You don't have a degree so your not educated

[jackfaire]

I have noticed a trend in newspapers, magazines, and in people to come to the conclusion that because I lack a college degree I am not educated.

Why does this premise exist? I read and study every subject that interests me reading the latest research and even applying it to my field, customer service.

A university setting is not required for me to research and study. I can do many forms of these without a collegiate setting. To assume I am an uneducated bumpkin because I don't have a piece of paper saying I am not is quite irritating.

Most irritating example of this I worked with a guy who was a computer science major in college. His computer started running very slow when I suggested he reboot it.

Apparently he not only had never thought of that but had no idea that every once in awhile you need to reboot a computer.

Anyone else have this happen?

[gremcint]

First of all: Irony alert, it's you are or you're not your

Now I agree that just because you have a degree doesn't mean you are smarter than me. It depends on how you earned the degree and where you earned it that matters.

[Mr Slugger]

I'm sure I've said this before. Back a couple of years ago I was looking for a job. And I was told that you needed a college degree in order to get that job. (Beer salesman) Needless to say I had one that couldn't spell deposit or 6 pack on numerous occasions.

As well as I mean I used to work in a training store, where managers came through. They'd come in fresh from college. It wouldn't be more than a week most of them would crash into a wall and rely on us uneducated people to show them how it's done.

To me a college degree is alot like wearing a suit. You can get to the same place by going to college as from experience. The downside is the person wearing the suit always seems to look better.

[MaggieTheCat]

I used to work for a company that had a very small HR department. The department I worked in was sort of a branch of HR, we did a lot of stuff that a normal HR department would do like interviewing and hiring. But we weren't considered HR. There were 3 (at one time, 4) people in HR and they considered themselves far and away superior to us, especially the manager because he had a master's in something-or-another and our manager only had an associate's degree in office administration or something.

Anyway, the company had a large call center, as well as a front desk. The front desk number was different than the call center number; it was for local calls, like people calling to ask if we had job openings or whatnot, whereas the call center was for orders and questions about products. There was only one woman who worked the front desk, and when she went to lunch or had a day off, someone from the call center would have to cover the front desk phone. This didn't always work out real well, 'cuz if the call center was very busy (like around the holidays) giving up even one agent made the call center managers really pissy.

So, we'd ask HR if they could cover the front desk phone. Hey, there's 4 of you and we're doing your job anyway, you can spare someone for a little while. They were all trained on how to answer the front desk phone. However, we were told on multiple occasions by the HR manager, "I'm not about to ask one of my people, who has a college degree, to do a lowly job like answer a phone."

One of the few things that HR actually did was to organize the special events for the employees. During the month of December, the company would have free lunches for all the employees once a week, so HR would head that kind of deal up. They'd stand in the cafeteria ALL DAY and look pretty, asking people how the food was and restocking stuff as it got low and stirring the soup.

So, let's get this straight. If you have a college degree, being a phone agent of any kind is beneath you and you will not do it. However, stirring soup for 8 hours is acceptable.

There were plenty of people who worked in the call center who had degrees of some kind. I'm sure they would have loved to have heard the HR manager's thoughts on them.

[BroomJockey]

Why does this premise exist? I read and study every subject that interests me reading the latest research and even applying it to my field, customer service.

A university setting is not required for me to research and study.

I'll say the same thing now that I said the last time I saw this argument come up.

It's not that you're stupid, or uneducated, it's that someone with a degree can usually* be expected to have certain skills, and the ability to focus on a goal for at least 4 years, and not get kicked out. Further, it's a way to trim down what could otherwise be an unmanageable number of applicants for a position. Without that degree, you've no way to actually prove you've got certain skills and knowledge unless they give you a test, and most companies aren't going to bother to administer a test to every person who applies for a job.


*Can we spare me the innumerable stories of idiots with degrees? They're about as common as sucky customers. Meaning they exist, yes, but they're not the majority. You might be able to name 10, or even 20, but my University graduates over 5,000 Bachelors every year.

[jackfaire]

It's not that you're stupid, or uneducated, it's that someone with a degree can usually* be expected to have certain skills,

Actually this has nothing to do with employment. And I plan on going back to school to get my degree so I can be doing the job I want.

