Victim blaming vs advice

[HYHYBT]

Unless it absolutely NEVER happens that, for whatever reason, someone who consented to sex later decides to call it rape, it's not a myth that it happens. The only question would be about the frequency.

[BlaqueKatt]

This apparent trend at US colleges I've been reading about, where (mostly female) students file rape claims against (mostly male) students they've drunkenly hooked up with, is rather disturbing to me. Especially considering colleges can expell students rather quickly under such allegations.

THAT IS A MYTH, PLEASE STOP PERPETUATING IT!
(it's very close to being classified as rape apologetics at this point, as it's been refuted for years as being patently FALSE, yet every.single.time. a conversation on rape happens it comes up)



That IS NOT what's happening. That's why we're having title IX lawsuits all over the place. The colleges are doing nothing. We have Fraternities using color coded hand stamps to drug pretty girls, predators plying women with alcohol*, and colleges saying "it's your word against his so we WON'T do ANYTHING"

The "false report from a drunken hookup" is a myth used to silence victims.

This article has a good inforgraphic that should shed some light on rape statistics including false reports.

False rape reports are no higher than that of any other crime, and statistically only 3% of rapists spend even a single day in jail, around 90% of assault victims never report it.

it's actually on almost every rape myth list you can dig up(usually in the top ten)
Heck here's one solely about that particular damaging myth
And a full article on how perpetuating the myth damages victims


*some are doubting the article because "gang rapes don't happen at good colleges" yet this article lists seven separate accounts

[Lace Neil Singer]

Yeah, if both parties were drunk and there was no coercion involved, or a case where one person got the other drunk to have sex, then are both rapists? If the woman's sober and the man's drunk, then technically, the woman's a rapist... but somehow I don't see a report going very far.

[Canarr]

Back to the topic, that article always reminds me of people who say "Well, that wasn't real rape" when reading about a person who was raped while excessively drunk. I'm sorry, I thought that the definition of rape was a person forced into sex. A person who's drunk either can't consent, or is powerless to stop an assailant, so still rape.

Yeah, sorry for the OT; I just needed to share that... article... with someone.

I'm with you there... up until a certain point. No question: someone deliberately getting another person drunk, or otherwise impaired, in order to have sex with them, is a rapist. Same goes for someone deliberately taking advantage of another person already being inebriated, without contributing to their state themselves.

the only time i've seen this used validly is when both parties were drunk beyond consent. because, at that point, who can you identify was the rapist? we can't just assume it was the man because he has a penis.

And here's my "certain point". If two people get drunk together, then have sex together, it's not rape. If two minors have sex together, it's not statutory rape, either (under German law, at least). This apparent trend at US colleges I've been reading about, where (mostly female) students file rape claims against (mostly male) students they've drunkenly hooked up with, is rather disturbing to me. Especially considering colleges can expell students rather quickly under such allegations.

[siead_lietrathua]

Back to the topic, that article always reminds me of people who say "Well, that wasn't real rape" when reading about a person who was raped while excessively drunk.

the only time i've seen this used validly is when both parties were drunk beyond consent. because, at that point, who can you identify was the rapist? we can't just assume it was the man because he has a penis.

[Lace Neil Singer]

She's as crazy as the idiot who came up with the idea of "legitimate rape".
http://time.com/3001785/todd-akin-le...child-of-rape/

Want to have sex and not get pregnant? Just make sure that you're legitimately raped.

Back to the topic, that article always reminds me of people who say "Well, that wasn't real rape" when reading about a person who was raped while excessively drunk. I'm sorry, I thought that the definition of rape was a person forced into sex. A person who's drunk either can't consent, or is powerless to stop an assailant, so still rape.

[KabeRinnaul]

It's impressive how this person seems to have never had good sex even once in her life. And also ignores homosexuality entirely in her quest to paint all men as members of an oppressive rape-driven woman-hating patriarchy.

[TheHuckster]

I tried to follow the logic, but gave up quickly. It hurts. It really, really hurts. How on Earth an (apparently) intelligent, educated person can put forth... this... as a reasonable theory is completely beyond me. It doesn't make sense. At all.

Doubly so that in (AFAIK) every mammal does it this way. Nature intended the penis to enter the vagina for procreation. You don't even see primates jacking off and then rubbing their ejaculate onto a female's vagina.

