Tired of this "elitist" BS

[Puckishone]

As some of you know, I'm a bit of a stickler for proper grammar and correct spelling and usage, both in writing and in speech. Well, for the umpteenth time I've been called an "elitist" because I believe it's important for one to have mastery over one's native language, and, frankly, I'm sick of it. Do I go round whacking people with a stick when I hear a malapropism? Do I threaten a grammar jihad for the people who confuse "they're," "their" and "there"? No!! I may rant about it from time to time, but that's it. In my opinion it's something that shouldn't happen, but does; I accept it and move along.

So can someone please explain to me how this makes me an "elitist"? I'd also be much obliged if someone told me what, exactly, an "elitist" is, anyhow? And how does a gal from the wrong side of the tracks, who went to a so-so state university and works a so-so job get to be one?

[Pedersen]

First point: If that makes you an elitist, then I guess I am one too. I can read bad spelling, bad grammar, and 1337-speak. But the fact that I can does not mean I want to read it.

Good grammar and spelling makes it comfortable to read the post. There are several posters at CS who I just barely look at what they write simply because I know I'll hate reading it that much. No, I won't name names. No point in going after individuals.

I always try to provide the same in what I write. For me to make a typo is common. For that typo to be published is rare, even in IM.

Oh, and elitist? That's the moron excuse for "Fine, I can't spell, and my mastery of the language is so poor that it makes English teachers cry themselves to sleep over night, but you can still understand me. So, picking on my spelling and grammar are just ways for you to pretend you're better than me, you elitist snob!"

I'm an elitist. The only difference is that I gave up on making anybody else care a long time ago. Why piss people off by reminding them of their inadequacies? I just shrug it off, and ignore them.

[AFPheonix]

I typically don't ding people on their grammar or spelling, because chances are the one time I do, I'll have an error in my post.
I will grant that I can be verbose and use run-on sentences a fair amount, but I spell relatively well and my grammar is pretty good, too.

What I don't get is why people who KNOW they have issues with spelling while posting on the internet don't bother picking up a spellchecker plug in. All you have to get is Google toolbar, it has a bloody spell checker in it!

But yeah, on CS and other boards I frequent, I pretty much skip over posts by people who either can't make themselves clear on a regular basis or can't be bothered to type on a level more complicated than "O RLY? LOLZ". They're really just shooting themselves in the foot by not communicating effectively.

[Boozy]

Elitist?!

Someone explain to me how learning how to spell, or even learning how to use a spell checker, is a skill that is only accessible to the rich and powerful?

I agree with the comments already made - there are several posters on CS whose posts I just never read. I see their username and scroll right by. They may have some interesting things to say, but I'll never know.

Refusing to use a spell check and then expecting others to decipher your post is kind of rude, really.

[powerboy]

The only problem I have with writing things, is using "commas". As everyone knows when I post. It is because, back when I was in school. The teacher never really taught the class, how to use it properly.

I would rather read something, that is not AOL Speak.

[ArenaBoy]

I am not only a stickler for proper grammar on the internet, but I am also a stickler for proper English in real life. My little sister constantly says "coolio" to the point that I want to bash a dictionary over her head. I don't mind people not capitalizing as long as it's coherent but if it's a run-on sentence then forget it. I can also understand the occasional mix-up of their, there, and they're. Happens to me once in a while but I go back and edit my post.

[linguist]

i'm going to go out on a limb here and make a statement that may not be so popular: i don't believe in "proper" grammar. grammatically speaking, i'm a descriptivist; this means i make my grammar judgements based on consistency of use and not some arbitrary set of rules (and they are arbitrary. what prescriptivists consider "proper" grammar is largely due to the influence and personal preferences of a single person, bishop robert lowth, and a book he wrote in the 18th century: "a short introduction to english grammar with critical notes"). i believe that every person develops their own grammar, and as long as it's used consistently and is able to be understood by listeners or readers, that grammar is correct for that person. it may not be your grammar, it may not be my grammar, but that doesn't necessarily make it incorrect.

a much more eloquent article describing my feelings on this matter can be found here (http://www.newdream.net/~scully/toelw/Lowth.htm).

as for proper english, who decides what is and isn't proper? you can't really rely on a dictionary, as words we use everyday aren't in the dictionary, or weren't so very long ago. arenaboy used just such a word in his previous post: internet. and what device do you use to connect to said internet? i'm going to go out on a limb and say a modem, as opposed to the more proper modulator/demodulator. what do you watch while you relax at night? television. not truly a proper english word. not even a proper borrowing, really, as it throws together elements of both greek and latin. i could go on and on. that's the beauty of the english language. it's beautifully adaptible and highly accepting of change, even if some of its speakers aren't.

[ElMarko]

So can someone please explain to me how this makes me an "elitist"? I'd also be much obliged if someone told me what, exactly, an "elitist" is, anyhow? And how does a gal from the wrong side of the tracks, who went to a so-so state university and works a so-so job get to be one?

Because in the 18th century, mostly in England, people who weren' t kings, knights, barons, poobahs or whatever were rising in wealth and influence do to the beginning industrial revolution. The heredetary aristocracy hated this and had to put these upstarts down so they started making fun of the way they talk and holding the way people in court spoke as the "proper" way to speak. It was all about social exclusion. "Sure that guy may be wealthy but he is just some Manchester rube, not really one of us."

[Puckishone]

Linguist: I appreciate some good post-modern deconstructionism as much as the next person </sarcasm>, but I don't think that "we make our own grammar" is such a good rule of thumb in a country based on the notion that immigrants from far and wide can come together and live successfully while bolstering a great nation. The adaptability of English doesn't lead to the conclusion that all rules governing its usage must therefore be arbitrary and situational. The inclusion of words like "internet" doesn't mean that we must abandon all pretense of structure just because "everyone" doesn't follow those rules.


ElMarko: Historical background appreciated; thank you. :)

[Rapscallion]

Oddly enough, I'm going to rip one of our officers a new one in the near future mostly because he is one of our public faces. He deals with coop development and so forth, so he answers email queries from students and the like who want to know how we work. The phrase "remedial English course" is going to be used. He then sends these out to work to show how clever he was in responding. It's like watcihng a five-year-old proudly displaying some painted pasta glued to a sheet of card and saying it looks like you, excpet without the endearing part.

For me, grammar is how you present yourself to the world. I'll make mistakes and typos, but they aren't from an attitude of it doesn't matter.

Rapscallion

[ArenaBoy]

Linguist: When I read text I imagine a voice going through my head and when I see text that is in lower case letters it's as if the person is whispering. When I see text that's in ALL CAPS then it reads like the person is yelling. When I see a post without any commas or periods, I stop reading the post. I don't mind the lower case as long as the grammar is proper but if it's in all caps then forget it.

As for internet, it comes from the words international and network. Television means to see at a distance. Tele is meant to be combined with words such as telekinesis and television.

