Chastity Bono's Coming Out again . .

[DGoddess]

It was roughly 20 years ago when this precious little girl who appeared with her famous parents on their weekly variety show came out of the closet and announced she was a lesbian.

Now he has announced he's undergoing the transitioning to become a male. The news media is in a frenzy over this news.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090612/en_afp/entertainmentuspeoplemusicbono

Personally, I think the biggest recipe for happiness is being honest with oneself and being comfortable in one's own skin.

If Chaz (as Chastity prefers to be called now) is happy and has the courage of his convictions to live his life as he chooses, then I'm happy for him.

[tabbyblack13]

I am happy to see someone with some notoriety not afraid of speaking out. From what I understand many people undergo transitions and are discriminated against. If it makes him happy then there should be no issue.

[the_std]

I can't really see anyone but the "GOD SAYS IT AIN'T RIGHT!" crowd having anything bad to say about this. He's becoming who he really is, and that's that.

[daleduke17]

Allow me to ask: who cares?

She's not even a celebrity. Why does the world give a shit if someone wants to have a sex change? It doesn't concern anybody. This is what is wrong with society. Society gives more of a damn about the daughter of a singer having a sex change instead of more important things.

[PepperElf]

daleduke - ROFL

good point.

bout the only time ive ever cared about a "celeb" getting a sex change was when i was just bored and went to wikipedia to look up a female musician i listen to... only to go "what the heck? who's this guy?... o wow, this is interesting" and frankly... i cared mostly cos i wanted to hear his new voice after i heard about it.

[Boozy]

An FYI: Transgendered individuals should be referred to by their preferred gender. So in this case, everyone should be using the pronoun "he" when referring to the person formerly known as Chastity Bono. This applies even in cases where the surgery hasn't been performed yet, or may never be performed. He is now living as a man and identifying as a man, regardless of the equipment he has.

[BlaqueKatt]

Allow me to ask: who cares?<snip>
Why does the world give a shit if someone wants to have a sex change?

Who cares? Those that are discriminated against by society due to being transgendered themselves.

why does the world "give a shit"-because someone who people look up to(yes there are people who admire Cher), can accept their daughter becoming their son, maybe someone who has been holding back who they really are can feel confident enough to be themselves.

At my call center I worked with 3 transgendered individuals-one MTF post-op, one MTF pre-op and one FTM pre-op. The MTF pre-op was forced to quit due to harassment for using the women's restroom. Yes some of the other women were "uncomfortable" and complained to HR. They told her she had to use the men's room, she then got flak for that because she wore dresses-that poor girl was reduced to tears on more than one occasion-there were exactly two of us that stood up for her, everyone else called her a "freak". She was 18 and one of the most friendly, outgoing, kind, and sweet girls you would ever want to meet(plus she had gorgeous long blonde curly hair-she let me braid it on lunch breaks), but no one could get past their gender issues. And no it was not L's issues, she knew who she was.

[Greenday]

I'm with daleduke. Why is this news? She wants a sex change? Go for it. But there's thing to talk about that's actually important. Like the war that's being completely ignored. Prop 8. Stuff that greatly affects the country.

[JuniorMintz]

But there's thing to talk about that's actually important. Like the war that's being completely ignored. Prop 8. Stuff that greatly affects the country.

On a related note, how unfair is it that Chaz can *finally* get married to his partner, but only after undergoing a major medical procedure?

Good thing he comes from a wealthy family. What of those who can't afford to have the same treatments?

[AFPheonix]

I'm with daleduke. Why is this news? She wants a sex change? Go for it. But there's thing to talk about that's actually important. Like the war that's being completely ignored. Prop 8. Stuff that greatly affects the country.

Why not? Surely today's media can carry multiple stories.

Most every cause usually needs someone with some pull to stick up for them, and although Chaz is a C-list celeb at best, he can at least put a very human face on a segment of society that isn't always well understood by the general public.

[daleduke17]

Why not? Surely today's media can carry multiple stories.

Most every cause usually needs someone with some pull to stick up for them, and although Chaz is a C-list celeb at best, he can at least put a very human face on a segment of society that isn't always well understood by the general public.

The problem I have with it is that the media is making this their main focus. She isn't even a D-List celebrity. What's her claim to fame? Singing on a television show a handful of times 30+ years ago and attempting to lose weight on a "reality" TV show.

On a related note, how unfair is it that Chaz can *finally* get married to his partner, but only after undergoing a major medical procedure?

If the area they live in still does blood tests, I don't think so. As long as the DNA shows the person is female, it would still be a same-sex marriage.

Good thing he comes from a wealthy family. What of those who can't afford to have the same treatments?

Then they don't get the procedures done.

[AFPheonix]

That's funny, a visit to several main news sites including Time and CNN have the Iranian election as the top story. I didn't even see Chastity's name on the front page at all. Hell, it wasn't even top news on What Would Tyler Durden Do, currently the top story on there is Megan Fox being single.

What media are you watching?

[Rubystars]

She will never truly be a he, regardless of what kind of surgeries happen. It will just be a woman with mutilated genitalia. Why people refer to this as changing the person's sex, I have never been able to figure out. Her sex will not change. She will just have a doctor mutilate her to appear more male.

