Supernatural experiences?

[Boozy]

This post prompted me to start this thread:

As one that likes to think scientifically, I really wish I had an undeniable supernatural experience. My girlfriend believes she did, and so do many of my relatives. Sadly, I have never witnessed anything that cannot be explained more easily by normal means. If there really is weird stuff happening, then why does it never hit us skeptics? Seems rather odd.

I'm a definite skeptic myself, but that was not always the case. It used to be that I believed in god, angels, miracles, etc. And I was always so envious of those who claimed to have experienced these things first hand.

It took me a while to realize that I just wasn't built that way. Which is to say, I've had the same sort of "weird" experiences as anyone else, but I'd immediately write them off as tricks of the eye, being over-tired, or just me dreaming. For example, many people who experience sleep paralysis (also known as "the Hag" or "the Devil sitting on your chest") think they've had a supernatural experience. But I know better, so when it happened to me, I couldn't see it as a magical experience.

Skeptics don't have supernatural experiences because their minds immediately explain things using science. Believers explain things using their faith, so the funny little things our minds and bodies do to us all take on a greater significance in their minds.

[Cats]

There's more than one defintion of skeptic...are we talking in terms of someone who is in doubt, or someone merely questioning the validity?

No one ever likes to admit they might be wrong, which is why I personally think that a questioning skeptic won't tend to admit the possibility of a supernatural experience. I'm not sure about my dad, but I know my immediate family, which is largely non-religious and very much into science, believes in the supernatual to some extent. I don't believe they HAVE to be mutually exclusive.

People believe things based on where they put their faith...be is science, religious beliefs, or a combination of both. If you are DEAD SET on believing something, expecially if it cannot be 100% without doubt proven one way or the other, chances are, you are going to stick with your believes even if they evidence may not be in your favor.

For example, You could deny Tigers exist and the belief they that do is some kind of consiracy or whatever. I could show you a picture...you could come back and say it's been photoshop'd. I could take you to see one, you could claim it's either incredible animatronics or there's some other large cat species made to LOOK like tigers. If you're dead set on the fact they aren't real, you'll find every excuse in the book to explain to back up your belief before admitting that you might be wrong. (and I'm using the plural you here, I'm not targeting you or anything Boozy)

I think it's important to be a little openminded. It's okay to question and okay to have doubts. Somethings can be explained, others can't, and maybe they're not meant to be, and maybe that's the entire point. I think life would be a bit boring if we were all-knowing and all-seeing.

Just because a skeptic writes some potential supernatural event as something scientific, doesn't mean they're right, and the same goes for the believers not seeing something as potential something that has a simple explaination. Everyone sees the world in a different light.

[BroomJockey]

Skeptics don't have supernatural experiences because their minds immediately explain things using science. Believers explain things using their faith, so the funny little things our minds and bodies do to us all take on a greater significance in their minds.

I kinda resent the implication that belief in supernatural = religious, but I'll leave that alone as a quirk of language.

I'm a skeptic. Yet I also believe in supernatural experiences. Why? Because I've had things happen to me that science cannot explain. A few examples.

1. The tamest is the breeze in a closed room. Doors closed, no windows, no fans, central heating is turned off (it was the middle of July!). Yet a breeze strong enough to ruffle my hair hits my face. And I was alone in the room. Can't think of any way to explain that one.

2. A bit stronger, though slightly more explainable - I was walking down the street, when I felt a tug at my belt loop on the back strong enough to pause me in my step, and someone said my name in my ear. I turn around, and there's no one within 20 feet of me. Possible explanation: strange acoustics bring some word that sounds like my name to my ear, and warp it so it sounds close, and my shirt bunched in such a fashion so that it hooked my belt loop and pulled it. After all, my shirt was untucked. Possible, but not exactly likely.

