Malicious Food Tampering vs. Stupid Food Thieves

[siead_lietrathua]

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't push to solve the actual problem.

except when i talk about what would be done to solve the problem i get back derision about not thinking in reality. simply because i talk about long-term, actual solutions.

did i ever say locks are useless? no. at worse i said it was essentially pathetic that locking lunchbags were required for a group of adults. that is was not a real solution but, in the words of hubs, "a bandaid".

[Andara Bledin]

Nobody is saying that you shouldn't push to solve the actual problem.

Just that you should also treat the symptoms in the meantime.

[siead_lietrathua]

Although it seems a bit silly, that in the face of an ongoing problem (repeated food theft) anyone wouldn't want to do something that could actually solve the problem like purchase a locking lunch kit, just because they shouldn't have to. (You know, if the world were perfect, like it should be, reality be damned.)

except, as i've said before, that doesn't really solve the problem.

if the thief is stealing lunches to simply have the food, they'll just move onto another target. shoving my problem off onto someone else is not a solution that benefits anyone but myself. it's Not a solution.
if the thief is taking someone's food to maliciously target them, a lock will not deter them for long. or they will change their tactics to something unrelated to food. it hasn't addressed their behavior. Not a solution.

i don't get this idea that i'm saying reality should be some perfect world. i'm saying if there is a thief, they should be dealt with as a thief, with appropriate punishment from authority.

edit for husband input: "it's not solving the problem, it's solving a side effect." " a bandaid on a broken arm"

[NecCat]

people saying that it's unreasonable to lock their shit, that a label with their name should be sufficient to mark their property, is not bratty.

saying that punishing people who intentionally steal (don't "play fair") the proper way, through the chain of management, is not footstomping. it's acting like a reasonable adult.

One time I did see someone take my food, we were all in the break room and one guy took a piece of a scotch egg that was on the counter, he didn't take it out of the fridge he saw it out in the open and thought it was fair game (even though it was from a shop and not what we used for deliveries) I got up and checked the fridge, yep mine wasn't there ergo that one was mine.

I went off on the whole room, the guy eating a piece wasn't seen taking it out of the fridge and ditching the label that had my name on it, he saw one scotch egg from an open twin pack, someone at some point in the day had taken it out and scarfed the first one and left it out in room temperature for god knows how long.

I was on the first cooked lunch break, the 2nd found most of their food in the bin already I was pissed.

After a talking to I was told to not let it happen again, well if my food isn't stolen I would have no reason to,....Nope the closest they got to a telling off was me calling random people who may not have even seen who took my scotch egg a bunch of c**ts and me throwing perfectly good food away.

So when the 2nd lunch started and found little of interest I point blank told em I thew some of the good shit away and why.

If I cant eat, you cant eat.

I was in charge of the reheating of spare stock and the next day I got the stuff ready and just wheeled the containers into the supervisors office and said "I've don't all I'm gonna do get some c**t to cook it."

(Emphasis mine)

Perhaps this is an example of what Andara Bledin meant by acting bratty and foot stomping, not reporting a theft to management or hoping that a properly labeled lunch kit will be sufficient.

Although it seems a bit silly, that in the face of an ongoing problem (repeated food theft) anyone wouldn't want to do something that could actually solve the problem like purchase a locking lunch kit, just because they shouldn't have to. (You know, if the world were perfect, like it should be, reality be damned.)

[siead_lietrathua]

Or, we could act like brats who never learned that not everybody is going to play fair, stamp our feet, and behave just as badly...

people saying that it's unreasonable to lock their shit, that a label with their name should be sufficient to mark their property, is not bratty.

saying that punishing people who intentionally steal (don't "play fair") the proper way, through the chain of management, is not footstomping. it's acting like a reasonable adult.

and if we go back to food tampering, we all already agreed that Intending to harm someone is a shit move, so i don't see how we're endorsing behaving badly.

to me, a locking lunch is a less reasonable precaution than having the thief actually dealt with, since one person locking a bag just moves the thief to a new target. it solves nothing for the group, only for one individual.

[Andara Bledin]

Like I said, "should" is a great word.

In a just world, everybody should be able to go about their business unmolested.

But since we live in the real world, it's incumbent upon ourselves to take reasonable precautions against those who refuse to play by the rules.

Or, we could act like brats who never learned that not everybody is going to play fair, stamp our feet, and behave just as badly...

[EricKei]

*i mean, really, it's a group of freaking adults. the thief should be written up, not the victims needing to buy locks.

