Gay Exorcism?

[IDrinkaRum]

Small Connecticut church places video of "gay exorcism" on YouTube (http://news.aol.com/article/gay-exorcism-video/542577?icid=main|aimzones|dl2|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fn ews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fgay-exorcism-video%2F542577)

The elders of the church say the boy, who is at least 16-years-of-age, came to them for help, citing that he was dressing in women's clothing and didn't want to, the boy even collapsed in the church during a sermon.

Church says they've done nothing wrong.

[tabbyblack13]

This is scary. I can understand if a person is confused about their sexuality but doing and exorcism or "casting the evil spirit out" is too much.

[smileyeagle1021]

so, all I have to do to be straight is have a bunch of people bigger than me beat the crap out of me... oh if only I had known this a few years back... oh wait... it didn't work in 6th grade when my classmates did it... I wonder if it will work when a bully preacher does it */sarcasm

[Wingates_Hellsing]

*sigh*

That's all I have to say.

I don't care if you're a jock, a priest, or whatever. If you're beating the crap out of a little kid to *fix* him for being gay... you should learn exactly what happens when a .45 finds your skull.

It's self defense, damn it.

Aside: Am I the only one who believes in pre-emptive self defense?

[Flyndaran]

...
Aside: Am I the only one who believes in pre-emptive self defense?

That view has gotten quite a few abused spouses off of murder charges, so I'll say definitely not the only one.

Personally I wonder how easy it is for gay teens to legally run away and divorce their parents because of such fears.

[Cat]

"We believe a man should be with a woman and a woman should be with a man," the Rev. Patricia McKinney told The Associated Press. "We have nothing against homosexuals. I just don't agree with their lifestyle."

Oh please......:( I hate that line.


and I was proud of being from CT.....then shit like this happens.

[Flyndaran]

..
and I was proud of being from CT.....then shit like this happens.
Sadly, when ever you get a group of ten or more randomly selected people chances are you will get at least two sickos.
No place is safe, as even pacifistic group of budhists have devolved into fistfights.

[Slytovhand]

Wait.. what the..???

Where are you people reading your stuff from??

Cos I can't see anything that says he copped a beating...

Now, I'm not a great fan of a lot of things that go on on this planet, and in the normal course of things, I'd say this is just silly... well, ok, I will... this is just silly!

But... if that's what the boy thinks, and that's what his 'mentors' (for want of a better word) think, then what's the problem with what they did? (other than, they've obviously got no idea what they're doing, and they're idiots, but that's par for the course when it comes to religions...)

(btw, I think I'll just add, much to the annoyance of some, that yes, I do actually believe such things can occur - so, who knows??)

[Nyoibo]

If the kid asked for it, and the parents ok'd it, then no, the church did nothing wrong, they were simply complying with the wishes of the teen.
Slyt's right, no where did they say he copped a beating, the closest they saidto anything is that they had the kid in aa full nelson.

[Flyndaran]

That is true. Religion itself is not legally abuse no matter how street rat crazy.

[BroomJockey]

It is possible to consent to be assaulted and beaten, so long as you're alive at the end of the day. Someone goes in and says "please beat the evil out of me," you're legally clear to do so. Morally, that's a bit different. I'd say that putting someone in a full-nelson headlock counts as assault. I mean, did they even try a different method? :confused: Counsellings? I mean, the article says they've done this to him THREE TIMES. Obviously it's not working. If he really wants to change, being able to talk it out would be better than ritual and assaults.

[Slytovhand]

Well, yes, that is true BJ. But, I can certainly envisage situations where a Full Nelson (or even half, quarter, thirds, 7/16ths even) may be appropriate...

Now, let's just pretend for a minute that there was a 'demon' possessing the kid (which, as I've indicated, I believe is at least possible - granted, very f***ing unlikely, but still... the sun just might explode tomorrow!)... trying to get the demon out is going to make it want to fight to stay in, so yes, it would make sense to lock the kid so he can't do damage.

'Assault' - yes. 'Beating' - no.

That's all.

But, the thing about religion is - people do what they really and truly believe is the 'right' thing for them to do.... (until someone points out the error of their ways, in such a way that makes sense to them).

[anriana]

It is possible to consent to be assaulted and beaten, so long as you're alive at the end of the day. Someone goes in and says "please beat the evil out of me," you're legally clear to do so. Morally, that's a bit different.