You'd be surprised at the fact that in some countries they have an institution that decides the proper ways of their language. France is notorious for this.

The way you write and speak shows who you are and it says a lot about you.

I'm sure even cavemen had a proper way of grunting too I imagine.

[Ree]

i'm going to go out on a limb here and make a statement that may not be so popular: i don't believe in "proper" grammar. grammatically speaking, i'm a descriptivist; this means i make my grammar judgements based on consistency of use and not some arbitrary set of rules...while you are certainly free to adopt that style of language, that's probably one of the most laughable and ridiculous things I've ever read. :D As far as I'm concerned, it's a cop-out excuse for not taking the time to spell words properly, or construct sentences.

You are correct that language evolves - so does science.
No matter how much we learn, and theories change, though, there are some pretty basic facts that don't change.
It's the same with sentence structure and spelling.

A comma is always going to be a comma and perform a specific function, as is a period.

It's the same with the basics of proper nouns that are capitalized, as well as basic sentence structure with a noun and verb having pretty specific definitions as well.

What do I know, though?
I'm not as well read as some, and I'm a little too set in my ways.

[EmiOfBrie]

A comma is always going to be a comma and perform a specific function, as is a period.

Except in currency, where depending on your country the comma and period may switch functions ;)

case in point:

$1,452.99
€1.452,99

[Ree]

Yes, but I wasn't talking about currency. ;)

[Seshat]

I have formal, informal and extremely informal modes of speech and writing.

My most formal is used in formal situations, and has grammar correct to one of the formal style guides (Strunk and White, for example). Spelling, in my formal writing, is correct to the Macquarie Dictionary, unless I'm writing for a specifically US or UK market. (The Macquarie because I'm Australian.)

My informal speech and writing uses common-usage grammar. I'm careful with both grammar and spelling to maintain clarity and to avoid ambiguity. I use the rules of grammar to help clarify what I'm trying to say.

Even the most casual use of grammar is important. Take the sentence 'the cat sat on the mat'. Which item was placed above the other? The cat. How do we know? Because of the subject-verb-object rule of grammar. The cat is the sitter, the mat the sittee.

Convention matters. Else like Yoda we would speak.

My most informal writing I reserve for times when I'm writing something and don't care if anyone can understand it.

Careful I am, not like Yoda to speak, when care I do.

[protege]

But yeah, on CS and other boards I frequent, I pretty much skip over posts by people who either can't make themselves clear on a regular basis or can't be bothered to type on a level more complicated than "O RLY? LOLZ". They're really just shooting themselves in the foot by not communicating effectively.

I usually do that too. I can usually get what's being said, but why should I have to translate? Just because I *can* doesn't mean I *want* to.

I've noticed, that people who speak like that, usually end up pissing off the non-English folks. For example, on the model car site I frequent, we actually have it in our TOS that you have to speak properly. That is, no ebonics, no 1337 crap...mainly because our overseas friends read it, and can't understand it! We do warn people, and after two warnings, we put them into read-only mode. It sounds cruel, but we don't want to risk alienating people who have a limited grasp of English.

What I've noticed, is that many of those folks actually speak English better than many of the people who *live* here :rolleyes:

[AFPheonix]

I don't think it's cruel at all. They're using a written medium. They need to be able to write at least modestly well. I'm not expecting English-major quality, but at least 6th grade readability, here. Message boards are not AIM or a text message. Type the whole goddamn word out!

Something Awful bans your ass if you try to use L33T speak.

[XCashier]

I've never understood L33T myself. I mean, it takes more effort to deliberately misspell a word than it does to type the full word out! Plus, it makes you look like an idiot!

If someone is dyslexic, I can forgive them for misspelled words; that's something they can't help. But deliberately writing like a four-year-old (ie, the infamous My Immortal fanfic! ), that's when I lose patience.

[Seshat]

I've never understood L33T myself. I mean, it takes more effort to deliberately misspell a word than it does to type the full word out!

Before L337 became 'common', it was a nifty way to devise passwords. Develop your own version of punctuation or number substitution, and a name or an easily remembered word becomes a password which satisfies complexity rules, and is probably difficult to crack.

Unfortunately, making it into a type of speech has pretty much devalued it as a password creation scheme. :mad:

[the_std]

I'm actually glad to see that the majority of the posts made on CS are clear, concise and well-constructed. That's not to say they're all perfect, but the effort is clearly there.

That's the thing, isn't it? Effort? At least act like you care about the story you're telling, and that will help us care enough to read it. If you put no real effort into writing it, why should we put any effort into reading it?

[MystyGlyttyr]

I actually don't mind reading bad spelling, misplaced commas, all caps, all lowercase, whatever. I don't think it's elitist to mind it. Sometimes a little nitpicky, yes, (SOMEtimes) but not elitist. But if the story's interesting enough, I can overlook a lot.

The only thing that really bothers me is WALL O' TEXT. Not using the enter button once in a while. If I see a wall o text, I can't focus on any one line. It just all runs together. It's not that I don't want to read it or anything, it's that I can't. Even on my obituaries at work, if I get one that's wall o text (and I frequently do), I have to use my highlighters to seperate the lines.

I'm sure I misspell words here and there here, at CS.com, and probably a few other places on the Internet. But I don't use a spellchecker because I mixed up my I before E on one word in one paragraph because what I'm saying isn't that important. If it were a job interview or a college exam, then yes, I'll go over what I'm doing. If I'm just telling a funny story to a message board where I'm comfortable with the people, I don't stress over it. If one or two minor errors makes people hate and refuse to read what I write, well, that's their perogative, whatever blows your skirt up...so to speak.

To me, unless it involves employment or something else important like that, the Internet is informal. I'll write as properly as I can, just because it's how I write, and I'll skim a post before hitting sumbit to make sure I didn't leave out vital details and correct glaring errors if they leap off the page at me. But I don't have the time or the willingness to spend five minutes (and on my dial-up, it is at least five minutes) with a spell check just to be perfect.

(I'm not trying to sound harsh to people who want proper and well-spelled English, because I don't think it's that big a deal to want it...honestly, it's all good. I'm just stating that I don't hold it to the same standard. I've always been told one should write like they speak, and some people speak...funny. But as long as a person can get across what they're trying to, works for me. I'm just easy like that. :D *waits on minds to come out of gutters...* )

[powerboy]

Mysty, I am with you on that. I hate that dreaded wall of text. I cannot read it at all. It is even worse, when it is all in cap locks.

[Seshat]

But as long as a person can get across what they're trying to, works for me. I'm just easy like that. :D

That's fair enough. But by the same token, I'm not going to spend ten minutes trying to decipher a post where every second word is badly misspelled and they leave out half the information you'd need to appreciate the story anyway.

There are a few people on CS who post like that. I won't name names, because that's not fair, but I'm sure everyone can think of at least one such person.

