Drug Tests

[Flyndaran]

I think it would be awesome to live in a place where being a douchebag is illegal. Where just being rude and nasty can nab you a hefty fine or a night in jail.

That's the problem. Only some are douchey professionally. We are all douchebags once in a while. Should we all be policed in day to day life?
So far, america has said, "no", while england said, "yes".

[DrFaroohk]

I think it would be awesome to live in a place where being a douchebag is illegal. Where just being rude and nasty can nab you a hefty fine or a night in jail.

[Flyndaran]

I can only demand details if a law has been broken, or anti social behaviour (ASB) is being commited. ASB is defined as actions that can, will or have caused harrasement, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household [of the person commiting it]. That definition of ASB means that technically they are breaking the law under the Public Order Act.

So being a prick is against the law there? Again, I'm glad that style of governing is not here.
That page you linked to didn't show that a law must be broken beforehand. I'm just glad free speech is quite a bit stronger over here.

[crazylegs]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad that we don't have that here in the U.S.
I really don't like that it's illegal to refuse to provide personal information to you. Here privacy laws let me tell a cop to get bent as long as I haven't broken the law.

I can only demand details if a law has been broken, or anti social behaviour (ASB) is being commited. ASB is defined as actions that can, will or have caused harrasement, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household [of the person commiting it]. That definition of ASB means that technically they are breaking the law under the Public Order Act.

[Flyndaran]

I'm a Police Community Support Officer (PCSO).

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm glad that we don't have that here in the U.S.
I really don't like that it's illegal to refuse to provide personal information to you. Here privacy laws let me tell a cop to get bent as long as I haven't broken the law.

[crazylegs]

May I ask what your job is? Your phrasing make you sound like a parole officer, which I guess would make one suspect for criminal activity sadly.

I forget the exact terminology, but it's almost like the UK version of a Peace Officer.

I'm a Police Community Support Officer (PCSO).

[DrFaroohk]

So to settle the lie thing, just because I cannot let it go: It seems the argument hinges on my hoping for a false negative, correct? I was, in fact, not hoping for a false negative. I was hoping they didn't give a crap about marijuana. So there. No lie. It was not my intent to deceive anyone. If it were, I would have bought a flush kit or substituted my urine with my step son's.

It would be like someone saying "Have you ever stolen from work?" and saying no, even though there was one time you borrowed a pen from the office and forgot to return it, and it wound up back at your house. Technically you did in fact steal something, by taking something that did not belong to you, but you assume that's not what they mean when they ask you.


DrFaroohk - 1

The Liar's Club - Big fat ZERO

[Greenday]

Hey that sounds like the slippery slope argument.

Damnit, I've been found out.

[BroomJockey]

May I ask what your job is? Your phrasing make you sound like a parole officer, which I guess would make one suspect for criminal activity sadly.

I forget the exact terminology, but it's almost like the UK version of a Peace Officer.

[anriana]

Ok, so we start out with it's ok to smoke a day before work. Then it becomes it's ok to smoke the night before work. Then it's ok to smoke the morning of work. Then it's ok to smoke right before work. Then it's ok to smoke during work. Where does it end? No one is going to agree on a specific time. And yes, it WILL affect performance as all drugs decrease your abilities in some way or another, which is a proven fact.

The difference between banning weed consumption and having kids, WoW, stressful home situations etc. is that weed is illegal. That's why drug consumption is banned completely from various workplaces and the others are not.

Hey that sounds like the slippery slope argument.

[Flyndaran]

...
Basically I cannot do anything which places me at risk of blackmail, and commiting a criminal act comes under this.

May I ask what your job is? Your phrasing make you sound like a parole officer, which I guess would make one suspect for criminal activity sadly.

I just have trouble with treating people like criminals without just cause.

[crazylegs]

So it's wrong to lie even when asked a question that is none of their damn business? I would say that what I do off work is none of their business. Others here seem to think it is.

With my job I cannot, under any circumstances, associate with known criminals, and even associating with those on the fringes of criminality would prompt some raising of eyebrows. It is entirely reasonable of the job to ask for, and me to provide, samples for drug testing. Not only would I be associating with criminals but also be actively involved in criminal activity, which is rather the opposite of my job!

Basically I cannot do anything which places me at risk of blackmail, and commiting a criminal act comes under this.

[BroomJockey]

So it's wrong to lie even when asked a question that is none of their damn business? I would say that what I do off work is none of their business.

Then SAY "I don't believe it is any of your business." It IS wrong to lie. It's too easy to fall in to the trap of it becoming easier to lie than tell the truth. We've already gone on the merry-go-round of whether it actually affects your work or not, so I won't rehash that part of the argument.

[AFPheonix]

Ok, so we start out with it's ok to smoke a day before work. Then it becomes it's ok to smoke the night before work. Then it's ok to smoke the morning of work. Then it's ok to smoke right before work. Then it's ok to smoke during work. Where does it end? No one is going to agree on a specific time. And yes, it WILL affect performance as all drugs decrease your abilities in some way or another, which is a proven fact.

The difference between banning weed consumption and having kids, WoW, stressful home situations etc. is that weed is illegal. That's why drug consumption is banned completely from various workplaces and the others are not.

I think at this point, everyone agrees that because of the legality of the thing, it probably shouldn't be done, at least openly.
However, pot is one of those drugs that isn't really all that horrible. It's not even in the same DEA schedule as other illegal street drugs. It's classed more as a CIII, the same as Vicodin.
An
d while people who have a propensity for addiction will have a problem with it, not everyone will, just like how some people have serious issues with Vicodn, but not everyone who gets 12 from the dentist gets hooked.
Most users (and there are many, present company excluded, although several of my sisters partake) are able to do so recreationally and doon't let it interfere with their work or other serious parts of their lives.

[Flyndaran]

So it's wrong to lie even when asked a question that is none of their damn business? I would say that what I do off work is none of their business. Others here seem to think it is.