Thoughts on Dissection?

[JuniorMintz]

I'm in the middle of an intense Biology course with lots of lab time, so this is something that I've been thinking about lately. What are your thoughts on dissections?

The animal lover in me is totally squicked out at the idea. ESPECIALLY if I were the one who would have to kill the specimin (E.T. always wigged me out when I was a kid, LOL) The rest of me that is considering going into clinical lab science knows that dissections are not done without good reason.

Personally, I feel that for your every day, general ed. Bio course (Jr High/High/College), you could get quite a bit of basic anatomy through other means, like plastic or virtual models, without having to actually cut up a frog or an eyeball.

For advanced courses (Jr High/High) or courses for science majors, dissections would still be standard.

That's just me though. And, as of today, I am not aware of any planned dissections in this course. Of course, now that I've said something, I've probably jinxed us all. :eek: :o

[RecoveringKinkoid]

In school, I had no problem disecting something dead.

However, I flat out refused to harm a live animal and so did every single one of my classmates in HS biology.

We had this asshole teacher (and he was an asshole for many reasons) who decided we were gonna do that thing where you lobotomize the frog and then disect it alive.

I said, "you know what? I'll take the F. That's way too messed up for me." And so did everyone else.

We didn't do the project and I didn.t get an F. Which is something when you considered the guy hated me. :cool:

[Flyndaran]

Dissections are necessary evils of modern science.
Now vivisections are abomonations unto every good act ever performed by humane humans.

[JuniorMintz]

Now vivisections are abomonations unto every good act ever performed by humane humans.

This could possibly be the first time and only time I'll agree with you, but on this point I'm with you 100%... so much so that I had to quote you for emphasis. Vivisections are VILE and at this point in academia and medicine, *totally* unnecessary.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Before the school was grant maintained; we watched videos of dissections. After, we did dissections. I know which one I prefer. -.-

By the way, we never dissected frogs; we had animal hearts, kidneys, lungs etc. The lungs were macabre; the science teacher blew down a tube attached to the windpipe to inflate them. o_O

[Nyoibo]

I don't really have a problem with dissection, plastic models and pictures are all well and good, but actually being able to peel back the fascia or dura and be able to see each layer of membrane and tissue and to be able to feel it gives a whole new level of understanding.

[Greenday]

If you'll ever need to know something about bodies, actual experience with the body makes a world of a difference. I've done plenty of dissections at this point so they don't phase me at all.

Though with my last cell physiology lab, the directions started with: Kill a rat, then proceed to take 3 grams of liver...

Luckily they already had the bits of liver for us.

[fireheart17]

Only dissection I actually did in high school was a lamb's heart. Bought from a shop.

I actually refused to cut it. My friend did it. I was a bit more squeamish than anything.

Most of the parts we found out were sourced from butcher shops, rather than anywhere else, so we weren't required to kill anything.

[MergedLoki]

I never disected anything in HS. No one in my school did. Just wasn't part of the biology course.

and honestly I dont see why it's needed in ANY HS science course anywhere.

Because when you're 15 or 16. there's NOTHING you NEED to know about the inside of a frog or mouse or whatever that you can't learn from a textbook or lectures or whatever.

I'm sure some kids think it's 'cool' due to the gross out factor it has on other students.

I mean once your older and out of HS if you're in some kind of college/university course that has disections.. You'll do it then. and it WILL be necessary as it would be a part of your job (coroner comes to mind).

But a teen doing it for an HS biology course. No point whatsoever.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Most of the parts we found out were sourced from butcher shops, rather than anywhere else, so we weren't required to kill anything.

This. One girl flatly refused to go anywhere near the organs cuz she was a vegetarian. The teacher insisted that if she wasn't going to cut, she at least had to watch.

[DesignFox]

We did quite a few dissections in HS and College.

We never had to kill anything. I don't think I could handle doing the actual killing... :(

As far as opening the animal and checking it out, I thought that was kinda cool. I usually let my lab partner do the actual cutting, while I did all the note taking and drawing. Just looking at the systems in a book doesn't do it justice. You really get a better appreciation of the intricacy of life and how the different systems interact when you actually LOOK at it first hand.

To be honest, I never did get to dissect a frog, and that kinda pissed me off since I was an AP Bio student... (we did get to dissect rats, though...)

Now, I believe a lot of schools give kids the option of doing a virtual lab, or the real thing...

[Flyndaran]

If you eat meat, then not dissecting for learning purposes is just squeamishness.
As someone that is almost incapable of being grossed out, I may have too little sympathy for the squeamish.

[violetyoshi]

In school, I had no problem disecting something dead.

However, I flat out refused to harm a live animal and so did every single one of my classmates in HS biology.

We had this asshole teacher (and he was an asshole for many reasons) who decided we were gonna do that thing where you lobotomize the frog and then disect it alive.