[DesignFox]

There are a few people on CS who post like that. I won't name names, because that's not fair, but I'm sure everyone can think of at least one such person.

Yes, I can, and I don't read their posts. ;)

If I have to seriously de-code or try to decipher something, it's not worth it to me. I read posts to de-stress or maybe get a laugh. It's not fun to me if can't understand the person's story!

[FashionLad]

If it's a casual enverionment like a web board, I'm not going to worry so much about grammar and spelling.

Believe me, my grammar and spelling are far from perfect; however, in an academic situation or professional setting, I try to make myself sound as intelligent as possible.

There are so many grammar rules that some people are just not going to dedicate their lives to it. I know doctors who don't write with correct punctiuation at all times, but at the same time are probably some of the most brilliant people in their field. An English teacher can tell me that I have a comma splice or I have a dangling modifier, a doctor can tell me that I need to have life saving surgery. I want my mechanic to know more about my transmission than incorrect usage of certain words. No one has perfect grammar.

As for me, I'm going to school for Information Technology to be a Network Administrator. I'll bet you anything that my employer will be happy as long as I'm able to keep their network running smoothly. When I send out memos, I'm sure with grammar skills that I actually do have, will be enough to get the job done.

Someone is going to go through and go, "of course he doesn't want to people to focus on grammar and punctuation, his is horrible." And that may be true. But, I'll keep your network running smoothly so your company can be profitable.

[DesignFox]

No one has perfect grammar.

I don't think that's the issue. The issue is people who disregard the basic rules of grammar and make their posts incomprehensible.

I think your employer would have a problem if he couldn't communicate with you, no matter how well you could fix his networking problems.

Trust me, as a former manager, I didn't even look at job applications that had glaring errors in spelling or grammar. If you don't care enough to follow the basic rules of written communication, how much will you care about your job? If I cannot understand your written word, how can I communicate with you regarding the needs of my company?

Obviously, when in an informal setting, the rules are extremely relaxed. I don't mind the occasional missed comma, misspelled word or run-on sentence, especially on the forums. But when someone posts a block of text, uses little to no punctuation, posts in all capitals, etc... it's just plain painful to try to decipher. I don't waste my time. If someone has something that important to say, they will put forth some effort into posting it.

[Boozy]

Trust me, as a former manager, I didn't even look at job applications that had glaring errors in spelling or grammar.

Minor grammatical errors I always overlooked, but spelling errors on a resume are absolutely unacceptable.

How can someone not be bothered to do a quick spell check? What does that say about someone's attention to detail? Or even their seriousness in finding a job?

[DesignFox]

How can someone not be bothered to do a quick spell check? What does that say about someone's attention to detail? Or even their seriousness in finding a job?
Exactly Boozy. You put it better than I did. I agree, if the grammar issue was minor, I overlooked it (like we've said, no one is perfect!). If it was something major, the application hit the circular file.

[Seshat]

As for me, I'm going to school for Information Technology to be a Network Administrator. I'll bet you anything that my employer will be happy as long as I'm able to keep their network running smoothly. When I send out memos, I'm sure with grammar skills that I actually do have, will be enough to get the job done.

Someone is going to go through and go, "of course he doesn't want to people to focus on grammar and punctuation, his is horrible." And that may be true. But, I'll keep your network running smoothly so your company can be profitable.

Based on this post: you are capable of identifying what you're trying to say, organising it so that other people will be able to understand it, laying it out coherently, and writing with enough attention to grammar and spelling that the reader is not left wondering what you're trying to say.

I've worked with programmers and sysadmins who lacked those skills. They had to be fantastic programmers and sysadmins to keep their jobs, and it held up their progress to lead programmer/senior sysadmin type roles.

Why? Because it was bloody hard to figure out what they'd done or not done, and bloody hard to integrate code with the programmers; or understand the sysadmins' site book (if they even kept one).

I don't want grammatical perfection. I just want to be able to understand what the writer is saying.

[Rapscallion]

A chum of mine is a coder. He said grammar wasn't important, so I asked him what his computer would say if his coding was a shoddy as his written text.

He got the idea after that.

Rapscallion

[Hello Kitty]

I dislike bad spelling and grammar. I'm not perfect by any means, but when I see flagrant and multiple errors it bugs the hell out of me...especially since it's SO COMMON now. Do the schools not teach this anymore?! I don't understand how high schools can graduate students with such low spelling and grammar skills, but I guess that's another thread.

I have been known to correct signs. I'm sorry but it bugs me. If you don't like it, don't make errors next time!

My coworker and I had a long running dispute over the plural abbreviation 'IPs'. I was convinced it should be 'IPs' with no apostrophe (as it was not possessive) but he insisted it was 'IP's'. [Apparently using an apostrophe is traditional but now it is common not to use it.]

Sticklers should read 'Eats Shoots & Leaves' by Lynne Truss. Hilarious. Who knew there was an Apostrophe Preservation Society?

[Seshat]

A chum of mine is a coder. He said grammar wasn't important, so I asked him what his computer would say if his coding was a shoddy as his written text.

English is C for natural intelligence.

[FashionLad]

I dislike bad spelling and grammar. I'm not perfect by any means, but when I see flagrant and multiple errors it bugs the hell out of me...especially since it's SO COMMON now. Do the schools not teach this anymore?! I don't understand how high schools can graduate students with such low spelling and grammar skills, but I guess that's another thread.



I've said this before, my grammar is not perfect so I'm not going to go around and try and correct anyone else. Of course, I'd think when trying to make an arguement about how bad grammar annoys you, you'd make better punctuation choices.

I'll comma splice the hell out of a paragraph, I'll leave dangling modifers because honestly, I never really grasped what a dangling modifer really is. Most likely you'll see at least one run-on sentence as well as at least one fragment. I don't want anyone to explain dangling modifers to me, I've had several English teachers try already.

All I'm saying is that it annoys me to no end that the people who are complaining the most about grammar, are the people who compain about bad grammar while using noticably bad grammar. If you're an English teacher throwing a fit over my grammar, have at it. Chances are, you probably won't change too much of how I write or talk.

The best thing of all is, I got As in my English classes. Why? When I had to write a paper, I had the best English students proofread the hell out of my paper until it was perfect. You don't have to know everything. You just have to know where to get the information.

[Hello Kitty]

Hey, I never said I was perfect. But I do expect a high school graduate to understand how simple contractions work.

[FashionLad]

Hey, I never said I was perfect. But I do expect a high school graduate to understand how simple contractions work.

I'll quote myself because I already explained why I said what I said:



All I'm saying is that it annoys me to no end that the people who are complaining the most about grammar, are the people who compain about bad grammar while using noticably bad grammar.



That's all. I'm not calling anyone a hypocrit. I'm just saying that if you're going to make a point-- monkey see, monkey do. That's all. :D

[gbm85]

I do expect a high school graduate to understand how simple contractions work.