[BlaqueKatt]

Why people refer to this as changing the person's sex, I have never been able to figure out.


they don't, Genital surgery is often referred to as "sex reassignment surgery", genital reconstructive surgery, or gender reassignment surgery. Differences in terminology can depend on the preference of the surgeon or recipient, or the nature of the surgery involved. Some consider “sex change surgery” to be disrespectful.

From WIKI



Transsexuals can have difficulty maintaining employment. Most find it necessary to remain employed during transition in order to cover the costs of living and transition. However, employment discrimination against transpeople is rampant and many of them are fired when they come out or are involuntarily outed at work. Transsexual people must decide whether to transition on-the-job, or to find a new job when they make their social transition. Finding employment can be especially challenging for those in mid-transition.


gender has nothing to do with biological sex-it was originally a linguistic word only.

gen·der

1 a: a subclass within a grammatical class (as noun, pronoun, adjective, or verb) of a language that is partly arbitrary but also partly based on distinguishable characteristics (as shape, social rank, manner of existence, or sex) and that determines agreement with and selection of other words or grammatical forms b: membership of a word or a grammatical form in such a subclass c: an inflectional form showing membership in such a subclass2

a: sex <the feminine gender> b: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex.

[JuniorMintz]

If the area they live in still does blood tests, I don't think so. As long as the DNA shows the person is female, it would still be a same-sex marriage.


I was married in the same state and we were not required to have our blood tested. To the best of my knowledge, those states that *do* require blood testing/physicals do so mainly to screen for STDs. http://www.usmarriagelaws.com/search/united_states/blood_test_requirements/index.shtml

Then they don't get the procedures done.

Well, yeah, that was kind of my point. How is it fair that a person can only marry their partner if they undergo major surgery like gender reassignment, but not if they are unable to do so?

[anriana]

It

Very classy!

[telecom_goddess]

She will never truly be a he, regardless of what kind of surgeries happen. It will just be a woman with mutilated genitalia. Why people refer to this as changing the person's sex, I have never been able to figure out. Her sex will not change. She will just have a doctor mutilate her to appear more male.


Don't go there...what this kind of surgery does for transgendered people is allow the outside to match the inside...so yes he WILL be male in mind, body and soul.

I have never had the desire for a sex change myself but can't COMPLETELY understand the desire....it's like making a wrong into something right. It's a correction.

[Flyndaran]

Don't go there...what this kind of surgery does for transgendered people is allow the outside to match the inside...so yes he WILL be male in mind, body and soul.
....

That mentality requires this sentence to be accurate.
He has a fully functional vagina.

I don't understand the whole idea of gender identity anyway.
If I woke up a woman, I would not demand expensive dangerous surgery to change back.
It's simply a mental illness which is far easier to treat through surgery than therapy.

[Boozy]

If I woke up a woman, I would not demand expensive dangerous surgery to change back.

I'm going to take a wild guess here and assume that the majority of men would at least strongly consider the surgery, in that situation.

At the very least, they would not start living life as a woman. They would continue to identify as male, as they have their whole lives.

I put forth this thought experiment to my husband. He said that he wouldn't immediately go for the surgery until he did the research, but he would "definitely seek a way back" to having male body. At the very least, he'd do the hormonal sex change (testosterone injections).

[Flyndaran]

I just don't get that.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
My changed into a functional woman's body wouldn't need fixing.
I'm comfortable being a dude, but I don't see anything wrong with women's bodies that need surgery.

[daleduke17]

Don't go there...what this kind of surgery does for transgendered people is allow the outside to match the inside...so yes he WILL be male in mind, body and soul.



"He" would only be male on the outside. The internal workings (DNA and all) would still be female.

[the_std]

Sex and gender are two completely different things. I personally believe that it is entirely possible to be a female, biologically speaking, but a man as the gender you identify with. The mind is much more complicated than the body. Why is it so terrible to think that there are people who do not fit into the lines their bodies have set for them?

And as to the implication that there is nothing wrong with these people? That there is nothing broken? They are broken because the person they are does not match the body they have, so they're trying to make it right. It is a terrible feeling, not to match your body. Why begrudge them the surgery they require to be themselves?

[daleduke17]

Why begrudge them the surgery they require to be themselves?

Because we can't have everything we want. A sex change is not a requirement, it's a want (there may be isolated incidents where it is medically required).

I want to have 20/20 uncorrected vision. I don't have the money for it, therefore I can't get it. It's not a requirement for me to live. I want to have the vision, just like they want to change sexes.

[the_std]

I wasn't talking about expense. I was talking about some of the opinions expressed in this thread that the surgery is never required, ever.

[telecom_goddess]

"He" would only be male on the outside. The internal workings (DNA and all) would still be female.

By "inside" I meant what's in the heart and mind, not dna :cool:

Because we can't have everything we want. A sex change is not a requirement, it's a want (there may be isolated incidents where it is medically required).

