A question for christians accepting of homosexuality

[BlaqueKatt]

And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Huh I was taught differently-That the original sin was not Eve being tempted by the serpent but Adam disobeying God and then blaming his wife for it rather than admit what he had done.

You mention jews as well. Reform jews don't really care for the most part, in my experience. Orthodox jews keep to themselves and I've got no idea what they think.

Tolerance
Ask a Rabbi
He goes into great depth on the topic-and into the Torah/Talmud

Gist of it is:

Not extending love and compassion or judging someone goes against the Torah. Just as a parent doesn't stop loving a child because they misbehave, God/Yahweh doesn't stop loving his children. Jewish persons are forbidden to judge another person for what they might consider improper as that is God/Yaweh's job.

[Lace Neil Singer]

King James Bible
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

American King James Version
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be on them.

Which, pardon my language is fucking ironic, seeing as King James was gay.

[Rapscallion]

I've also yet to see Muslims marching with "Allah hates fags" signs.

They don't need to.

http://www.well.com/user/queerjhd/sx...ctreatment.htm

Fairly accepted in the Islamic world that having happy bum fun time equates a death sentence.

The average outraged muslim is more likely to be worried about a cartoon or a book or what have you.

The main reason there's no signage and marching from such groups is that they're not completely daft. It's one thing for a minority such as Phelps and his loonies to do what they do, but for a small number of brown people to do that? In a country where, "He needed killing," has been accepted in a court of law? After the 9/11 attacks and the subsequent offensives against radical islam in the middle east? In a nation that financially backs their greatest peeve, Israel? Not completely daft, mate.

For the record, I think both groups are fuckwits who haven't had the presence of self to make up their own minds about what difference it actually makes, but the reasons muslims don't make that sort of protest is pretty much down to self-preservation.

You mention jews as well. Reform jews don't really care for the most part, in my experience. Orthodox jews keep to themselves and I've got no idea what they think.

Rapscallion

[jackfaire]

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1748

Thought it was amusing and somewhat related.

[Hyena Dandy]

But as was explained, the bible AS CURRENTLY TRANSLATED is just that. A translation. The bible as we have it is a translation of of what are supposedly second-hand accounts of the life of Jesus etc. Except Paul's letters, which are supposedly translations of the writings of a guy who knew Jesus but doesn't write his biography.

Its a horrible mistake to read it literally, especially to read it literally in English. There are words used which convey things which don't exist in English.

My view on it is that the morality of my sexuality is a matter between me and God, and it will be resolved when I'm judged. Its not between me and anyone else.

I also believe that whether you're Catholic (Unam Sanctum) or Protestant (The Doctrine of Two Cities) the Church has no right to interfere in this. And practically every Christian sect believes that someone has to behave morally out of a desire to be moral, not out of being forced. It is inappropriate to try to force people through laws to behave otherwise.

[Slytovhand]

Why not? No multiplication tables?

That's why they needed the Sum of God...

I'm no Christian type, but my whole take on it is rather simple - and simplistic. If God didn't say it, then it doesn't really count! I don't recall God making anyone perfect, nor was He strongly inclined to correct people's mistakes on an individual level..(not that I know anything of this Bible book people keep going on about). So, the only ones who really got to say anything about 'rules' regarding these new fangled religions were Moses (cos God and him had a one-on-one.. and sent him a fax - well, older version of a fax ), and JC himself...

So, Mr Leviticus... meh.. his own personal rant. Mr Paul... meh, his own personal rant. You get my stance!

[smileyeagle1021]

my question to you is: why single out christians as inherently anti-gay? especially using a verse from leviticus, which is also a part of the torah. by your logic, doesn't this make jewish people inherently anti-gay? and what about similar passages in the koran? yet you've said nothing about anyone except christians.

for the record, i'm not a christian myself, just someone who is wondering why you're generalizing about one group while the same accusations could be made against others using the same passage you use as evidence.

To be blunt, in the United States Muslims and Jews aren't responsible for equal rights being denied to homosexuals.
In Utah the strongest forces to keep it legal for discrimination against homosexuals have been the LDS church and it's members... all other denominations come in second place.
I've also yet to see Muslims marching with "Allah hates fags" signs.
I've yet to read the headlines about the millions of dollars donated by Jews to anti-equality campaigns.
And as someone else mentioned, I am not familiar with the Koran or the Torah, what I know is the Bible and it's black and white message (as currently translated) that I am evil and a "good" Christian should kill me or at the very least shun me.

That and yes, I do have a vendetta against the church... I had one church (LDS) promise me that I would be "cured" then basically pushed me out when a quick dunk didn't actually fix it. Then had another church lie to me and tell me that I would be accepted before letting it slip that I was about the most vile thing that could walk this Earth. And then every day I must wake up and be reminded of it by hearing our local christian leadership brag about how they are keeping homosexuals second class citizens.