Do you expect the person cooking your burger at McDonald's to understand contractions? Because that's who a high school graduate is these days.

[AFPheonix]

Why does one's place of work have any bearing on how someone was taught in english class?

[Boozy]

I expect basic literacy of my fellow citizens, if only because we live in a democracy and we have a duty to be educated and informed. If someone who works at McDonald's votes, I expect them to pick up a newspaper or a book on occasion.

Obviously, using a comma correctly does not mean someone is informed, but as a general rule, the more someone reads, the less likely they are to make glaring punctuation errors.

No one here is making any of these major errors, btw. Everyone's post is readable.

[TheRoo]

Do you expect the person cooking your burger at McDonald's to understand contractions? Because that's who a high school graduate is these days.

I used to manage a gas station, and there was a place on the application for a short paragraph about why I should hire them. Punctuation and spelling in that paragraph were very important to me. A missing comma wasn't a deal breaker, but it certainly was a strike against them. A potential employee who takes the time to proofread an application before he or she turns it in is the kind of person that I wanted working for me.

I think your statement is insulting to McDonald's workers, who should be able to write at least somewhat proficiently. We should not settle for lower standards, even for jobs that only require a high school diploma

[DarthRetard]

You know what other profession requires a high school diploma as a minimum? The military.

Personally gbm85, that seems like quite an elitist statement yourself. Even though, like you probably assume, 100% of McDonald's employees go there because they like low standards and bad grammar and only want to do the minimum. I'm sure of course, that none of those kids go to college, or are still in high school just trying earn a little cash. No, of course not.

Asking someone to use their language in the proper way is not an elitist statement, but saying that a high school graduate is equal to an illiterate McDonald's worker is a slight against the fast-food profession, and in my opinion, people who undertake that profession for whatever reason. If I worked at McDonald's, does that automatically make me illiterate? I graduated from high school, I worked fast food for a little bit, just earn some cash on the side while I was finishing my enlistment paperwork.

Grammar is an integral part of communication, both verbal and written, and it's as important to fast-food workers as it is politicians and public speakers.

[gbm85]

Part of English class is reading comprehension. I wonder how well some of the posters here performed in that area.

High school graduation is not what it used to be. For that matter, neither is college graduation. The bar moves with the numbers. If everyone in America had a doctorate, don't you think there would be people with doctorates working at McDonald's?

As time goes on, a high school diploma means less and less. There was a time when few people went to college, and a high school diploma was relatively meaningful. Those days are gone.

I myself do not have a high school diploma. I have a GED. Does that mean that you expect less of me in regards to punctuation and grammar? If not, then why is the opposite true?

In many school districts, a D is considered passing. So, assuming that Joe Blo earned all A's except for D's in English, he would still graduate. Do you expect a D student to display above-average or even average skills in that subject?

And if someone would like to quote my previous post and point out exactly where I said that all McDonald's employees are high-school graduates with no intention of moving up, or that they all work at McDonald's because they like the low standards, then please do so. I would be absolutely delighted.

Do you know why people cook at McDonald's instead of holding a position that works with the public? Most of the time it is because they lack proper communication skills. Therefore, I do not find it the least bit unreasonable to say that the cooks at McDonald's do not have good grammar or punctuation skills.

Sue me.

[FashionLad]

Obviously, using a comma correctly does not mean someone is informed, but as a general rule, the more someone reads, the less likely they are to make glaring punctuation errors.



I read all the time. Get your read pens out, because I'm about to make a ton of grammatical errors; however, I can kind of figure out when something is amiss. When I don't have school, I read about three books a month. As I've said before, my grammar is far from perfect. I do know basic rules of grammar; it's enough to get me by.

I don't expect scholarly work from anyone on an internet board. I do expect that someone has the basics of grammar down when writing a resume. Chances are most people will be writing simple sentences throughout their resume.

It's not bad until it's unreadable. If this were school I'd be more concerned; but, on a board such as this, it's pretty informal. If someone puts a comma in where it doesn't belong, that's fine with me.

And gbm85 is right. People who are cooking at McDonald's are generally people who have issues with communicating effectively.

[ArenaBoy]

Do you know why people cook at McDonald's instead of holding a position that works with the public? Most of the time it is because they lack proper communication skills. Therefore, I do not find it the least bit unreasonable to say that the cooks at McDonald's do not have good grammar or punctuation skills.


You know those posts on CS, where people post about customers assuming that just because they work a certain position or job is an indicator to their societal status?

[ArenaBoy]

And gbm85 is right. People who are cooking at McDonald's are generally people who have issues with communicating effectively.

:rolleyes:

It could mean that a person is, you know, GOOD at cooking.

[Seshat]

It could mean that a person is, you know, GOOD at cooking.

I can't imagine anyone who's GOOD at cooking choosing to cook at McDonald's for any reason other than desperation.

Now, good at food hygiene and capable of producing edible food: sure. But not someone who enjoys cuisine.

[ArenaBoy]

I can't imagine anyone who's GOOD at cooking choosing to cook at McDonald's for any reason other than desperation.

The response made implied that just because someone's working as a cook at McDonald's doesn't mean that they're incompetent at communicating. For all we know the cook could be good or they're shorthanded.


Now, good at food hygiene and capable of producing edible food: sure. But not someone who enjoys cuisine.

Strange. I know plenty of people who enjoy cuisine and don't mind the occasional Burger King.

[DarthRetard]

I'll take that first sentence of your most recent post as a personal attack, gbm, as I'm sure it was intended for me. I scored in the 99th percentile(meaning only 1% of students scored higher than me in the entire state) in reading, and the 98th in math on our state standardized test. I also was taking 4th grade reading AND math at an advanced level whilst being in 3rd grade. I think I'm more than qualified in the reading comprehension my collegiate friend.

I wasn't trying to attack you, just what you said. Maybe I didn't clarify myself well enough, which is partly my fault. I still think that statement was an elitist load of b.s. though.

[AFPheonix]

Do you expect the person cooking your burger at McDonald's to understand contractions? Because that's who a high school graduate is these days.


And if someone would like to quote my previous post and point out exactly where I said that all McDonald's employees are high-school graduates with no intention of moving up, or that they all work at McDonald's because they like the low standards, then please do so. I would be absolutely delighted.

Do you know why people cook at McDonald's instead of holding a position that works with the public? Most of the time it is because they lack proper communication skills. Therefore, I do not find it the least bit unreasonable to say that the cooks at McDonald's do not have good grammar or punctuation skills.


Oh I don't know, that sounds like exactly what you said previously. If you didn't mean it, then by all means, elaborate on what you truly meant.

My BIL is currently working as a cook at a fast food restaurant. He reads, writes, and talks effectively, but because his credit is in the shitter, he has no car anymore, and he's working through a lot of personal problems, he's stuck being a cook at a fast food joint. I suspect he can use contractions properly.
At his particular chain, they put the noobs in the back cooking and cycle them up front as they gain mileage. I don't know if that's the case everywhere.

