I don't want to argue about voting

[Rageaholic]

Voter apathy is a lot more complicated then right vs responsibility. I mean you have political alienation and political fatigue. Plus outright mistrust of the system.

Politically speaking, Americans are BOMBARDED with politics constantly and its all noise and bullshit. Its absolutely unrelenting and much of it is just straight up manipulation. I imagine if you've been voting for years and literally nothing has been accomplished even when your guy DOES win it would be easy to wear down your spirit for it all.

Pretty much this. With all the commercials and robocalls, it's hard to determine bullshit from fact.

[Gravekeeper]

Voter apathy is a lot more complicated then right vs responsibility. I mean you have political alienation and political fatigue. Plus outright mistrust of the system.

Politically speaking, Americans are BOMBARDED with politics constantly and its all noise and bullshit. Its absolutely unrelenting and much of it is just straight up manipulation. I imagine if you've been voting for years and literally nothing has been accomplished even when your guy DOES win it would be easy to wear down your spirit for it all.

[siead_lietrathua]

It's my right to vote, but I am not obligated to do so.... It's called free will.

and people that want to argue with you over it also have the right (free speech) and the free will to do so. that's what happens when opinions clash.

[Food Lady]

It's my right to vote, but I am not obligated to do so. The law does not state that I have to vote. I also am not required to state any reason good or bad, for not exercising a right. It's called free will.

[Gravekeeper]

maybe it's a culture gap then. in canada your have rights, but also responsibilities.

There's no culture gap. Our voter turn out numbers are barely better than the US. They use to be better decades ago but political apathy has worn away at Canada near as bad as it has in the US. In fact presidential voter turn out in the US has been steadily going up, while federal turn out in Canada has been stagnant since 2000.

Also the pages for US citizenship rights and responsibilities say the same thing about voting. =p

[siead_lietrathua]

maybe it's a culture gap then. in canada your have rights, but also responsibilities.
voting is one of those things that are both*. a responsible citizen will vote, even if it's only to put in a "null" and make their point heard.

i get the "you can give up a right!" argument. i GET that. i'm saying you should have a GOOD reason to do it. especially when the Null vote option is more powerful than simply not showing up at all.

*Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...section-04.asp
under Citizenship Responsibilities:
"Voting in elections — The right to vote comes with a responsibility to vote in federal, provincial or territorial and local elections."

[Food Lady]

If something is a *right,* as opposed to an obligation, then not doing it is also a right.

You say it better than I do.

[SkullKing]

SkullKing: If the majority of votes for a position are Null, does that mean none of the candidates are allowed to hold the office and that a new election is held with new condidates?

No, the candiate with the most non-blank, non-null votes wins. the null votes don´t really affect the result, but are a useful tool for the political parties to measure political opinion.

though it shoud be noted a situation like that has never happened and there are a lot of political parties.

[HYHYBT]

If something is a *right,* as opposed to an obligation, then not doing it is also a right.

[siead_lietrathua]

I'm not completely against voting, but I like that I'm allowed to choose whether I participate and for what reason.

i can respect that. all i'm saying is make sure it's a good reason. because voting is actually an important civic duty.
if it's simply not liking the canditates, even voting "null" makes a better point than simply being another person that couldn't bother to show up. Null votes are actually counted.

[Food Lady]

[QUOTE=siead_lietrathua;155783]i numbered the quote to make it easier to reply to.

all rights are something that should be cared about

I appreciate that others have made sacrifices for rights they thought were important, but that doesn't require me to feel a certain way about those rights. I have free will and a right (one I do care about) to choose which things to put my energy toward. This very conversation we're having now is the point of this whole thread.

Also, the trajectory of my life should be toward service and self-denial rather than a focus on my personal rights. I fail often, but I will strive for that until I die.


I'd like to add that as far as your #3, yes, voting can be somewhat helpful, and I have voted for that reason. But largely I like to try to get to people on an individual level (concerning societal ills, anyway). I'm not completely against voting, but I like that I'm allowed to choose whether I participate and for what reason.

[NecCat]

SkullKing: If the majority of votes for a position are Null, does that mean none of the candidates are allowed to hold the office and that a new election is held with new condidates?

[SkullKing]

Where I live voting is considered a duty. It is mandatory, and if you do not vote you can be fined and blocked from a lot of stuff.

That being said besides the voting options of the canditates, one can vote "Blank" or "Null".

A blank vote says one is content with either of the options and is ok with whichever one wins.

A Null vote is an statement that one does not consider any of the canditates worthy of their vote.

[siead_lietrathua]

I suppose it was a rhetorical question, but I'd like to answer anyway:
1) because it's a right I don't care about
2) because my life is largely not about my own rights, though there are a few I do claim
3) because politics don't fix the world's ills and never will

i numbered the quote to make it easier to reply to.

1) all rights are something that should be cared about, whether we use them or not, whether we deem them useful or not. because at one point, they were NOT rights. people had to fight for them, maybe even die for them. we shouldn't take that history lightly.
edit to add: hell people are STILL fighting for their right to vote in states where they are trying to put in place voter ID laws.
2) if you are a female (as your name indicates) living in modern western society... your rights have largely affected your life. before women's rights we were still sold on the altar of marriage as property of out fathers.
right to education. right to equal work opportunities. etc. while you may not think about the rights that are there, that doesn't mean they haven't shaped your life.
3) while the current political system may not fix all the ills... it could get WORSE if we don't stand up as citizens and make our voices heard. look at the rights they are still fighting over in the stated when it comes to reproduction, religion, etc.

[HYHYBT]

I have trouble finding enough direct information on a lot of the local races to make an informed decision, too. Often, there aren't any big official differences between candidates. Some, though, I can pick up indirectly from people who do know (especially if one of those running was untrustworthy in a previous position) and filter. Far from perfect, but then, what isn't. If that fails, there's always going with the incumbent if I like the way relevant things have been and, for some races, party affiliation. Those are at least *something* more than not voting or tossing a coin.