Non-Christians Celebrating Christmas

[Boozy]

No, but Ree specified that her company specifically calls the gifts "Christmas gifts". The paystubs say "Merry Christmas". The money is specified as a celebration of Christmas.

[Flyndaran]

When you put it that way, I have to agree with you. It's one thing for a non-Christian to participate in certain non-religious aspects of Christmas, like Santa Claus and Christmas trees. But it's another to actively condemn everything to do with Christmas, and then accept a Christmas bonus. I would consider that hypocritical as well.

But I don't really know anyone like that, either.

It's only hypocrisy if gift giving is only to do with Christmas. Just because I give something to my girlfriend on December 25th, does not mean it has anything to do with Christmas.

[Boozy]

My problem was with people who don't celebrate Christmas and condemn everything related to Christmas yet have no problem with that Christmas payout.

When you put it that way, I have to agree with you. It's one thing for a non-Christian to participate in certain non-religious aspects of Christmas, like Santa Claus and Christmas trees. But it's another to actively condemn everything to do with Christmas, and then accept a Christmas bonus. I would consider that hypocritical as well.

But I don't really know anyone like that, either.

[Ree]

Does your company officially call their year-end bonuses "Christmas" bonuses, or are they just known that way colloquially among the staff?

Actually, yes they do call them a "Christmas Bonus", and they are given out with the word "Merry Christmas from..." on the bottom of the paystub. They used to be given in Christmas cards when we were still being issued cheques rather than electronic deposit.

In any case, I don't see anything wrong with a non-Christian accepting a year-end bonus that is given out around the holidays. Even if the company is officially giving them out as "Christmas" gifts.

I have no problem with non-Christians getting year end bonus, or even a Christmas bonus, at all.

My problem was with people who don't celebrate Christmas and condemn everything related to Christmas yet have no problem with that Christmas payout.

Again, what companies need to do is to stop associating Christmas with those types of things.
If they're a year end bonus then call it that.

Not all places give the cash bonuses.
Some give turkeys or gift baskets.
Those are more along the line of a Christmas gift, and I have yet to see any of these same people refuse on principle.

I don't begrudge them. I just think it's funny.

I really have no problem with anyone celebrating what they want.

However, the point was raised at the beginning of the thread

Some people think that people who do not follow the Christian faith are being hypocritical if they celebrate Christmas.

I thought that was something that was being brought up to be discussed, so I pointed out my side of that argument.

I think it's hypocritical, but I'm not going to go picket your driveway for having "Merry Christmas" across your lawn when you haven't darkened the doors of a church in years, or even in your lifetime.

I celebrate Christmas in my own way with a focus on the celebration of Christ's birth.

You celebrate it your way.

Do I wish you would call it something else? Yes.
Am I going to make a big deal of it and call you on it? No.

I'll just smile to myself and live and let live.

[Kalli]

You do admit , however, that you don't participate in "Christ's Mass", so you are, in my opinion, being hypocritical by saying you celebrate "Christmas".

Again, the word means something different to me than it did to those who created it. It's not "Christ's Mass" to me, it's "Christmas", an entirely different meaning, although to some it is still Christ's Mass.

I fail to see, then, how I am suggesting something that is the polar opposite of Christmas

Sorry, this one's my bad - I was referring to your suggestion to call it "winter festival", because Christmas is in summer where I live. Get it? Polar opposite? I was trying to be clever but I was way too obscure about it, and it got away from me. lol.


I should explain the reasons I'm getting defensive at you labeling me as hypocritical. There are 2.

1) I'm not sure I understand why it matters. Christmas makes me happy, I'm not hurting anyone, I'm bringing joy into my house with my Christmas. Why is it necessary to nitpick about the historical correctness of the word? I could pick any post by anyone in this thread, and there'd be 10 words in it that aren't used perfectly correctly, or that mean something totally different than they used to.

2) I don't believe it is hypocrisy at all. If I participated in the Christian aspects of the holiday, that would be hypocrisy, because as I've made all to clear, I hate Christianity. However, I celebrate the holiday in an entirely secular festive way, zero religion. I simply use the same label for it. Hypocrisy denotes pretense; I have none of that.

[guywithashovel]

When I first started this thread, it seemed like everyone on the board was going to agree with one point of view. But now, some other points of view have been brought into the discussion.

To some extent, it does seem a little hypocritical to celebrate the holiday if you aren't an active Christian. However, as I mentioned earlier in the thread, it really doesn't seem to me that very many people focus on the religious aspect of the holiday, anyway. From my observation, most people---Christian or not---seem primarily focused on the presents, the family get-togethers, getting all the shopping done, the food, and wondering how to deal with the less-sane members of the family. Point being, it's become a pretty secular holiday over time. So in that light, there doesn't appear to be much hypocrisy in a non-Christian celebrating Christmas. After all, most Christians celebrate Halloween, a holiday with undeniable pagan origins.