Only in America.

[Arcade Man D]

Only in America.

Or any country that allows, say, a boxing match.

[Lace Neil Singer]

So, even if a person dies during an exorcism, it's still alright?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4107524.stm

Just wondering. Also, I don't have a link but one of my true crime books has a story about a woman who was ritually beaten and tortured over the course of several years to get out various "demons".

[BroomJockey]

So, even if a person dies during an exorcism, it's still alright?


No, you cannot consent to being killed.

[Savannah]

No, you cannot consent to being killed.

Technically you could say that you would rather be dead than under the devil's influence, and so consent to being killed if the exorcism didn't work. (Shaky legal ground, I know.) However, I suspect that someone who wanted to be killed because they thought they were possessed wouldn't be of sound mind, and therefore would not be able to consent (which I suspect is what you are saying).

If the kid asked for it, and the parents ok'd it, then no, the church did nothing wrong, they were simply complying with the wishes of the teen.

Initially, I thought that too, but I’m wondering if the teen actually had the information he would need to consent. The article doesn't say whether the teen's parents are members of this (or a similar) church. If he is 16-18 and has been raised his whole life in this kind of church, is he really able to consent to the exorcism? By which I mean, does he have any idea what other options might be available? Did he parents pressure him in any way? If someone chooses exorcism freely, then the church is within its rights to perform one if they want to, although I don't agree with them. However, if the person is pressured or uninformed, then I think that putting them through such a stressful situation is abusive.

[BroomJockey]

Technically you could say that you would rather be dead than under the devil's influence, and so consent to being killed if the exorcism didn't work. (Shaky legal ground, I know.)

Unless something drastic has changed, no, not shaky, NON-EXISTANT legal ground. You cannot give permission to be killed. The closest you can come is a Do Not Resuscitate order in a hospital. Anyone who causes you to die is guilty of a homicide, whether you said to go ahead or not.

[Savannah]

NON-EXISTANT legal ground.

True, now that I think about it. I was initially thinking of physician assisted suicide as being a situation where you could consent to being killed, but that REQUIRES that you be of sound mind and not depressed, so it doesn't apply to this situation. My bad; disregard that point :o

[BroomJockey]

I was initially thinking of physician assisted suicide

Even then, it's suicide, not them killing you. Just different enough for lawyers. Also, lawyers are weird.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Interesting link here: http://www.parmaq.com/truecrime/MurderBy.htm

Also, I can't remember the name of the guy, but this guy met another guy online who he paid to murder him. He also had his penis cut off and fried and ate it himself. O.o

[Slytovhand]

Interesting link here: http://www.parmaq.com/truecrime/MurderBy.htm

Also, I can't remember the name of the guy, but this guy met another guy online who he paid to murder him. He also had his penis cut off and fried and ate it himself. O.o

BJ, your "Lawyers are weird" just got trumped! :p

[BroomJockey]

BJ, your "Lawyers are weird" just got trumped! :p

Lawyers are still weird, and it seems in that case, there wasn't enough evidence to firmly prove that he pushed his friend, thus a lesser charge was leveled against him. Jury nullification, at the least.

[Savannah]

Even then, it's suicide, not them killing you. Just different enough for lawyers. Also, lawyers are weird.

*sigh* Yes. And you have to be terminally ill. I was tired, sorry. (I'll agree about the lawyers, too!)

Even if you want someone to kill you and therefore consent, it pretty much never ends well for the person who killed you under the current laws. (Besides, if you eat your own penis, you probably aren't sane enough to agree to much of anything! :eek:) Getting off topic...

[Flyndaran]

*.. (Besides, if you eat your own penis, you probably aren't sane enough to agree to much of anything! :eek:) Getting off topic...

Not if it's your religion to eat your body parts. In the U.S. saying, "It's my religion!" is like saying, "A wizard did it." It automatically wins nearly every argument.
See still on topic. ;)

[Lace Neil Singer]

Great Simpsons reference there. ;)

Anyway, I wish I could remember that guy's name; I've looked but I can't find the story. -.- It was pretty big, tho; it's got to be there if only I could find the right thing to google.

[joe hx]

so what are they going to do when they exorcise this gay demon out of the boy only to discover that the boy himself is gay too?

[Slytovhand]

so what are they going to do when they exorcise this gay demon out of the boy only to discover that the boy himself is gay too?

Exorcise the other demon??