Plastic surgery

[Giggle Goose]

Specifically, breast augmentation for women. I was just watching "Extreme Makeover" and got that new US Weekly with Heidi Montag and her new breasts on the cover. I say that if it makes you feel better, then go for it. It's no one else's business. But a lot of people I know, mainly older adults, say that young women that get plastic surgery are bad role models. I think they should just keep their mouths shut. I would like to hear everyone's opionion on it, and more importantly, if anyone has had a procedure done or is considering it.

[Greenday]

I think for the most part, most women do not need breast implants. Having big boobs isn't the best thing in the world so I hear. Plus, in my opinion, small boobs can be just as nice as big boobs.

Breast reduction on the other hand, I believe can be necessary. Big boobs can cause back problems and other medical issues. But if you have say a 34 C, I don't believe getting a breast reduction so guys will stop gawking is a good excuse.

[Boozy]

People can and should be able to do what they want to their own bodies.

I am saddened that many women are so unhappy with their bodies that they're willing to go under general anesthesia and cut themselves open. Someone's self-esteem should have nothing to do with how they look.

But its not my body, not my mind, not my business.

[Seshat]

My best friend had an augmentation, and reports that it made her feel a lot better about her body.

We're considering a reduction for me, but only after the major medical issues I have are under better control. (Among other things, they affect how well I heal - ie, badly.)

[AFPheonix]

Interestingly enough, breast implants actually help doctors find tumors in normally small-chested women since they push the breast tissue out more so they fit into the mammogram machine better.
I really don't care one way or another for the most part. The only time I would be concerned is if the patient is obviously suffering from some body dysmorphia and wants to go up to, say, a triple G size or something. At that point, it becomes less of a cosmetic issue and more of a mental health thing, and I think plastic surgeons really ought to steer those patients to someone who can help correct the mental issue before they start in on potentially causing some physical issues.

[rahmota]

Well I gotta say that while it might not be necessary if a person wants to do somethign with their body and they are of sound mind (reasonably) and body (definately) then whatever they want, can afford or get a doctor to do is cool and should be legal. If a person wants to go up to M-cup (Chelsea charms and melanie mounds for two) or get pointed ears, or split their tongue (which is gross and nasty IMO but some people think its cool *shrug*) then oh well. Each generation does stuff that the previous generation looks at in disgust. Just imagine what the next generation will do :)

And as for large breasts cause backpain according to my wife and girlfriend who are both in the DD range (and had been bigger during pregnancy ,wife reached an E cup) that is open for debate. A proper fitting bra, exercise and care of the back muscles and pectorals, and general care of the breasts do not cause back pain. Neither of them have breast related back pain and my cousin who had G cups before she got with a man who basically hounded her into getting a reduction regrets getting a reduction and wishes she could go back up to what she was.

[Seshat]

And as for large breasts cause backpain according to my wife and girlfriend who are both in the DD range (and had been bigger during pregnancy ,wife reached an E cup) that is open for debate. A proper fitting bra, exercise and care of the back muscles and pectorals, and general care of the breasts do not cause back pain.

Large breasts can cause back pain. It's not to say that they will, just that they can. It depends on the individual body structure of the woman involved.

A well-fitting bra and strong muscles will doubtless reduce the risk of back pain, but just as some people have heart attacks or develop diabetes or cancer despite every precaution, some large-breasted women will develop back pain despite properly fitted bras and back and chest mucles that can lift a small horse.

However, your cousin is a good example of why people should only have plastic surgery for their own sakes, not for other peoples'.

[rahmota]

It depends on the individual body structure of the woman involved.


Well yeah thats one of the reasons why I said its open for debate. Using broad blanket terms for stuff like that is somewhat off base. Also there was some debate as I was reading in one of those ladymags (cosmo or something, hey I was bored waitign at the doctors it was there I have an addiction to reading so there ya go!) about the bra vs braless issue and big breasts and back pain and all that jazz. The gist of the article was that women's bras are an unnatural device that actually weakens the human body and causes problems but since modern american society requires women to be ashamed of having bountiful beuaties then a properly fitting bra is a good thing.

