Dilemma with friend

[Greenday]

If someone's being a total idiot, I don't feel at all sorry for threatening to kick them when they end up down, because it's their own damned fault.

Besides, it's a threat. I never said anything about following through on it.

Still doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like you'd be telling him what to do...or else. And that kind of threatening is just plain wrong.

[Andara Bledin]

By far one of the most petty lines to make oneself feel self-important. The definition of kicking someone when they are down.

If someone's being a total idiot, I don't feel at all sorry for threatening to kick them when they end up down, because it's their own damned fault.

Besides, it's a threat. I never said anything about following through on it.

[Greenday]

Also:

"When this fails, and it's almost guaranteed to fail, I will say that I told you so."

By far one of the most petty lines to make oneself feel self-important. The definition of kicking someone when they are down.

[s_stabeler]

My attitude is slightly more nuanced: i won't lie. I won't actively tell the spouse, but if said spouse asks me directly if their SO is cheating? I'm not going to deny it. (I won't drop them in it deliberately- if B's husband asked me where B was, i wouldn't say "on a date with A" but fi B's husband asks me f B is cheating on him with A I wouldn't cover for A.)

[Andara Bledin]

"If you two need an alibi, or somebody to cover for you, DO NOT come to me. If you insist on going ahead with this, just remember I warned you. If it blows up in your face, you're on your own. I don't know you."

Also:

"When this fails, and it's almost guaranteed to fail, I will say that I told you so."

[Anthony K. S.]

I have never been in this situation, and I honestly don't know how I would handle it.

Would I tell the cheater's spouse? Would I try to talk my friend out of it? Would I end the friendship?

It would depend a lot on how close I was to the situation and the people involved. I suppose I can't really know what I'd do until I was actually in the situation.

One thing I am pretty sure about, though. I would make it clear to my friend from the very beginning that if he gets into trouble, he's on his own.

"If you two need an alibi, or somebody to cover for you, DO NOT come to me. If you insist on going ahead with this, just remember I warned you. If it blows up in your face, you're on your own. I don't know you."

No way would I let them drag me into this.

[s_stabeler]

I personally think A is being an utter idiot for a couple of reasons ( most notably, if B is willing to cheat on her husband, how does A expect that B will not end up cheating on him?)

Also, while I don't particularly care about someone getting into a relationship with someone who turns out to be married ( that's on the cheater) if you know they are married... yeah, don't.

As for what you should do, stay out of it, but if A asks you for advice, tell him to find somebody else to date who isn't married.

[Shangri-laschild]

Not necessary, some people are just terrible and selfish to begin with. -.-

Yeah but how often are relationships with people like that stable? Which is kind of my point that for one reason or another, often when stuff like this happens, the relationship already wasn't in a good place really.

The problem isn't necessarily the committed relationship as the lack of awareness of all parties involved. If anyone is out of the loop, then it will end in tears if not tragedy.

But how good of shape is the relationship actually in if people are out of the loop? I'm not saying both parties are always aware of it or that something is wrong. When I was cheated on, I had no signs or clue that anything was wrong. If one of the people isn't fully in the relationship, there's a problem with the relationship.

[Andara Bledin]

The problem isn't necessarily the committed relationship as the lack of awareness of all parties involved.

If anyone is out of the loop, then it will end in tears if not tragedy.

[Gravekeeper]

But if the person is already willing to cheat then things are already in jeopardy from the start.

Not necessary, some people are just terrible and selfish to begin with. -.-

But yes, even if you put aside the moral problems this is still just a terrible idea to get involved with someone that is already in a committed relationship. Its an emotional minefield. Someone IS going to get hurt if not everyone involved.

[Shangri-laschild]

My comment was more directed at the "it's not my fault if her marriage is already in jeopardy" thinking, as GK's comment points out. The cheating puts someone on a slippery moral slope, but actively trying to convince yourself that it's okay because X reason starts you tumbling down that slope at a pretty rapid pace.

I can understand that view point. I was more responding to the part where Lachrymose commented on it turning their view of him upside down rather than arguing your specific point. I'm not saying that this absolutely should not be something to end a friendship over. Just that it's worth considering how much it does effect the friendship in this specific instance.

And while I do agree that the other person plays a role, stuff like this (especially not just spur of the moment cheating) doesn't really tend to happen when both people are completely happy in the relationship and things are solid even if it's not something they realize. However, that doesn't mean that they couldn't have still fixed the relationship if the cheating hadn't happened. But if the person is already willing to cheat then things are already in jeopardy from the start. And I do see a small difference between someone who talks someone into cheating vs getting involved with someone who from the sounds of it was willing from the start which at least to me sounds like maybe what the person was trying to articulate. Doesn't make it a good justification at all but sometimes especially with matters of the heart, people are more inclined to let themselves believe justifications that they normally wouldn't. Which is part of why for situations like this (unlike in spur of the moment hop into bed with someone things) I'm less inclined to change my overall opinion of someone. None of that means it can't be held against them or that they aren't actually a completely different kind of person than they seemed to be. Just that it's worth putting some thought into.

I will also say that having been friends with someone who was involved with an engaged woman, there did come a point where I was done hearing about it because it took her over half a year to get past the "I love you and no longer love my fiance but I don't know if I should leave him" crap and I got tired of hearing about his roller coaster that he chose to get on so even outside of moral reasons, deciding to not want to discuss the situation definitely isn't a bad idea.

[the_std]

I'm not saying I agree with cheating (including being single and involved with people who are married) but I've known people who are and one or two of them are some of the most honest straight forward people outside of that.

I definitely understand this, as one of my best friends ended her marriage by cheating on her husband, and I proceeded to give her a place to stay until she got on her feet. We are still incredibly close.

My comment was more directed at the "it's not my fault if her marriage is already in jeopardy" thinking, as GK's comment points out. The cheating puts someone on a slippery moral slope, but actively trying to convince yourself that it's okay because X reason starts you tumbling down that slope at a pretty rapid pace.

[Gravekeeper]

If it were me, I would take it a step further and end the friendship with A. If he is willing to go ahead with something that is so against your moral compass, is that a quality you really want in a close friend?

Thats kind of where I'm sitting with this too. This sort of action speaks volumes about someones character or lack there of. Especially with the whole Its not my fault if I destroy their relationship justification for it. That kind of says he knows its wrong but doesn't care.

[Shangri-laschild]

Ask yourself this, does it really change your friendship with A? Yes there is a subject that you don't want to be discussion, but does it really change any of the aspects of your friendship from before all this happened? Does it change the things about them that made you want to be friends with them?

I'm not saying I agree with cheating (including being single and involved with people who are married) but I've known people who are and one or two of them are some of the most honest straight forward people outside of that. Very against theft, don't tend to lie usually fairly good guys. I've found that the morals don't always line up across the board, especially when it's the single person who is ok with getting involved with married people. And I've also known people who normally wouldn't, but then they meet someone and there is something special and it's even harder to say no. Again, none of this is me trying to defend the specific act! It's me pointing out that this doesn't necessarily change your friendship with the person. It also doesn't necessarily change most of what you thought about them.

[the_std]

If it were me, I would take it a step further and end the friendship with A. If he is willing to go ahead with something that is so against your moral compass, is that a quality you really want in a close friend?