This has to do with individuals who discount my opinion because I don't have a degree. I have noticed in like for example a newspaper article someone will write a letter to the editor and mention in it that of course anyone without a degree won't understand the content of their letter.

Other times I will be in a discussion and people seem to suddenly discount my opinion no matter how smart they thought it was 2 minutes ago because it is revealed I am a college dropout.

Again not a work thing just a person thing.

Edit:

Forgot to add that it wasn't an idiot with a degree story but actually person who treated me like a moron because I don't have one. I got hired as a temp for a company that doesn't hire people without degrees very often. I wowed them with my experience and in the interview. I would try to point out things like rainbow colored excel spreadsheets are hard on the eyes and he would discount my opinion as being that of an idiot. He started respecting my opinion after I showed I actually knew a thing or two about computers. The stuff he was assuming I must be an idiot about were things that you learn in highschool.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I don't have a degree.

I mean, I can't pass college math, are you kidding? I dropped out before they threw me out. I don't know what I was thinking, going to college. Total waste of my parent's money. I still feel bad about that.

I also managed to beat out over a hundred graphic design applicants on my last job. You know why? Because I rock. I possess mad skills and the ability to spin out a breathtaking line of bullshit without even breaking a sweat. If you are me, you learn at an early age to do some fast talking. I mean, I have a freaking learning disability that gets me labled as an idiot if I don't learn to work around it. Good thing I have at least enough ethics to keep me from being a con artist, because I would make a good one.

Listen, I worked at KINKO'S...where we do the resumes of all the idiots and morons with no talent, no skills, and no brains who looked down their noses at us because they thought they were better than us lowly unwashed serfs. I wish I had a nickle for every dumbfuck who came over fresh out of graduation with not a single marketable skill.

I should note some of these people were graphic designers would were unable to design themselves a resume. Please enjoy the irony with me.

My husband's best friend is a score composer with no degree. The best musican I know can't read music. The best computer tech I know flunked out of Francis Marion.

So, yeah. It ain't the bat, babies. It's the balls.

[jackfaire]

I appreciate it Recovering and you might not have seen my second post but not really about jobs. Heck I love my job and I agree I need a lot more schooling before I can be a therapist.

I am referring to the tendency people have to label my opinions as worthless based on my lack of formal schooling.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I know what you mean, but usually, I don't immediately "out" with my uneducated state. ;) I let people get to know me a bit and put the inevitable lable of "brainy, educated artist type" and get used to that. Which they always do.

Then, if it comes up, or I think it might be fun to MAKE it come up, I drop the bomb and watch the fun. Talk about blowing people's expectation and notions to hell and back. :D Here's the thing...if someone discounts your intellect based on what they think rather than what they know, they are far, far too stupid to be someone who's opinions should matter to you.

A similar thing happens to people with my particular "problem" (dyscalculia). It's a very narrowly focused learning disability. If you tested me for math, you'd conclude that I was probably mentally handicapped. However, if you test me in anything else, I come off as far above average. People have said, genuinely suprised, "Oh! I thought you were very smart!" A statment I find both amusing and rather offensive. I usually just counter with "You thought right." If they treat me like I'm stupid based on that narrow field of mental deficiency that I have, I'm going to take them to task for it. Because I am usually way smarter than the idiot calling me stupid.

[jackfaire]

they are far, far too stupid to be someone's who's opinions should matter to you.

I would love to see you say that to my mom :D

Most of the time it's not someone that has the time to get to know me it's a colleague or someone who jumps into a conversation or something. The people who get to know me typically don't care what schooling I have.

[BroomJockey]

This has to do with individuals who discount my opinion because I don't have a degree. I have noticed in like for example a newspaper article someone will write a letter to the editor and mention in it that of course anyone with a degree won't understand the content of their letter.


Hee. Preconceptions are fun. *facepalm* My mistake.

Well then, my opinion on the actual topic, not my personal fantasy-land interpretation: Those people are stupid. Yes, it's possible to understand something without a degree. People usually get a degree for one of two reasons. They enjoy the subject, or they want a specific job. You don't need the degree if you enjoy the topic. As long as you can demonstrate a basic level of competence (spelling, grammar, logic), then you can just do a little research to figure out the expertise portion.

