you lower than someone currently enjoying unfettered rights and freedoms. It's the basic premise of the criminal justice system, otherwise you'd not be able to imprison someone as punishment.

[Flyndaran]

Again, you say "mind game," I say "uniform."

A uniform is not required to have offender or specific crime listed to be a uniform. A simple orange colored jumpsuit is sufficient with maybe a property of specific police department in small letters.

[BroomJockey]

They aren't paid to play mind games.

Again, you say "mind game," I say "uniform."

[Flyndaran]

Speaking as someone with severe anxiety and social phobia, this kind of punishment would NOT have the effect intended.
It would be so grossly unfair as to make me so humiliated as to want to enact revenge against those that did it. It sure as hell wouldn't make me think about my actions. It would have the same effect that torturing me as suspected terrorist would, ie. the exact opposite.

Well, I'm not normal you might say. Yes, I'm not, but I don't think the normal punishments would need as much scrutiny for unfair persecution. I don't think judges should also be experts at psychology. Right now, they sure as heck aren't. They aren't paid to play mind games.

[tabbyblack13]

I have no problem with these people wearing the "offender" vests. Its something they should think about before they behave in a way that might get them arrested. Sometimes humiliation is the perfect punishment for a person. A rich person doesn't care about the extra money a ticket will cost them but if someone sees them with that jacket on they will think twice about doing it again.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Most of these people know about what's in store for them if they break the law, tho. It would be like breaking the speed limit and then whining about how the fine you have to pay, plus the licience penalty points, is degrading. Or even about the article in the paper after the court case where your antisocial behaviour is described. You did the crime, so just suck it up; and be thankful that you're not wearing prison uniform.

[Flyndaran]

It seems like people are arguing about separate issues.
Uniforms vs. "humilation jackets", and dangerous criminals vs. minor offense criminals.