That's not to say he's not looking for other work while he's doing this job, it was something that hired him on fast, he needed the money. When he can get a better job, he'll go elsewhere.
He's just one example of I'm sure plenty of burger flippers who can write as well as you.

[FashionLad]

I'll take that first sentence of your most recent post as a personal attack, gbm, as I'm sure it was intended for me. I scored in the 99th percentile(meaning only 1% of students scored higher than me in the entire state) in reading, and the 98th in math on our state standardized test. I also was taking 4th grade reading AND math at an advanced level whilst being in 3rd grade. I think I'm more than qualified in the reading comprehension my collegiate friend.



I don't think gbm was talking in absolutes. So, I'm thinking comprehension might be a bit lacking. I say this certainly when he refers to people who hold a job cooking at McDonald's instead of moving up.

I don't put any stock into state standarized tests. Communications is very important, but you also must know how to relate to people. That's another form of communication. If you're out pissing everyone off but you scored in the 98th percentile, you're not going anywhere in life. You can get A's all your life and score really high in tests, but you still might be dumb as a rock.

[Boozy]

I read all the time. Get your read pens out, because I'm about to make a ton of grammatical errors...

You're not making any of the major errors I was talking about. We all make some errors, especially in the relaxed atmosphere of discussion forums.

I just wanted to make it clear that I was not saying anyone here doesn't read.

Quoted for emphasis:

No one here is making any of these major errors, btw. Everyone's post is readable.

[Giggle Goose]

It takes a lot for me to make a post this long. So here goes.

I don't put any stock into state standarized tests.

Neither do I. My ex-boyfriend scored a 1550 on the SAT; back when it was a max score of 1600. They make you write an essay nowadays, I hear (senior moment :().

But anyway, as some of you might already know from my posts way back when, he was (and still is) a total elitist snob who got way too cocky about his "abilities" and ending up failing out of college. Last I heard his credit was in the shitter and he cut off the tip of his finger in a work-related accident. Which probably wouldn't have happened if he had gotten his illustrious job discovering the cure for cancer or something. (I'm not going to debate the merits on this, so don't jump on me. I'm just giving a real-world example).

Also, someone might not know all the proper rules of grammar in their WRITING, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't orally communicate properly. Like Darth, I scored very high on all those standardized reading tests and all that crap. (And rightfully so, since I've probably had more intelligent conversations with this guy than anyone else I know). However, my SAT was crap thanks to my math score. At both restaurants I work at, I'm a front of house employee; and so is my brother. He damn near failed out of high school and is severely dyslexic, but he almost always makes more tips than me because he knows how to talk to people. There's no other way I can describe it but that. My high-scoring self just doesn't like making small talk. So sue me.

I also get so sick of being such a high and mighty great communicator that sometimes I CHOOSE to work in the kitchen if they're short-handed. Yeah, that's right. Those guys make more money by the hour and don't have to depend on whether someone likes them or not in order to get paid; and I can curse like a sailor back there and prove that you can take the girl out of the trailer park, but.....you know the rest. ;)

What am I using as a reference, you all might ask? My own life experience, and I think I know myself and what I've lived better than y'all.

[DarthRetard]

I don't think gbm was talking in absolutes. So, I'm thinking comprehension might be a bit lacking. I say this certainly when he refers to people who hold a job cooking at McDonald's instead of moving up.

I don't put any stock into state standarized tests. Communications is very important, but you also must know how to relate to people. That's another form of communication. If you're out pissing everyone off but you scored in the 98th percentile, you're not going anywhere in life. You can get A's all your life and score really high in tests, but you still might be dumb as a rock.

Never did I say that standardized tests were the be-all and end-all for grading abilities in general areas, but it IS a grading and testing system that, one assumes, does give a general idea. I was merely enumerating my qualifications in the terms of reading comprehension, that's all. I felt like I needed to state my merits in order to prove to the jury herewithin these said forums, that I am not, in fact, dumb as a rock.

Just because I may piss everyone off, it doesn't mean I'm not going anywhere in life. I personally think that pandering to everyone's sensitivities and being 100% PC all the time is a bullshit, flawed piece of logic that couldnt hold up in front of a summer breeze. Sometimes people are a little more keen on listening to you when you're not just shooting typical nonsense just because you think you may upset them. For as far as I'm concerned, I continue to try and serve my country in whatever way I can, and I put myself in the line of duty to defend the 1st amendment, and whether you, or anyone on this board likes it, I like to see it used and I WILL use it.

[Seshat]

The response made implied that just because someone's working as a cook at McDonald's doesn't mean that they're incompetent at communicating. For all we know the cook could be good or they're shorthanded.

I did get that. I just failed to communicate humour. My bad.

Strange. I know plenty of people who enjoy cuisine and don't mind the occasional Burger King.

There's a difference between an occasional Burger King and being stuck cooking to a timer. I enjoy baking, but part of my enjoyment of it is being able to be flexible and experiment. I probably would hate working in a restaurant kitchen as well, come to think of it. Cooking to a set menu isn't my thing, really.

Regardless, my post was simply an attempt to be somewhat lighthearted and a bit funny, I failed to communicate it, I apologise.

[Zyanya]

LOL. L33t jurks, jus cause i donet, talk gud u r gonna ignor my p0sts whut 4? u r al sn0bs!!!11eleven!

lik u right so gud. haha u mispselled humor! fine u dont want to red my posts i do'nt care.

[Seshat]

Did not! U r just jelos coz u dont spel rite ova in merika.

[DesignFox]

Did not! U r just jelos coz u dont spel rite ova in merika.

*snickers*

[AFPheonix]

whatevah! I do whut I want!

[protege]

Did not! U r just jelos coz u dont spel rite ova in merika.

Huked on foniks wurked fur yu.... :D

[Zyanya]

There is a guy on a debate board I frequent that recently posted a huge wall of text post. He did not capitalize, barely used periods, had atrocious grammar, and averaged 3 misspellings in a sentence.

He wondered why none of us responded to him.

Finally, one of the more patient answered one of his 'red my posts' postings with the statement of 'we noted the effort you made in your post and figured you didn't have anything worth saying'

[Rapscallion]

Finally, one of the more patient answered one of his 'red my posts' postings with the statement of 'we noted the effort you made in your post and figured you didn't have anything worth saying'

I may have to borrow that.

Rapscallion

[aniwahya]

And gbm85 is right. People who are cooking at McDonald's are generally people who have issues with communicating effectively.

