Joel Osteen - Good Christian example or overhyped salesman?

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Osteen of course has one of the biggest churches in the United States and has in fact been named the most influential Christian in that country. He has also sold millions of books, DVDs and other merchandise, netting himself a ton of money.

My wife doesn't like him much because she believes he presents a largely watered down version of Christianity. In simple terms, she thinks he "focuses too much on the good and not enough on the bad". That is to say, he often speaks of God's love and forgiveness but not as much about his punishment and wrath.

I'm rather indifferent on him. I don't find him overly annoying but I don't watch his shows by choice or buy any of his books. There something about his smile that always makes him seem a bit...phony.

Then there's question of whether Osteen is really what he claims to be, that is a special individual chosen by God to be a great leader and spread the Gospel to millions, or whether his slick approach to ministry is more like an elaborate infomercial so he can keep selling those books and DVDs based on his interpretation of Christianity and the Bible.

[Pedersen]

Then there's question of whether Osteen is really what he claims to be, that is a special individual chosen by God to be a great leader and spread the Gospel to millions, or whether his slick approach to ministry is more like an elaborate infomercial so he can keep selling those books and DVDs based on his interpretation of Christianity and the Bible.

Well, since I've already established in another thread that Christianity, as taught and practiced today, cannot possibly be correct in its core tenets, I'm going to vote for him being a very good salesman.

Now, whether he believes what he's preaching is a whole different story. Since I've never heard the name before about 5 minutes ago, I've got no opinion on his beliefs.

[Flyndaran]

I've never heard of him. But doesn't the bible tell of false prophets, and that a real one would never call himself one? That sounds like the gist of what he implies with his special messenger circumlocution.

[HYHYBT]

If this is who I think it is, the only time I watched one of his speeches, the theme was "God will make you rich if you'll just let him." Which while not *quite* the opposite of my understanding of Christianity, comes pretty close.

[Flyndaran]

If this is who I think it is, the only time I watched one of his speeches, the theme was "God will make you rich if you'll just let him." Which while not *quite* the opposite of my understanding of Christianity, comes pretty close.

I guess he's someone that never read Job... or got the idea that god can be a prick to good people.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

http://top-people.starmedia.com/tmp/swotti/cacheAM9LBCBVC3RLZW4=UGVVCGXLLVBLB3BSZQ==/imgJoel%20Osteen2.jpg

This is the guy I am talking about. His church is out of Texas and he has a weekly TV program based around his services.

[Nyoibo]

Now I'm imagining a cross between the pope and Tony Robbins.

[IDrinkaRum]

aaaaaand ... Rule #1 almost broken! :D Thanks Nyoibo.

Yeah, that's almost what I get when I accidentally stumble across him when I'm flipping channels.

I like him better than the chick that does a preaching show on TV. Can't remember her name, but she's older than Joel Osteen.

Unlike the OP's wife though, I find it refreshing that he's not focusing on punishment for eternity. That gets incredibly boring and I feel like I'm 5 years old. Hearing about God's love is the thing for many people and the hope for forgiveness. Hearing someone go on and on for an hour about eternal damnation ... really turns people off ... God realized that when he sent his Son. And Jesus talked a lot of about forgiveness and love, not about punishments neither.

[Flyndaran]

...
Unlike the OP's wife though, I find it refreshing that he's not focusing on punishment for eternity. That gets incredibly boring and I feel like I'm 5 years old. Hearing about God's love is the thing for many people and the hope for forgiveness. Hearing someone go on and on for an hour about eternal damnation ... really turns people off ... God realized that when he sent his Son. And Jesus talked a lot of about forgiveness and love, not about punishments neither.

If I were a believer, that's the only message I would tolerate let alone follow.
Godspell more than Jesus Christ Superstar to put in really gay terms. ;)

I love me my showtunes.

[lordlundar]

Osteen of course has one of the biggest churches in the United States and has in fact been named the most influential Christian in that country. He has also sold millions of books, DVDs and other merchandise, netting himself a ton of money.

That alone says his faith is misguided. If he is making more for himself than the most basic living expenses, then his motivation is money.

[smileyeagle1021]

you know, he's actually kind of cute in a creepy kind of way, that said, I think Pedersen said it better than I can.

Well, since I've already established in another thread that Christianity, as taught and practiced today, cannot possibly be correct in its core tenets, I'm going to vote for him being a very good salesman.


ETA- new experience has forced me to slightly change my view... it is impossible for him to be a good christian because such a statement is an oxymoron. Either you are a good person (and therefor a bad christian) or you follow christian teachings (the followers of the Christ cult pole vaulted across the line today and have earned Christ my eternal hatred for it).

[otakuneko]

I'm an atheist, and found myself confused as to the controversy around Osteen. The way I see it, he's bringing people to church and in turn christianity who would never have gone otherwise. I simply couldn't understand why any christian could find that to be a bad thing, even if he's preaching a sort of "christianity lite." If even a small number of Osteen-converts shed the training wheels so to speak, it brings more souls to Yahweh.

Then, I realized it's nothing more than typical dogmatic intolerance. :shrug:

[Arcade Man D]

I'm an atheist, and found myself confused as to the controversy around Osteen. The way I see it, he's bringing people to church and in turn christianity who would never have gone otherwise. I simply couldn't understand why any christian could find that to be a bad thing, even if he's preaching a sort of "christianity lite." If even a small number of Osteen-converts shed the training wheels so to speak, it brings more souls to Yahweh.

Then, I realized it's nothing more than typical dogmatic intolerance. :shrug:

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that he's preaching a "prosperity gospel", and basically saying that whatever you pray for, God will provide, which is anti-thetical to the whole idea of prayer, which is asking for something, but that doesn't mean God's answer will always be yes. Nothing to do with intolerance.

[Pedersen]

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that he's preaching a "prosperity gospel", and basically saying that whatever you pray for, God will provide, which is anti-thetical to the whole idea of prayer, which is asking for something, but that doesn't mean God's answer will always be yes. Nothing to do with intolerance.

Actually, there's yet another contradiction in Christian dogma: Jesus himself says that all you have to is pray and it will be granted to you. For references, check these quotes from Jesus:

Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

And I've barely gotten started. I'll stop after those three. I really need to work on that thread of mine... One hell of a fire starter once I manage to write it.

[otakuneko]

Actually, it has more to do with the fact that he's preaching a "prosperity gospel", and basically saying that whatever you pray for, God will provide, which is anti-thetical to the whole idea of prayer, which is asking for something, but that doesn't mean God's answer will always be yes. Nothing to do with intolerance.

Sounds kind of like the "Law of Attraction" bunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR27PoeOnXc) in religious clothing.

Actually, there's yet another contradiction in Christian dogma
There are plenty of those. ;)

[BlaqueKatt]

ahh Phil Collins/Genesis sums it up pretty well (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LmTIMTc8NM)


yup I have a song for everything