euthanasia -- yay or nay

[Mytical]

The people who make the laws have never had to deal with pain that either will not go away or requires medicine so strong that all that is left is a mindless zombie. They don't have a clue what it is like. "Oh they are sleeping peacefully, in no pain." you know this HOW exactly?? Of course I don't know if they are suffering or not..but they said "If this happens I want to be let go." that is good enough for me.

[aurelemsrealm]

I think euthanasia should be an option for someone who is terminally ill or suffering with no chance of recovery. I think people should be allowed to die with dignity. I think people should be allowed to make those decisions for themselves.

[Andara Bledin]

If this comes about I'll never be able to sleep again.

Why not?

^-.-^

[Tanasi]

If this comes about I'll never be able to sleep again.

[hatori]

I was going to make a topic because of this thread, but since I found this I'll just post here.

I don't think euthanasia should be done for lots of things, but I know that personally, if it's a slow deteriorating condition like Alzheimer's I'd want to die quickly. My mother's also requested that we never let her get like the end-stage patients either.

[Ipecac Drano]

So long as, regardless of what they have signed, if they indicate that they've changed their mind and want to live, that too is respected.

Well, yeah...

[HYHYBT]

One should be able to declare beforehand in writing under which circumstances their life should be terminated. Copies of this document should be left with an attorney and with a designated family member or friend.

So long as, regardless of what they have signed, if they indicate that they've changed their mind and want to live, that too is respected.

[tropicsgoddess]

One should be able to declare beforehand in writing under which circumstances their life should be terminated. Copies of this document should be left with an attorney and with a designated family member or friend.

Should the health care facility and/or the patient determine that termination should commence, the attorney as well as the designated person should be notified immediately.

Agreed. It's sad when people are forced to languish through all the suffering and pains of terminal illness and nobody should be forced to go through that. I think that if somebody wants to end their suffering, they should be able to have the right and the means to do so. If euthanasia were legal, I hope that having it done only under the written and express wishes of the person would keep people from using euthanasia as a cover up for nefarious purposes.

[Andara Bledin]

I am for it, myself, although not to quite the degree as Lachrymose.

I'm a proponent of quality of life over quantity of life.

^-.-^

[telecom_goddess]

I am all for it as well.

I have a friend who works in a nursing home. The whole concept makes no sense to me... If my dawg gets sick and can't be cured I put him to sleep but if my granny gets sick and can't be cured we feed her through a tube let her lay there in agony every day for years. So many of the people there haven't been aware of themselves for years yet they do everything they can to keep them alive. I hope that if I ever get in that shape someone has the decency to take me out behind the wood shed and shoot me.

My sentiments exactly. Why are we so willing to put pets out of their misery but not humans? in fact it's worse because we do have intelligence and can feel the pain of a life like that even more than an animal.

[Imprl59]

I am all for it as well.

I have a friend who works in a nursing home. The whole concept makes no sense to me... If my dawg gets sick and can't be cured I put him to sleep but if my granny gets sick and can't be cured we feed her through a tube let her lay there in agony every day for years. So many of the people there haven't been aware of themselves for years yet they do everything they can to keep them alive. I hope that if I ever get in that shape someone has the decency to take me out behind the wood shed and shoot me.

[girlinaz]

I'm all for it. As a nurse, I have seen so many patients whose families could not let them go, although the patients themselves were ready.

[Lachrymose]

I'll extend it even further and say that we should have the option to die at any time we want regardless of the circumstances.

Total control of our own lives.

Yes, that would possibly upset family, etc. but you would have to personally take that into account.

[Racket_Man]

My family is sure that my grandfather was quietly euthanised. He was in a hospital, unconscious from - oh, I forget. A stroke, I think. One of those 'death by old age' conditions.
Everyone who wanted to come up to see him did. We grandchild-generation saw him one night, and agreed to let his daughters see him alone the next morning, intending to see him again that afternoon if he was still around.

