It's my body dammit!

[Luna]

I'm not starting an abortion thread. I would like to discuss birth control, pros and cons of - problems with and why on earth doctors won't let women get their tubes tied. I would like to discuss why women are forced to be lab rats for drug companies.

I'm having serious issues on the generic of Seasonale. It is nice to have your "friend" once every 4 months, which is the main reason why I started using it and not the usual once every month pill. But then my insurance raised the copay and it went from $60 every 3 months to $120. I couldn't pay that. The generic is only $30 for 3 months. For the past 3 years I've been pretty miserable and have gained a LOT of weight. I chalked this up to home and family problems, family deaths, losing friends, job changes and everything else. But my life is somewhat stable now and I've been doing research - and I've determined it must be this drug.

I'm going back to the OBGYN next Monday b/c they screwed up my pap smear and they have to do it all over again. I am going to ask to have my tubes tied so I don't have to take any birth control anymore. When I mentioned this to my MIL this afternoon - she immediately barked out: "You're TOO YOUNG!"

It's my body. I will be 32 years old in February. By definition at hospitals I've gone to - my eggs are useless to be donated and despite my good intentions of wanting to donate, I was turned away as if I were offering burnt bacon to them. So my eggs aren't good enough to be given to women who desperately want children, but theses "rotten eggs" are okay if I conceive??

What other choices are women given? Okay, let's say married women like me. Sure there are condoms, which takes away all feeling for hubby and leaves wife with reactions to the latex. There's the pill - which has emotional and physically messed me up not to mention cost me a LOT of money through the years. Or, an easy surgery which no one will let me do.

I hate to sound so tin foil hat here, but it feels like the doctors are in cahoots with the drug companies to make as much money off of me as possible. Letting me have this simple surgery would cut off that guaranteed money. If I were to become pregnant - that's even more guaranteed money for the doctors. Do I sound paranoid? How old is old enough? Must I dye my hair gray and purchase a walker before someone will do this for me? I'm old enough to be married, rent, lease a car, buy a car, pay taxes, and work and have children - but I'm NOT old enough to decide that I don't want to ever have children? How is that?

Please, I don't want this to turn into a child-free debate. I love my nephew and niece. They are precious to me in ways I can't even describe. They enable me to feel again, something I didn't think I could do anymore.

My point is that you'd think that women by now would have revolted and demanded birth control that doesn't have so many side effects. I can't be the only one, can I?

Thoughts? Experiences?

[Greenday]

I don't want kids myself. Honestly, I just cannot stand lil kids that run around and annoy the hell out of everyone. The thought of having to get up all night, then spend my entire day working in a crime lab with no sleep does not sound appetizing. But because I'm only nearly 20 years old, doctors would laugh at me if I suggested getting snipped. Yea, it's a decently permanent decision, but they aren't the ones living with it, I am. So who are they to tell me I'd regret it? I mean, let's say in 10 years I REALLY don't want kids. Obviously I won't regret it. Will they still tell me I'll regret it even when it's obvious I won't?

[TennesseeWhiskey]

Well, the long and short of it is there are some dumbasses out there who screwed it up for the rest of us. For some reason, they didn't think permanent was PERMANENT, and whenever the child they had before their tubes tied died, they gave up starter hubby for hubby # 2, they threw immortal fits about "not being able to give him a baybee", so a lot of doctors are gun shy about tying tubes, especially for those of us who haven't had a child, because, "You'll change your mind".

Have you checked on essure? It's permanent birth control too, but a bit different than a tubal. I've read up on it, and, it sounds like it's not quite as invasive, and the recovery is a bit easier, from what I've read.

I'm 37, and, my doc has pretty much told me, okay, let me know. I just need to wait til after the hellidays are over. I go in for my annual lube and filter change (Pap smear, but, hey, I gotta make fun of it) in a couple weeks, so I'll see what I can't line up. I think, after all these years when they do the "do you have children" or "is it possible for you to be pregnant" questions at the sign in at the doctor's complex, getting "Oh HELL no!" for answer #1 and " I sure better not be, or CVS pharmacy's gonna have some 'splainin' to do, Lucy", delivered with a smile, I think they done figured out, Whiskey ain't mommy material to anyone other than her cat. That, and the fact that if I did screw up and couldn't have a kid, it's name would be "Dammitahdonetoleyew" (ok, say out loud with a thick Southern drawl, it'll make sense) :)

[Seshat]

I investigated Essure. Talked to a few doctors. One such conversation had a section like this:

"You understand that it's permanent?"
"Yes. That's why I want it."
"Oh. Well. I think maybe you should go away and think about it a bit more."

Basically, wanting it because it's permanent upset the doctor and he didn't want to give me the Essure treatment! :eek:


It's my body. I don't trust hormonal birth control because my hormones are totally screwed up anyway - and I don't like the idea of intentionally screwing up hormones. My weight changes (see hormonal screwups) too frequently for the diaphragm or the cap to be reliable.

All I'm left with (that's in my control) is condoms, IUDs and permanent methods, and doctors refuse to use the permanent methods on women who haven't had children yet. Fortunately, I don't have a retrovert uterus, so I can use an IUD. Otherwise I'd be left with condoms or nothing.

It really annoys me.

[AFPheonix]

If Quasense isn't cutting the mustard for you, check with your insurance to see if having the doctor write "brand medically necessary" will drop your copay down to a more reasonable level. Also, maybe have them price out Yaz or Yasmin, too, if you haven't tried those. There's another BC that's dispensed like Seasonale, called Seasonique, that you also may price out and check with your doctor about. There's plenty of low dose hormone BC's out there that can be taken continuously so as to avoid your period.

