Teachers & Children having sex

[IDrinkaRum]

Latest article on a teacher/student romance. This time, they went to Mexico to escape police scrutiny.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071103/ap_on_re_us/teacher_student_search

And my husband wonders why I want to home school our daughter.

[Greenday]

About a year ago, a math teacher at my high school was arrested for having sexual relations with a female student. Apparently, this started when she was 13 and he was teaching at the middle school. The guy has a wife and two kids. It's a shame to because he was a great teacher. He plead guilty so it still leaves some doubt in my mind because pleading guilty lowered the charges brought against him. I never would have expected that to happen with him.

[IDrinkaRum]

I think it was last month that there were articles about how many teacher with students sex acts are going unreported/under-reported/swept-under-the-carpet.

Also, the teachers (usually male) are just moved from one school district to another with no one the wiser.

Maybe I'm an over-worrying Mother, but my daughter is learning disabled (Autistic) and so trusting. I have nightmares about it. :(

[Boozy]

Maybe I'm an over-worrying Mother, but my daughter is learning disabled (Autistic) and so trusting. I have nightmares about it. :(

Here's my two cents. Take it, leave it, tell me to shut up and mind my own business if you'd like. ;) I'm just putting it out there:

I do think you are overreacting a bit. Statistically, your daughter has a far greater chance of getting into an accident on the school bus or playground than getting molested by a teacher. Yet every day, millions of parents put their children on the bus and send them out for recess.

The media jumps on stories of perverted teachers like a pack of rabid dogs on a piece of steak. I believe that you have a distorted view of how common this really is.

With that said, I don't wish to downplay the tragic emotional effects something like this can have on the victims. And I also agree that your daughter's disability could possibly make her a more appealing target.

Something else to think about: Are your nightmares about this perhaps a symptom of a more real concern about your daughter's education experience? Autistic kids don't always get the support they need to learn, and they are often ostracized by other kids. Perhaps there is a very logical reason to homeschool and your subconscious has just decided to focus on this.

[IDrinkaRum]

Boozy ... I know I'm over-reacting. That's just me. I've over protective of my daughter because of her condition, and that she's my daughter. :rolleyes: <--that's for me, not you!

I'm worried she's not ready to be mainstreamed. There's a public school for disabled children, but I'm not sure if she qualifies for it or if she's going to be put in kindergarten at the regular school.

I did read an article about service dogs for autistic children. I'm the only one in the family that wants to do this for her.

As for the Original Post, I've heard of teachers abusing students in the school I attended since I was in 6th grade. So for me, it's pretty common. And comes to no surprise. Plus, there's been plenty of incidences where the bus helper on special needs buses is male, and the male helper sexually abuses at least one of the disabled students. Maybe I should move out of the area. (Hopefully when the gov't builds the new work building, we'll be in Maryland and no longer in Northern VA).

[Greenday]

Also, the teachers (usually male) are just moved from one school district to another with no one the wiser.

They usually lose their teaching license and at that point, it's pretty damn hard to get one back. The main problem is it usually goes on unreported.

Honestly, I think the age of the student kinda matters too. I mean, when I was 17, there were teachers I would have hooked up with. But because I was 17, and not 18, it'd be sooooo terrible since I would have been a minor. I guess that goes more towards my attitude of age of consent in this country.

[IDrinkaRum]

That's true Greenday. What's the diff between 17 and 18?

However, I've noticed the children who "hook up" with their teachers are like 10, 11, 12, and 13 years old. They're definitely not old enough to consent to something that will change their lives forever. (Especially if they get their teacher pregnant).

I really wish there was a registry of teachers who have either had their license suspended or have been accused (but never charged) of sexual abuse that school systems can use while trying to hire people. But the teachers themselves would say that's against the law.

I just wish school systems took this abuse seriously.

[Seshat]

18 is the legal age at which a person is adult, in some parts of the world.

I blame the teacher in these situations (in child education). The teacher is the adult, and is responsible for not letting the relationship develop in that way until two things have occurred; the child has grown and matured enough to fully understand, and the relationship between the two is no longer one with the teacher/student power differential.

The situation is different in adult education, however.