I worked at Taco Bell for two years, earning money to help defray college expenses. What expectations of my competency in forming coherent sentences with properly used spelling and grammar do you have for me based on the above sentence?
What if I told you that I have had advanced college level scores in both reading and reading comprehension since third grade? Would I then be considered an exception to the norm, or would that line of thought then require that you consider me a liar?
*I agree tests are just tests and don't predetermine how successful or how effectively intelligent someone is, but if they can arbitrarily argue that working at McDonalds is indicates a deficiency in a persons ability to communicate, then I think it is within the bounds of fair play for me to be able to arbitrarily argue that testing scores showing a high propensity for reading and comprehension skills show an ability to communicate well, at least in written form.*

Moving on, lest I lose my ability to hold a civil dialogue.

The subject of grammar is one that can be personally frustrating for me. My brain moves faster than my fingers, and often while sharing my thoughts I move from one subject to another with a focus that makes it difficult for me to notice what I would otherwise consider to be an obvious typo or grammatical error. Almost every post I make is edited to correct mistakes I notice upon rereading them. I often blame the cadre of typo demons my friends have collected and then unleashed upon me with malicious glee.
If someone who notices a mistake I made, it won't bother me. Depending on the degree of the mistake, and whether it is impeding people from being able to understand what I wrote. Also worth considering, I have what is generally considered to be a decent sized working vocabulary. Unfortunately the growth of my vocabulary has directly impacted my spelling accuracy for the worse. Due to this, depending on how it is phrased, and whether the person makes a habit of correcting my posts, having someone lecture me about my misuse of the English language can seriously vex me. Especially when people assume I am stupid because of an occasional misspelling or grammar error.

Question directed towards those who find leet speak to be an offensive form of communication.. I sometimes use leet speak for dramatic effect. It is by no means a pervasive thing in my posts, but would the mere presence of it in any form be enough for you to ignore a post?

[the_std]

Question directed towards those who find leet speak to be an offensive. I sometimes use leet speak for dramatic effect. It is by no means a pervasive thing in my posts, but would the mere presence of it in any form be enough for you to ignore a post?

Leet speak, or lolcat speak (OMGZ!!!!111111eleventy-onez) can be very appropriate, depending on the subject.

bu7 p30p13 wh0 74lk l1k3 th1s 4ll 7h3 71m3? No thanks.

[BlaqueKatt]

I just came here to post something from an icon I saw on LJ.

"English-the language that beats other languages over the head with a lead pipe and then rifles through the pockets for spare vocabulary."

[Lace Neil Singer]

As far as I'm concerned, as long as a person has made an effort to use basic grammar and spelling to make their post readable, then I'm fine with it. I'm not about to start stabbing people over an occasional spelling mistake, or misplaced comma, or odd shortened word. For one thing, I'm a lazy typist and I use the odd shortened word myself. :)

However, the following sentences are unacceptable:

h1 ma n4m3 i5 ch470773 1 71k3 2 5h0p 47 h07 70p1c c0z 1 4m 73h g0f1k.

hi hw r u do u wnt 2 cht? wat do u do at skool?

I super mod a forum that has quite a few teens on it, and one thing that my fellow mods and I will not allow is leet, chatspeak, huge or badly coloured text, or all capitals. It doesn't take long to type your message so people can read it and it stops people from thinking that you're a complete idiot.

[Wicked_Lexi]

I find the fact that people use "TXT" speech in exams disturbing and sad. My grammar and spelling is not perfect but it's a lot better than most of the people I work with including managers who email me requests.

I don't even use "TXT" speech when I am SMSing because I find it harder to think it words missing letters and that leaving out punctuation annoys me. I hate getting messages like this:

"hi hws u? wat goin on 2nite wanna go sumwher an get a coffe" etc etc etc

I find that it takes me MORE time to read that^ than:

"Hi, How are you? What is going on tonight? Do you want to go somewhere and get a coffee?"

I don't see this as elitist at all but I think some people do because there are people out there who are Elitist about grammar aka the Grammar Nazi so commonly known on the internet.

I do however find "Lolcat speak" really funny and cute... weird I am

[Lace Neil Singer]

Everything in its correct place. As a caption on a funny cat picture; yes. In someone's post on a message board; no.

[Zyanya]

My standards vary depending on which board I am frequenting.

One the Customer's Suck board (and I mean no offense here), I am not the slightest bit annoyed to see some spelling and grammar errors and poor punctuation. I actually expect them, as its the kind of board where people are more likely to do 'stream of consciousness' writing while in a foul mood.

On the debate board at my college, not only do I expect to see excellent grammar, I also expect to see references automatically cited in proper format and footnotes.


It is rather like the difference between a casual conversation between friends and a formal speech given to the public.

[Hemily]

My English ain't exactly the best around, i tend to make myself understood, but i ain't gonna win a writing competition.

However, the main problem i have, wich i see clearly myself as well, is proper use of some words, like wich, it always comes up with a red line under it, but i've yet to find out why...

proper use of commas as well, i use them frequently, a bit too frequently i think, same with punctuations.

The biggest one... is the odd use of "..." and dividing up my text, i tend to end up with a huge block of text, and end sentences meant in jest with a ":p"

I still feel like i make myself understood though, and not seem like one of those twitchy Halo players on Xbox Live that keep screaming into the microphone like a rabid dog, about tea-bagging, killing and noobs, while foaming at the mouth.
But... that's an entirely different rant :p

i don't see spelling as elitism, the idiots who can't even spell one single word in their native language, calling people whom have at least some grasp of common English, Elitists, probably are the elitist.

lol, n00b u speel, u sux, ur not prt of teh kewl croud!

[the_std]

like wich, it always comes up with a red line under it, but i've yet to find out why...

There is no English word "wich", as you're spelling it. There are two closely related words, and the one you're looking for is "which". The definition of "which" is:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
–pronoun
1. what one?: Which of these do you want? Which do you want?
2. whichever: Choose which appeals to you.
3. (used relatively in restrictive and nonrestrictive clauses to represent a specified antecedent): The book, which I read last night, was exciting. The socialism which Owen preached was unpalatable to many. The lawyer represented five families, of which the Costello family was the largest.
4. (used relatively in restrictive clauses having that as the antecedent): Damaged goods constituted part of that which was sold at the auction.
5. (used after a preposition to represent a specified antecedent): the horse on which I rode.
6. (used relatively to represent a specified or implied antecedent) the one that; a particular one that: You may choose which you like.
7. (used in parenthetic clauses) the thing or fact that: He hung around for hours and, which was worse, kept me from doing my work.
8. Nonstandard. who or whom: a friend which helped me move; the lawyer which you hired.
–adjective
9. what one of (a certain number or group mentioned or implied)?: Which book do you want?
10. whichever; any that: Go which way you please, you'll end up here.
11. being previously mentioned: It stormed all day, during which time the ship broke up.

There are also "witch" as in "a woman who practices magic".

Other than that, your English is pretty good! None of the other things you mentioned are any kind of real problem. It certainly doesn't make your writing illegible.

[Boozy]

My English ain't exactly the best around, i tend to make myself understood, but i ain't gonna win a writing competition.