TennesseeWhiskey has it just right that there are idiots out there who are sue happy enough that they keep other people from getting the elective procedures that they want. Doctors are just covering their asses since they've seen enough women come around who were adamant that they didn't want kids, and then pulled a 180. They are safer just having their patients on a chemical birth control than performing a permanent one.

As for me, I adore the birth control that I'm on now. I started on Depo, and while the no period thing was great, the being constantly hungry, totally losing my sex drive, and spotting when it got close to a booster shot wasn't so cool. I switched to the patch, and I don't get zits, I don't cramp or bleed too heavily when it's period time, and I like doin' the nasty again. I don't want to be permanently sterilized, because I'm still on the fence about having a child. I have no maternal drive at this point, but who knows, maybe a few years down the line I'll get there. So until then, I'll keep my options open.

[Boozy]

Possibly TMI ahead (which is really unlike me):

Birth control hormones, even in low doses, absolutely cripple me with migraines. My husband and I use the observational method of natural family planning (NFP). It has a remarkably high success rate (about 98%) for women with regular cycles who use the method correctly.

It is NOT the calendar rhythm method; I take my basal body temperature once a day among a few other things (which I will not get into here :) ). Paying attention to your body eventually becomes second-nature; I can say with virtual certainty the day I ovulate.

NFP is now the official recommended method by the Catholic Church. I personally don't recommend it to people who are a) incapable or unwilling to check themselves over every single day and chart their findings, and b) abstain from sex when your body is telling you its fertile.

Frankly, I'd prefer the pill, but this is a decent alternative for me. As a bonus, when my husband and I are ready to have children, I'll know exactly the best day to start. :D

[linguist]

have you ever heard of ladycomp (http://http://www.ladycomp.com/)? it works on the same premise as the nfp boozy was talking about, but it keeps track of your cycle for you and removes the guesswork, dividing the days in your cycle into green (nonfertile, safe for sex without precaution), yellow (possibly fertile, use a backup method) and red (almost certainly fertile, sex should be avoided). i can't speak from personal experience (though my wife and i are considering giving it a try, as hormonal birth control did a number on her, too), but a friend of mine uses it and swears by it. it's never steered her wrong. in fact, when she and her husband did decide to have kids, they conceived the first time they had unprotected sex on a red day.

you have to order it from overseas, and it is a bit pricey--415 euros, a little over $600 at current exchange rates--but it's a one-time expense vs. the continuing expense of other forms of birth control (surgery excluded, of course). it seems well worth it to me.

[Brede]

I'm on the implant, and it can mess you around something chronic. I'm on it as it's the only contraceptive that Im not allergic to, and it's great if you are in a long term relationship and no longer want to take the pill.

However, my side effects have been very, very, VERY irregular periods. ANd if you are sensitive to hormonal medication, it would not be a good option.

[Seshat]

I wouldn't personally trust such a tracking method, because my body is so screwed up. But for those with regular cycles and healthy bodies, it should work well. I applaud you.

[NightAngel]

Okay, so delving into what could be considered TMI...

My tubes are tied and have been for 7 years now. The plus side is my hubby and I enjoy a sex life free of worry about more babies and not having to worry about condoms, did I take my pill, etc, etc.

The DOWN SIDE is pretty bad though.
You are proposing a very invasive surgery on your body. There is nothing "simple" about it.

The only reason I had it done was because I HAD to have a C-Section and since they were going to be in there anyway I figured they may as well go ahead and do it. If I hadn't my hubby was going to have a Vasectomy- we had it all set up. I know some men scoff at the idea but it's SO MUCH EASIER for men than women. It's not even considered a major surgery for them and they can go back to work the same day even!

Tubal is painful to recover from AND there are side effects that the doctors don't really warn you about. Now, this is all stuff that is pretty universal amoung myself and all the women I know who have had this done so I'm not just talking out my ears. If you delve into some deep research on the subject you'll discover Tubal isn't always the best option either.

Your body will CHANGE after you have the surgery. You may drastically gain or lose weight, your hormonal balance will not be... balanced and you will feel different.
My body has been trying to decide if it wants to go into Menopause or not ever since. My hubby insists that I'm in Menopause and have been ever since the surgery.

I'm having a Hot Flash right now. I've been having them for about a week- they suck! They'll go away after awhile- I know, this isn't the first time since the surgery I've been in "Menopause".
Now that I'm 7 years out from it I can tell you that it does get easier and your body eventually levels out SOME but it's never the same again.

ALSO your periods may get MUCH heavier and your cramps may get MUCH worse.
The voice of experience talking here.

Read up on Tubal Ligation Syndrome.
It's VERY REAL- believe me!!!

Have your hubby get a Vasectomy instead. Trust me on this.

[Seshat]

That's very useful information, NightAngel, and I'm glad you shared it.

I have PCOS - I experience many of the menopausal symptoms, while simultaneously dealing with the ickier side of menstruation. You have my sympathy and understanding regarding hot flushes!

[NightAngel]

You're welcome and thanks for the sympathy. *passes chocolate*

I'd only recommend TL if, like me, they're going in there anyway and, unlike me, the person is fully aware of what can happen and wants it anyway. If I had known what the aftermath was going to be like my hubby would've still had the Vasectomy.

Overall, unless it's a life saving proceedure, I don't think you should allow yourself to be opened up and mucked about in.