I want to have 20/20 uncorrected vision. I don't have the money for it, therefore I can't get it. It's not a requirement for me to live. I want to have the vision, just like they want to change sexes.

Oh I beg to differ....it is required to live, and have a fully functioning life. Too many people in this situation who aren't able to correct it end up committing suicide. It's more of a mental health condition I guess....technically. But that's the problem ....a lot of people discount mental issues of ANY sort as not a "real" illness.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

That mentality requires this sentence to be accurate.
He has a fully functional vagina.

.

I am pretty sure that while a transgendered woman is, obviously, unable to have children, she will indeed have a functioning vagina.

By the way, JuniorMintz, good point. We won't let same sex couples marry, but then give them all kind of abuse when they try to change into male-female couples. It just never ends.

[Flyndaran]

I am pretty sure that while a transgendered woman is, obviously, unable to have children, she will indeed have a functioning vagina.
....

That's not quite what I meant. I wasn't arguing against the vagina part. I just meant that referring to someone that was once male as he even after a full sex change is kind of silly.
Then again I wish that medical science really could create a function penis and not just for all the women wanting to be full males.
If and when that happens I will be completely comfortable referring to former shes as hes after such surgeries.

[Flyndaran]

"He" would only be male on the outside. The internal workings (DNA and all) would still be female.

Do you call those with complete testosterone insensitivity hes? Even though they appear completely female at birth and don't know until puberty and after medical evaluations that they are genetically male?
That seems needlessly hurtful.
It's quite possible that such instances are the reason for quite a few women's infertility.

[telecom_goddess]

I would call anyone "he" that identified as a male, and "she" that identified as a female. In other words what they want to be called.

I have a lot of respect for people who have to go through the tremendous work it takes to become the opposite gender. Not only that but they have to go through prejudice of all kinds too.

The odd thing is unless Chastity's sexual preferences change she will stop being gay and become straight :cool:

[Flyndaran]

But women who want to date "him" will have to be gay. I would be gay to like someone with a penis, so to like the vagina requires a woman to be gay no matter how P.C. you need to be.

[blas87]

Personally, I see people like Isis from ANTM, and I think freak show.

[Flyndaran]

Personally, I see people like Isis from ANTM, and I think freak show.

How so? She seems normal looking to me from the shots I could find on the net.

[AFPheonix]

But women who want to date "him" will have to be gay. I would be gay to like someone with a penis, so to like the vagina requires a woman to be gay no matter how P.C. you need to be.

Perhaps, but female sexuality is much more fluid than male sexuality is. I suspect there are many females who are really ok with having transgendered partners.

[Flyndaran]

Perhaps, but female sexuality is much more fluid than male sexuality is. I suspect there are many females who are really ok with having transgendered partners.

Eh, if someone completely looks like a female then I'll probably treat her like a female in social situations. For me personally, a woman would have to smell like a woman for me to have any chance at starting a romantic relationship.
Then again, I've seen some pictures of some rather sub par vaginoplasties that would gross me out if I was blindsided so to speak.

[anriana]

But women who want to date "him" will have to be gay. I would be gay to like someone with a penis, so to like the vagina requires a woman to be gay no matter how P.C. you need to be.

Would you be gay if you liked a shemale? If you enjoyed playing with zir breasts or stroking zir hair? Ze would have a penis, so that would make you gay, right?

Sexuality isn't all about the penis and vagina.

Take a hypothetical kinky person who enjoys being topped by men. They start dating a top with wide shoulders, a soul patch, a deep, manly voice, body hair, a ton of testosterone pumping through their system, and whatever other male markers you can envision. However, this person was born a woman and hasn't had genital surgery. Is this hypothetical person gay if they let their partner flog them? If the couple does penetrative play with a dildo? What if they break up and this person goes back to dating men-born-men. Are they now classified as bisexual?

[Flyndaran]

Men liking penises are gay.
Men liking vaginas are hetero. The other stuff is just kink.
I find it interesting that this is even up for discussion.

[anriana]

Men liking penises are gay.
Men liking vaginas are hetero. The other stuff is just kink.
I find it interesting that this is even up for discussion.

So the only thing you're attracted to in women is their vagina? Not any other signs of feminity? Are you only attracted to women after you do a check of their genitalia to make sure you won't be gay by finding them attractive?

If you don't want to debate it then don't reply to my posts. Don't imply that I'm a idiot because I don't agree with your narrow defintion of sexuality.

[Flyndaran]

So the only thing you're attracted to in women is their vagina? Not any other signs of feminity? Are you only attracted to women after you do a check of their genitalia to make sure you won't be gay by finding them attractive?

I'm a little odd. I find smell by far the most important sexually attractive feature in a woman. But even if I smelled a freaky male that smelled like an attractive woman, I would be dis-attracted by his male genatalia.
That's why movies like "The Crying Game" so horrifies most men.

If you don't want to debate it then don't reply to my posts. Don't imply that I'm a idiot because I don't agree with your narrow defintion of sexuality.

I meant no such thing. I was simply lamenting the fact that one more concept that I thought was commonly accepted, isn't.
I thought the contention was whether sexuality was innate or learned, not what gay and hetero even means. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.