Reclaiming Offensive Words

[anriana]

Words that I've heard reclaimed: Queer, dyke, fag, nigger, oreo, banana, twinkie, JAP (Jewish use), bitch, slut. I'm sure there are a few more. I like the idea of reclaiming words. If someone were to call me queer I could just smile and say "I know! Want to see my legs?" and watch their head explode, instead of being upset by it.

I don't have a problem with allies using the word queer, because it's not entirely offensive. It can just mean genderqueer and can be useful to describe someone or something. I feel the same about most of the other words - they all have specific meanings.

I don't feel that way about fag and nigger though. They are both just offensive words and non-gays people shouldn't use fag to refer to gay people/ non- blacks shouldn't say nigger. In American English, they don't have any use other than rude ways to refer to gays/blacks. However, I know lots of white people are upset that black people have a special word they aren't allowed to use.

So, should everyone be allowed to use whatever words they want without others being offended? Is it not fair for a group to reclaim a word and be upset when other groups use it?

[powerboy]

Is it not fair for a group to reclaim a word and be upset when other groups use it?


No it is not fair. The perfect example is one that you listed. About black people calling each other niggers. They call each other that, but when another race does. Oh the shit hit the fan. They call that person racist. But then they turn around and get to call white people honkeys, crackers or what not. Is that fair? Fuck no.

[BroomJockey]

Is it not fair for a group to reclaim a word and be upset when other groups use it?

I understand the power and process of "reclaiming" words, but frankly, no, I don't believe it is fair. It reeks of a double-standard. "This group is fine to use it, this group isn't" purely because of race, or sexual/gender identity. If you're going to be offended by a word, then you should be offended by its use in all cases, no matter who's saying it. If you're not offended by someone of your group using it, because of *how* they're using it, then you should be offended when someone else of a different group uses it the same way.

Basically, I take the same position I did in the swearing thread. It's not the word, it's the feelings behind it.

[Pedersen]

I don't feel that way about fag and nigger though. They are both just offensive words and non-gays people shouldn't use fag/ non- blacks shouldn't say nigger. They don't have any use other than rude ways to refer to gays/blacks. However, I know lots of white people are upset that black people have a special word they aren't allowed to use.

define:fag (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Afag)

act as a servant for older boys, in British public schools
labor: work hard; "She was digging away at her math homework"; "Lexicographers drudge all day long"
fagot: offensive term for an openly homosexual man
tire: exhaust or get tired through overuse or great strain or stress; "We wore ourselves out on this hike"
cigarette: finely ground tobacco wrapped in paper; for smoking


That's a mighty versatile single use word you've got there.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Doesn't even come close to fuck though, that one's the ultimate.

Don't really care about words myself, I'd just rather people wouldn't be rude to each other. But they're going to do it anyway so I'm happy telling them to go screw themselves when they do... isn't free speech great?

[DesignFox]

If you're going to use the word yourself, then no, you don't get a pass to be offended when someone else uses it in the same context.

If the word is offensive, then it is offensive when EVERYONE uses it.

And I do agree with BroomJockey that the intent, not the word itself, is what determines whether or not I would be offended.

[Flyndaran]

Ahhh, I can't call myself, an irish/scottish/hispanic, a McCspic?

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Ahhh, I can't call myself, an irish/scottish/hispanic, a McCspic?

Actually you can so long as you let me call you Flyndaran McCspic :D

[Flyndaran]

Actually you can so long as you let me call you Flyndaran McCspic :D

Hey, that's my word, you bigot. ;)

[Lace Neil Singer]

What, so I can't call a cigarette a fag? It's slang over here; hardly anyone uses it to mean a disparaging word for a homosexual. XD

[anriana]

Thanks for pointing out that I was only thinking of American English.

[smileyeagle1021]

fair.

no, no it aint... neither was the best scholarship offer I received being from Utah State rather than SacState, nor me not being a straight white mormon in Utah, nor a million other things... guess what, y'alls just got to deal with a lack of fairness.