Although it has been the source of a running (gross) joke between my hubby and I. He was with me when I had the surgery so now we say that he's the only one allowed to 'hate my guts' because he's the only one who's seen them. LOL :D

[Seshat]

An ultrasound tech once told me I have 'a very pretty uterus'. Beauty is not skin deep! :D

(accepts chocolate and offers evening primrose oil capsules)

[Amethyst Hunter]

I also find it disgusting that a man can get Viagra covered by insurance, no questions asked, while most insurances refuse to puke up one cent for women's birth control or sterilization procedures. Gender equality, my ass, there is.

I do agree that there is a definite racket going on what with doctors pushing unnecessary drugs/tests/etc. at people. I also think that there is a similar thing going on with the current child-centric culture in this country (United States). Increasing tax credits for the more kids that people have (Not that I'm against helping genuinely needy people, but why can't people who are caretakers for, say, their other relatives like elderly parents get tax breaks?). Magazines blaring "OMG Your Fertility Is Going To Expire RIGHTNOW!!" and trumpeting the latest celebrity-who-likely-shouldn't-be-having-kids-for-any-number-of-valid-reasons that got knocked up. The frightening and very real suppression of *correct* and factual information about scientific- and healthcare-related matters thanks to the assministration that's running this country (into the ground) while simultaneously refusing to do a damn thing to make it any easier for all those kids they want born (for their Forever War that they've started).

Add in all those stereotypical fairytale cultural images of the Perfect American Life complete with white picket fence and 2.5 Perfect kids with the Perfect Spouse that are continually handed down, even as research has proven that that life is *not* all it's cracked up to be, and was never nearly as wonderful as the nostalgics who want the 1950s-style of When Women Knew Their Place to come back claim it was - and you have a recipe that breeds (no pun intended) a serious load of problems.

There's also the general reluctance to reform the adoption system so that people who do want kids, but for whatever health reason can't physically have them via natural means, can adopt without 1) having to wade through a shitload of unnecessary red tape and expense (Mind you, there NEEDS to be a good stopgap in place so that kids don't get placed with abusive homes), and 2) engaging in insanely expensive and painful fertility treatments that risk opening up a whole 'nother can of worms.

I honestly think that a good portion of this 'let's-string-women-along' mentality stems from socially-acceptable and sanctioned sexism. Much of it is so ingrained from childhood that many people aren't even aware of it, and that's partly why it persists.

Myself, I will be starting the Yaz pill soon because of unresolved health issues, and I really hope it works. I do very much want to get sterilized someday, either through tubal or Essure, both because I'm sure that I don't ever want kids and for personal peace of mind. I'm not active, but there is always the threat of assault - and I *would* have an abortion in that case if I had to literally throw myself down a flight of stairs to do it. Rather than wind up in that sort of extreme, I see sterilization as a precautionary measure - ounce of prevention versus pound of cure and all that.

[NightAngel]

An ultrasound tech once told me I have 'a very pretty uterus'.

Yeah, doctors everywhere get excited about my Uterus because it's bicornuate.
Isn't it great having cool insides? :D

[Seshat]

Mine is not only cool, but decorated. It's good to know my IUD is perfectly placed. (A later ultrasound tech told me that.)

Amethyst Hunter: I agree with most of what you said, and my minor disagreements are too minor to really be bothered with.

As for your contraception: if you find that hormonal methods don't suit you, an IUD (depending on type) lasts ten years. Two IUDs will take me past my predicted menopause date.

[AFPheonix]

I also find it disgusting that a man can get Viagra covered by insurance, no questions asked, while most insurances refuse to puke up one cent for women's birth control or sterilization procedures. Gender equality, my ass, there is.



I'd love to know what insurance covers viagra and other ED drugs regularly, no questions asked. I rarely see it covered, and we dispense quite a bit of viagra, levitra, and cialis, and the occasional fill of revatio.
Usually it's only covered after a doctor goes through the prior authorization process, and usually only for guys who are unable to perform due to special circumstance, which rules out most of the diabetics and heart disease peeps.

Maybe it's just my state, (Oregon requires companies by law to cover birth control) but most plans WILL cover birth control to a degree. I see few these days that don't, typically out of state plans. Even those very often will cover certain types of BC and the patient and doctor didn't do a good job researching what would and wouldn't be covered under the patient's plan.
That being said, I'm a little miffled with my own plan these days because they switched carriers and now my preferred prescription is a tier 3 med and is $45 per month, retail. Bleah. They'd probably cover an oral version better, but I know me and my track record for taking stuff by mouth on time, and it ain't that great.

[blas87]

On the other hand, do men get hassled as often as women when they want to be snipped? Do the doctors give them the runaround or try to tell them not to? How old does a man have to be to have that done?

EDIT: You guys must have some really sucky insurance because my Depo shot is 100% covered. I don't pay a penny. I can't speak for the Pill or other forms of BC, but the shot is definetly free on my policy.

[AFPheonix]

Mine is only available as brand, so that's probably why they're being extra stinky about it.
As for the Seasonale, when there's a generic available for a med, but a patient requests the brand, they almost always pay a higher copay. Sometimes the copay goes down if the doctor indicates the brand is medically necessary, though.

[Luna]

The biggest reason I started birth control was to control my periods. They were intense, left me crying in bed for days and bled so heavy one doctor debated running me to emergency. They also showed up when they wanted with no warning. Sometimes twice a year. Sometimes twice a month.

