Held hostage for money

[DrFaroohk]

So I got divorced like 5 years ago, and I got this really sweet deal where I was granted permission to pay for half of my ex-wife's stuff. I wanted to pay for all of her stuff, but they only let me pay for half.

And even better, she got to keep 100% of it! I got to pay for half, and she got to keep all. That TV I paid for half of? She got to keep it. the computer? Hers. Furniture? Hers. Cars? Hers. I was so glad it worked out this way. Made me really happy.

But I was so overjoyed that I just sort of "forgot" to give her any money at all for a while, until I got hauled back into court and reminded of said fact. The way we worked it out was I have to give her 20 dollars a week until its paid off. If I miss a week, I get thrown in jail. So far I have been diligent, and the few times I haven't had the money on friday I get it taken care of immediately on Monday and there's never been a problem.

Fast forward, and it's almsot paid off. It might even be totally paid off now.

But I have no idea. Who the hell keeps paperwork lying around for five years? I don't, and I can't remember the exact amount of money I owe her. So it could have been paid off a month ago and I wouldn't know the difference.

I've tried asking various people, but no one will tell me! I called the courthouse, and they whined and bitched because they might have to actually GO UPSTAIRS AND LOOK!!!!!!!! OH NOESZOR!!!! I realize it sucks, but hey, that's your job. Go do it. Except they never did. They never called back.

Same as my ex-wife's lawyer. I even called him, thinking he'd have the correct info and have to give it to me, but he just said "Well I'll take a look..." and I never heard from him again.

I could call my ex-wife, but there's problems there. We haven't spoken since that last day in court, and she has a habit of filing restraining orders on me if I'm not 100% pleasant, and I don't trust her to tell me the truth.

So I just have to keep paying to stay out of jail. Even though its probably paid off by now.

[AdminAssistant]

Who the hell keeps paperwork lying around for five years?

Sorry, but, who the hell throws away their divorce papers? You knew you had to pay off money, why wouldn't you keep a running tab of how much you owed? That would be like me piling up my student loan paperwork and having a bonfire with it. You complain about the courthouse not doing their job, but not your own lack of responsibility.

[Fryk]

Hehe, when I got divorced from my first wife, I was eeeeeeeeevillllllll!!!

But in a sneaky way. Thusly:

"You want the house? Sure, go ahead, I will be nice and let you keep it. Oh yeah, the new car, too. Ditto the computer and furniture. Have a bal!"

She was so happy to get all the stuff!

Of course, we still owed payments on all that stuff, so, since I didn't have it, I didn't have to pay. She got the mortgage, the car payments, the furniture, the computer.... all the payments. She ended up drowning in all the debt and had to sell off the house at a loss because of it. And the best part was, I managed to keep a sad face on and pretend to feel sorry for her, while I was fistpumping and dancing like mad in my head.

Mean? Yes. But... she was the one who wanted a divorce, so that she could try and make it work with the guy she cheated on me with. Oh yeah, and they broke up too!!!

Sometimes, I still fistpump. I'm doing it right now.

[DrFaroohk]

Sorry, but, who the hell throws away their divorce papers? You knew you had to pay off money, why wouldn't you keep a running tab of how much you owed? That would be like me piling up my student loan paperwork and having a bonfire with it. You complain about the courthouse not doing their job, but not your own lack of responsibility.

I didn't just throw them away, but I've moved several times and I'm not overly organized anyway, and shit just gets lost sometimes. Besides, I'm not required to keep paperwork. The courthouse IS. It is their job to have access to basically all the records.

[HYHYBT]

Sorry, but, who the hell throws away their divorce papers? You knew you had to pay off money, why wouldn't you keep a running tab of how much you owed? That would be like me piling up my student loan paperwork and having a bonfire with it. You complain about the courthouse not doing their job, but not your own lack of responsibility.I don't know whether they apply in this case, but there are reasons that even the most important papers might get lost (for example, fire or mold damage, theft, moving loss, etc.) even when you leave out carelessness. And even given a starting amount, it seems awfully easy to lose track of exactly how much you've paid, especially if you don't realize from the beginning the need to keep the correct total yourself. You equate it to deliberately burning loan paperwork, but the loans I've had sent statements every month showing, among other things, *exactly* how much I still owed, and the banks also kept that information ready if I called to ask about it.

[protege]

I can't really have sympathy for people who are careless about their paperwork. In my line of work, if you (pardon the expression) don't have your shit together, you can get yourself into lots of trouble. The IRS, and other financial regulatory boards just *love* fining (or auditing) people who do just that!

Sorry, but it's not their job to tell you how much you owe. Sure, they send out statements, but if you can't be bothered to take care of it--that is, pay the bill, make sure it's paid on time, etc. they don't care.

[kiwi]

Your lawyer should have a copy of the papers, my immigration lawyer has every piece of paper in triplicate.

[AdminAssistant]

I can't really have sympathy for people who are careless about their paperwork

I can't either. I've moved many, many times over the past 9 years or so. From apartments to various dorms, then another apartment, then to another state, and then to a different state. I still have all of my files, and I set aside at least one day a semester to just going through files and binders, organizing, tossing out old stuff, and so on. I can't stand it when people shift blame by saying, "Well, I'm unorganized!" So? Get organized, it's not that damn hard. Once you have a system in place, then its just about maintenance.