I admit I probably am not the best subject to reference that lacking the appropriate appendages and all to compare and all but I do listen to my wife and girlfriend and hear what they say so I dunno. Take it for what you will.

And yeah my cousin learned her lesson a bit too late. She did manage to find a guy to appreciate her for herself and all but still. And yes a person is in control of their own body and should remain so at all times for all reasons.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I'd also say that surgery for cosmetic reasons should be paid for by the person, not the NHS. I know there's a different system in America, but over here we get the ridiculous situation of a woman who wants her C cups made bigger getting a free boob job, whereas a woman with J cups who's spine is curving right over can't get hers reduced for free. It's different if it's an actual health issue, such as having a breast that didn't develop, or a completely flat chest. Otherwise, pay for it yourself.

[rahmota]

Well yeah I'll agree purely cosmetic operations should not be paid for under government programs. Reconstructive operations say after disease or accidents should be covered though.

[Luna]

My breast reduction was covered by insurance. I only had to pay a portion of it. I was up to a G cup and still growing. My spine is permanantly curved and hunched. My neck is messed up. My shoulders are terrible. I can't sit perfectly straight for more than a couple minutes without discomfort. Even the way I stand is ruined b/c of the extra weight I had. I thrust my tush out like a duck, and I realize that it was to alleviate the back pain and later my center of gravity all these years.

Never realized I stood and sat like this until I was horseback riding and it was pinted out to me that I sit on my crotch and not on the seat of my pants like normal people do.

Despite complications, it was the best thing I had ever done. I was in pain. I was being sexually harrassed at work by employees, bosses AND customers. I'd get groped in public. People would whisper and point. I faintly recall one time I flipped out and yelled something to the effect of, "If you think they're fake - don't you think I would have paid for them to f*cking stand up straight instead of sag to my belly button!!!!??" That shut them up real quick.

Now I'm a c cup, bordering on D. That's just right for me. I do want to get reconstructive tattooing done on the side I had complications on to hide the massive scarring. Looking at that made me sad.

But, I no longer have to buy XXXL shirts and hem the sleeves. I can buy a bra off the shelf that doesn't cost me almost $100 a bra. I can wear a button up shirt. I can sleep without binding my chest. I can jog. I can horseback ride. I can do normal people things again. I can walk in public and not be stared at as a freak or a sex object.

It's wonderful. If I told I wasn't able to get this done - I would have wound up in a bad place, I know it. I say surgery - medically needed or not - should be available no matter what.

[Seshat]

It's wonderful. If I told I wasn't able to get this done - I would have wound up in a bad place, I know it. I say surgery - medically needed or not - should be available no matter what.

Your surgery was medically necessary. Your body was being damaged by the excess weight.

Unfortunately, no society on the planet has a bottomless pocket of resources to work with. I believe that it's worth it to the society to provide all medically necessary treatments, but there are people who would use a free-surgery resource to try to look like Barbie instead of themselves-with-a-healthy-body.

I believe that people who think their perfectly healthy body is ugly, or just plain wrong, should receive treatment - but that's a medical necessity and thus covered under it. And the treatment is more likely to be psychological or psychiatric than surgical.

Those who only want to make their perfectly healthy body different from how it is for purely cosmetic reasons, should use their own allocation of social resources - ie, their own money - to do so. It shouldn't be society's place to provide it out of the public purse.

[Brede]

I think it's a shame when women have such low self-esteem they need to surgically alter their body to fit an artificial projection of 'perfect'. However, it is their choice to do so; but I think most would be better off with some therapy. However, when it comes to body mods like tattoos, scarification, I see those quite differntly- they usually aren't to fit in with some pre-concieved notion of ideal, or perfect, and are more often an actual expression of the persons personality. However, any change to the body needs to be very arefully considered, as it will be there for a long time.

[blas87]

On the other hand, if someone suffers such low self esteem that they are practically moles in their home, I say go for it. No one should hate themselves or feel the need to hide.