I said, "you know what? I'll take the F. That's way too messed up for me." And so did everyone else.

We didn't do the project and I didn.t get an F. Which is something when you considered the guy hated me. :cool:

The teacher sounds like a sociopath anyways, given he wanted the class to torture animals for his enjoyment.

[Tanasi]

It's been so long for me I don't rightly remember for sure. Seems like we dissected a worm, a small perch type fish, a frog and a chicken. The chickens were live when they were received. A girl asked how we were going to dispatch the the chickens and the bio teacher just looked at me and said show her. I took one from the cage and wrung it's neck. More than one student puked on their shoes that day. :p:D

[AdminAssistant]

We did a worm, a starfish, and a frog. All I remember is that it stunk to high heaven. Yuck.

[violetyoshi]

It's been so long for me I don't rightly remember for sure. Seems like we dissected a worm, a small perch type fish, a frog and a chicken. The chickens were live when they were received. A girl asked how we were going to dispatch the the chickens and the bio teacher just looked at me and said show her. I took one from the cage and wrung it's neck. More than one student puked on their shoes that day. :p:D

So the students who puked showed a natural inclination to have empathy for other living things, while you showed a lack of that natural inclination. Perhaps you should think about that.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Actually, I'd say Tanasi showed the natural inclination of an animal that is very near the top of the food chain, which is what a human is.

Nature is not gentle nor is it forgiving or compassionate. I believe the scientific term for it is "fucking brutal." Our squeamishness is a side effect of our civilization being far removed from the process of how we eat.

I personally would not have been able to do that. However, I'm not going to sit here and claim that a top predator killing a prey animal shows any sort of unnatural inclination. It doesn't.

And yeah. I go outside a lot. I've been a hobby naturalist my whole life, and there are parts of it even I don't want to see. However, I don't kid myself about what nature is or isn't.

Perhaps you should think about that.

[Nyoibo]

So the students who puked showed a natural inclination to have empathy for other living things, while you showed a lack of that natural inclination. Perhaps you should think about that.

I assume from that comment that you are either a vegetarian or vegan and do not wear any leather or animal goods, if not perhaps you should think about that.

It's been so long for me I don't rightly remember for sure. Seems like we dissected a worm, a small perch type fish, a frog and a chicken. The chickens were live when they were received. A girl asked how we were going to dispatch the the chickens and the bio teacher just looked at me and said show her. I took one from the cage and wrung it's neck. More than one student puked on their shoes that day.

It's always amazed me the number of people who eat meat but who are shocked to see an animal die, where do they think the meat comes from? And I swear, if I meet someone who answers "the supermarket" I'm going to have to smack them.

[Cat]

The coolest dissection I've done was for a middle school class....we dissected a store bought chicken thigh....then, because we were also studying the digestive system....we cooked them over bunsen burners and ate 'em. (we also studied the kindling point of marshmallow and the melting point of chocolate) Actually...I think that experiment made me a vegetarian for the first time.

Then in HS I dissected a flower, ha, it was actually fun. I sat out on the frog though. Still got an A for the class :)

Personally, I think dissection is unnecessary unless its an AP for college bio class. Then, if you can't handle the dissection, switch your major :)

Yeah, I love when people who eat meat cannot handle how the meat gets to theit plate...I can derail the thread wit tales, but I won't

[Lace Neil Singer]

I know where meat comes from; I used to work with animals on a country park that had a stable of shire horses and an animal farm. One day, three chickens died. The same day, we had eight hungry owls and two hungry hawks; our usual supplier hadn't delivered and we couldn't get hold of them. I think it's obvious what conclusion we came to. XD

There are far too many people who get self righteous when it comes to eating meat. Sorry, but human teeth show that eating meat is natural; canine teeth exist for a reason. Also, I'm not squeamish at all about dissection, or blood like some people are. Doesn't mean I'm heartless, any more than a person swatting a fly is; remember the Presidentual Fly Execution? XD

[blas87]

I made sure to skip school on those days.

If I really wanted to know, I'd google image it. And yes, it was around back then.

[Flyndaran]

I'm not a vegetarian, but I loath watching anything die. Not being able to go the humane route of vegetarianism does not make me a hypocrite. It only makes me a biological omnivore like most people.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm not a vegetarian either, and I understand that animals die to feed other animals. However, I have a strong aversion to killing an animal I have no intention of eating.

Clearly, the frogs in my biology class were not our lunch. In fact, had they not sent frogs over in jars of formaldehyde, I would have refused to kill them for a simple dissection. But since they were dead already, I was okay with dissecting them (there are probably hairs to be split here, but I'm not going to bother. I was 15 and trying to get through a class with an asshead teacher.)

When Professor Asshead decided we were going to vivisect some live ones, me and everyone else just drew the line. There is no reason to do that other than the teacher was a walking rectum.