I wouldn't have known that English was a second language for you if you hadn't mentioned it. You're heads and tails above certain people for whom English is their native language.

[Hemily]

There is no English word "wich", as you're spelling it. There are two closely related words, and the one you're looking for is "which". The definition of "which" is:



There are also "witch" as in "a woman who practices magic".

Other than that, your English is pretty good! None of the other things you mentioned are any kind of real problem. It certainly doesn't make your writing illegible.

awesome! i've been wondering on the correct spelling on that word for a while now, which... I just need to remember it now :D


I wouldn't have known that English was a second language for you if you hadn't mentioned it. You're heads and tails above certain people for whom English is their native language.

it's not always that great, i have times where a word suddenly escapes me, leaving me scratching my head in confusion, i know what i want to say, but the word has just fled my brain, in search of a better place, it happens even more often when speaking it, instead of typing.

[PepperElf]

I guess I'm semi-elitist then too, because I hate some blatant mistakes.

I'll forgive the occasional slip or people who honestly say that spelling isn't their best feature. I know mine isn't always perfect and I've started sentences with the word "But" before. And I once posted a thread about bad grammer, only to have someone point out that I'd misspelled grammar. (I forgot what I wrote back but I did laugh). Also, some popular words like LOL I'll forgive because I'm just too use to them, though there is such a thing as overkill.

However ... it all depends on who I'm talking to and their attitude and what their writing for.

1) Official signs or notices. ... Mistakes on these can be costly, in both re-print costs and making the company (or whomever) look stupid.

One of the most classic blunders I've ever seen was a series of signs promoting "EDUATION OPPORTUNITIES." Yes, they misspelled "Education" on a sign promoting getting an education. What's even sadder was the fact that these were professionally printed.

2) Pulling an "attitude".
Most often seen in chat rooms, but... it's the attitude that some 1337-speakers have that making no effort whatsoever to even learn how to spell will somehow magically NOT matter when transitioning into adult life.

I'm not talking about the occasional misspelling of a word or mixup of they're, their, and there. I mean people who honestly think it's appropriate to use "ur" and "plz" at all times. Or, when they're angry about other people disliking such laziness, a rash of ironically misspelled words like "Fuk"... Actually that parts somewhat amusing, though they dislike being told that.

3) Calling someone else stupid or an idiot while using said bad grammar or spelling. Like "Your stupid!"
If I see that I often reply that "Before calling someone else stupid, it would be a good idea to learn the difference between Your and You're. It just ruins the whole 'I'm smarter than you are' effect when you don't even spell the insult properly."



As for being an Elitist... No.
Not unless your real name is George Bernard Shaw (or Henry Higgins) ;)

[guywithashovel]

I usually use pretty good grammar, sentence structure, and spelling when I write. Sometimes I'll write something and then read it and find a glaring, embarrassing grammatical mistake or misuse of a word. At the same time, though, I rarely make a big deal when someone makes a language mistake while talking to me, or when I see a mistake in an online post. It's not that I don't care about good language skills. I actually do. Just read my posts. They may not be perfect, but they are quite well-written, even if I do say so myself. It's just not something I fuss too much about when I'm on message boards and in chat rooms.

Also, when you're reading online forums such as this one, you should be careful before you write someone off as uneducated and/or lazy because his posts are a little choppy, because the person responsible for the post may be someone who doesn't speak English as a native language. Remember, English is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. It has more words than most other languages have, and it has more grammar rules. Plus, some of its rules are pretty esoteric. If the person is a non-native speaker who is in the process of perfecting such a language as a second (or third or fourth) language, then I don't think that person deserves to be treated like a moron. If anything, it means this person knows more than one language.

[BroomJockey]

someone who doesn't speak English as a native language.

Except I've seen more native language speakers do more on their own to butcher the language than any 5 non-native speakers. I've seen hundreds of nearly flawless posts around the net that have the line "Excuse my poor English, I'm still learning."

[Lace Neil Singer]

Agreed. I've seen loads of people who are from another country (example a girl from Germany on another board who always types her posts in perfect English) who always put in good grammar and spelling... and morons who are native English speakers who type all in leet, gangsta slang or chatspeak, and who have an attitude when it's pointed out to them that typing like that just makes people assume they're stupid and therefore negates any point they're trying to make. *head desk*

[rdp78]

I don't like it when people only use lower (or upper) case letters or they have a bunch of typos. I don't mind if you can't spell a difficult word, heck, I probably can't spell it myself but if it's a common word then you should know better. I also think it's bad when people use mostly text message stuff or just don't make any sense.

I know I ussually try to proofread my posts and make sure I understand what I am writing. Yes, I make typos but usually I try to correct them before posting.

[powerboy]

A potential employee who takes the time to proofread an application before he or she turns it in is the kind of person that I wanted working for me.


What if someone who does proofread it and over looks it? What then?

I didn't know that if someone who is working fast-food is to damn stupid to function in the real world. Learn something new every day. What if they are in school trying to earn some spending money? Or it is a second job? Or even if the person is retired and earning some extra cash? GBM, I think that you need to step back and walk a mile in s fast food cooks shoes.

[Boozy]

What if someone who does proofread it and over looks it? What then?

Then it's their attention to detail, not laziness, that will be the issue. The lack of attention to detail is acceptable in some jobs. In many jobs, it's not okay.

Resumes with spelling errors gets tossed in the garbage. I don't care if the resume was proofread poorly or not proofread at all. The end result is still faulty.

[powerboy]

So they could be the greatest employee in the world. But on their resume, they didn't capitalize the letter "I" (for example) that their resume would be tossed?

[TheRoo]

So they could be the greatest employee in the world. But on their resume, they didn't capitalize the letter "I" (for example) that their resume would be tossed?

When I was hiring people, sometimes there would be dozens of applications for a single position. I couldn't interview them all, and a good way to weed out the people who can't be bothered by minor things like spelling and grammar was to toss out the applications that had errors in it.

[Boozy]

So they could be the greatest employee in the world. But on their resume, they didn't capitalize the letter "I" (for example) that their resume would be tossed?

Yes. Like TheRoo said, I'm not going to interview every person in the world, regardless of what their resumes look like, just in case I find a diamond in the rough.

More importantly, there are some jobs where not capitalizing the "i" on a report for clients is a major problem. The lack of proofreading abilities automatically means they aren't the "greatest employee in the world."

[protege]

Take where I work. I work for a brokerage company. There's quite a bit of data entry involved. Any mistakes...could cost us money, or get us into trouble with the regulators. That's why we're constantly checking reports and other data.

When we get resumes in, quite a few have spelling, or other errors. Those, I don't even bother with. They go right into the trash. We feel, that if you're not going to put in the effort of getting your resume in order...you're going to do the same if you work for us. In other words, why should we hire you?