3. Alone in the house, upstairs. Hear radio come on downstairs. Figure roommate has come home. Needed to talk to roommate. Ran down stairs. Radio gets louder. Call for roommate. No answer. No one in living room. Figure he's in the kitchen. Radio sounds like it's in kitchen too. Very clear. Turn corner from living room to be able to see in to kitchen. No one there, and radio noise disappears. And I mean the exact second. Clarity of radio makes it unlikely that it was someone in the adjoining townhouse, or outside. Timing of cessation of noise is unlikely. Is it possible? Yeah. But it's a piss poor excuse.

Oh, and there was no radio in the kitchen, so it didn't just lose power or anything. Events like these keep my mind open to the existence of the supernatural outside the realm of religion.

[DesignFox]

I had a similar experience with a radio in college. Scared the ever loving crap out of me and my room mate. :o Radio just turned on in the middle of the night and neither one of us could turn it off. I had to un-plug it and take the batteries out. It only did that once, and not again. So. No clue what was up with that. I suppose it could have been an electrical thing...

This happened at the same time our door would start mysteriously getting "stuck." Nothing we could do would open the door. I had one of the nuns come down and she got the door opened with little trouble. *shrug* Don't know what that was about either.

Separately, I think we would have thought nothing of it. Both events together, faked us out a bit.

I think better examples would be when my friends and I would play around with the Ouija board.

To this day I can't explain some of the shit we experienced with that. (answering questions only the person asking would know the answers to, finding people in random rooms in the house when not a single person touching the board knew where that person was hiding, feeling strange spots of "cold" in random places even in the summer...etc.)

Then there was the time we floated someone above our heads doing that "light as a feather stiff as a board" game....that was weird.

[Flyndaran]

Part of me says that you guys should get help for your halucinations/delusions. The other part says, "Lucky fucks!"

I've never witnessed anything that cannot be explained more easily by natural phenomena. I look for the odd. I just haven't seen any, at all, nada, zip, jack squat. Why am I an anti-supernatural vortex?
My experiences would make me a fool to believe in it, just like if someone else had experienced it they would be a fool not to believe.

[Lachrymose]

1. The tamest is the breeze in a closed room. Doors closed, no windows, no fans, central heating is turned off (it was the middle of July!). Yet a breeze strong enough to ruffle my hair hits my face. And I was alone in the room. Can't think of any way to explain that one.



Isn't that kind of a God of the Gaps argument? I can't explain it, therefore it's supernatural?

[BroomJockey]

Isn't that kind of a God of the Gaps argument? I can't explain it, therefore it's supernatural?

No, Occam's Razor. The impossible has been eliminated. Therefore, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

And if you can come up with a natural explanation, I'd love to hear it. I'm fully accepting that there might be an explanation I've not considered. As I said, I'm a skeptic, though "scientific" might be a better choice of word.

[Dreamstalker]

There's a ghost in my grandmother's house. We've all seen her (the first time I saw her, I waved and said hi), and given matching descriptions without knowing what the others said (or even knowing they had seen her at all).

When my grandparents first moved into that house, my mom heard heavy footsteps upstairs one night...nobody else was home (all the bedrooms were on the ground floor). There was nothing up there that could have made the sound (door, shutter, etc...mom says it was definitely "someone" wearing heavy boots). It was definitely male. That presence vanished when we found an Ouija board in the attic and sold it to a suitably creepy-looking guy.

I had what could be called a precognitive flash one summer on Nantucket--clear blue sky, for no good reason I did not want to get on the ferry to go home that morning (highly unusual as I would typically be the first one out on deck watching everything). We do anyway, get a few miles out and BAM, stuck in the middle of a hurricane that seemed to just drop on top of us--we were still close enough to the island that we were able to turn back. A few windows broke and I saw a trawler not too far away from us getting tossed around like a bathtub toy in a washing machine :eek: How could I know under a clear sky without looking at any weather reports that it would be a bad idea to go out?

A radio in the house dying at random, the wiring is fine (although other appliances in that same area have suffered the same problem) and the radio is also fine if moved. This only seems to happen sporadically, I have yet to pin down a specific set of circumstances.