Oh, and at least from my experience, I have yet to meet a black guy who has been offended by my use of the word 'nigger'... why, because the only times I have said it have been when it is around only those who I know well enough to know I'm not using it as a derogatory, otherwise I don't go within 10 feet of that word. Same thing with dyke, I know some women who I can use that word with and not cause offense, otherwise, don't go anywhere near it. Ditto beaner. And guess what, I have friends, both gay and straight who use fag around me without me getting offended, because I know they mean no offense... the only time fag/homo/queer/etc bother me is if either the person blatantly intended offense, or the person using it doesn't comprehend what that word can mean. Reclaimed words aren't solely the domain of the group that has 'reclaimed' them, but those who are also supporters and friends of people in that group. So really, I'm going to have to go against the grain and say I see nothing wrong with reclaiming offensive words.

[BroomJockey]

So really, I'm going to have to go against the grain and say I see nothing wrong with reclaiming offensive words.

I'm fairly certain you've managed to misinterpret my position, especially with your selective quote of a single word of my post.

My position IS: reclaim a word. Go for it. But if YOU are using it in such a fashion, you don't get to be mad if I use it the same way. After all, can't I, as a supporter of your general cause (because I do support most causes. I'm a causeoholic), help you reclaim that word? Why do I need to be part of that specific group to do so? So, if I jokingly called you a homo, after you said "betcha that guy looks good in a speedo" or something like that, there shouldn't be a difference between my saying it like a joke, and your gay friends doing so.

After all, the only reasons I can see for not letting anyone use a word outside a specific group is either the denial of empathy (aka the "you don't know the trials the group has gone through so you can't say it" defence) or the tacit implication that anyone outside that group is automatically racist/homophobic/etc.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Hmmm... methinks Smiley and Broom have the same position but different wording... or something to that effect. (or is it affect?)

As for my own input, I will say that there are definitely those who are going to take offense at something and while not mandated outright it is polite to avoid offending people.

Still though, I'm more leaning to the side of go ahead and say it but if someone does take offense than just smooth it over in any way you wish and make a mental note for the future.

[smileyeagle1021]

Hmmm... methinks Smiley and Broom have the same position but different wording... or something to that effect. (or is it affect?)



pretty much, the difference is that I think people who are going to use them should be aware of the word and who they are using it around... and yes, if Broom were to call me a homo or a fag after I make a comment about Anton Yelchin in a speedo I won't be offended, but if one of my coworkers were to say it at work, no matter how well we get along, that is not the type of thing to be said at work no matter who it's by.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Not having had a conventional job, I wouldn't really know. But it seems like the whole 'business atmosphere' changes lots of things.

I'll be the first if possible to back up the awareness thing. Half of being polite is knowing who you're talking to.

[Boozy]

If the word is offensive, then it is offensive when EVERYONE uses it.

And I do agree with BroomJockey that the intent, not the word itself, is what determines whether or not I would be offended.

But those two statements contradict each other. I find the word "bitch" offensive if a customer calls me one, but not when my sister does. Because the intent is different. Sometimes a word is offensive, sometimes it isn't, and it all depends on who is using it and in what context.

[BroomJockey]

But those two statements contradict each other.

Not if you read the first statement to read "...uses it. In that way."

[Wingates_Hellsing]

Which, I gather, is how it was meant to be read :p.

[DesignFox]

Not if you read the first statement to read "...uses it. In that way."

Which, I gather, is how it was meant to be read :p.

Yes. Thank you :o

[Flyndaran]

People wishing to take offense will find a way.
Do you remember the guy that got offended because a white city political member used the word, "blackhole"?

[protege]

Do you remember the guy that got offended because a white city political member used the word, "blackhole"?

No, but I do remember when a city political member here used the word "niggardly." That went over well :rolleyes:

[smileyeagle1021]

Do you remember the guy that got offended because a white city political member used the word, "blackhole"?
No, but I do remember when a city political member here used the word "niggardly." That went over well :rolleyes:

the terrifying part about all this, is not only can I remember the outrage over those, but I can remember the lack of outrage in Utah when a state senator did make a legitimate racist comment (his exact words were "this bill is ugly like a black baby")

[BroomJockey]

(his exact words were "this bill is ugly like a black baby")

Well, you see, that comment is very easily justified. I mean, I can't believe you didn't see the true meaning behind this comment sooner. Obviously, that man was a complete imbecile and it's very wrong of you to criticise him for his condition. ;)

[Kalli]

I'm normally an avid side-taker, but I can truly see both sides of this argument.

One one side, I really genuinely dislike how much people get their knickers in a knot over words, personally I just can't understand it and as far as I'm concerned, people should just get over it, choose to ignore the words they don't like (or the person who spoke them altogether, if the words were said in a spiteful way).

