This story makes me sick. [Archive]

IDrinkaRum

11-16-2007, 10:44 PM

http://jezebel.com/gossip/hell-is-other-people/if-you-can-handle-a-really-depressing-teen-suicide-story-right-now-322888.php
http://jezebel.com/gossip/drew-no-blood/are-the-parents-who-myspacetormented-megan-meier-into-killing-herself-ready-to-atone-um-323254.php

13-year-old girl is driven to suicide because of parents of an ex-friend created a myspace.com page, befriended said 13-y.o. and then called her horrible names and made fun of her. That's the first link - the second link is a follow-up story with the names of the people who did this dastardly deed.

I found these links at an LJ community I'm a member of.

As a person who was horribly emotionally & mentally bullied at school by students (and a few teachers in Middle School), I am horrified that adults would do something like this. I have no words to describe how I feel about the cowards who are the parents. I want to know how these parents would feel if their child had been the victim? Would they have found it "funny" to pull a "prank" like this?

I wish the dead child's parents would sue. (From what I can find out, they're not). Also, the FBI and the local law can't find anything to charge the couple with.

I just feel so sick. I have a child - different from others - and I know children can be cruel. But for parents to bully? That's beyond words.

rahmota

11-16-2007, 11:38 PM

Lovely. Cyberbullies. Another sign of the wasteland the internet has become.....

Sad to say I doubt there is any law the people can be charged with. Maybe a civil suit for pain and suffering if that will do any good. And that was supposed to be mature adults? bah....

Greenday

11-16-2007, 11:59 PM

What the hell are people supposed to do when the law won't do anything about it? Ever see The Boondock Saints? Honestly, if a couple of guys started going around, and got rid of all the major crime leaders, I'd sure as hell support them. I personally don't see anything wrong with getting justice done yourself as long as it's not more than necessary. And in this case, I think the community should ban together and make these people miserable, for a long ass time.

Sick assholes. How could any sensible adult do something so stupid? Scumbags.

IDrinkaRum

11-17-2007, 12:24 PM

Here is another update of sorts on the case. It's been posted on Yahoo! this time.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071117/ap_on_re_us/internet_suicide

The local law enforcement are keeping the case open. The parents of the dead girl are trying to change the law & I really hope they sue the heck out of all the people who knew about it and not just the parents who came up with the idea.

Rose Juwl

01-21-2008, 02:30 AM

I wish the dead child's parents would sue.

From what I remember of this story, when it happened, the girl who killed herself wasn't even supposed to be on the computer when the taunting part of this started. The girl was a regular in the grown-ups' ride to school, and the adults were supposedly 'watching out for their daughter, because the girl had been calling their daughter terrible things behind her back'.
I'm also pretty sure the parents of the dead girl TRIED to sue, but couldn't, due to there being no law against such actions (supposedly).
What made it all worse was the other parents were absolutely unapologetic when they were interviewed about the girl's suicide, even though they'd known her most of her life.

Lace Neil Singer

01-21-2008, 12:52 PM

I will be unpopular for saying this, but I really hope the law isn't changed, cuz it's all part of the whole "no-one is to blame for anything they do" idea behind modern life today. I blame the parents of the girl, for not monitoring her computer time, especially on Myspace which is renowned for having pedophiles and fake profiles, and for not taking better care of her at the time. Suing will solve nothing; you can't get blood out of a stone (I doubt these people have much money) and won't bring their daughter back. All it would do is paint these people as greedy. Finally, unless this woman handed the rope to the girl and told her to kill herself, she is NOT responsible for the girl's suicide. It's a terribly society we live in now where no-one is held accountable for their own actions any more and someone must always be blamed.

Yes, bullying is bad; no need to tell me that, I suffered thru bullying for nearly all my school life, but suicide is always the choice of the person who carries it thru. Maybe it was an act of spite, or a cry for help, but the bottom line is that NO-ONE is to blame for it, cept the girl herself. She chose to throw the towel in and take the way out by killing herself, end of. Again, I'm sorry if I sound heartless, but those are the facts, seen purely from a non emotional angle. The woman who made the fake profile and who started off the taunting is guilty of online harrassment and bullying, and those are the charges that should be brought.

However, cuz her victim killed herself, she will carry that around for the rest of her life, same as anyone who knocked down a person with their car or who hit someone who later died. That will be her punishment.