'shaking her like he would stuff a corpse, then using her insides as a receptacle for his penile dejection.'

This sounds like something one of Phil Hendrie's "guests" would say.

[NecCat]

I didn't finish the article Canarr linked but this:

'Whether she thinks she wants it or not'

and this:

'The only reason we may now not feel raped or have the impression we desired or initiated PIV, is because men broke down our barriers very skillfully and progressively from birth, breaking down our natural defences to pain and invasion, our confidence in our own perceptions and sensations of fear and disgust that tell us male sexual invasion is painful, harmful and traumatic.'

Thoroughly pissed me off. What I understood from that is that, because I am a woman, I am unable to make an intelligent decision about whether or not I want to have sex, because I am so feeble-minded that I can be brainwashed by men into agreeing to something even though I don't really like it, even though I think I do? Because my feelings are wrong, which I am too dumb to figure out? Talk about the dehumanization and oppression of women.

Although this tickled me:

'shaking her like he would stuff a corpse, then using her insides as a receptacle for his penile dejection.'

Who stuffs a corpse? Who shakes one while they are stuffing it? What the hell is a penile dejection? Is his penis sad, is ejaculate really tears of the dejected penis?

[Canarr]

I like how she claims PIV is not natural because it's painful, yet pregnancy and childbirth is natural because that's what the vagina's purpose is... nevermind for the vast majority of women, childbirth is far more painful than intercourse... at least if you're doing it right.

I tried to follow the logic, but gave up quickly. It hurts. It really, really hurts. How on Earth an (apparently) intelligent, educated person can put forth... this... as a reasonable theory is completely beyond me. It doesn't make sense. At all.

[TheHuckster]

(From Canarr's link)

"The reason we have a vagina is because if we are pregnant, the baby can come out. It’s the physical function of the vagina. There is no other way for the baby to come out than through the vagina, that’s the way it is, it’s natural. Biology ordered it that way. On the other hand, PIV isn’t natural, it’s an action done by men to us. They can choose not to do it, it isn’t necessary. There are many other ways of becoming pregnant than through penetration of the penis into the vagina. For instance, putting sperm on the vulva is enough to become pregnant. Women, if they wanted to become pregnant, could just ask a man for some sperm and apply it herself."

The image of a couple doing this gives me the giggles.

I like how she claims PIV is not natural because it's painful, yet pregnancy and childbirth is natural because that's what the vagina's purpose is... nevermind for the vast majority of women, childbirth is far more painful than intercourse... at least if you're doing it right.

[Canarr]

I've been following Google links on the subject a bit - of course, there's a lot, and it's along the entire spectrum. From the normal, common sense, ideas... to the batshit insane:

http://witchwind.wordpress.com/2013/...lways-rape-ok/

[Lace Neil Singer]

A friend of mine put it quite well. Her take was that not taking steps to protect yourself either out and about or within a relationship was the equivalent of walking thru a rough part of town waving wads of cash around. If you're mugged, it's not your fault but you could have done things to make it less likely to happen. That's not victim blaming; just common sense.

[Canarr]

Just to get things clear, I'm in no way supporting advice after the fact. That is pointless and also not very helpful to victims. However, I fail to see how advising young people to respect themselves, take care when they're out and about and to trust their instincts in regard to relationships equals victim blaming. All it's doing is allowing people to have some control over the situation and not give all the power to prevent an attack to the attacker.

Absolutely agree with you there, no question. My post was in response to s_stabeler's post above; sorry if that wasn't clear.

It's important to be aware of your surroundings and the situation you are in - whether you're a woman or a man doesn't really matter much, here. That shouldn't go so far as to turn into paranoia, but a certain degree of care should be taken.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Just to get things clear, I'm in no way supporting advice after the fact. That is pointless and also not very helpful to victims. However, I fail to see how advising young people to respect themselves, take care when they're out and about and to trust their instincts in regard to relationships equals victim blaming. All it's doing is allowing people to have some control over the situation and not give all the power to prevent an attack to the attacker.

For example; to avoid your house burning down, you're generally given advice to not leave candles alight, to switch off fires etc before you go to bed and to not smoke in the house. That doesn't mean that if someone's house burns down that they're to blame, just that an ounce of prevention goes a long way to shorten the odds.