[Seshat]

That's what I mean by the type of people most likely to need psychiatric or psychological help, rather than surgery, blas. If their medical carers do end up deciding that surgery is a necessity, that's one thing. But the first port of call for people hiding because their body is ugly (presuming no deformity) is psychological/psychiatric screening.

[anriana]

The way plastic surgery is marketed really disturbs me, especially vaginal reconsctruction... it's just icky, icky marketing.

[tropicsgoddess]

I think plastic surgeons really ought to steer those patients to someone who can help correct the mental issue before they start in on potentially causing some physical issues.

Agreed. What gets me is how the obsession of youth and having the perfect body makes people want to run to a plastic surgeon the moment a wrinkle shows up on their faces or because they want to have Angelina Jolie lips or Pamela Anderson bodies.

[MystyGlyttyr]

I have considered it, and I would do it. Which would probably surprise most folks who know of me as the macho tough chick.

Now, not right now. I'm a 40D now and I'm perfectly happy with that. However, I'm not in my peak physical condition right now, not getting to work out as much as I want. When I get into the more arduous exercise five or so times a week for wrestling, I'll probably end up burning off a lot of fat, and as any woman who's lost weight knows, a lot of the weight that goes is in the boobs.

It's not so much that I would feel bad about myself if I didn't have decent-sized boobs, because if it were just for me, I wouldn't give a crap. But I'm also honest about the line of work I'm hoping to get into. 99% of women in wrestling look like fairly muscular supermodels, that's just how it is. Once you get your foot in the door, you can start making your mark, being the good wrestler, but first you have to get looked at, and if you don't have "the look" then it'll never happen.

I don't think of it as a sexist thing. Wrestling is very visually based. Most of the guys fall into one of three basic body styles and it's quite rare to see anything else.

I'm not going to do something crazy with it, though. I'm thinking a C or a D at the biggest. Anything more would get in the way. :D

[Seshat]

I'm not going to do something crazy with it, though. I'm thinking a C or a D at the biggest. Anything more would get in the way. :D

Go for a C. Even a D can get in the way.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Go for a C. Even a D can get in the way.

Nah, not on me. My bone frame is freaking huge so a D on me is probably about like a B on a smaller person. I could go up another cup and probably not notice too much. The only time it's annoying is during a run or something like that. LOL

[Seshat]

Nah, not on me. My bone frame is freaking huge so a D on me is probably about like a B on a smaller person. I could go up another cup and probably not notice too much. The only time it's annoying is during a run or something like that. LOL

Actually, cup size is relative to band size. And band size is relative to the ribcage: ie, bone frame.

You know how as you go up a band size, you have to go down a cup size to have the same breast-coverage? And vice versa: down a band size, up a cup size.

So a B on a small girl is a smaller absolute cup than a B on a big girl, but roughly the same visual effect given the different frames.

I'm 104cm/41" underbust. 128cm/50.5" full bust (no bra). G cup. Yeah, my boobs give me an extra 10" around the ribcage. As a wrestler, you really won't want that.

[MystyGlyttyr]

Yeah, I know what I'm trying to say but it's hard to say it. :) Lemme try again.

I'm already so used to working around a central largeness, with the wide ribs, hips, and whatnot, that it takes a substantial amount of extra largeness to the center to make me notice it's presence. I already work wide and so it'll take a lot to get in the way.

Does that sound more like what I'm trying to say? :confused: Wait, I just confused myself with that question...

[Seshat]

I think I get it.

My suggestion: take a few photographs of the type of bust:body ratio you want with you. Let the surgeon pick out which inserts will give you that ratio. :)

[Shangri-laschild]

Agreed. What gets me is how the obsession of youth and having the perfect body makes people want to run to a plastic surgeon the moment a wrinkle shows up on their faces or because they want to have Angelina Jolie lips or Pamela Anderson bodies.

I've read that Angelina Jolie thinks she looks weird (mouth included). While I think it should be up to that person, I do think that having to go through some sort of evaluation like you would (though doesn't have to be as strenuous) as what you have to go through for a sex change, wouldn't be a bad idea. I honestly think that no matter what, if you want to see things wrong with you, you will. No amount of work you have done is going to change that. That being said, so long as it makes you happy I don't know that I see something wrong with it.