AFPheonix

01-21-2008, 05:14 PM

Suicide usually isn't an option for someone who's brain chemistry is on the up and up. She most likely was depressed something fierce, and those idiot parents of her friend exacerbated it. What they did was something I'd expect from a grade schooler, not a pair of adults. Yes, they are in part to blame for this girl's suicide.

It would have been nice if her parents had noticed, but they didn't, so I'm not going to blame them necessarily. They've got a hard row to hoe as it is, having lost their daughter.

Lace Neil Singer

01-21-2008, 08:22 PM

They are not to blame cuz we don't know what was going thru this girl's mind. Maybe it was accidental, and she only meant to do it for attention or a cry for help; in any case, I still stand by what I said, NO-ONE is to blame for a suicide cept the suicide themselves.

Seshat

01-21-2008, 09:02 PM

Mod request: Let's take the 'who is to blame for a suicide' issue to a separate thread - if we keep it in this thread, we'll derail it.

Seshat

01-21-2008, 09:09 PM

I will be unpopular for saying this, but I really hope the law isn't changed, cuz it's all part of the whole "no-one is to blame for anything they do" idea behind modern life today. I blame the parents of the girl, for not monitoring her computer time,

But your opinions leave the people who chose to bully with no blame. You're blaming the victims but I don't see you expressing any blame for the perpetrators.

I don't think that's fair.

However, cuz her victim killed herself, she will carry that around for the rest of her life, same as anyone who knocked down a person with their car or who hit someone who later died. That will be her punishment.

No, that will be a consequence. I see a strong difference between consequence and punishment.

These adults chose to bully a known-fragile teenager, knowing it was morally wrong. They were maliciously cruel. They freely chose to do something very, very wrong, and I think they deserve punishment, as well as having to live with the consequence.

The parents also have to live with the consequence, and the consequence is much harder for them than for the bullies. IMO, consequence alone is insufficient in this case.

Lace Neil Singer

01-23-2008, 05:01 PM

I do see the perpetrators as committing a crime; you seem to have skipped over these parts of my post:

Bullying is bad

The woman who made the fake profile and who started off the taunting is guilty of online harrassment and bullying, and those are the charges that should be brought.

Next time, I'd appreciate if you'd read my post instead of just posting a knee jerk reaction based on emotion. The parents are at fault for not monitoring the computer time of their CHILD, who also was disturbed and suffering from mental illness. The woman who created the fake profile started off the online bullying, but unless it also spilled over into real life, online bullying is nowhere near as bad as face to face. I think I read elsewhere that it did, in which case the parents should have involved the school and taken their child off the internet, rather than just "monitoring" their child's online time, which could mean anything. Once again, I will state that no child should EVER be allowed on Myspace, supervised or not, cuz it is not a site aimed at children.

And yes, I have been the victim of both online and real life bullying, and it was the real life one that drove me to self harm and an eating disorder. The online one was solved by not going to that site any more. Yes, I'm an adult and the victim in this case was a child, but that merely supports my statement that the parents should have taken her off the computer.

Finally, I don't blame the bullies for the injuries caused by my self harm during the time I was at achool; I myself used the razor blade and knives on my arms and ankles. No-one handed me a knife or blade and made me do it. However, the bullies certainly were responsible for making my life at school an unbearable misery, and that is what these bullies are also responsible for, and should be charged as such.

Greenday

01-23-2008, 09:27 PM

I do see the perpetrators as committing a crime; you seem to have skipped over these parts of my post:

Next time, I'd appreciate if you'd read my post instead of just posting a knee jerk reaction based on emotion. The parents are at fault for not monitoring the computer time of their CHILD, who also was disturbed and suffering from mental illness. The woman who created the fake profile started off the online bullying, but unless it also spilled over into real life, online bullying is nowhere near as bad as face to face. I think I read elsewhere that it did, in which case the parents should have involved the school and taken their child off the internet, rather than just "monitoring" their child's online time, which could mean anything. Once again, I will state that no child should EVER be allowed on Myspace, supervised or not, cuz it is not a site aimed at children.

Finally, I don't blame the bullies for the injuries caused by my self harm during the time I was at achool; I myself used the razor blade and knives on my arms and ankles. No-one handed me a knife or blade and made me do it. However, the bullies certainly were responsible for making my life at school an unbearable misery, and that is what these bullies are also responsible for, and should be charged as such.