I just never stopped taking them.

Thanks so much for the info everyone. I truly appreciate it.

[MadMike]

On the other hand, do men get hassled as often as women when they want to be snipped?

They didn't with me. Just gave me something to read, which reminded me it was permanent, and that while it's reversable, reversing isn't always successful. Then the doctor went over the same things. Once I indicated that I was sure I wanted to have it done, there were no more questions, warnings, or disclaimers, except several reminders that I wouldn't be sterile until about two months afterwards.

I've heard that that's the way it is -- most doctors don't have a problem with sterilizing a man at any age or regardless of whether he's fathered children, but very few will do a woman under a certain age, and especially if she's never given birth.

[Seshat]

but very few will do a woman under a certain age, and especially if she's never given birth.

And by the time we're 'old enough', those of us for whom an IUD is effective are only one or two IUDs away from menopause anyway. Which is why I'm using one of those. (Probably two over my lifetime - this one'll be due for renewal before I'm naturally sterile.)

It's so FRUSTRATING to be treated like an emotional infant!

[NightAngel]

I think there are a couple of factors that go into them not hassling men as much as women.

First:
As previously stated- the proceedure for a woman is actually a major surgery.
It's not for a man.

Second:
Women's hormones can change drastically and turn on the Biological Mommy Clock at any time. Trust me on this. Generally speaking men don't go through that. They may want kids but it's not the same.

[Seshat]

Women's hormones can change drastically and turn on the Biological Mommy Clock at any time. Trust me on this.

When I was diagnosed with PCOS, I went all Mommy Clock. But I sat down, thought things through, and realised that what I actually wanted was the choice. PCOS was (potentially) denying me the choice of whether to have children or not.

Once I recognised that, I spent some time mulling over the choice once-and-for-all. And decided to get sterilised. I already might have been, but this way I'd be sure, and it'd be my own decision.

Only I discovered that the doctors ruled that decision.

And I stepped back again, thought about how poorly my body really heals, and got an IUD instead. Copper-T, good for ten years. Once this one's up, I'll get another, and I'll probably be past menopause when that one's ready to be removed.



The doctor who inserted it was a Family Planning doctor, chosen because she's an IUD insertion expert. She warned me that being a nullipara (never any children), my cervix might be too tight for the insertion. (It wasn't.) For those who are considering it, that is an issue.


Below, I ended up summarising the info I have on IUDs. I may as well leave it in - a significant subset of people reading this thread will probably appreciate knowing more about one of their choices.
However, if it's going to bore you, skim to the next post. :)

* If you have a retrovert or a bicornate uterus, or one with any other anatomical abnormality, the doctor may be unwilling to insert it. Let them say no, ask for a referral to someone more skilled, but don't try to push a doctor who's unwilling to insert an IUD. A bad insertion can perforate your uterine wall, and then you've got major problems. Go to whichever doctor in your area is most used to inserting IUDs. Usually that'll be a Family Planning/Planned Parenthood/etc doctor. Our FP had two IUD specialists, most of what they did was IUD consultations, IUD pap smears, and insertions and removals.

* There is a small risk of problems in the insertion or removal, as I implied in the last paragraph. The risk is proportional to the skill of the doctor - I strongly recommend Family Planning/Planned Parenthood/etc. Any clinic where there are doctors whose primary business is contraception, and which may even have IUD specialists (our local one does).

* If your sex life isn't in a closed-circle (you and one other, or a triad or quad or other group that all only has sex with each other), an IUD is a risky choice. There is a string which hangs outside the cervix, to allow removal, and that string theoretically can be a passage for disease to enter the uterus. The Dalkon Shield had a particular type of string that did that, and became notorious for it. Modern IUDs have a different type of string and (as far as I've been able to research) the current strings don't let disease travel to the uterus. But doctors will be much, much happier to fit an IUD for someone in a monogamous pairing.
Personally, I'd say that a trio or quad who have a strong commitment to staying 'clean', don't stray outside the group, and have all been tested is just as safe as a married couple, and much safer than a married couple where one or both 'wander'.

* If you have a copper allergy, don't use the copper T. If you react poorly to hormones, think carefully about risking the Mirena (hormonal) IUD. The doctor told me the Mirena hormones stay in the uterine area, but it's something to consider. Of course, an IUD is extremely reversible, so it's a (comparatively) low-risk and low-cost thing to try.

* Your pap smears will need to be taken by someone who can do pap smears with an IUD inserted. If the Family Planning/Planned Parenthood/whatever you go to is convenient, use them. They'll almost certainly have a suitable doctor on staff.

* You (or your sex partner) are asked to check the strings every so often. Just to make sure they're there, and not noticeably longer or shorter than usual.

* Insertion hurts. I presume removal does, too. I described it as my cervix complaining that nothing that big is supposed to go through it THAT way. It ached for the rest of the day, and was sort of uncomfortable the day after. But it's a pain I can bear once every ten years or so.

* Note that 'that big' is actually very, very small. The hollow tube they insert it through is thinner than a drinking straw. The IUD itself is tiny! About the size of a small dangly earring. It's just that the cervix is used to cell-sized things going upwards, not drinking-straw sized.
Hm. I wonder if I could buy a couple of IUDs to use for jewelry? :p

* Some people with IUDs report that their periods change. Some say heavier, some say lighter. I have PCOS - my periods are stuffed up anyway - so I just shrug my shoulders and say 'I dunno'.