On the other hand, I suppose it's not that hard to simply avoid using certain words that you know people may find offensive. I mean, I don't think anyone should be offended by me calling my best friend a fag (or myself a fag hag), or by saying "nigga WHUT!?", but I can understand the argument that it's not too much to ask of me to choose my words with a little bit of care in certain company.

With regard to "reclaiming" offensive words, I can't possibly think of anything more hypocritical. I just cannot understand the logic behind fighting so hard to remove a word from everyone's vocabulary, only for your group to pick it up and use it amoungst yourselves, while still condemning anyone outside your group for using it (even in the same context as you would use it within your group).

[Pedersen]

My favorite personal example of a "reclaimed word" has got to be "geek". Yep, I'm a geek, through and through (I know, big shocker there, hope you all didn't injure yourselves while falling down over the shock).

Honestly, it doesn't matter if someone calls me a geek. It doesn't matter their attitude when they do so. Thing is: They're right. I know it. And since I'm comfortable with who I am (and even go so far as to like myself as a geek), and since I don't want to change the fact that I am a geek, well, let them call me a geek.

Hell, I'll help them.

Go ahead. Call me a geek. Be as hateful as you want. I don't mind. If you're hateful about it, all you've done is tell me that you're not someone I want to have amongst my friends, so you've saved us both a bunch of time.

Yep. I'm a geek. And if you don't like it? Well, quite frankly, that's your problem. Not mine.

[smileyeagle1021]

With regard to "reclaiming" offensive words, I can't possibly think of anything more hypocritical. I just cannot understand the logic behind fighting so hard to remove a word from everyone's vocabulary, only for your group to pick it up and use it amoungst yourselves, while still condemning anyone outside your group for using it (even in the same context as you would use it within your group).

I can... it's a guilt tactic... it's to remind the outsiders what they (generic) did in the past and try to make them feel guilty for it... doesn't make it right, but that's the logic I've seen in most of the people who do that.

-snip-

Yep. I'm a geek. And if you don't like it? Well, quite frankly, that's your problem. Not mine.

oh Pedersen, why must you be straight :p

and I'm the same way with both my geekiness and my fag tag... you have a problem with it, that's your own damned problem :)

[lovlybones]

I would say that having only one group be able to say the derogatory term would be racist in itself.

If it was a derogatory word in history to begin with there is bound to be someone who hasn't "reclaimed" the meaning yet and will be offended by any use of it.

[Kalli]

Another example of such hypocrisy are minority-only benefits and clubs and groups etc, especially within schools. I mean, if someone made a "Whites-only after school activities group" can you imagine the fucking drama? However, they have something similar for Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders only etc.

This sends a message of segregation to both groups.

[anriana]

Here's a list of the ethnicities in Australia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia#Ethnicities

I'm going to highlight:

British Australian
Greek Australian
Italian Australian
European Australian
Macedonian Australian


Notice something about these groups? They're all primarily White yet it would be silly to lump their cultures together. Yet, that's what you want to do. Do you know why there would be drama because of it? Because it's racist to act as though all White people have a shared culture regardless of where they/their ancestors immigrated from.

And no, it is not segregation to have an extracurricular group to celebrate one's ethnic heritage.

[Flyndaran]

Another example of such hypocrisy are minority-only benefits and clubs and groups etc, especially within schools. I mean, if someone made a "Whites-only after school activities group" can you imagine the fucking drama? However, they have something similar for Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islanders only etc.

This sends a message of segregation to both groups.

That makes sense as long as whites are an equivilently small minority as those getting assistance.
But otherwise I agree that things like affirmative action are inherently racist.

[Nyoibo]

Here's a list of the ethnicities in Australia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia#Ethnicities

I'm going to highlight:

British Australian
Greek Australian
Italian Australian
European Australian
Macedonian Australian


Notice something about these groups? They're all primarily White yet it would be silly to lump their cultures together. Yet, that's what you want to do. Do you know why there would be drama because of it? Because it's racist to act as though all White people have a shared culture regardless of where they/their ancestors immigrated from.

And no, it is not segregation to have an extracurricular group to celebrate one's ethnic heritage.

Ok, want to go and see how many different Aboriginal groups there are now?

[RecoveringKinkoid]

If you're going to use the word yourself, then no, you don't get a pass to be offended when someone else uses it in the same context.

If the word is offensive, then it is offensive when EVERYONE uses it.