Another radio will only come in clearly if I'm in the room when I'm standing in a specific spot. Mom can be moving all over the place, as soon as I come through the doorway the radio starts to fuzz out and only when I'm in a specific spot will it get good reception (if I leave the room it's fine again).

I've tried and failed to give scientific explanations for some supernatural/paranormal stuff that I've either witnessed or been a part of. When usually conducting an impromptu investigation for someone, I try to rule out mundane causes first (cold spots, EM radiation, etc).

Am I "religious"? Not really.
Do I believe there's something else out there? Yes.
Do I think that science has explained everything? No.

[Flyndaran]

I hate the idea that such important outside of modern science things can be so common for others yet never once have happened to me.
Does everyone "blessed" with experiencing the supernatural believe that some like me can somehow have the ability to shortcircuit the spooky?
Probabilities seem to suggest that my just being unlucky is quite unlikely.
Both my parents, all of my grandparents that I've talked to about it, the brother that I've talked to about it, and my girlfriend have all experienced what they see as the supernatural. Why not me?

[IDrinkaRum]

Mr. Rum & I took a ghost walk in Leesburg (VA) one year. The gentleman who was giving the tour was part of a ghost hunters group. (Can't remember the exact name of the group, but if you google Lessburg and ghost tours, I think the name will pop up).

He explained it like this: Those who have had supernatural experiences also have a larger "aura" than most people. There have been instances where Family #1 has had a haunting in a house, they sell it to Family #2. Family #2 never ever sees/experiences any of the hauntings that Family #1 has had. Family #2 sells the house to Family #3. Out of the members of Family #3, only 1 experiences the hauntings and all others are oblivious to them.

Also, the gentleman said that those who can't use most "modern" technology are more susceptible(sp?) to seeing/experiencing ghosts/otherwordly things. He interviewed one young lady who couldn't use battery operated watches (they always stopped). Another person he talked to, had problems with computers either stopping and re-starting or happenings. Both of these people had experienced hauntings.

Again, he said it was because of the "aura" or energy fields of certain people. The larger your energy field, the more sensitive you are to certain things.

I've experienced odd happenings.

One was at the George Mason house in Northern Virginia. It's very haunted. Mainly the bathrooms (sometimes people have reported seeing a vision of George Mason himself in the mirrors of the bathrooms with his throat cut - possibly while shaving).

I had nothing that dramatic. I just heard footsteps on a brick walk way behind me when there was on one else behind me and the only other walk way was a dirt road up to the house. Yeah, it was disconcerting.

[Flyndaran]

My family used to joke that I was a bad influence on electronics.
I've had a television remote control work without any batteries twice.
The second time happened after the batteries had been removed for many hours.
Interesting, but doesn't really require anything magical, just residual charge.

[Savannah]

Does everyone "blessed" with experiencing the supernatural believe that some like me can somehow have the ability to shortcircuit the spooky?


Can't say I've had any particular supernatural experiences, but one explanation sprang to mind. You simply do not accept or do not see anything supernatural that you do experience. (I think this is fairly likely if supernatural events do happen*---humans can rationalize or ignore a LOT).

*Yeah, I'm a bit of a skeptic as well. Still, it could happen...I don't want to rule anything out. :p

[Flyndaran]

Can't say I've had any particular supernatural experiences, but one explanation sprang to mind. You simply do not accept or do not see anything supernatural that you do experience. (I think this is fairly likely if supernatural events do happen*---humans can rationalize or ignore a LOT).

*Yeah, I'm a bit of a skeptic as well. Still, it could happen...I don't want to rule anything out. :p

But darn it I look for it, and really want to experience it if it exists. I just haven't seen anything that can't be explained rationally much more easily.
My girlfriend admits to experiencing quite a number of overt supernatural phenomena, so I try not to dismiss her feelings or memories. Either I'm a statistical anomaly for never being present when strange stuff happens, or I am a negative psychic always pushing it away unconsciously.
Can there really be any other explanation... other than your prosposed head in the sand mentality?