* Some people are never happy with their IUD: fortunately, it's completely removable. Unless the insertion or removal has gone wrong, you should return completely to normal after the removal. Use a skilled doctor.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I've never wanted kids; I never even played with dolls as a child. When I walk past a baby, I don't go all googoo eyes like some of my friends do, I just think "Look, a baby." I am 28 years old and neither me or my boyf want kids; yet, I can't get my tubes tied and won't til I am at least 35. I might have to strong arm my boyf into getting the snip instead of going thru all that hassle.

I originally, like Luna, went on the pill cuz of my terrible periods and PMS. My periods were irregular, horribly heavy; ie, I had to change the pads every couple of hours and I also got cramps, stomach ache and headaches so bad, I would end up in bed ill for days at a time. My PMS resulted in cramps, headaches and monster mood swings; turning me into the bastard child of Godzilla then suddenly swinging to crying floods of tears and being so miserable I wanted to die. The pill saved me from all that and I've taken it ever since; even if my tubes were tied, I'd still have to take it so I didn't go back to those days.

[Greenday]

I'm sure if I asked my regular doctor about getting snipped, he'd laugh at me. I just don't like kids. I like my lil cousins, and that's about it. I love my sleep. LOVE it. If I have to get up every couple of hours throughout the night, then go spend 8+ hours in the lab, I'll never make it. But being only 19 (20 in March), I doubt too many doctors would want to do me a favor and snip me.

[NightAngel]

When I was diagnosed with PCOS, I went all Mommy Clock.

I think yours was kind of different than what I mean.
What I mean is when your body tells you that you REALLY want to be pregnant.
I mean REALLY want it- it can be driving and all you can think about almost. I can't really describe it but if it ever happens you'll definately know.

That's just nature's way of keeping the species going- the drive to procreate.

[Seshat]

Hrm. I'm 38, and that's never happened to me. I'm not doubting you! I'm just curious. I wonder what percentage of the population gets that, and what percentage doesn't - and what controls it?

[NightAngel]

I am positive it's hormones, but then, I'm not a doctor. I was trying to Google something up but apparently I'm not wording it right. :rolleyes:

Think about it though- our hormones can make us happy, sad, cranky, crave foods, crave or despise sex, etc.

[Seshat]

And my hormones are seriously screwed up in a number of ways. It makes a kind of sense.

[Fawn]

I've never wanted kids. When I was 18 I decided that I'd never have kids and my mind hasn't changed since (I'm 22 now). A lot of old friends have had kids at my age and I all I can think of is their stupidity. But, thats just me.

My family (on both sides) has a history of mental illness and I am not excluded from this fact. I have a severe Anxiety disorder, Panic Disorder and Agoraphobia. So, theres a good 75+% chance that any child I have will have some sort of mental illness. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Some TMI...
Was on birthcontrol, till I switched medications for my Anxiety. I had to stop it because it actually made my anxiety worse. Now I'm forced to rely on Condoms only, which pisses me off because I want more then that for protection. I've asked about other options and my best choice would be an IUD but my doctor thinks it might not be possible because I haven't had children and it might be to tight. I dunno. Will have to see what happens in the future.

[Seshat]

I've never had children, and have a 'perfectly placed' IUD, according to the last person who did an ultrasound on me there.

Look for the top two or three IUD-placing experts in your area. The chances are very good that at least one of them works for the local planned parenthood or family planning type of clinic. Those people will have the best chance for getting an IUD into you, or for giving you a real assessment of your chances.

I'm pretty sure I've answered most 'what was it like getting your IUD done' questions in this thread already, so review the thread and feel free to ask anything else you want to know - I'm so happy with mine that I'm quite willing to help other people decide if it's right for them.

[horror]

When I was 17 I asked that for my 18th birthday if I could get my tubes tied.
My mother said no, not because she doubted me or my choices (even though looking back, 17 is, in my opinion, far too young to be making choices like that. Though at that age you know everything, so I was "sure") but because she knew how I would be treated by doctors if I actually went through with it.

My mother had hers tied because her third pregnancy was deemed too much of a risk for her and the fetus, mostly due to a heart condition that made birth very difficult for her.
She chose to end the pregnancy because she couldn't risk not surviving labour and leaving two babies mother-less. When she decided to end the pregnancy she also wanted her tubes tied.

She was forced to see the hospital psychologist and made to jump through all the hoops all women are when they make this desicion.
Well, being my mother, she eventually told the doctor to cut the bullshit and tie her fucking tubes or she'd be doing it herself in the hallway.
I would imagine he eventually did it out of fear. :P

Personally I'm undecided on the whole kids thing, which is a far cry from my demand to have my tubes tied at 18.
I eventually want a baby, but I don't want a teenager.
I would eventually like to get pregnant, but I don't want to give birth.
You know, I think I would be better off just getting a puppy.

[Seshat]

I believe that to want a child, you have to want to share your life with an unknown person of unknown personality, temperament and interests, at all ages.

You have to want a baby, a toddler (terrible twos!), a child, a teenager, a young adult, a middle-aged adult. You can skip wanting to share their old age.

If that's not what you want, if you just want specific stages, you can consider short-term fostering. It's still a huge commitment, and most of the children that come to you that way will have serious problems. But it's an important task and you can have a huge positive impact on many children's lives.

Or you can go into a big brother/big sister program, or teach, or go into childcare, or pediatric nursing. There are many ways to have children in your life other than having your own, and in some of those ways you can share your life with an endless string of children of the age that you find most appealing.