Also, Ree brought up an interesting point. She pointed out that Christmas was developed out of Christ Mass. On this note, I will reiterate someone I stated at the beginning of the thread.

Wednesday originally meant either "Woden's Day" or "Odin's Day." If you acknowledge Wednesday, do you believe in Woden and/or Odin?


EDIT: Around Christmas time, I usually just think of myself as celebrating the end of the year. Just throwing that in.
Thursday originally meant "Thor's Day." If you acknowledge Thursday, do you believe in Thor?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Why, thank you, Broom.

[BroomJockey]

How I celebrate and what I believe is my business. Same for everyone else.

This is why you're cool.

[protege]

Of course all of this can be solved...simply by celebrating Winter-Een-Mas

Seriously folks, I'm not religious at all, yet I was raised Roman Catholic. Got tired of that, mainly because of my mother dragging me to church on Sundays and being told that I'd "go to hell" if I didn't do whatever she said. No wonder that I turned away from that idea, and am now an agnostic. Or, an atheist, if you prefer.

For me, Christmas has always been about family. Getting together with annoying relatives that we don't see very often, and eating way too much. Much like our Thanksgivings, in fact Sure, we get presents both Christmas Eve and Day...but that's not really what it's about.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

That's what I'm saying. Who cares?

I mean, I agree that it's not technically "Christmas", but it's not something I care about one way or the other. How I celebrate and what I believe is my business. Same for everyone else.

[Fryk]

I think that non-christians celebrating christian holidays is something believers will have to just let go. I mean, how would you conceivably tell someone to stop celebrating a holiday? How would you make that stick? And what exactly is Jesus doing in heaven? Is he up there going, "Oh my ME! These people are celebrating the day of my birth, even though they say they don't believe in me! I shall smite them all!!"
I mean, after all, if someone you don't know walks up to you and tells you "Happy Birthday," are you going to smack them in the face for it?
And if I don't celebrate christmas, and someone gives me a present, do I throw it back in their face and tell them to keep their sorry religious gift? Ditto for a christmas bonus. Yeeaaaaahhhhhh, way to make friends and influence people.

[Nyoibo]

but as a method to wipe out other ideologies and religions. Celebrate that, why don't you?

Well they celebrate Thanksgiving.

[BroomJockey]

They chose to use the time of a pagan festival for the date.

Yes, to more easily convert the heathens by making it so that they didn't have to no longer celebrate at certain times of the year. It was a political move by the Christian church, meant solely as a power play. It had nothing to do with celebrating the birth of Christ, or they'd have picked a date a little closer to his actual date of birth. You know what they picked Dec. 25? Because it was a longstanding tradition in most pagan cultures to be seen around that time as the time of rebirth. And I don't get a "Christmas" bonus. Back when I did get extra pay at this time of year, you know what it was? My VACATION PAY. That I'd EARNED throughout the year by working. It wasn't even a bonus. Eventually, they just started giving it to us on each paycheque to simplify bookkeeping, and every job I've had since then has done similarly.

So I'm sorry, but if you go back to the "origins" of Christmas, it wasn't chosen for its particular relevance to Christianity, but as a method to wipe out other ideologies and religions. Celebrate that, why don't you?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Do you think I

"Christmas" was originated by Christians as a celebration of the birth of Christ. They chose to use the time of a pagan festival for the date.
Many of the holiday traditions have their basis in this and other pagan celebrations.
I fail to see, then, how I am suggesting something that is the polar opposite of Christmas by asking people who do not honour or celebrate the birth of Christ as a part of their holiday tradition to stop using a name that evokes the image of "Christ" to define what has become a very secular celebration.

Sorry, yeah, I got to go with Ree on this one. She's right.

She's saying, if I am correct, "This is like you having a party and calling it Mass." It's a good argument, and I agree with her.

Which makes me think: you know how Christians complain about "Winter Holiday" or whatever being substituted for "Christmas"? Maybe they need to not get upset over that. Running out to the mall or tree lot has technically nothing to do with Christmas, but everything to do with our Winter Holiday. For some people it's the same thing, for others it isn't.

Now, as to how people want to use the word or not, I could not care less. It does not affect me. It has picked up secular connoctations, but you could argue that so has the word "Jesus Christ", expecially in relation to His middle initial and his bicycle.

[Boozy]

I always laugh at people of a certain religion who do not celebrate the holidays and condemn Christmas as secular and pagan, but never turn down the Christmas bonuses given to staff in celebration of it.

Does your company officially call their year-end bonuses "Christmas" bonuses, or are they just known that way colloquially among the staff?

In any case, I don't see anything wrong with a non-Christian accepting a year-end bonus that is given out around the holidays. Even if the company is officially giving them out as "Christmas" gifts.

I'm not Christian, but I work every bit as hard as my Christian co-workers during the holiday season. I earn my bonus at work, not at church.