[Cats]

Everyone has different tastes, annoyances, sensitivity to certain things, etc. Who says experiences with the supernatural can't be similar? Maybe some people are just more sensitive to it than others are. With the exeption of identical twins (and even that can be disputed), no two people are alike. Some people notice things others don't, even in the same setting.

[BroomJockey]

Can there really be any other explanation... other than your prosposed head in the sand mentality?

Sure. Rather than head-in-the-sand, you simply just don't notice. Take my breeze example. If I was more focused on what I was doing, I wouldn't have noticed. It's possible that minor things have happened, but you're simply focused on something close to hand to the exclusion of what's going on around you.

[Slytovhand]

Actually, Flyn, I do believe in the nega-psych.

If we presume that such paranormal activity is caused by entities (rather than merely non-intelligent energies), and those entities are capable of sensing who's attuned to such things and who's not, then it would make perfect sense that such things wouldn't happen around you.. you give off 'not near me' vibes (regardless of what you actually say... you've posted enough "I think that's all crap" type of messages on here... suddenly saying "I wish I could see it" isn't going to wash).

Now, you might think this theory sucks big ones... but consider the other end of the spectrum. Those who are very psychically tuned seem to run into this stuff all the time! Spirits like them and always want to chat... and they're quite capable of dealing with it (in one form or another... hopefully! although... I've known people who weren't.. and they aren't happy with it :( ).

This theory isn't much different from cat/dog people and non-cat/dog people (although, there is some logic to that.. don't screw up your eyes to cats - they take that as a sign of affection/liking).


ETA: oh, btw, you're not a statistical anomoly! There's actually a very large percentage of the population in the same boat.

Besides - there is also the other side of the statistics... if something did happen to convince a person that there is supernatural stuff, then they'd then be classed as a believer... so, strangely enough, all believers have had something supernatural happen in their lives. Non-believers, OTOH, haven't had a convincingly supernatural event happen, so all non-believers have never experienced... nothing overly surprising in the stats there!

[Flyndaran]

Actually, Flyn, I do believe in the nega-psych.

If we presume that such paranormal activity is caused by entities (rather than merely non-intelligent energies), and those entities are capable of sensing who's attuned to such things and who's not, then it would make perfect sense that such things wouldn't happen around you.. you give off 'not near me' vibes (regardless of what you actually say... you've posted enough "I think that's all crap" type of messages on here... suddenly saying "I wish I could see it" isn't going to wash).
...
I can see how one could come to that conclusion. But we are all full of internal inconsistencies. I don't believe in the supernatural, because I haven't seen proof of it. But I still would love to see something impossible. It's the desperately hopeful part of me that wants to experience something truly magical.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

I think that my government has a good chance of ruining my life.

Please prove me wrong.

Good analogy? maybe not. But it's good enough for government work ;)

Never had a supernatural experience myself. Maybe it has to do with my slick techno skillz :D. On a serious note, I think it all comes down to a persons outlook. If you believe (even a little) in the supernatural, you're going to write things down as supernatural that others are going to interpret as natural phenomena.

Since such occurrences are by definition unprovable one way or the other, the only real answer is maybe.

My answer's no, but a neutral answer is maybe. My answer is different because of a thing we call bias and it's what makes the world go 'round :D.

[Red_Dazes]

But darn it I look for it, and really want to experience it if it exists. I just haven't seen anything that can't be explained rationally much more easily.


Perhaps that is the problem right there...you LOOK for it too hard. Sometimes if you're looking for something too hard you tend to miss it.

I've always been more skeptical than the rest of my family, even at a very young age. Whenever anything would happen and everyone would scream "god" or "ghost" I'd be off searching for the real answer...and often made them all look like fools. But I've had a few experiences I can't explain, so while I would love to dismiss everything as "tricks of light" "saw it out of the corner of my eye" etc... I can't always... though I try my damnedest. I guess it just comes down to. Some people will never experience "supernatural?" things, and some will... maybe the system is biased... maybe some people are just more "sensitive" or maybe alot of us are on the way towards a severe mental break down and finally showing the first signs of it. Who knows.