I think what Seshat was getting at is, by being charged with online harassment and bullying, they might as well not get charged at all. The "punishments" for those two are the biggest slap on the wrist ever. If the parents of her ex-friend weren't such twits, the girl would have still been alive. To get a slap on the wrist, for leading a kid to suicide, makes a complete mockery of the justice system.

I'll put it this way. YOU try watching every single thing a teenager does.I mean, what were the parents supposed to do, stand behind her and watch her every time she surfs the web? How can you say that Myspace isn't meant for teenagers? If it isn't meant for them, who the heck is it meant for?

As for online bullying not being as bad as bullying in real life, if online bullying can lead to someone killing them self, I can't even imagine what's possible for people who are bullied in real life. Not everyone is the same. From what it sounds like, the girl in the story didn't have any friends in real life. This person on Myspace was her only friend who treated her well and really liked her. Then to all of a sudden lose that friend and have that friend hate you, now having no friends at all, that's pretty crappy. She didn't even stand a chance.

Lace Neil Singer

01-23-2008, 10:17 PM

There are filters you can put on the computer; netnanny's the most popular one, but there are others. And yes, if that's what it took, they could have stood behind her chair and watched her like a lot of parents do when their CHILDREN are online. Would you let your kids walk into a room full of strangers and just leave them there alone? No, so why is the net any different?

Greenday

01-24-2008, 12:18 AM

I guess that stuff would work for a few kids, but then again, you have kids like me who hack their school's firewalls for fun and then laugh when teachers ask how you got passed all the firewalls. I was good at hiding it though.

Being realistic though, who has time to stand over their kids and watch every single thing their kids do? Most people don't. Most parents are working so if the kid is home after school, no one is there to watch everything they do.

And I'm guessing her parents just didn't talk to her about talking to people online. A lot of parents didn't grow up with the internet so it still confuses them. My mom still always warned me about meeting people online and I've been chatting with random people from the internet since I was 13 years old. I mean, I've been on CS since I was 15.

Basically, what I'm getting at is, where there's a will, there's a way. Even if you supervise your kids at home, they can just go to a friend's house, they can go to the library, internet cafes, etc. There's plenty of places for them to go to. You just can't stop a kid from doing what they want on the internet if they really want to do it.

Seshat

01-24-2008, 01:00 AM

Greenday's interpretation of what I meant is essentially correct: the 'punishments' you advocate for the perpetrators are insignificant.

Also, from my memory of the story, there would have been nothing for the parents to 'monitor' up until the end of the event - the climactic event that so upset the victim.

As I recall, all the victim or her parents would have seen would have been a standard teenage romance, played out over internet messaging rather than the letters or phone calls of earlier generations. What should the parents have shielded her from? Classic, typical teenage behaviour? Learning about romance and dating in a way which, as far as they could see, was relatively safe so long as they knew where she physically was and looked over her shoulder to check that the notes were within reasonable bounds? (No cybersex, for example.)

Finally, on the question of who's at fault in self-harm: let's take that to the suicide thread as well, if you want to discuss it. Someone will need to create the thread if it's a topic to be discussed.

And on the question of 'is online bullying worse than physical': that's another thing to take to another thread. It's a separate, though related topic. My personal opinion is that online bullying is equivalent to verbal/emotional bullying, and I've known people who couldn't escape it just by leaving a particular site: their bullies traced them quite tenaciously.

However, any further comments on that topic will go to a separate thread.

Lace Neil Singer

01-24-2008, 01:03 PM

I'm just giving a devil's advocate opinion here; I don't see the point of a discussion board if everyone's on the same side and sagely nodding at each other's opinions.

Boozy

01-24-2008, 01:54 PM

I'm just giving a devil's advocate opinion here; I don't see the point of a discussion board if everyone's on the same side and sagely nodding at each other's opinions.

I agree, although I don't see the point in arguing just for the sake of it either.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing. It just seems like threads like this veer too quickly off topic because everyone agrees on the main point. In this case, the main point is: Grown adults being cruel and manipulative to teenagers = bad.

That's pretty much the crux of it. Now we are arguing the finer points of parental responsibility and the law. I usually stay away from threads where everyone agrees on the main point because this kind of thing becomes dull for me rather quickly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you enjoy a rousing debate as much as I do, we may need to find a meatier subject that creates more substantive disagreement.

