You make too much money!

[Greenday]

it's sports figures and movies stars. Do they really need to make hundreds of millions? no they don't. They could live quite nicely on a million or two. God knows I could. It isn't necessary to have 3 or 4 homes all over the place for god's sake. ONE suffices for most people.

Or when they own their own freaking island.

At least doctor's do something to better the world.

[telecom_goddess]

Actually, that's not at all what he was doing.

He was criticizing those who make an obscene profit.

What constitutes 'obscene' is up for debate.

^-.-^

I gotta agree with this. It's one thing to make a profit and have a good life but there are people out there that make way more money than they are actually worth. But I don't agree it's the doctors...it's sports figures and movies stars. Do they really need to make hundreds of millions? no they don't. They could live quite nicely on a million or two. God knows I could. It isn't necessary to have 3 or 4 homes all over the place for god's sake. ONE suffices for most people.

[Andara Bledin]

You are criticizing them for making a profit for providing an essential service.

Actually, that's not at all what he was doing.

He was criticizing those who make an obscene profit.

What constitutes 'obscene' is up for debate.

^-.-^

[Ree]

It seems now like the main argument is that since I personally might do the same thing, it's ok...

You are criticizing them for making a profit for providing an essential service.
I was merely pointing out that, unless you are willing to "walk the talk" and claim that you would not do the same in the same circumstances, then you really don't have a leg to stand on with your complaint.
I didn't say it made it right, although I don't have a problem with doctors being properly compensated and making money.

[linguist]

So it's their choice, and while it's a nice thing to do for patients, they don't have to be doing it if they feel they aren't making the money to do it or whatever. Those that choose to put themselves on call that much can't really complain about the hours if they are hours of their own choosing now can they?

That same logic could be applied to any choice one makes in life: you made the choice to (fill in the blank), you have no place to complain. It could easily be applied to most threads in this section.

Besides which, who said they're complaining? Just because they made the choice to make sacrifices doesn't mean they shouldn't be compensated for those sacrifices.

[muses_nightmare]

They don't have to be on call, but they can make themselves available to patients if they want to. It's all a matter of preference.

So it's their choice, and while it's a nice thing to do for patients, they don't have to be doing it if they feel they aren't making the money to do it or whatever. Those that choose to put themselves on call that much can't really complain about the hours if they are hours of their own choosing now can they?

[Greenday]

They don't have to be on call, but they can make themselves available to patients if they want to. It's all a matter of preference.

[muses_nightmare]

Does it work differently in the US, but here I've never seen any GP that has to be on call 24/7, never. The only ones I have seen be on call are those that work in ER in the hospital and specialists, and the ER doctors only if the hospital they work in isn't open 24 hours in which case there would be a doctor working nights, if not more than one.

With the costs they way they are in the US I don't see why I hear people railing against universal healthcare, at least I don't see why I don't hear of many people arguing for a better way to provide it. I know that not everyone does, but the most vocal seem to be against it because it's "socialist" or somesuch, which is really kind of stupid. But admittedly I don't really know the entire political situation when it comes to that in the US. *shrugs*

[the_std]

It seems now like the main argument is that since I personally might do the same thing, it's ok...

Actually, that was merely one argument put forth by Ree. The more applicable one to this debate, the real reason I believe doctors make as much money as they do, is here...

You apparently didn't pay attention to the part where I said it goes beyond covering expenses. There's also the fact that the truly dedicated are on call 24-7, leaving them little to no time for a personal life. There's a reason that the burnout and divorce rate among medical professionals is as high as it is. This doesn't deserve compensation?

Really, it's a fairly simple equation. The people who do the jobs other people don't want to do are going to be paid more, otherwise no one would do them. This applies to people doing yucky jobs as well as people doing jobs that require enough specialized training that it interferes with their life outside of work. If we didn't pay doctors this much, we would have a lot less people willing to subject themselves to the insane long hours, the stress, the debt and the myriad other problems that only present themselves in a unique situation like a doctor's.