[AFPheonix]

I can't imagine willingly wanting to hang out with a 13 year old boy, much less have sex with one....

[IDrinkaRum]

The teachers *are* adult. They should know better.

What I don't get is:

1. The media seems to celebrate the "love" between the teacher & student.

2. The parents aren't more up in arms about this, demanding the school system do something, anything.

3. Actually holding the teachers responsible for their actions. Taking away their livelyhood - making it darn near impossible for them to teach anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

[linguist]

I really wish there was a registry of teachers who have either had their license suspended or have been accused (but never charged) of sexual abuse that school systems can use while trying to hire people. But the teachers themselves would say that's against the law.


so you'd be in favor of registering someone who was accused, regardless of whether or not there was proof of an actual crime?
that just seems like a system ripe for abuse by angry students and/or parents.

[rahmota]

Well I'm against any relations with minors like that. Being in a position of responsibility just makes thigns worse.

Though Drinkrum said or have been accused (but never charged)

Umm I have to disagree with you on that one as that goes against the entire concept of innocent until proven guilty and like was said by linguist is a setup for abuse by disgruntled parents or peopel in general. Anytime you make a registry of people based on suspicion or accusation and not if they where convicted then you open a door to nothign but trouble and danger.

[IDrinkaRum]

Nonono, that's not what I mean. There are those teachers, who have been accused, the school systems have all the evidence, but they're not charged or the school doesn't do anything but let them go to another school system. Does that make sense? If not, I'll drop that from my original statement.

[Boozy]

Does that make sense? If not, I'll drop that from my original statement.

I think I understand you: You mean to say is that if there is ample evidence for charges to be brought, then they should do so instead of foisting the problem onto another school. Right?

I think we can all agree that simply being accused is not enough evidence to get fired or publicly vilified.

[Greenday]

And it all depends on the kind of evidence being presented too. A girl could say that she had sexual relations with a teacher. Her friends could say it was happening. Some people would call that overwhelming evidence as that is a lot of people saying it is happening. But until one piece of actual PHYSICAL evidence is brought around, I won't believe a damn thing. If alls it took to convict someone because a bunch of people say it was happening, even if they've never seen such an act occur, I'd bet most cases would be from people trying to just make cash instead of actually students who really had sexual relations with a teacher.

[IDrinkaRum]

@ Boozy: Yes, that's what I'm saying. The teacher from my 6th grade year left the school. A couple of years later, the charges were dropped because they didn't want traumatize the student and make her testify what happened to her. (Though right after that incident, we got the DARE program in my school and learned to say no to drugs and protect ourselves from "other things").

@ Greenday: Yes, I know hearsay is inadmissable in court or at least it's not something that is used exclusively in the collection of evidence for a case. But sometimes, a student may (I'm not saying they actually do), but they may brag about what's happening to them. And in the original story link, the student and teacher were texting/e-mailing/celll phone calling each other with their declarations of "love". :rolleyes: Though I just killed my own argument, huh? That's physical evidence, right?

[Greenday]

I would say that's definite proof of a relationship, but I don't know if that can be used to prove a sexual relationship is going on, unless one such message actually says so. Otherwise, it'll just prove they were having too close a relationship, which isn't entirely illegal.

[IDrinkaRum]

As I've said, I'm Overprotective Mommy. :D I don't believe a teacher, should be writing e-mails to my child that doesn't consist of: "Here is the homework" or "Here is some hints about answeirng such-and-such question" or "here's how to start out a paper about such-and-such". Or whatever.

But as I said, that's just me.

[Greenday]

We actually go out drinking with some of our teachers. But that's only the kids 21 years old or older. Us underage kids don't get to go to the bars. We also play paintball and dodgeball with teachers. Hell, I talk to one of my teachers about a lot of personal stuff. But I think that's more college orientated. The younger you get, the less personal relationships you should have with teachers.

[rahmota]

Idrinkrum: Ok I think I can see what you're talking about. Still there needs to be enough proof. At my son's school a few years back (before the eldest graduated) there was a female student who claimed that one of the teachers looked down her blouse. Now this was a cheerleader, who was failing his class. And if she failed the class she would not be allowed to be on the cheerleading team. This teacher was old school and could not be bought or intimidated to play along and let her slide.