[Slytovhand]

Tales of amazement, ghosts... and idiots.:)

Ok, first story... it was one of those nights when I could just feel stuff was going on, and entities moving about... (yeah, I can...). Anyway, I chose to centre myself and relax. I sat on my bed and started to meditate. I'm the only one alone in my house (and it is a house, not a unit - so completely detached from anything else). Next thing, the lamp shade from my ceiling light drops and smashes only a couple of feet from me... this thing that had been sitting up there for years and years. No big movements in the house (so no 'external motion set it off'), nothing happening at all... extremely still - moreso than usual! Not cold, not hot (so no expansion/contraction arguments). And, as I said... I felt stuff was going on. So... reasonable grounds (in my mind!)

Second story... group of us sitting around playing DnD (pnp). All of a sudden, the lights go out. Everyone gets riled up (apparently, some of the persons there had made an enemy or 2... great!). Within minutes, I'd never seen so much weaponary in all my life! (well, ok, I had, but it doesn't tell the story as well :p). The guys (who lived there) armed to the teeth with knives and swords and the like 'go on patrol'.... seems, after some actual thought came into it, that while we were playing, someone had banged the floor a bit (as happens when you're playing on the floor), which had caused enough vibration to make an already loose fuse drop out completely..:p so... that was... fun

And, Flyn, just totally for you.... a few years ago, it was October/November. Melbourne Cup was coming up. I heard, extremely distinctly and in no uncertain terms, in my head "3,6,9" in reference to it (thank you very much Rhiannon, Celtic Goddess of horses! and one of my 'patrons'). So, I put down a boxed trifecta (but, still not 100% on the 'faith' thing, only went 3x bet, not the 10x I was intending...). First 3 past the post?? 3, 6, 9. Got myself a nice $5000 (instead of the $17K I would have got had I trusted it :( ) Now, that's all verifiable (well, except for the bit about hearing it), and certainly is not going to be readily explainable by science! 'Luck'?? Again, if you take my claim that I heard it before it happened into account... not likely to have both together!


BJ - No, Occam's Razor. The impossible has been eliminated. Therefore, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. Actually, that was Sherlock Holmes.

Occam's Razor is:"entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily". Or: When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. AKA - All things being equal, the simplest solution is most likely the correct.

But... what's defined as 'simplest' doesn't always mean 'shortest'. After all, "God did it" is by far the shortest answer, and in someways is the simplest... but introduces more than is necessary for an explanation, and requires far more explaning in itself.

[Flyndaran]

not[/I] going to be readily explainable by science! 'Luck'?? Again, if you take my claim that I heard it before it happened into account... not likely to have both together!
....

How many times have you heard things and they don't pan out? That would be confirmation bias when you only remember the times those random "thoughts" pay off, literaly in this case.
Or even if you've only heard voices this one time and it paid off doesn't necessarily mean that it was supernatural. 3,6,9 seem like a rather common sequence anyway, and eventually someone wins the lottery, so to speak.
I won't act rude to those that believe in such things as long as it doesn't affect me. But I won't believe they are even possible, unless and until I see undeniable proof. I will continue to be on the lookout hoping to someday witness the impossible. :)

[BroomJockey]

BJ - Actually, that was Sherlock Holmes.


No shit? Really? Wow. Never knew. Not possible that I meant to reference both, after all.

[Slytovhand]

No shit? Really? Wow. Never knew. Not possible that I meant to reference both, after all.

WTF???

'Reference both'... but without actually doing any referencing... except to the first, and then wanting people to buy that you were talking about 2 separate things?? Unlikely, at the best of times.

No, far more likely that you had a misquote... after all, that's the simplest and most logical explanation....

[BroomJockey]

No, far more likely that you had a misquote... after all, that's the simplest and most logical explanation....

Actually, since a period was present, making them two separate thoughts, and there were no quotation marks, I'm going to leave the sarcasm out and tell you flat you're wrong.

You're wrong.