Being a doctor is not a fun job. Doing it "for the people" is not enough for us to keep enough doctors around to deal with our relatively high population.

[DrFaroohk]

It seems now like the main argument is that since I personally might do the same thing, it's ok...

since when has that ever been a good argument? I've NEVER been able to use that. "Well you do it too! He's done it too! You would do it in my shoes!" I've never been allowed to do that, why is it allowed now?

[Racket_Man]

I can't imagine living in a place where anyone would have to put off going to the doctor because it will cost them an arm and a leg, and a place where people justified that cost in one way or another.

welcome to the US healthcare system.

bacause of the current system and lack of insurance for the last 10 years or so I have not really been to a doctor for quite sometime.

higher income jobs prior to 10 years ago I have had yes did have decent insurance but the costto us employees kept going up (and up)

now the "minimum wage" job I have now does "offer" health coverage (at a cost of $1300 per year) BUT has sever spending limits, sever payout $$$$ restrictions and very little coverage for the premeiums paid.

just as an example. several months ago I did a trip to the ER with a kidney stone problem. could not get rid of it for some reason. that cost me just over $5100. if I would have had my company's insurance it still would have cost me, at minimum, $4500 out of pocket. even if I had wanted to go to my GP who could refer to me a Uriologist who would have performed a procedure, I would have STILL had to pay like 95% out of pocket.

let me give you a rundown of the $$$'s I spent to go to the ER

in the ER the 2 CAT scans they did set me back $2000. the ER doctor cost me $500. the Radiologist who looked at my CAT scans cost me $700. jsut walking into the ER cost me $1300. drugs and labs cost me $500. the ER room was the cheapest charge at $150 for the 4 hour stay.

finally I passed just part (note I said part) of the stone (have pictures to confirm the shear size of this boulder that formed causing me soooo much pain)

10 years ago I had the same thing happen minus the CAT scan. the size of the stone was about the same (and about 2 week later I was able to pass it with lots of trouble and much blood letting) back then my total cost was only around $1500.

and people wonder why there is soo much debate and wailing about healthcare and the associated costs??????

[Greenday]

Other than specialists, I don't know too many doctors living in the million dollar lifestyle.

[muses_nightmare]

I am asking, if the shoe was on your foot, are you saying you would charge the bare minimum and keep to the smallest profit margin possible?

Correct me if I'm wrong DrFaroohk, but I don't think that's what he was saying. I think the main point is that the profit margins are huge, they don't have to be making the bare minimum but they don't need to gouge people in order to live million dollar lifestyles, and it's not the same as running a regular business, it's an essential service, unless there is no such thing as an essential service in the US?

[Ree]

It's rather frustrating, I've mentioned this several times and no one notices. Was my wording not clear? I don't understand. I'm not concerned with their expenses - covering expenses isn't an issue. Of course cover your expenses! I just question the profit margin.

I caught it.
I am asking, if the shoe was on your foot, are you saying you would charge the bare minimum and keep to the smallest profit margin possible?

I really have to wonder.

[linguist]

It's rather frustrating, I've mentioned this several times and no one notices. Was my wording not clear? I don't understand. I'm not concerned with their expenses - covering expenses isn't an issue. Of course cover your expenses! I just question the profit margin.

You apparently didn't pay attention to the part where I said it goes beyond covering expenses. There's also the fact that the truly dedicated are on call 24-7, leaving them little to no time for a personal life. There's a reason that the burnout and divorce rate among medical professionals is as high as it is. This doesn't deserve compensation?

Also, this just occurred to me. The costs of education continue beyond the initial medical school. Doctors are required to complete so many hours of continuing education per year in order to maintain their certification and licenses. Continuing education expenses are paid for out of their own pockets, as are the costs of repaying their student loans. To pay such out of the profits of the business (which are supposed to be put back into the business if the corporation is set up properly) is unethical if not illegal.