You're right. It SHOULD never be needed. In a few, select cases -- meaning, those with a thief who is either persistent or untouchable (read: a manager who should be the one preventing the thefts in the first place), name labels simply let them know whether they're dining at Cafe EricKei or Siead's Pub that particular day. In those cases, the situation needs to be escalated to someone who WILL do something about it (especially if a manager is the thief and it can be proven -- this could be a mild form of Hostile Workplace Environment, or lead to same because of potential retribution by the thief and/or his buddies), and any preventative measures that the victims might have to take (such as a locking lunchbox) will, hopefully, only be temporary.

That fridge-cage thing is a bit ridonkulous, though. If I had roomies/family stealing my crap that often, I'd seriously consider just buying a mini-fridge for my own room, placing the most-frequently-stolen stuff in there, and just locking the room door.

[siead_lietrathua]

Should is a great sentiment. In the meantime, we lock our houses, we lock our cars, we lock our luggage, and we lock our phones. Is it really so unreasonable to extend that to our food when we know someone in our workplace is stealing it?

actually, yes. we lock those other things because of the potential of strangers we don't know taking our shit, in an environment where any sort of control over it (police) cannot help until after the fact. when you have a large number of variables, it makes sense to take preventions to stack the odds in your favor.

whereas a workplace is a controlled environment, known people, with rules and the constant enforcement team known as management. if someone is repeatedly stealing shit, it should be dealt with immediately in the moment by the management on site. especially is we know who the thief is.

hell, if you know who the thief is, they are easy to confront in a workplace and put them (verbally) in their place like any other bully. to compare that to a potential anonymous house robber is apples and oranges.

[Jetfire]

If it's a chronic problem and HR isn't helping, find out if others are having a problem and/or might be seeing something.

Get a distinctive lunchbag; instead of just a generic plastic bag from a grocery store, get a reuseable one you can decorate very distinctively. Let others know what's going on (without accusing anyone) so they may notice someone snitching from your lunch bag.

See if a camera can be set up in the lunchroom watching the fridge or where ever brought in lunches are getting stored. (Especially if others are having problems with lunch stealers too).

Labelling lunches with "May contain Peanuts" type labels shouldn't be needed unless the company has a policy about it for some reason. Then follow the company's policy.

Creating a lockable container (bag or box) shouldn't be too difficult really to do cheaply. The idea is you want to make it harder/less friendly to get into if they shouldn't be. If they are damaging your container to get into it, then you have more to go to HR with. My own bag is a 12x10x6 thermos bag with a zipper. It would be trivial to sew on a fabric loop at the far end and use a simple padlock to keep the zipper closed if I felt I needed to do that; and it would take up no more space than it does now, while making the bag harder to get into.

And if your food is still being stolen even after some basic protections, (and especially if you have put a lock that gets visibly damaged), you might be able to start making a case for harassment even if you aren't positive who it is. At that point it would be fairly obvious they are targeting YOU and not just looking for targets of opportunity.

[Ginger Tea]

Again it all boils down to if you can actually fit a locking lunch box or hell a lunch box in general into the staff fridge.

A lock on the door is a part of the door, it's not something that makes the door 50 times bigger, my lunch box that I posted measurements for could contain a can of coke and one or two sandwiches, the can takes up a fair bit, but the sandwiches alone not much bigger than a double CD case.

If you can buy a lunch box or fridge friendly bag that has a lock and it takes up very little extra space then fine, but not everyone is going to get a slim line box especially if what they eat cant fit into it.

What would your thoughts be if you saw that cage appear in the fridge one day? It's huge for most domestic fridges and TBH that's the size of fridges I've seen in work places. You've told the guy he should lock his food if he's worried about further theft, his response is over kill, but hey, he's acted on your advice and bought a locking 'lunch box'.

EDIT: I've done a google image search of "lockable lunch box" and as plastic clasps count as a locking mechanism, I have found very few that actually have a lock and key. I thought I saw one which was square and is 15cm square and 10cm high, but looking at other images on the product page, there are no key holes, its just a metal clasp that can be opened with ease.

Yes there are some bags with dual zips that take up little space and can have a luggage padlock added, but very few jump out saying "I am an all in one solution you don't have to go to Timpson's for a padlock." Hell I had an old coin box which had a naff lock, but it took up very little extra space compared to my lunch should I have used it as such.

[Andara Bledin]

*i mean, really, it's a group of freaking adults. the thief should be written up, not the victims needing to buy locks.

Should is a great sentiment. In the meantime, we lock our houses, we lock our cars, we lock our luggage, and we lock our phones. Is it really so unreasonable to extend that to our food when we know someone in our workplace is stealing it?