[bunnyboy]

As for the original post, this is something I keep hearing from people I hang out with (seem to have a lot of people who are newapagiccans (for those that don't know that's my fancypants way of saying new-age-pagan-wiccans, basically the people who populate occult and new age bookstores that aren't seriously looking for a good tome to pick apart) that hang around me) and I've always thought it was BS, basically it's saying that because you're not looking at the world through young eyes, you can't see the supernatural/miracles/what have you going on. Oddly I'm a skeptical agnostic, but well I believe in weird things like prana/ki/kundalini/orgone/insert name for vital force here and it's manipulation, and some miracles (I've met at least one true stigmatic, you know with the wounds on the wrist with no verifiable explanation as to how it got there) and in general just have a skeptical, but believing view of the world and thr supernatural.

To exlain that last part, I do believe that the supernatural is real, but in general it affects us in at most very minor ways, and tends to have its own set of laws, some of which are incredibly old (The Hermetic Axiom*, Law of Polarity**, Ghosts are rarely found in graveyards, miracles require extremes of faith on the good side of extremes of faith) some of which are just plain new (any entity that is universal has no concern with us hairless apes, Asimov and Niven's axioms***, Earth is Purgatory.) However I will look at it with an extremely skeptical eye, is the sound that people are hearing a ghost moaning or stepping on the floor, or is it just the house settling? So I guess according to both the people who the OP quoted, and most of my newapagiccan friends I should not have had ANY sort of supernatural experience.

Buuuuuut (and here's the rub) The stigmatic above, the fact that I constantly get called a necropath (I feel the feeling of dead people) by them, and have experienced first hand just how much power you can get from Ki/Chi/Prana/Pneuma/too many names on both the receiving and giving ends, I would say I'm pretty much an exception to that rule, if it was true.

Very often I see things like that and want to bang my head on something hard, mainly because it seems to come from people either cribbing from White Wolf (Mage: The Ascension in particular) or from authors who rather than teaching them anything useful, want to make them feel speshul to increase the sales for both themselves and two certain publishing companies (which seems to be the 10% who didn't get it from the main conflict of M:TA.)

Gah I hate rambling on this stuff, but damn it feels good to vent, especially when I have the morons above who try to convince me of everything under the sun (2012 is "teh end of teh wuruld", magic is just imagining, Crowley had no ideas and was a mean man who killed millions of children a day.**** )

* As Above, So Below
** Everything has an opposite
*** Sufficiently advanced technology\magic is indistinguishable from magic\technology
**** To be fair this is true, but it was his poetic/occult blind***** way of saying he bopped the bishop daily
***** symbolic language used to confuse a novice/outsider so they aren't coming in with the "cup full to be filled."

[Flyndaran]

If you have experienced something completely magical, then it would be irrational NOT to believe. I just hope that if it exists, I will get to experience one paradigm breaking event at least once in my life.

The problem with being surrounded by inane believers is one of being surrounded by those requiring less evidence to believe something. It's a sad statistic, nothing more.
Look at my fellow atheists. I'm surrounded by crotchety crumudgeons. It doesn't make me one, but thems the breaks.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah.

I am never entirely comfortable with this conversation, as I can't help but feel it makes me look even MORE Like a loon. But okay.

The short version:

You know how you hear about teenage girls in the house make all kinds of crazy "paranormal" (whatever that means) shit happen? That was my house growing up. And it's never entirely worn off my sister. She's "gifted."

I've seen some weird shit. A lot. It doesn't much faze me anymore. (the funny bit is that it ALWAYS fazes my sister, and I'm pretty convinced she's some kind of catalyst or something) Some of you know I work sometimes as a dukkerer (fortuneteller.) You might be suprised to also learn I won't allow stuff like Ouja boards in my house.

Family's got a history of this stuff. Mostly on Dad's side. Dukkering's from his side. So's all the so called paranormal crap.