So she cried to the board that he looked down her blouse. Everyone knew and respected this teacher and it got kinda ugly. Finally it came out that she just did it out of spite so she might be able to stay on the cheerleading squad. This is why I feel there needs to be a lot of evidence, firm hard evidence admissable in a court of law before anythign gets done. (oh and the teacher quit and got a better job with a private christian school where the last I talked to him he is much much happier and still quite repsected and liked)

As for what sort of relationship a student/teacher should have then that does depend on age. At 13 maybe talking about games or thigns related to the classes to try and motivate the student is cool. Either way about it the parent needs to pay attention and be involved in whats going on with their child.

Which is one thign that has me puzzled? Where was the parent of the kid? I mean we find out he was an illegal so I'm guessing his parents where too. So whats going on there? Some sort of blackmail with her having a pedofetish? Some sort of trade goign on with the parents? It seems like there is somethign going on that isnt exactly clear.

[IDrinkaRum]

Rahmota - you're right. I was wondering about that myself. However, I thought it was a kidnapping at first (until all the "relationship" stuff came out).

That's another thing about all the other students who have relationships with their teachers (like one girl who was being pimped by her coach) - where are the parents? Are they too trusting?

As for the girl who cried wolf, that does happen, unfortunately and it does give those who are being abused just enough pause to not report it, thereby allowing the teacher to continue whatever it is they are continuing.

[protege]

Idrinkrum: Ok I think I can see what you're talking about. Still there needs to be enough proof. At my son's school a few years back (before the eldest graduated) there was a female student who claimed that one of the teachers looked down her blouse.

That's already happened here--some girl claimed that her teacher had made "unwanted advances" towards her. In reality, she was pissed because she failed his class, and wanted to get even. After the truth came out, the teacher's career was destroyed...all because she didn't do her classwork. Did anything happen to her? Of course not.

[rahmota]

Protege: That sucks. Thats too bad the girl got away with wrecking a person's life for petty BS. At least in the case here the girl got some social backlash on her since the teacher was respected and liked at least by the parents and most of the students. One of the benefits of a small school compared to a big school where the teachers and students and their parents dont have as much intereaction and know each other.

Idrinkrum: I dont know if its too trusting, or too busy with other thigns going on or what the problem is. I do agree that the parents need to start getting more involved and taking the time to know whats going on with their kids. The price of failure for this is way too great.

This sort of situation is always going to be like tap dancing in a mine field. Ugly dangerous and disturbing to watch.

[Greenday]

Just the slightest mention of a teacher having an affair with a student, and their teaching career is over, regardless of whether an affair is happening or not. Schools don't want to hire a teacher who might have had a relationship with a student.

You'd actually be surprised though at how parents can be duped. The math teacher at my school that got caught managed a pool club during the summers and the girl he was having an affair with worked there. The parents would just think she was working. Why would they have reason to believe anything was different? A kid says they are going to a "friend's" house. If the parent isn't driving them there, they have no idea where the kid is really going. A kid could say they joined an after-school club and instead of going to the meetings, they could be hanging out with the teacher. While I believe most parents don't actually pay enough attention to what their kids are doing, even when parents try, it's not the easiest thing to do.

[rahmota]

Greenday: A kid says they are going to a "friend's" house. If the parent isn't driving them there, they have no idea where the kid is really going
Maybe we're running into that urban vs rural thign again. Out here if a parent, older sibling or olther designated relative, doesnt take their 13 year old to their friend's house or school activity then the kid doesnt go.

For example We live 6 miles from the school the kids go to. Kids at the far end of the district can live up to 12-15 miles from the school. The closest one of my children's friends lives 1/4 mile away. And I still walk them there for a visit so I know they are going there. Not to mention the sheer fact that out in the country there are not that many places to really go where it wouldnt be noticed that the teacher and student are together and to get to the nearest big city is a 45 minute drive.

Now in town yeah I can see (and have discussed with the parents of other students) that their kid said they went one place and actually went another. But they usually get quite punished around here if its found out. So I think a lot of it is the attitude of the parents or their lifestyle choices as in putting work and keeping up with the jonses and stuff ahead of their family instead of keeping an involved life with their family.