[Dreamstalker]

I don't like it when people only use lower (or upper) case letters
I don't like that either. For some reason, all lowercase is more annoying to me than "yelling".

There's a dyslexic user on one of my forums who capitalizes the first letter of every word...it's a tad jarring to read, but it's known why they do it.

Resume formats generally confuse me. Everyone wants it done a different way it seems, with different contents. My job counselor wants me to include so much detail that in order to be legible (realistic font size) it goes onto a second page...correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most employers like resumes to be one page?

[guywithashovel]

Resume formats generally confuse me. Everyone wants it done a different way it seems, with different contents. My job counselor wants me to include so much detail that in order to be legible (realistic font size) it goes onto a second page...correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most employers like resumes to be one page?

I think the "one-page resume" has pretty much become a thing of the past. In my career field, we are actually encouraged to have multiple-page resumes. Also, I have read other resources that say that it's okay go use more than one page for your resume. The key is mainly to get the reader's attention on the first page.

Resume formats can be confusing, though. It really does seem like every single person thinks they should be written differently.

[AdminAssistant]

I just got an e-mail from a student. All lowercase letters, no periods or commas, just a big block of text. GAH! It's so hard to read! If you're going to e-mail your teacher to ask about how you did on a paper, wouldn't you at least somewhat proofread it?

[DesignFox]

I just got an e-mail from a student. All lowercase letters, no periods or commas, just a big block of text. GAH! It's so hard to read! If you're going to e-mail your teacher to ask about how you did on a paper, wouldn't you at least somewhat proofread it?

If it were me, I'd probably tell the student that I can't read their email. I'd make them ask properly before I answered them.

I do that to my 15 year old brother. If he emails me in text speak, I won't answer him. I tell him that he must use full sentences and punctuation if he expects an answer from me.

He caught on pretty quickly. ;)

[kiwi]

Im dyslexic (I had to be tested at highschool and university to qualify for extra help) and try as I might, I just don't "get it". I simply can not understand the rules of spelling, grammer, syntax.

Im a highschool grad, I have a BA in two essay writing subjects (History and Art History) and I was invited in to the honors programme but for the life of me I could not tell you where the correct place to put a , or a "". I struggle with putting a proper sentance together and paragraph structure is a battle. I still get there, their and the're wrong, heck Im almost 26 and I still can not tell my left from my right most of the time.

I also can not do algebra at all, I understand what they are asking, I understand the steps to solving the equation... but blow me down if I could get the numbers on the page to stay still. My dyslexia is made much worse when I feel pressured or as if people feel I am "dumb" because I put a . in the wrong place.

But holy crap I try, I had a tutor for 4 hours a week my entire school life, at uni I had tutors help me (not on my actual subjects but on my english skills) and strange enough, I always came in the top ten in my school in standardised tests(passing tests like that is half knowlegde and half test taking skill).... in fact one of my essays in highschool was ranked 3rd in the country, go figure!

There is a huge difference to me when someone genuinely struggles with english but they try and people who just can not be bothered at all.
But to be honest if someone thought I was less intelligent just because part of my brain does not connect like it should, I would think that reflected on them as a person a hell of a lot more than it would reflect on me.

[DesignFox]

Kiwi- just by reading your posts, I wouldn't know you are dyslexic. :)

[Dreamstalker]

Kiwi- just by reading your posts, I wouldn't know you are dyslexic. :)
Me neither :)

FWIW, anything more complicated than addition/subtraction with fractions confuses the hell out of me still. I can do some simple multiplication, but tend to take a somewhat complex-to-anyone-else shortcut.

I've had one or two employers think I was "slow" (GameStore owner sticks out in that regard)...I didn't disclose my Aspergers because it wasn't relevant to the job/would not affect my performance. Either way, condescending to me if I don't catch something the first time (most likely case of this is someone going too fast) pisses me off bigtime.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My older brother has severe dyxlexia (possibly, too, undiagnosed Aspergers; my mum and I also think there's a chance that my dad also has it. There's no point in shaking things up at this point in time, tho), however, if you read an email or anything typed or written by him you wouldn't know. He rigorously spellchecks on a computer and often has several drafts in written letters before he sends it off. It's not a hard concept to grasp, to get someone to check over your CV and application form before sending it off. My sister in law checks my brother's written stuff; she's kind of like his beta.

[Flyndaran]

Me neither :)

FWIW, anything more complicated than addition/subtraction with fractions confuses the hell out of me still. I can do some simple multiplication, but tend to take a somewhat complex-to-anyone-else shortcut.

I've had one or two employers think I was "slow" (GameStore owner sticks out in that regard)...I didn't disclose my Aspergers because it wasn't relevant to the job/would not affect my performance. Either way, condescending to me if I don't catch something the first time (most likely case of this is someone going too fast) pisses me off bigtime.

An inability to do basic math is a learning disability. Most people think that everyone has levels of intelligence even across the board. Of course they might think you are slow if they initially only know this aspect.
We all make assumptions. You were angry because they made an assumption that wasn't true but only because of information they didn't have?
That seems a bit unfair.
Now, if after they were given sufficient information they still treated you differently, then they were idiots irrespective of testable intelligence.

[kiwi]

Grammar Police (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9_kahA_wQo&feature=topvideos)

I thought you people would like this :D :rolleyes:

[Dreamstalker]

An inability to do basic math is a learning disability. Most people think that everyone has levels of intelligence even across the board. Of course they might think you are slow if they initially only know this aspect.
Math itself I have little trouble with, it's only fractions that throw me at times (and only then specific ones)...interestingly, convert the same fractions to decimal notation and have no problems at all. I can handle a register, and was always one of the few people who could still process transactions if the register was down.

Any disability I may have has little if anything to do with academic/executive functioning. GameStore guy was a control freak who didn't like my taking the reins of what I was hired for.

[Flyndaran]

...
Any disability I may have has little if anything to do with academic/executive functioning. GameStore guy was a control freak who didn't like my taking the reins of what I was hired for.

The a-hole ex making a mountain out of a molehill, again?

[the_std]

Aaaarrrrgh... I just saw another thread on CS that makes me want to bash my head against a wall. It's called a SPELL-CHECK! Hell, Firefox does it automatically for me! That little red underline shows up and all you have to do is right-click and it will show you the correct word!

I don't know why, but mistakes in the titles of threads piss me off the most. It's the initial presentation of the post, why not take the time to make sure it looks good?

[katie kaboom]

I don't know why, but mistakes in the titles of threads piss me off the most. It's the initial presentation of the post, why not take the time to make sure it looks good?

My guess is some people just get so caught up in needing to vent they just don't notice it until it's too late. At that point, I would assume that only a mod could go in and correct the thread title.

[Rapscallion]

It's a strange quirk of the software that the original poster can change the title inside the thread, but the alteration outside has to be done by a moderator. Not sure why, but we're quite amenable to changing something if it's pointed out to us.

Rapscallion