Husband's family gots some stuff going on, too. I expect when our girl hits puberty, the freaking electrical plugs will start dripping ichor. (I'm kidding. Mostly. )

BOOZY: You had an episode of The Haint? (Hag, or whatever)? Me too. Didn't think it was paranormal, just the scariest thing I think that has ever happened to me. Actually I think it triggered the claustrophobia I have sufferend ever since. I have heard theories that the experience is a nightmare about being born. That makes quite a bit of sense to me. Would you be willing to tell me about your experience with it? I find the whole thing quite fascinating. I've found a couple others who've experienced it, and it was fascinating talking to them about it. I'd love to hear what your take on it is.

[Boozy]

I actually experience sleep paralysis very frequently, most commonly when I am taking midday naps. For me, I usually have a vague sensation of being held down by an invisible and malevolent presence. Only once (and this was just last month) did I actually hallucinate and see someone standing over me.

Often, I feel that I am hovering outside my body for a few seconds. This lasts until the paralysis wears off and I can feel my body again. My brain is interpreting my state of consciousness paired with paralysis as an "out of body" experience.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Oh, good Lord. :(

Boozy, if this happened to me frequently, I'd have to take some serious drugs just to get to the point I could relax enough to go to sleep.

The one time it happened to me, it scared me so bad I literally thought I was losing my mind. At the time, I had no idea what had just happened. A friend of mine who heard all the screaming, woke up, and tried to calm me down said I looked so wild-eyed and out of it, she was afraid to touch me.

It seriously was just about the scariest thing that ever happened to me.

I guess knowing what's happening would help take the edge off the fear. As would the lack of the "presence."

[Boozy]

I recall it being very frightening the first few times. But when something happens often enough, it loses its edge a bit. And it helps to know exactly what is going on.

Even now, when it's happening, I have a feeling of "Oh, for fuck sake, not this again, how annoying" and "Oh my God I'm going to die!!!" It's a strange sensation to know with your rational mind that you are safe when at the same time your subconscious is freaking the hell out.

[DesignFox]

I actually experience sleep paralysis very frequently, most commonly when I am taking midday naps. <snip>
Often, I feel that I am hovering outside my body for a few seconds. This lasts until the paralysis wears off and I can feel my body again. My brain is interpreting my state of consciousness paired with paralysis as an "out of body" experience.

Is THAT what that is? I had that happen to me in college once. I felt like I was leaving my body...like, if I let myself keep going I just would have floated away.

It scared the crap out of me! (hasn't happened since)

I'm fairly insomniac, anyway. I rarely sleep soundly, and I constantly dream. I think the best part about getting my wisdom teeth out was the sedation and drugs gave me the best sleep of my life. :p

[Flyndaran]

...It's a strange sensation to know with your rational mind that you are safe when at the same time your subconscious is freaking the hell out.

That's my severe anxiety in a nutshell.
Maybe that's why I never give much credence to weird unexplained feelings. I know they lie too much to believe.

[Lachrymose]

I actually experience sleep paralysis very frequently, most commonly when I am taking midday naps. For me, I usually have a vague sensation of being held down by an invisible and malevolent presence. Only once (and this was just last month) did I actually hallucinate and see someone standing over me.

Often, I feel that I am hovering outside my body for a few seconds. This lasts until the paralysis wears off and I can feel my body again. My brain is interpreting my state of consciousness paired with paralysis as an "out of body" experience.

Uggh...it happened to me several times last night in a very short span. Probably the most I've ever experienced it.

I have narcolepsy, so I get it quite frequently. Usually once a night at least.

Until recently, I let it scare the bejesus out of me every time. Now I kind of go with the flow.

I can force myself to have auditory hallucinations (usually it just sounds like a crowd of people chatting, although once it was Pop Goes the Weasel. WTF? lol).

And occasionally I can make myself "leave my body" and kind of crawl around the room and what not (I know it's not real, but it damn near feels like it.)

[Slytovhand]

Firstly, Lachrymose.. who's to say it's 'not real'??? What you're describing is something that some students of metaphysics and the like would train for years to be able to do! If you practice it well enough, you just might surprise yourself with what is possible (and, more importantly, verifiable... with something that 'shouldn't' be...).