[jackfaire]

Yeah I am working towards going back to school so I can get my psych degree. A field my psych teacher who was practicing for 50 years felt I would be great in.

[Bright Star]

The stupidest people I have ever met are those idiots with college degrees. I'm not impressed.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Man, I heard that. So true.

It's been suggested I go back to school.

I would rather be shoved naked into a barrel full of broken glass and hedgehogs and rolled down a hill. I'm not kidding.

[Boozy]

The stupidest people I have ever met are those idiots with college degrees. I'm not impressed.

Some of the biggest idiots I've ever met don't have college degrees and wear hats on Thursdays.

Basically, they aren't related.

A college diploma (or university degree) gives someone a very specific skill set. I studied history, so I know how to write research papers and find my way around an academic library. I'm going to be "smarter" at those things than someone who doesn't have an arts degree. But given that most of my everyday life doesn't involve those things, my degree makes me no smarter or dumber than anyone else.

[Fashion Lad!]

One of my instructors was saying that, at least in my field, companies hire people with degrees and/or certifications to show that they can be trained. Awesome, huh? :rolleyes:

There are people in my class that make me roll my eyes, flail my arms and look for the nearest exit due to their lack of common sense. But in some areas of education, the perform better than me.

The whole "you don't have a degree, so you're not educated" has *some* truth to it. But to say that that having a degree is the say all end all when it comes to who is educated and who is not is just stupid.

[guywithashovel]

People shouldn't assume someone is stupid, uneducated, or any other negative adjective just for not having a degree. Higher education isn't for everyone. Some people just can't learn very well in a classroom environment.

However, one thing that bothers me about conversations like this is that they often devolve into deriding people that have degrees. People often say that they only have book learning with no common sense. Also, sometimes it's said that a degree is "just a piece of paper." I'll be honest, that bothers me, too. I have a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. That doesn't mean I'm superior to anyone else in any way, but I worked very hard for those degrees, and I learned a lot in the process. They are not "just pieces of paper."

Also, I will echo Broomjockey in saying that the stories (usually dubious in origin) of dim witted people with degrees aren't useful. Most of the time, these accounts go something like this:

"My friend Sarah has a Ph.D. in history, and yesterday I found out that she doesn't even know how to fix a leaky faucet. I guess Ph.Ds aren't all they're cracked up to be."

Why is this account flawed? Well, for starters, they usually don't teach plumbing in history graduate school, so knowing how to fix a faucet is totally unrelated to the degree earned. Also, having a degree isn't supposed to mean the person knows EVERYTHING. It just means you are knowledgeable of the subject you earned your degree in. Sarah with the history Ph.D may not know that much about plumbing, but I bet she knows quite a bit about the past. To make a long story short, finding out that a person with a degree isn't skilled or knowledgeable in a certain field or subject does not negate university degrees.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Well, that is certainly fair. When I talk about idiots at Kinko's, I'm mainly talking about people coming over to have us do something for them that they just spent years getting a degree in....for instance, designing something for a graphic artist.

If you have an art degree, don't come over to Kinko's, ask us to do your graphic design for you, and then deride us for being stupid while we do it.

That's what I'm talking about.

I mean, my husband does not know how to put oil and fluids in his car. I do that for him. He'll burn a car up in a heartbeat because he's so clueless about them. He is also an incredibly sought after web developer with a sky high IQ. Busting someone for not knowing how to do a task is not fair. It does not mean they are stupid or incompetent in their field of study.

[guywithashovel]

Yeah, that's all fair, too.

I really wasn't referring to anyone in this thread. I can understand seeing irony in someone hitting up Kinkos for something they should know how to do themselves, especially if they're looking down at the Kinkos staff at the same time. That's pretty dumb on their part. Neither one of my degrees pertain to design, yet I still write my own resumes. Sometimes I get feedback from other people, but that's kind of different.

[crashhelmet]

My opinion of what the OP experienced was simply a status thing. Because he has a degree he automatically thinks he's better than anyone without. Because he makes $60k a year, he's automatically better than anyone who only makes $55k and so forth.

I see that a lot with people that have their MBAs. They're fresh out of school with their degree and think that they automatically know more than anyone else because of it.