But if you don't want to take a baby with a budding personality of their own, and help them become a competent, happy and healthy adult* - then it's probably best not to have your own child.

* provided, of course, they don't have some sort of disability. Another question for budding parents: would you still love and care for your baby if he/she is born with or acquires a disability?

[Kelly Lynne]

The doctor who inserted it was a Family Planning doctor, chosen because she's an IUD insertion expert. She warned me that being a nullipara (never any children), my cervix might be too tight for the insertion. (It wasn't.) For those who are considering it, that is an issue.


Yep. For me it was. The doctor tried to get it in, and it was excruciatingly painful, but it just would not work. So, now I'm on the ring. We'll see how that works. I'm not thrilled so far, but I know that there's an "adjustment" period with any new hormonal birth control.

Your doctor is a good one--I didn't get that warning from mine. (She also asked during the procedure "How old are you?" and "Have you had children?" Um...my feet are already in the stirrups...shouldn't you have read my chart before now??)

[DexX]

Probably going to be some serious TMI in here, but I have always been quite frank when talking about sexual stuff. You have been warned! :)

My wife and I did very well early in our relationship using a kind of adapted Billings Method. What really helped was that both of us are very pheromone-sensitive, so I could smell and taste her cycle, especially during sex, but even from just a kiss or a cuddle. She had a very noticeable cycle in how she smelled, and I always knew her period was coming before she did, up to a week before.

TMI time... Let's talk vaginal mucus! Yay! This is one of the clearest indicators for a sexually active couple. Just after and before menstruation, the mucus is thick and blobby and somewhat opaque and milky-looking, while during the fertile period it is very thin and clear and will stretch an amazingly long way between your fingertips (for the guys - just think of pre-cum, fertile mucus is pretty much indistinguishable from it). Cycle-end mucus won't stretch into long thin strings. There is also a gradual change from one state to the other and back, so when the thick mucus is starting to thin out and become clearer and more stretchy, you know the fertile period is on its way, just as you know the menstrual period is coming when it starts getting thick and gluggy again.

We had mostly unprotected sex for several years and never had a "mishap". We both really hate condoms, but if we really couldn't control ourselves during the fertile period (and seriously, a girl smells and tastes amazingly good during the fertile period as the body sends out chemical signals saying "I'm ovulating! Impregnate me!") we'd put up with it and use a condom.

She ended up having to go on the pill for hormonal troubles (major ones - six months with no period, then constant bleeding for three months) so it all became academic (and the pill changed her sexual smells and tastes a little bit, too). Later she was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome, and switched to medication for that and went off the pill again. The PCOS made her infertile, and by that stage we didn't mind the idea of kids, so we stopped trying to avoid pregnancy.

Two years ago she had an ectopic pregnancy that damned near killed her thanks to a misdiagnosis by our regular GP. She'd probably been bleeding into her abdomen for several days by the time she was operated on, and 24 hours more probably would have killed her. She's been told not to get pregnant until her body has had time to heal, so she's back on the pill again. The regular level-dose pill was making her depresed, so she's switched to Yasmin and is loving it - milder PMT, no depression, and she's losing weight again.

I also have a few female friends who swear by Implanon, especially those who don't end up having a period for a year!

I suppose the point of my long rambling story is that different solutions suit different people at different times of their lives, and there are many perfectly good options, be they hormonal, barrier, or timed/observational.

[Dreamstalker]

She ended up having to go on the pill for hormonal troubles (major ones - six months with no period, then constant bleeding for three months)
That's why I'm on the pill (except it was pretty much the reverse of a regular cycle: no period for one week out of four. I'm amazed I didn't develop anemia from that).

The ex kept trying to get me to go off the pill because "all those hormones can't be good for you"...guess what, those hormones are ensuring I'm able to function more or less normally, you're not my gyno kthx (my reply was something along the lines of "you bleed three weeks out of four and then tell me you wouldn't take a solution").

There's some whacko group here (might also be nationwide; I remember reading something about a similar cadre in NM) that wants to ban all forms of contraception, apparently regardless of the reason for needing it.

[Amethyst Hunter]

There's some whacko group here (might also be nationwide; I remember reading something about a similar cadre in NM) that wants to ban all forms of contraception, apparently regardless of the reason for needing it.

Perhaps you may be thinking of Pharmacists For Life? Definitely anti-choice and anti-birth control - they believe they should have the right to refuse to fill all BC prescriptions, and in some extreme cases members have been known to *take away* the customer's prescription and refuse to give it back (some even tore it up right in front of the customer!).

I'm on the pill for messed-up cycle reasons as well. Nobody better ever fuck with me on that, or heads will roll. Literally.

[AFPheonix]

Oh shit. The bitching any pharmacist would get from me if they pulled that. They'd get to work by themselves if they wanted to behave like a baby.

We have one floater pharmacist who's pretty conservative. She got all stinky-poop-eye on some poor guy last week because he was getting some insulin syringes but forgot what size he normally got, since his wife typically handles it for him. Rather than just hook him up with some, she accused him of being a drug user and wouldn't sell to him.

Jesus, even if he was going to go shoot up, what do we care? At least they're using responsibly and getting fresh needles to use. There was also one pharmacist at another store nearby in our chain who wouldn't dispense Plan B, but rather than have the cojones to go talk to the customer herself, she'd send the tech to go tell the customer they couldn't get it. She's also damned lucky she's never worked with me, because I don't do people's dirty work for them. If you're going to have the conviction, you get to face the abuse and consequences for it, not me.