Boozy, RK & DF - check out a book called "God's Gladiators" by Stuart Wilde... for a ... different... take on things!

[Flyndaran]

Firstly, Lachrymose.. who's to say it's 'not real'??? What you're describing is something that some students of metaphysics and the like would train for years to be able to do! If you practice it well enough, you just might surprise yourself with what is possible (and, more importantly, verifiable... with something that 'shouldn't' be...).

Boozy, RK & DF - check out a book called "God's Gladiators" by Stuart Wilde... for a ... different... take on things!

Studies with hidden objects to be identified by such "floaters" have consistently shown that people only think they see from alternate viewpoints. Sorry, that power has been put to rest.

[Slytovhand]

Don't ya just love how 'studies have shown', means there's no way that such things are possible....

No Flyn, just because 'studies' show things, doesn't actually make something 'true'. There are talented and gifted people out there ('psychics') who are quite able to do things that are considered impossible...

Studies will show, that a lot of things we think are hogwash now, are quite factual and repeatable at some (not too distant) future! It's just that it's the 'wrong people' who are doing the 'studies'...

[Flyndaran]

Don't ya just love how 'studies have shown', means there's no way that such things are possible....

No Flyn, just because 'studies' show things, doesn't actually make something 'true'. There are talented and gifted people out there ('psychics') who are quite able to do things that are considered impossible...

Studies will show, that a lot of things we think are hogwash now, are quite factual and repeatable at some (not too distant) future! It's just that it's the 'wrong people' who are doing the 'studies'...

So you believe in the supernatual, but not scientific studies? I guess then, that there is no way to convince you otherwise. You'll just pooh pooh any evidence I present.
Goodbye.

[Slytovhand]

Your statement is stating the exact same thing that you've claimed I have. You, too, will 'pooh pooh' and claims to the contrary

I do not believe that science is the be all and end all of 'truth'. Scientific knowledge =/= reality. It's that simple.

Let me just quote one famous line, that you (and other pro-science people) keep forgetting: "Lack of evidence =/= proof against". In this case, just because 'scientific studies' didn't find a link, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. So, when you can prove that it has no effect, get back to me! Oh, what, you can't - science can only 'disprove'... damn! Don't we need a thread on the philosophy of science at this stage??? Probably also on what is 'truth' and 'reality'.


(perhaps I should have just made this post "So you believe in scientific studies, but not the supernatural? I guess then, that there is no way to convince you otherwise. You'll just pooh pooh any evidence I present." :D )

[Boozy]

Let me just quote one famous line, that you (and other pro-science people) keep forgetting: "Lack of evidence =/= proof against". In this case, just because 'scientific studies' didn't find a link, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I believe that an invisible leprechaun lives under my bed. Prove one doesn't. You can't. Therefore the existence of an invisible leprechaun is as likely as the absence of an invisible leprechaun.

If you can't understand how insane that kind of thinking is, I don't know what to tell you.

[Slytovhand]

Would be insane (literally), if that were the case.

But, when the question comes to "What's your evidence?"... and 2 opposing groups both come up with 'reasonable' evidence, which do you then believe?? You see, I can point to 'evidence' for some of the things that I think exist in the world... but all those 'evidences' are 'poo-poohed' by the scientific community...

(do aliens exist? Probably. Have they abducted people or cows? Possibly. Is there 'evidence'. Well, yes... just depends on acceptability of evidence. Can or will science ever prove the aforementioned untrue? Nope! Only that 'This doesn't fit our current world view'.. which is the point... that world view is constantly changing).

eg - no scientific study has ever (in the western world) found evidence of Qi. Yet, the Chinese, Indians, Japanese, Burmese etc have been using the concept to successfully treat patients for thousands of years. There's also been other studies and experiments have suggested that at the very least, something exists... So, in this example, I'll go with the Qi existing, rather than the few studies that say it doesn't... isn't that 'fair'... how about 'sane'?


Besides... prove reality actually exists the way that you think it does.... (yes, we're getting into religion and philosophy.. but that's the point!)