To take that and reverse it, I absolutely love this commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcoDV0dhWPA)

CH

[Boozy]

Also, sometimes it's said that a degree is "just a piece of paper." I'll be honest, that bothers me, too.

That bothers me, too. I gave up four years of my life for my "piece of paper", and I had to work hard to get it. When I hear someone say, "It's just a piece of paper", depending on the tone, I hear "Any moron can get a degree if they have the money."

[RecoveringKinkoid]

People who dismiss you when they find out you have no degree, are similar to people who dismiss you when they find out you have some sort of brain quirk.

It would almost be forgivable (ignorant, but forgivable. Ignorance can be corrected) if they had a knee jerk reaction initially and then then changed it upon getting to know you. But no, some people get to know you, have hard evidence that you are intelligent and competent, then find out you have no degree or have some sort of learning problem, and then dismiss what they know out of hand and start thinking you are stupid.

How'd you like to go from being the brainy professor type to being the feeble minded college dropout inside of 30 seconds? :rolleyes:

[DesignFox]

That bothers me, too. I gave up four years of my life for my "piece of paper", and I had to work hard to get it. When I hear someone say, "It's just a piece of paper", depending on the tone, I hear "Any moron can get a degree if they have the money."

Yea, I have to quote this for truth.

In my experience, I've often gotten made fun of when people find out my degree is Bachelor of Arts with concentration in Graphic Design.

It's like they find out I have an Art degree and all of a sudden I didn't have to do anything to get it. :rolleyes:

My art classes were damn hard work, thank you very much. Not to mention all the art history classes, which involve writing same as any other history class...or my general education classes, science and math and language classes that I still had to take on top of it.

I also tend to take a lot of flack because I decided that Graphic Design just wasn't for me (I really prefer the fine arts). So, I work a crappy sales job. I kinda like my crappy sales job. Maybe I'm not adventurous. Maybe I am playing it safe. But you know what? I'm employed!

In regards to everyone else's job experiences, I have actually found myself stuck between a rock and a hard place sometimes. Because of the college degree, some companies won't hire me because I'm "over-qualified." That's right folks. One MALL job wouldn't promote me to management, and that was one of the reasons. They thought I'd leave because I was "over-qualified."

On the other hand, the big companies wouldn't hire me because I had a degree, but "no-experience." I couldn't win. I gave up. Once school was over, I couldn't afford to be an un-paid intern. I needed medical benefits and a paycheck ASAP.

In my personal experiences, I have never discounted someone's intelligence based upon their formal education. My riding instructor is one of the most sensible people I know and she did not go to college. My father is one of the most successful people I know. He's owned his own business since shortly after graduating high school. You don't need the degree to prove you're smart or to make something of yourself.

I think times have changed a bit, and maybe having a college degree doesn't mean the same thing it meant back when my parents were going out into the world. Certain jobs will always require specific training and proof there-of.

But seriously, to look DOWN on someone and discount their opinion based on their schooling? That's bullshit.

[jackfaire]

I have been contemplating getting my bachelor's in psych so I can be a highschool guidance counselor. I think I could do a lot of good.

Some of the people I know with degrees feel like I know more than them because I have "experienced more of life" as they put it.

The funny thing is some of the people that discount my opinions do not themselves hold college degrees.

[AdminAssistant]

Yeah.

4 years to get a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Theatre Performance. 2 years to get a Master of Arts in Theatre History. In the middle of my second year of a doctoral program in theatre. At least 3-4 years to go.

You tell me those are just "pieces of paper" and I'll knock you right in the fucking teeth. I work very hard, with little pay and resources since I'm in the arts. For me, a Ph.D. is an entrance to a teaching position, so that I can finally do what I've been wanting to do - teach college. But all I hear are people saying, "What can you do with a degree like THAT?" My reply is either, "Frame it and hang it on the wall" or "Roll it up and shove it up your inconsiderate ass" depending on my frame of mind.

Neither of my parents went to college (Dad did a little vo-tech). I have a lot of respect for them and consider them to be very intelligent people. A degree has more to do with opportunity than intelligence.

[protege]

Several people have mentioned that a degree doesn't necessarily make someone intelligent...