[Shangri-laschild]

Why not? No multiplication tables?

Well no, they hadn't taken the fruit of knowledge yet :-p

I read somewhere a theory that, as Eve was a clone of Adam, they were originally identical. Since the Fall hadn't happened yet, there was no death and therefore no need to reproduce; they became male and female when they were kicked out.

I believe in the bible it says when the left that there was a physical change though I could be wrong. I think the theory I had been taught was that they were more similar to god and were possibly at the time immortal to some extent. It's been a long time since I heard this though so.

[HYHYBT]

Jesus was 30 years old before he began his Ministry. In that day and age, you didn't have many people unmarried at that age. Did he have another wife that died prior to him accepting his role? Did he leave that family behind? Did they stay at home with the rest of the family while He and Mary went out? Was he married to Mary Magdalene? Was he gay? Far too many unanswered questions that will remain that way.

Well, assuming for the moment that he knew what would happen (not an unreasonable assumption for the son of God) it makes sense. Think about how widowed, divorced, or abandoned women and their children had to live at that time. It would have been wrong to marry and start a family with the intention of leaving them and eventually getting killed, not to mention the likelihood of future generations worshipping his living descendants (which would hardly have been good for the descendants either). A gay relationship wouldh't present most of those problems but would, at the least, have made it all the more difficult to get people to take the ministry seriously.

I had a sunday school teacher who taught it to us a bit different. God told them to "go forth and multiply" only they couldn't in Eden. The original sin was actually sex and so they because mortal or however it describes it and left Eden so that they could actually multiply.

I read somewhere a theory that, as Eve was a clone of Adam, they were originally identical. Since the Fall hadn't happened yet, there was no death and therefore no need to reproduce; they became male and female when they were kicked out.

[Kimmik]

I follow the judge not least ye be judge philosophy. It is not my place to decide what is a sin and what is not. I have enough to worry about trying to live my own life.

[jackfaire]

God told them to "go forth and multiply" only they couldn't in Eden. .

Why not? No multiplication tables?

[Shangri-laschild]

I have heard so many different explinations for mistranslations. For instance, someone I used to know once told me that what they were refering to was anal basically. That it was bad no matter what gender but that any other form of homosexuality was not part of that. Not saying I agree with that or not, just that most of the explinations I've heard come down to different translations.

Growing up, even in church, I was always taught to question things. Pray about them myself and see how I felt about them. I'm guessing the goal was to gain a stronger personal testimony on the commandments rather than just believing it because you're told. Homosexuality was always just something that never seemed wrong to me no matter what else I learned. Of course I don't know what I consider myself anymore as far as religion. While Christianity would possibly be the closest I come to any form of organized religion, I've already decided that if I start going back to any church, it's going to be the Unitarian.

From the NIV:
14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

This always makes me giggle. I had a sunday school teacher who taught it to us a bit different. God told them to "go forth and multiply" only they couldn't in Eden. The original sin was actually sex and so they because mortal or however it describes it and left Eden so that they could actually multiply. Dunno if it's true or not or if other religions teach it or not (that particular teacher was the only one I heard it from), but he didn't actually believe that it was this huge sin she had committed.

[crashhelmet]

LOL I thought someone would like that

Seriously though, with all the hatred towards homosexuals because of various twisted religious crap, it would be interesting. I mean, Jesus has always been *assumed* to be straight, God has always been *assumed* to be human, etc. I don't really care one way or the other, but it would be awesome to see the whackos get the "deer-in-headlights" look when they found out that their Messiah was gay, or that God was really a purple two-headed yak. Now *that* would be a sight to behold!

That's actually an interesting thought when you... uhh... think about it. There are those that say the Church took out just about everything they could that would make him seem more man than God, including relationships.

So... What is one to think about a man that runs around everywhere with his mother, an unmarried woman, once possessed and later accused of being a whore, and 12 other guys of varying ages.

Jesus was 30 years old before he began his Ministry. In that day and age, you didn't have many people unmarried at that age. Did he have another wife that died prior to him accepting his role? Did he leave that family behind? Did they stay at home with the rest of the family while He and Mary went out? Was he married to Mary Magdalene? Was he gay? Far too many unanswered questions that will remain that way.

The truth of the matter though is that the answers are not important. People should be more concerned with His message than whether or not He was the pitcher or the catcher or if He had 5 wives or none at all.

CH

[protege]

LOL I thought someone would like that

Seriously though, with all the hatred towards homosexuals because of various twisted religious crap, it would be interesting. I mean, Jesus has always been *assumed* to be straight, God has always been *assumed* to be human, etc. I don't really care one way or the other, but it would be awesome to see the whackos get the "deer-in-headlights" look when they found out that their Messiah was gay, or that God was really a purple two-headed yak. Now *that* would be a sight to behold!

[jackfaire]

It would make the heads of Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, etc, explode!

Mmmmm exploding heads.