The daughters went in to see him, then came out in tears and went to comfort each other. The doctor went in, came out shortly after, sent a nurse in, and the nurse quietly went to my mother and her sisters and told them he was dead.

There was no hope of recovery, and the doctor (if we're right) chose to spare us the possibility of his living-corpse lingering on for days or weeks on end. Let everyone say their goodbyes, then pull the plug.

that is what happened with my Dad. he had collapased (congestive haeart failure) on the kitchen floor while my Mom was in the basment. she was down there for like 5 - 10 minutes before finding him lying on the floor. the EMTs got there FAST (within 5 minutes) but his heart had not been really beating for most of that time. they rushed him to the hospital and immediately put him on life support.

the state in which they lived had certain legal/time requirements and tests that had to be performed before the Dr's could pronounce him "brain dead" such things as 2 EEG test 48 hours apart and the life support was really the only thing keeping his body functioning. all of the test said he was braindead

at least it gave all of us (siblings and grandchildren) time to get there to say goodbye. all of the legal requirements were fufilled and Mom, who had all of the legal documents had the life support removed.

strange but we all were there in the room when everything slowed and stopped.

[Seshat]

I want to extend euthanasia beyond the brain-dead-body-functioning situation. Here's my (rough) guidelines:

* chronic loss of 'joy in life', with no realistic prognosis of improvement.

This can mean anything from the paranoid schizophrenic whose existance is a nightmare of delusions of being chased and attacked;
to a person whose mind is alive but their body is no longer functional, they've lost their most valuable senses, and they're stuck in a nursing home with the only 'bright' spot in their day being when they become aware of someone touching them, so they're no longer alone.

Yes, these must be extreme cases. Someone like me is not a candidate - if nothing else, you can stick me in said nursing home and run DVDs of classical music for me, and I can lose myself in that. Joy in life. (Besides, I have a prognosis of improvement.)


* severe chronic pain, with no realistic prognosis of improvement, and the available joy in life is insufficient to provide suitable distraction from the pain.

Most of these cases are going to be end stage cancer patients, some will have suffered severe and multiple spinal trauma, some will have other VERY nasty conditions. The pain will ideally be objectively verified - we don't yet have the technology to do it reliably, but I've heard of a couple of experimental units that provide non-invasive objective pain level verification.

If you need palliative levels of painkiller just to be able to listen to Mozart without writhing and screaming, you're a candidate. Palliative levels of painkiller will (usually) addict you, and just might kill you anyway.




My family is sure that my grandfather was quietly euthanised. He was in a hospital, unconscious from - oh, I forget. A stroke, I think. One of those 'death by old age' conditions.
Everyone who wanted to come up to see him did. We grandchild-generation saw him one night, and agreed to let his daughters see him alone the next morning, intending to see him again that afternoon if he was still around.

The daughters went in to see him, then came out in tears and went to comfort each other. The doctor went in, came out shortly after, sent a nurse in, and the nurse quietly went to my mother and her sisters and told them he was dead.

There was no hope of recovery, and the doctor (if we're right) chose to spare us the possibility of his living-corpse lingering on for days or weeks on end. Let everyone say their goodbyes, then pull the plug.




Now... as for the problem of the misuse of euthanasia: that's a very, very tough one. I know when I'd use it, and it's very clear to me which cases are clear 'go for it', and which are clear 'don't', and where the grey blurry area is.

I think we'd probably have to use the system we do now for some types of edge case - use magistrates as advocates for the person-who-cannot-help-themselves. A magistrate or assistant speaks to (or tries to communicate with) the patient, then the family comes to the magistrate to make their case. The magistrate then makes a ruling. I think this would come under Family Court, at least in Aussieland.

Where the patient themselves is both mentally capable of making a decision and capable of communicating it (even if they need assistive technology to do so), simply having an authorised witness present as a court representative, and having them look for signs of coercion or duress, should do the job. (If they see any coercion or duress, they dump the situation neatly into the police' lap as a potential case of attempted murder.)