The 3rd party tech that my boss does business with...is a fucking moron. He does hold a computer science degree, is Micro$haft certified, etc. Yet, some of the simplest concepts (mapping network drives, installing certain cards, etc.) are well over his head.

Yet, whenever something breaks, I can usually get it running again. Keep in mind that I do not hold a computer science degree--but, I do have one in accounting ;) I've had very little training, other than what I've picked up while working here. In fact, I can usually fix the problems much faster than our 3rd party guy can.

Why? Well, it helps if you built the network in the first place, and know your company's computing specifications :p

[Rapscallion]

Possibly a bit of a tangent here, but a perspective from the other side of the pond. I've just got back from a trip with some chums (just two or three nights), and one of them said that it seemed as if everyone from the US was going to school for about forty years of their lives. I found myself saying some of the things already voiced in this thread - need a degree for what used to just require a warm body (pulse optional).

There's something similar over here - more and more people are getting into higher education, and the exams are getting easier. More and more often you see a demand for someone with a degree for a relatively minor position. When supply outstrips demand, this is what happens - employers can be very choosy.

Rapscallion

[kiwi]

My opinion on this topic may not be popular but here goes away *zips on flame suit*

As University becomes more available, more people get a tertiary education. Therefore it is becoming more standard to have a Bachelor degree in something.
Are you educated without a degree, yes you have a primary and secondary education. If you finished high school.
Are you less educated than a person with a tertiary level degree, yes you are.

Does a tertiary level degree make you any more intelligent/smarter/a better worker/more competent at your job/ able to function in real life. No it does not.

My BF has a diploma, I have a BA. He is by far much more intelligent than I am at physics, chemistry and any kind of mathematics. I am more better than him at subjects such as history and English.
I am technically more educated than he is, but he is hands down a much harder and better worker.

Then there is the debate between formal education and "the school of hard knocks". I believe that someone who has to work their way up from the bottom will usually have a MUCH better understanding of the limits and abilities of those underneath them. Someone who waltzes in with a degree or higher can be utterly useless because they don't understand how things work in real life versus in theory.

Another aspect to this debate is if apprenticeships as valuable as a university education. In my opinion they are and often times much more lucrative. My BF is in the midst of changing from an architecture firm to a trade and although his first years wage will drop below his office job salary, by the time he is a journey man his wage will have almost doubled.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

In my case, here is my problem:
1. I cannot get a degree without some sort of math credit.
2. I cannot pass a college math course. That I was even able to pass one in HS is nothing short of a miracle. And since the logic course they finally allowed me to take instead of math turned INTO math halfway through the semester, you can guess how that ended.

Kids coming through school now have some help in place for them (sometimes) but twenty-thirty years ago, they didn't. So regardless of how intelligent, competent, hard working, etc I am otherwise, it doen'st matter. I can't do calculus, so I should be doomed to be nothing more than a lazy college dropout for the rest of my life.

I mean, none of my other skills matter, right? Fortunately for me, I discovered that while I can't do math, I have a skill of far more value in the real world....the fine art of spinning out some flawless bullshit.

Which is a very useful skill set to have regardless of what field you end up going into.

But hey, I'm not bitter or anything. :mad:

[DesignFox]

Things have changed a lot RK. For one, you're right, there are a ton of programs available NOW that were not available when you went to school, I'm sure.

Depending on the degree, they don't require Calculus, anymore. I know I did not need to take Calc to get my Art Degree. I actually took higher level math classes in HS than I did in college. I just wanted to get my 3 credits and be done with it. My professor gave me an automatic pass on the final because I hadn't scored less than 100% on any of her tests through the semester, and she requested I think about joining her next semester class. *shrug* Anyway, that's how basic the class I took in math was. It certainly wasn't easy for everybody...but it wasn't Calc, either!

I know that my college offered study programs for students with learning disabilities, and untimed testing/tutoring for certain students who just didn't test well, but otherwise understood the class material. I tutored for one such student in biology. With my help, and the extended text taking period, she was able to go from F's and D's, to C's and B's.