Then again, that it may just be me. ;) Carry on, my friends...

Lace Neil Singer

01-24-2008, 07:52 PM

OK... what will it be, abortion, homosexuality or religion? XD Those are the subjects that end up getting topics locked on the other message boards I'm on, after pages of fighting. O_o

Seshat

01-25-2008, 12:25 AM

We have an abortion topic right here in Social Woes. We have a whole sub-board on religion. I'm pretty sure there's a 'homosexual marriage' thread in Social Woes or religion somewhere, but I don't see a 'homosexuality in general' thread.

Of course, we could always start a thread on 'whose fault is suicide or self harm?', or on 'is verbal/emotional bullying more or less harmful than physical' or 'is online bullying more or less harmful than real-world bullying?'
Any of those three threads would probably fit best into social woes.

This particular thread should probably stick to the specific case, rather than the more general issues; that way people interested in this case can focus on the case, and people who would skip this case but are interested in the general issues can participate.

Greenday

01-25-2008, 04:25 AM

What about a thread on bisexual women being bashed by the Catholics for not being heterosexual AND for getting an abortion?

Pedersen

01-25-2008, 04:27 AM

What about a thread on bisexual women being bashed by the Catholics for not being heterosexual AND for getting an abortion?

All of this on the next Oprah.

Sorry, couldn't resist :)

Lace Neil Singer

01-25-2008, 11:55 AM

What about a thread on bisexual women being bashed by the Catholics for not being heterosexual AND for getting an abortion?
:p That might just work.

AFPheonix

01-25-2008, 05:25 PM

All of this on the next Oprah.

Sorry, couldn't resist :)

I was thinking more along the lines of Maury Povich, but I guess his realm of expertise is more along the lines of finding out who the father is out of 12 guys :)

Greenday

01-25-2008, 11:49 PM

Speaking of talk shows, Jerry Springer is coming to my college to talk about his show and about reality tv.

rahmota

01-26-2008, 06:05 AM

Greenday: And dont forget to add extra fuel to that fire that the Aborting Married Lesbians are liberal smokers who are pro-gun.

Oh and if you get the chance ask Jerry if hes written any checks for hos lately.....

I don't see the point of a discussion board if everyone's on the same side and sagely nodding at each other's opinions.
I'll agree with you on that as I'm not allowed back on a board for being a rather vocal dissident in my opnions while they sat around in their circle jerk of communal love. However on boards like this somethign comes up that like boozy said people will wind up agreeing on occasionally. Not everythign can be as contentious and debateable as somethign else.

Seshat

01-26-2008, 09:20 AM

I find that often, if you explore different peoples' differing opinions on topics, you'll usually find a fundamental agreement. What looks like an insurmountable difference sometimes turns out to be differing circumstances, different definitions, or different priorities.

I'm actually very interested in exploring differences: if there is a fundamental difference, I'm interested in finding out why. If there is difference because of circumstance or definition, I'm interested in clearing it up so we can look beneath and see if there really IS a difference.

You can see an example of 'differing circumstances' in the privacy thread: it's highlighted by rahmota's shock at discovering that people live in places where they don't always trust the people they're living with. Everyone in that thread (IIRC) agreed on the fundamental principle that people have a right to privacy, it's just that rahmota's development of that right to privacy was based on his circumstances, and mine was based on circumstances that rahmota hadn't realised existed.

ThePhoneGoddess

01-26-2008, 01:37 PM

Seshat, I just wanted to let you know that you are my favorite person on this site. You have a way of cutting through the grease and getting right to the heart of any discussion or situation. :)

I remember that thread, and I remember MY surprise that Rahmota did not realize how different urban people's experiences were from his. And then I remembered my teenage years, when I lived in a rural area, and I remembered how much I hated the people there, whom I saw as rigid and narrow-minded. It made me realize that I had been looking at them through the eyes of a know-it-all teenager. I was more worldly than them, but that was not their fault. They had a narrower viewpoint than me because they did not understand how fundamentally different life in the city was. I had only known life in the city, and was suddenly experiencing culture shock being in the country. I'm sure now that they looked at me as being narrow-minded because I was so discontent with their culture.