[DarthRetard]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23808301/wid/11915773?GT1=43001

It's sad, she was beautiful and amazing in her own way, and yet, because of a society founded on superficial values, she found it necessary to try and be even more perfect. It's a rare occurrence, for sure, but I knew her, and this tore me up. I took her to my sophomore homecoming dance....:(

[Zyanya]

It's a terrible tragedy.

But not all breast surgery is for superficial reasons. A friend of mine had to have a breast reduction because her boobs were so large they were causing her back problems.

My sister was up to 300lbs at one point, and has lost almost 150 of that. She wants to have some surgery to remove the excess skin and I think she should go for it. If that's superficial, oh well. Losing the weight did wonders for her self-confidence and physical health, the surgery will improve her confidence even more.

[Seshat]

I notice in the article that the family and friends think there was no real risk to the procedure. Is it normal in the US for people to think that there's no risk in surgery?

Out here in Aussieland, everyone (or at least everyone I know) seems to be perfectly aware that all surgery has risks, and all general anaesthesia includes a very real risk of dying.

Surgery is surgery. Anaesthesia depresses the nervous system and is a drug and both of those things can cause reactions. Cutting into the skin damages our biggest organ - the skin - and our major protection against infection (also our skin). Cutting and manipulating tissue involves a risk of injuring it beyond what is planned. Surgery is not to be taken lightly!

I just don't understand the attitude of total surprise that the article seems to reflect. Surgery is bloody dangerous! Do people not know that?

[AFPheonix]

I'm sure you've got some morons even in Oz that would be genuinely surprised about something that the rest of us would think would be common sense.

But yes, this would be her fate if she ever got put under to have her wisdom teeth pulled, too. She had a rare condition that would make her react to many normally safe anesthesia meds. It would have most likely happened sooner or later, as most of us end up having to go under for something at some time in our lives.

[Boozy]

I'm sure you've got some morons even in Oz that would be genuinely surprised about something that the rest of us would think would be common sense.


Agreed. America does not have a monopoly on idiots. They're everywhere, unfortunately.

The US gets unfair attention sometimes because your media is so large and widespread. Everyone has heard of Paris Hilton, for example, but if there's a dumber heiress in Canada or Australia, no one's heard of them.

[Seshat]

I'm sure you've got some morons even in Oz that would be genuinely surprised about something that the rest of us would think would be common sense.

True - but I don't think our media would have reported it quite that way. Which is probably another of the reasons we don't seem to have the same ratio of such people.

I'm sure we do. Unfortunately, I'm related to some of them. (I never see that side of the family.)

I can imagine an Aussie journo's face, hearing something like that. Out of respect for their grief, he'd probably not say anything right then; but he'd also not write the story in a 'the doctors should have toooooolllllddddd us' way.

(Unless the doctors honestly didn't, in which case it'd likely be the trigger for a report on medical negligence.)

But yes, this would be her fate if she ever got put under to have her wisdom teeth pulled, too. She had a rare condition that would make her react to many normally safe anesthesia meds.

Yup. Now, I'd be asking if the hospital and the anaesthetist had done their jobs properly - their duty of care includes being ready for such rare conditions - but every now and then there's one they can't save.

[DarthRetard]

A local article explained it better, actually, Seshat. I see where you're coming from, but basically the doctor had told them that she was NOT at risk for what happened. It wasn't even general anesthesia, it was local. She had some sort of rare genetic issue, I think it was - if i can find the article I'll elaborate further- and so it came as a shock in that sense. Yes, we're all aware that surgery has risks, but no one expected a brimming, healthy 18 yr old girl to die from breast augmentation under local anesthesia.

[Seshat]

A local article explained it better, actually, Seshat. I see where you're coming from, but basically the doctor had told them that she was NOT at risk for what happened.

Ah. Well, that does make it different. The doctor screwed up, advising them of that. EVERY medication has risks. Every surgical procedure has risks.