It is a shame that stuff wasn't offered to you. Because you certainly sound intelligent to me. To hell with the higher maths. If you wanted to be a physicist or a rocket scientist of some sort, that would be a different story. But that doesn't seem to be your career path of choice...so.... ;)

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Ah, I was just saying calculus for the sake of the conversation. I couldn't pass ANY math. I didn't really think I needed math at all...and my adult life and chosen career path has pretty much validated that belief...so it was particularly vexing to me that THAT of all things was what ultimately kept me from graduating.

One problem I know a lot of dycalculics are running into now are incompetent testers who refuse to give them a positive diagnoses because "well, he just tests too high in everything else, he simply CAN'T have a learning disability."

When you consider that the biggest red flag and diagnostic tool is the disparity between the student's intelligence and high testing in every other subject, that statement is particularly rich.

We still have a ways to go. But it is better.

And thank you for the kind words.

[guywithashovel]

In college I took three math courses: Algebra, Finite Math, and Intro to Statistics. I managed to do okay in them, but statistics gave me quite a few headaches. Interestingly, I did end up using statistics in my research classes, but I had very little trouble with it in those classes. Maybe I just lucked out and found myself at a cool college, but most of the professors there were pretty helpful. If you worked hard and put forth effort, you would usually at the very least pass their classes. The girl who used to cut my hair went to college there, and she had a biology class that gave her and a few classmates a lot of headaches, and the prof told them several times that he would help them through it if they put forth the effort.

When I was in high school, my Pre-Calculus teacher told us that if we went for a four year degree, we'd more likely than not have to take Calculus. I ended up avoiding it, but maybe most other people don't.

On a side note, my mom has a lot of trouble with math, too. She even has a hard time with the problems like

6 + x = 23

4x + 12 = 24

I think that I or my sister tried to explain them to her one time, but it never sank in.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I can do the first one if I count the invisible dots (I count invisible dots...or fingers...have to or I can't even add small numbers).

The second one completely baffles me. WTF is that? :(

Okay, no wait. I just looked at the first one again and tried to work it. No luck. End number is too big and I can't keep track. I would need paper to do that one.

Your mom might be like me.

[gremcint]

6 + x = 23
6 + x - 6 = 23 - 6
x = 17

4x + 12 = 24
4x + 12 - 12 = 24 - 12
4x = 12
4x/4 = 12/4
x = 12/4
x = 3

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Are you trying to trigger an seizure? :eek::o

[jackfaire]

I love math god Finite Mathematics rocked my world. The prof would show his work not necessarily to show us all the steps though that was part of it but also because he knew he would screw up the small details like a plus sign where there should be a minus sign.

I have thought about getting a math book and doing problems out of it for fun because when I solve a problem I get this big rush.

[Slytovhand]

...and the ability to spin out a breathtaking line of bullshit without even breaking a sweat...

the fine art of spinning out some flawless bullshit.

Yeah, I'd noticed that! :p

I'm doing my Master's degree in Applied Linguistics... amd I smart? (well, as it happens, yes :p) But, trust me, most people could do it! It's only about reading, making an opinion, and then presenting it in an essay... not rocket science.

While some of the sentiments towards university degrees is that they are indicative of a level of smarts, universities are, in some ways, lowering their standards for who they will take - and what it takes to pass.

Also, the thread is on 'education' - not smarts. By definition, a university educated person should be more educated than a non-university educated person... not a lot of people choose to educate themselves outside of formal tuition. (*'university' in this example merely referring to any form of tertiary education). Reading technical journals is not the same as actually doing the subject in uni... for one thing, how do you know you've really understood it correctly without some form of testing? (but refer back to my 2nd point on entrance and marking).

Education =\= intelligence!

[jackfaire]

how do you know you've really understood it correctly without some form of testing? !

You test yourself by seeking out "experts" in those fields and discussing your thoughts and ideas with them.

Personally I would love to be able to submit papers to psychology publications and have my work seriously reviewed instead of discounted because I don't have a Phd next to my name. (I haven't tried yet just putting out a hypothetical)

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah, I'd noticed that! :p

!

Hey, sugar, don't knock it, it's gotten me some good jobs! ;)

[jackfaire]

Hey, sugar, don't knock it, it's gotten me some good jobs! ;)

When I was a kid I would practice BSing adults.