[Dreamstalker]

Yup, it likely was Pharmacists for Life (for some reason they were on headline news a few weeks ago, but it is an election year so...)
in some extreme cases members have been known to *take away* the customer's prescription and refuse to give it back (some even tore it up right in front of the customer!).

How would the pharmacist in question still be licensed after a stunt like that?! Those nutjobs have no business secondguessing the doc.

*wonders if one day we'll have to "prove" to a disinterested party that we need it...wouldn't that be a huge HIPPA violation?*

Luckily I get my scrip filled at the hospital pharmacy so don't have to deal with stuff like that.

Re: the insulin needles. My mom usually gets them for the cat, but if she can't do it she gives me one of the plastic wrappers to refer to. I've never had a problem getting them; you used to need a prescription here, but not anymore. Interesting that the box is always double-bagged though...it's not heavy at all.

[AFPheonix]

We second guess doctors all the time. Hell, yesterday we kept some moron doc from OD'ing a young girl on a codeine cough syrup. Ripping up someone's script is a whole 'nuther ball game though, and I certainly hope the board of pharmacy in that guy's state got an earful about it, as well as the chain the pharmacist works for, provided he wasn't an independent.

I sincerely doubt you'll need to tell the pharmacy what your diagnosis is to get your script, although if we knew it wouldn't really be a HIPPA violation necessarily since we are also health care professionals, regardless of whether people see us as such. (Usually we're seen as glorified fast food workers, until they're sick and want to talk to the pharmacist instead of their doctor).

Frankly, in the future it probably would not be a bad idea for doctors to work more closely with pharmacists while prescribing, especially since pharmacy schools have retired the bachelor's of pharmacy degree (RPh) and instead are teaching the more intensive doctorate of pharmacy degree (PharmD). For people who very often get stuck working in a bloody drug store, pharmacists are absolute experts on pharmacology, far more so than any doctor who are often swayed by the legions of drug reps who truck on through their office and give them nice things.

[Amethyst Hunter]

How would the pharmacist in question still be licensed after a stunt like that?! Those nutjobs have no business secondguessing the doc.

*wonders if one day we'll have to "prove" to a disinterested party that we need it...wouldn't that be a huge HIPPA violation?*


Actually, Dominionists have been making some scarily serious inroads into government for a good 30+ years now for this express purpose of controlling who can get what resources and who is allowed to do this and that. It's only in the past ten years or so that you've begun to hear more about them (mostly because of the crap this current assministration - which is *heavily* Dommie-stacked - has pulled; Dominionists prefer to operate en masse, in stealth because that allows them to change laws and sneak in things like "Intelligent Design" past the general public's nose, when it's too late to stop it).

They are EXTREMELY anti-woman to the point where they believe a man - any man - has Biblical authority over all females and that women should be mandated to stay at home doing nothing more than raising children (preferably lots and lots - google the 'Quiverful' movement and prepare to be sickened), cleaning house and catering to hubby's every whim. Which is, however repulsive one may find it, not bad in and of itself ONLY IF IT IS A CHOICE MADE BY THE WOMAN IN QUESTION and is not imposed in any way upon her (and that includes mental manipulation). They have been on a systematic campaign to severely restrict if not eliminate all access to birth control and abortion. Even if you personally believe the latter is a sin, it makes absolutely no sense to deny the former...unless, of course, you believe that women were put here to serve as incubators for "God's Army."

Not even suffering from a chronic infirmity like PCOS or endometriosis would be enough: to a Dominionist, *all* birth control is automatically "bad" because it supposedly 1) "denies God's will" by preventing pregnancy and encouraging women to have sex (they believe women should only have sex when married, and only for the express purpose of breeding as many children as possible), and 2) "causes abortion" (a flat-out lie that ANY legitimate doctor will tell you doesn't happen) and therefore, it must be completely eradicated. Besides, in their world, suffering means 1) you have sinned somehow and deserve God's wrath, and/or 2) you are being tested by God so you should consider your pain to be an honor.

Fuck that shit, I say. :mad:

In regards to the pharmacists that pull this crap, I strongly believe they should have their licenses yanked and they should be permanently barred from practicing in that field for life. There are reports that there are *increasing* numbers of people going into pharmacology ON PURPOSE who are training in the field (usually at Dominionist-friendly campuses; this is part of their "parallel world" where everything adheres to a strict, even literal, interpretation of Biblical law and there are in fact "diploma mills" which exist for no other reason than to grant cheap licensing to Dominionist clergy and other personnel; legitimate schools and organizations rightly refuse to acknowledge these fake 'diplomas' which don't even require a set bar for training hours, or even any training at all!) in order to block women's access to birth control.

[Seshat]

Frankly, in the future it probably would not be a bad idea for doctors to work more closely with pharmacists while prescribing, especially since pharmacy schools have retired the bachelor's of pharmacy degree (RPh) and instead are teaching the more intensive doctorate of pharmacy degree (PharmD). For people who very often get stuck working in a bloody drug store, pharmacists are absolute experts on pharmacology, far more so than any doctor who are often swayed by the legions of drug reps who truck on through their office and give them nice things.

Both my best friend and I are on complex drug cocktails that keep us functional. And we rely on our pharmacists. We have a couple of favourites, and we consult with one of them when our scripts change.

So far, we haven't needed to go back to the doc and have a different med prescribed, but we have found some interesting variations for over-the-counter stuff like cold medicines.