Seshat

01-26-2008, 02:05 PM

Seshat, I just wanted to let you know that you are my favorite person on this site. You have a way of cutting through the grease and getting right to the heart of any discussion or situation. :)

Awww. Thank you. :o

I'm sure now that they looked at me as being narrow-minded because I was so discontent with their culture.

Probably!

As for Rahmota: how could he have known? He'd never experienced it, and details like that aren't often shown in most of our cultural storytelling. He'd be as lost in that sort of urban setting as I would be given a field and told to plow and plant it.

ThePhoneGoddess

01-26-2008, 02:40 PM

As for Rahmota: how could he have known? He'd never experienced it, and details like that aren't often shown in most of our cultural storytelling. He'd be as lost in that sort of urban setting as I would be given a field and told to plow and plant it.

Well, you also have to remember that when I was a teenager, a lot of my negative experience was due to the fact that because the people I lived around had never been anywhere else, they could not understand why I was having such a hard time. Like you said, you'd be lost trying to plant a field. I was totally lost in that setting, but they did not understand; they assumed that I could and should be intimate with their culture, because to them there simply didn't exist any other type of American culture; or if it did, it was inferior. I was made to feel as though my experiences were not valid, and this is why I hold such bitterness toward those years.

Seshat

01-27-2008, 08:18 AM

Bleargh. That's just ... totally wrong. You have my sympathy.

XCashier

05-15-2008, 11:31 PM

kibbles

05-15-2008, 11:54 PM

This latest update is the part of the story I find sick. I honestly don't think she should be charged, what she did was cruel; but, a crime?

Lace Neil Singer

05-16-2008, 02:01 PM

But your opinions leave the people who chose to bully with no blame. You're blaming the victims but I don't see you expressing any blame for the perpetrators.

I don't think that's fair.

No, that will be a consequence. I see a strong difference between consequence and punishment.

These adults chose to bully a known-fragile teenager, knowing it was morally wrong. They were maliciously cruel. They freely chose to do something very, very wrong, and I think they deserve punishment, as well as having to live with the consequence.

The parents also have to live with the consequence, and the consequence is much harder for them than for the bullies. IMO, consequence alone is insufficient in this case.

I think you didn't read my post properly, cuz you missed this part:

The woman who made the fake profile and who started off the taunting is guilty of online harrassment and bullying, and those are the charges that should be brought.

Also, consider this. Let's say that you put your mod hat on and told a user off. That user killed themselves. Would you be to blame? Would you consider it just and fair if that person's parents/partner sued you for their death?

Once again, punishing these people for murder is WRONG. They did NOT hand her the rope and push her off a stairwell. The girl chose to do it. Like I said, maybe she didn't mean to die; sadly, a lot of kids don't seem to realise just how efficient hanging is when used as a method of death dealing. Same goes for the teens who take overdoses as a cry for help or attention and end up wrecking their liver and kidneys, cuz they don't realise the damage that paracetamol can do to their insides.

We'll never know now if this girl even intended suicide, but imo suing or charging the bullies with murder/manslaughter comes under the heading of revenge. Charge them with bullying and harrassment, but don't try and get revenge cuz that won't bring the girl back.

DesignFox

05-16-2008, 03:16 PM

If you read the article closely, it states that the perpetratrators are being charged with fraud and conspiracy. They are charging them with violating the terms of service for MySpace. Not for causing the girl's suicide.

I believe the charges are valid. These are adults. They should be held responsible for their actions.

In this case, they violated the terms of MySpace by creating a false account, using that account to harass another member, and taking a photo of a young boy and using it without his knowledge or permission.

I don't believe anyone should be charged for the girl's murder- afterall, these women didn't put the noose around her neck for her. But they did purposely violate the terms of MySpace in an effort to bully and harass her. And that is what they are being indicted for.

Lace Neil Singer

05-16-2008, 04:48 PM

DesignFox

05-16-2008, 05:29 PM

I was replying to the people who agree that they caused the girl's death, but whatever. I certainly agree with those charges being brought; even an additional charge of cyber bullying being brought too. But some people are saying that they are guilty of murder, pretty much; and that I don't agree with.

I agree with you Lace. I was responding more to Kibbles comment that the fact that any chargers were brought make her sick.

In my opinion, the idictment is being handled properly. The woman is not being held liable for the girl's death. Only for breaking the terms of MySpace- which she agreed to before using the service.

I certainly think that this woman should be held accountable for her actions- in some way, shape or form.