.

I agree. Especially in the case of the enn word. It gets thrown around casually, then some idiot like Don Imus uses it and everyone goes beserk. Than he is able, and rightly so, to claim it's not offensive if blacks can use it.

It's an incredibly lame argument, but then, people like Imus are incredibly lame.

You throw around offensive words, you kind of weaken your argument that the word is offensive.

Decent people do not use the word "nigger." I don't care what ethnicity they are.

[Kalli]

Here's a list of the ethnicities in Australia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Australia#Ethnicities

I'm going to highlight:

British Australian
Greek Australian
Italian Australian
European Australian
Macedonian Australian


Notice something about these groups? They're all primarily White yet it would be silly to lump their cultures together. Yet, that's what you want to do. Do you know why there would be drama because of it? Because it's racist to act as though all White people have a shared culture regardless of where they/their ancestors immigrated from.

And no, it is not segregation to have an extracurricular group to celebrate one's ethnic heritage.

This is just nitpicking.

I didn't say all whites had a shared culture. I said if a majority formed a group that excluded anyone based on race, they would be labeled racist. However if a minority forms a group based on race, it's called liberation.

You took my example and blew it completely out of context AND proportion. If I wanted to be absolutely technically correct with what I meant when I said "whites only", I would have been. It wasn't necessary to illustrate my point.

[Rapscallion]

Ah, one of my pet peeves. There are many who think highly of Oprah, but I'll never forget the time she insisted that if she used the word 'nigger' when talking to black friends and relations, but that a white person using it was automatically racist. No idea if I could find the Youtube link, but if people are interested then I'll try and find it.

The word 'nigger' has always been used to segregate between groups, and not in a nice way. Although the word 'geek' mentioned above made me think hard about my position, geekdom is something that has proved to have distinct abilities that have created technological benefits due to the nature of the people. Being black is a matter of heritage and not of differing abilities - there are geeks of differing skin colours.

I'm firmly of the opinion that the word needs to be laid to rest by everyone for a long time until it becomes a footnote in history without the emotion.

However, I also know that human nature will always find a new term to use to offend against a group - the sheer number of times the terms for a physical handicap has been redefined is testament to this. I also know that if a group of one group tries to reclaim a word for themselves when it had been used against them, another group of that group will refuse to do so.

People (not the people here) make this sort of debate moot. Someone's going to try and reclaim a word, others are going to be offended, some are going to use it offensively, and the government is pretty much going to be powerless to work out what people actually want.

Rapscallion

[Flyndaran]

I agree. Especially in the case of the enn word. It gets thrown around casually, then some idiot like Don Imus uses it and everyone goes beserk. Than he is able, and rightly so, to claim it's not offensive if blacks can use it.
...

I thought Imus got in trouble for referring to a group of female black athletes as nappy headed, not the real "N" word.

Ah, one of my pet peeves. There are many who think highly of Oprah, ...

Oprah is an ignorance spewing gullible douche.
She has promoted so freaking many urban legends as true that I would pop a blood vessel is I was forced to watch her.

[BroomJockey]

Oprah is an ignorance spewing gullible douche.


Case in point: When 4chan tricked Oprah in to saying the phrase "over 9000 penises."

[Flyndaran]

Case in point: When 4chan tricked Oprah in to saying the phrase "over 9000 penises."

Or when she promoted the nonsense that vaccinations cause autism.

[DesignFox]

Or when she promoted the nonsense that vaccinations cause autism.

And plenty of people are still paranoid about this... :rolleyes:

[Flyndaran]

And plenty of people are still paranoid about this... :rolleyes:

Far be it from me to call idiots bad names, but... ;)

[Peppergirl]

Oprah is an ignorance spewing gullible douche.
She has promoted so freaking many urban legends as true that I would pop a blood vessel is I was forced to watch her.


One of the rare times we actually agree on something! :D She's a hypocrite too. Can't stand her.

[kokopuff3]

Speaking as a black woman, the word "nigger" is not a word I would reclaim...to me, that word is demeaning, and I would be equally offended if a fellow black person used that word in my presence as if a person from another race used it. While some people may believe that words only have as much power as people allow them to have (not talking to anyone in particular), it is beyond comprehension to me why ANYBODY would want to reclaim a word that has been used to demean, for centuries. Just my thoughts, hopefully it makes sense.

[Rapscallion]

I'm with you on this one.