Yes - that ordinary everyday cold medicine can interfere with your prescription drug cocktail. The combination can send you to the emergency room, or rip up your liver, or otherwise screw you over. If, like us, you need a complex mix of meds to stay functional, get to know a pharmacist! They just might save your life.

That said: no, a pharmacist has no right to screw with your meds because of their religion. If I found out I was getting a placebo instead of a contraceptive*, I'd be furious.

(* except for the 'week off' placebo tablets in certain pill types, which are part of the contraceptive system)

The only reason I want a pharmacist to refuse to dispense a med to me is if he/she notices a contraindication or an unhealthy mix of meds. If he spots that, I DO want the pharmacist to refuse me! I don't want a trip to the ER!

[Dreamstalker]

Exactly. I was on some pretty heavy (completely unnecessary, yet another too-smart-and-easily-bored kid that the system had no clue what to do with) antipsychotics and shit when younger, and one of them could have interacted badly with other crap (yet it was prescribed anyway--WTF? that wasn't filled and as it turned out I never needed it at all).

In general, questioning prescriptions can be needed (for example, MAOIs and other drugs), I was referring specifically to the Pharmacists for Life psychos. Religion should not worm its way into medicine (wouldn't refusing to dispense needed BCP run afoul of "do no harm"?)

[Jadedcarguy]

Have your hubby get a Vasectomy instead. Trust me on this.

Hell yes! I know several women who have had TL and have dated several others. None of them speak highly of the procedure, though most of them were glad they had it done. A vasectomy is far easier, ad if you are in a stable relationship with a man it is a better option.

FWIW, I talked to my doctor about a vasectomy. He gave me a shitload of pamphlets and a "recommendation" to think it over. :confused:

Dude, I'm 33! I have never wanted kids, I don't want kids now, I never will! Think over what? I have already thought this over! GAH! :mad:

[myswtghst]

My personal input - for those considering a permanent birth control method, be patient and try to keep in mind that the doc really does have both your and their best interests at heart. They want to make sure that you're absolutely sure, and that they're following the rules to make sure they don't get in trouble on down the road. Also, keep in mind, the same way some sucky workers/customers have brought some rules/laws/etc into practice that we don't agree with, it's likely the same with the medical field - the idiots that didn't listen brought this about, and it's not likely to change real soon.

As far as hormonal BC, I'm on Ortho Tri Cyclen - one of the original "pills" - and I couldn't live without it. :) I've been on OTC since I was about 16, before I was ever sexually active, because my periods were so heavy and the symptoms that came with them (nausea and other stomach-y issues) usually kept me out of school for at least a day during each cycle. My doc writes "No Substitutions" on the scrip, and I've never had a problem with the insurance since it's "doctor's orders," not my request...even though I asked the doc to do it. I've not had any noticable issues with weight gain or complexion, a few mood swings here and there, but overall, taking it is something I do without thinking, and I'm so much happier. And I still like getting my period monthly - it lets me know I'm not pregnant, and that everything is working as it should. :o

In addition, I always insist on condoms. I have HPV, and while it's a strain that doesn't have any effects on men, it can cause cervical cancer in women. I know, I've had surgery once already to remove pre-cancerous cell growth in my cervix, and I have to have a pap every 3-6 months just to keep an eye on things. Even in a monogamous relationship, I don't want to pass this to someone who could pass it to a future gf down the road. And knowing that up until about 2 years ago, I was entirely asymptomatic (I've only known since day 1 because it was transmitted to me from my mother), I'd be afraid someone could be carrying something and have no idea, unless they've been thoroughly tested. But hey, I might be a little paranoid, and in a good relationship, testing should have been done, so no worries on that.

So yeah, that's my 2c. :)

[Jadedcarguy]

My personal input - for those considering a permanent birth control method, be patient and try to keep in mind that the doc really does have both your and their best interests at heart. They want to make sure that you're absolutely sure, and that they're following the rules to make sure they don't get in trouble on down the road. Also, keep in mind, the same way some sucky workers/customers have brought some rules/laws/etc into practice that we don't agree with, it's likely the same with the medical field - the idiots that didn't listen brought this about, and it's not likely to change real soon.

As far as hormonal BC, I'm on Ortho Tri Cyclen - one of the original "pills" - and I couldn't live without it. :) I've been on OTC since I was about 16, before I was ever sexually active, because my periods were so heavy and the symptoms that came with them (nausea and other stomach-y issues) usually kept me out of school for at least a day during each cycle. My doc writes "No Substitutions" on the scrip, and I've never had a problem with the insurance since it's "doctor's orders," not my request...even though I asked the doc to do it. I've not had any noticable issues with weight gain or complexion, a few mood swings here and there, but overall, taking it is something I do without thinking, and I'm so much happier. And I still like getting my period monthly - it lets me know I'm not pregnant, and that everything is working as it should. :o

In addition, I always insist on condoms. I have HPV, and while it's a strain that doesn't have any effects on men, it can cause cervical cancer in women. I know, I've had surgery once already to remove pre-cancerous cell growth in my cervix, and I have to have a pap every 3-6 months just to keep an eye on things. Even in a monogamous relationship, I don't want to pass this to someone who could pass it to a future gf down the road. And knowing that up until about 2 years ago, I was entirely asymptomatic (I've only known since day 1 because it was transmitted to me from my mother), I'd be afraid someone could be carrying something and have no idea, unless they've been thoroughly tested. But hey, I might be a little paranoid, and in a good relationship, testing should have been done, so no worries on that.

So yeah, that's my 2c. :)

Well thought out. :)