[Ginger Tea]

Well my #1 solution has been to go to HR (or the appropriate higher ups) to get it dealt with. The rest of the solutions are more "OK HR isn't working, what else can be done?"

BTDT, granted it wasn't enough to be an habitual problem, but it boiled down to "did you see who took it? No, well neither did we."

Maliciously tampering with my lunches is way down at the bottom of what I would do, if I would even consider it in the first place, in light of the other options.

Nor would I, tampering so I can't eat it is stupid, even if I was able to drink hot sauce straight out of the bottle (never tried) I wouldn't go the route of lets make a hot sauce sandwich unless there is such a thing on the market, if I get to it first and can eat it without thinking I'm eating a shit lunch, well its kinda OK, but 99% of the work force would see it as a case of "who brings a hot sauce sandwich in, it's meant to be a trap." unless I'm known to drown virtually anything I bring in whilst sat at a canteen table.

If I can't lock my food away and am following office policy which just entails my name on the bag, that means I don't have to list allergens and if I don't know the thief or their allergens, is labelling them as such a deterrent?

Or if I suspect it's Mr Peanut and label "Warning may contain nut's" that wont stop the true thief who is allergic to citrus, which I didn't bother warning about when a emptied a few tablespoons worth of lemon juice into my salad.

EDIT: that fridge locker, fuckballs that's over kill.
biggest flaw in domestic use, its a combination lock and portable, I go to work or bed I'm not to know someone doesn't take it out to their room and spend however long it takes to go through all combinations.

Knew a guy that said the same about bikes with combination locks and were not chained to a post or railing. What's to stop someone taking it a few yards a way to an alley and 5-10 minutes later (cant recall how long he said it would take to do 0000-9999) you have a bike. If it's connected to a post or you are ballsy enough you can do it there and then. Unlike PIN's the vast majority of combination cycle locks do not lock you out or sound an alarm after X amounts of tries.
Oh you can buy combination locks with alarms built in, but TBH you would be better off buying a Dlock that needs more than a basic hacksaw to get through for way less than the price no doubt.

When my £20 junker bike got too much of a hassle I bought a brand new £150 bike and a fiver lock, the guy said "WTF you spend that much on a bike (granted bikes do cost a heck of a lot more for some people) and that little on the lock." I told him the bike I had 'abandoned' at the cycle rack near by had a £30 lock on it and the fiver one was to replace it until I could come back into town for it.

[Jetfire]

Well my #1 solution has been to go to HR (or the appropriate higher ups) to get it dealt with. The rest of the solutions are more "OK HR isn't working, what else can be done?"

A lockable lunch bag is another solution. If you have enough room to put it in the fridge in the first place, a lockable bag will fit too; and probably better protect you from the new life forms that tend to develop in Workplace Fridges too.

Option 3 would be to use an insulated bag and some freezer packs and just keep the lunch at my desk or in my locker (or whereever else you are allowed to keep personal gear like jackets and stuff). This is what I actually do, not because of a lunch thief but because I just eat at my desk.

Option 4 would be to eat out.

Option 5 (or maybe Option 4) would be to try other types of lunches, ones that I still enjoy but are harder to steal without being very obvious. I'd probably also consider taping (and otherwise making annoying to remove) the containers my lunches are in, so someone trying to break in would be much more obvious. (Goes along with #2)

Maliciously tampering with my lunches is way down at the bottom of what I would do, if I would even consider it in the first place, in light of the other options.

[siead_lietrathua]

ignoring the locking part* i just don't get why people would need a labeled lunchpail VS a labeled brown sack. one won't deter a thief more than the other, and any person who makes an honest mixup will put the bag back when they realize the stuff inside it is not their own.

and yeah i can vouch for small work fridges. we have one about the sise of a house fridge, minus freezer. and 50+ staff. it fills up fast with just creamers and condiments people leave there, let alone the lunches people leave to finish the next day. lunchpails become unpractical when we have a full crew. (15+ people)


*i mean, really, it's a group of freaking adults. the thief should be written up, not the victims needing to buy locks. hell soon people will be advocating these are mandatory.

[Ginger Tea]

I found one of my old 'lunch boxes' it wasn't bought as one, it came in handy for random tat, but it was sold as such.

I knew it was large and you wouldn't get many to a fridge, it's 9*7*4.5 inches, well technically it's 8 inches as I only measured the case and not the fixed protruding handle.

That's been my go to memory of lunch boxes.

Out side of a fridge with a ice pack or two for the day, yeah left on the desk it's no biggie, providing that you are allowed to store and eat food at your desk, if you have a desk that is.