[AdminAssistant]

Personally I would love to be able to submit papers to psychology publications and have my work seriously reviewed instead of discounted because I don't have a Phd next to my name. (I haven't tried yet just putting out a hypothetical)

That's simply a matter of competition. In order to submit to peer-reviewed academic journals, you pretty much either have to be 1) a Ph.D. (or equivalent), 2) a Ph.D. candidate (or equivalent), or 3) a freakin' super genius with a strong reputation in the field. There are Ph.D. candidates that are knocking down the doors of journals to get published, so why would these journals take work from those without that level of education?

Not only that, but writing journal articles is a very specific skill set. If you wanted to write an article/publishable paper, you would need to have, at minimum, two-three other experts in your field review the article to let you know what revisions you need to make. I can ask my professors to review my work. Someone not in an academic program probably won't have that kind of support system.

[jackfaire]

Someone not in an academic program probably won't have that kind of support system.

Yeah and I am trying to get back into school but there are time and money constraints I have to deal with. One of which is my back rent I have to get my bills all caught up before I can even think of school. I will make it though I don't care how much time it takes I will have my PhD someday. I promised my dad.

[AdminAssistant]

I will make it though I don't care how much time it takes I will have my PhD someday. I promised my dad.

It's a good long-term goal and requires a lot of patience. The good thing is that once you get to the graduate level, many programs offer research/teaching assistantships that provide various levels of financial support. Sometimes it's just tuition waivers, sometimes it's a small salary.

I'm working on my Ph.D., so if you have any questions, I'm happy to offer advice!

[EricKei]

To take that and reverse it, I absolutely love this commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcoDV0dhWPA)That's so wonderful :D


In my personal experiences, I have never discounted someone's intelligence based upon their formal education. My riding instructor is one of the most sensible people I know and she did not go to college. My father is one of the most successful people I know. He's owned his own business since shortly after graduating high school. You don't need the degree to prove you're smart or to make something of yourself.

It has always been my theory that places use the "degree" thing as a filter to cut down on the number of apps received.

Does a tertiary level degree make you any more intelligent/smarter/a better worker/more competent at your job/ able to function in real life. No it does not.
...
Then there is the debate between formal education and "the school of hard knocks". I believe that someone who has to work their way up from the bottom will usually have a MUCH better understanding of the limits and abilities of those underneath them. Someone who waltzes in with a degree or higher can be utterly useless because they don't understand how things work in real life versus in theory. One of the old saws in my hometown is this: When somebody here asks you "What school did you go to?", they are NOT talking about your college/uni -- they mean what high school. Granted, that's as far as many of us got :rolleyes:, and I think part of it is the fact that many of our better schools are actually tougher than some colleges, especially the ones in this state (work that would have earned an A-B average at many high schools was maybe a high C at mine). As a result, many of our old-school, successful local businesses are ones which were started by people who have never even set foot upon a college campus.


Education =\= intelligence!
But seriously, to look DOWN on someone and discount their opinion based on their schooling? That's bullshit.
Agreed 100%, to both.

My roommate seems to hold the firm belief that this can never be true. He's a smart guy, I'll grant him that -- but I figured out how smart he was by talking to him, not by seeing what he was studying. The thing is, his view of intelligence is very simple: If you studied/have a degree in certain fields, then you are automatically smarter than anyone who has not studied that field. His example that he loves to use is "Physics". Three guesses what he studied in college. I will grant that smart people often pursue scientific degrees, but I would argue that this does NOT mean "science make you smart" (which seems to be his position), but rather, "being smart facilitates scientific study".

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I've encountered the "over-qualified" thing, too. I was recently in search of a retail job to supplement my current one, which has become increasingly hours-deficient. A friend at a big-box store helped to get my resume "noticed", but the HR people there never got back to me at all. When she was finally able to get an answer out of them, they were concerned about me "wanting too much money", even tho what I'm making (per hour) where I am now was within the range they offer to experienced people seeking jobs at that level, and the fact that she told them (at my request) that I would accept whatever pay rate I was offered. >_<

[jackfaire]

I am the only one of my current friends who has even been to college. The friends I made in college continued on while I dropped out. Sometimes I feel like I am stuck between two worlds. People who think college is a waste of time and people who went. It gets lonely.