Rapscallion

[jackfaire]

As I recall didn't that word come from the word Ignorant?

[KnitShoni]

Speaking as a black woman, the word "nigger" is not a word I would reclaim...to me, that word is demeaning, and I would be equally offended if a fellow black person used that word in my presence as if a person from another race used it. While some people may believe that words only have as much power as people allow them to have (not talking to anyone in particular), it is beyond comprehension to me why ANYBODY would want to reclaim a word that has been used to demean, for centuries. Just my thoughts, hopefully it makes sense.

I feel the exact same way. Problem is, the loudest, most visible Blacks are "reclaiming" a word none of the rest of us want.

[kokopuff3]

@ KnitShoni: Yes, that's the sad truth..and it will continue until more of us speak out against it.

@ jackfaire: I honestly don't know what the source of the word is. It's just not something I would ever want to reclaim, as if it were a source of pride/something to be proud of. :)

[Cat]

I haven't read through the whole thread yet (I'll do that at work...heehee)

But can I take back "Yank," "Yankee," and "Nutmeger?" Never got why they were insults..... :)

[McDreidel09]

As I recall didn't that word come from the word Ignorant?

That is exactly right. Slaves were called (I hate using this word, but this is for educational purposes) niggers because they were "ignorant". The lower class white people were called that. It just evolved into a word that referred to black people in a derogatory way.

[Rebel]

I haven't read through the whole thread yet (I'll do that at work...heehee)

But can I take back "Yank," "Yankee," and "Nutmeger?" Never got why they were insults..... :)

I have to admit that in my part of Aussie land we sometimes use Yank or Yankee as an insult. But usually as a good natured insult/ribbing. We sometimes also call you a Seppo or Septic (usually more British populated areas) coz rhyming slang is fun.

Some offensive words that are being reclaimed in Australia;
-Wog --> an southern eastern European immigrant or an Australian of southern eastern European ancestory (eg. Italians, Greek, Croatians, Serbians, etc).
-Pom/Pohm --> Property of Her Magesty. People from England. Ususally referred to as Whinging Pom's coz they're always thought to be whining about the hot weather.
-Bogan/Ocker --> Person considered to be of lower class and poor education.

Most of the time the people use them in jest towards themselves. The words just lose their power when the people it's aimed towards enjoy the use of it as well.
That being said, there are still some words that should never be used (Abo, Towelhead, Paki, Boong, Coon - unless in reference to the cheese). Those words are still highly offensive and should just not ever be uttered.

[jackfaire]

That is exactly right. .

Yays my edumacation was gud :D


On topic I don't like the words Faggot or Queer yet so many are wanting to reclaim them honestly I feel everytime one of us uses them it makes us sound stupid.

Question how is it reclaiming a word as in taking it back if the word was never used by your group in the first place?

[Fryk]

Shows what I know. I always thought "that word" came from southerners who couldn't say "negro" right.

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

My son ran afoul of the reclamation of words. He was raised in New England where there are few African-Americans and the ones that you do see aren't a part of the urban culture that frequently uses the word Nigger.

Also, we did a very good job at making our children see past the differences of skin and to look at the people within. So he wasn't prepared for the racial tensions commonly found in the urban culture. This was our failing and he paid the price.

So when we had to move to Maryland and a school district where he was in a very distinct minority (out of 600 students, he was one of 20 white children) and he heard the phrase "What's up my nigga?" bounced around as a greeting that was as common as "Dude! 'sup!" was in the school he came from...he did the unthinkable. He uttered "What's up my nigga?" to a friend that he had made a week prior.

In the end he had a broken nose, a missing pair of teeth (thank god they were baby teeth) a five-day suspension and a hearing to consider if he would be expelled from the school.

We fought the school board for that area on that issue. I had recorded the sounds of the hallway on a digital voice recorder while waiting on the hearing and pointed out the misunderstanding caused by our lessons on acceptance and the fact that if all variations of the word "nigger" were verboten, then they need to stand out in the halls and start chucking the students out of the facility in droves. Then I played my voice recorder.

We won, but we were glad that he only had that one year in Elementary School before he could go to a different school. The school personnel was less than helpful towards my son at best and at worst was openly hostile.

[jackfaire]

Yeah that is definitly another side of reclamation you can't reclaim a word as a now positive thing and then when others not of your tribe use it in that positive way treat it like it's still the most offensive thing you have ever heard.