[McDreidel09]

Marry me Admin?

My mother is notorious for this kind of crap. She just puts whatever in whichever place, but when it comes time to pay a bill, she doesn't remember what she owes and she can't find it. It is a wonder that the bills get paid at all at her place.

Sorry DrF, I am going to have to join the unsympathetic team on this one. It is part of your responsibility to keep track of paperwork in some way. Have one of those fireproof safes, a folder, a binder, just something. Since you already do not have the paperwork, did you have your own lawyer during this divorce who might have the information? When you do find out the information, please write it down, put it on a magnet on your fridge or keep it somewhere safe.

[Boozy]

Your lawyer should have a copy of the papers, my immigration lawyer has every piece of paper in triplicate.

Ditto.

YOUR lawyer will be able to help you. Your ex-wife's lawyer is not required to do so, and it's not in his (former) client's best interest to help you either.

If you're unable to contact your former attorney, call a new one. They'll send a formal request to the courthouse office to get your records. It won't cost much, and will be better in the long run than continuing to pay a debt you may no longer owe.

[Rageaholic]

Dude, that sucks.

Yeah, you screwed up and all, but we all do. I hope this works out for you.

[Tanasi]

Unless the records are sealed by court order then those records are open to anyone and everyone. Go down to the court house to the records department and look it up yourself and if your'e not allowed then fill out a formal request and get a date to expect the info.
At bit of advice if you've over paid don't ask for reimbursement just let her have it. Write her a letter saying the debt is paid and mail it to where she has to sign for it and copy her lawyer.

[elsporko]

Whats up with this? You most have really wronged her to get that much of a bum deal. You really shouldn't complain if you did something really bad to her.

[Boozy]

Whats up with this? You most have really wronged her to get that much of a bum deal. You really shouldn't complain if you did something really bad to her.

Oh, come on. You haven't heard of nice people getting a bad deal? Have you really so much faith in the US justice system?

Divorce proceedings are a negotiation. Some people are bad at negotiating tactics. Or their lawyers are outclassed. Or they're hurting so badly that they just want it over with and sign anything. Or their ex-spouse lies or cheats.

There are so many reasons why someone might not get a fair deal.

Maybe DrFaroohk did indeed "really wrong her". But that's just one of many possibilities. Why jump to the conclusion that he's entirely at fault?

[elsporko]

There's getting a bad deal and there's getting a bad deal. I think paying for half of everything and the wife getting everything goes beyond a simple bad deal. Plus the fact that he ignored the order to pay makes me suspicious of his character.

[Boozy]

Discussions regarding another member's character are not permitted at Fratching. The topic here is DrFaroohk's difficulties in tracking down lost or misplaced paperwork.

[DrFaroohk]

There's getting a bad deal and there's getting a bad deal. I think paying for half of everything and the wife getting everything goes beyond a simple bad deal. Plus the fact that he ignored the order to pay makes me suspicious of his character.

Valid point, except for the fact that I am now paying. I've righted my wrong.

And around here, people just get fucked in court. It's a known fact in the community that the judge is sympathetic towards women. It happens. I didn't really argue all that much because I knew where it wouldn't go anywhere.

I remember at one point in the conversation the judge asked me "Why haven't you paid her yet?" And one of my reasons was because I had not ever seen one tiny shred of paperwork that justified what I was paying for. It's for a lot of marital debt, so how about a Discover card bill dated from when we were married? How about some receipts on shit we bought? Hmmm? Why is is suddenly 3000 dollars (approximately)? Where did this number come from? What am I paying for?

Judges response:

"Mr. Faroohk, your ex-wife doesn't owe you any explanations. You owe her for your marital debt, end of story. You pay up or go to jail."

Or another great one....

She wanted my drum set. The music gear was MINE. She doesn't know a damn thing about music, although she always pretended to want to try.

She said the drum set was a birthday gift. I pointed out that I didn't buy the drum set anywhere near her birthday. It was my fucking drum set.

She got the drums.

Of course.

Good enough, troll?

[RavenStarr]

Whats up with this? You most have really wronged her to get that much of a bum deal. You really shouldn't complain if you did something really bad to her.

Or she could just be a vindictive bitch who wants to make DrFaroohk's life miserable.

[BlaqueKatt]

I can't really have sympathy for people who are careless about their paperwork.


yup because my having to move everything I could out of a 3 bedroom house in four hours(with a one-year old and no help) because my husband left me and the military housing people said "out or go to jail"=being careless.

oh and this:
there are reasons that even the most important papers might get lost (for example, fire or mold damage, theft, moving loss, etc.) even when you leave out carelessness.

[the_std]

yup because my having to move everything I could out of a 3 bedroom house in four hours(with a one-year old and no help) because my husband left me and the military housing people said "out or go to jail"=being careless.

protege's comment was obviously not about you. Your situation and what happened to you is not in any way a reflection of being careless. I'm not sure how you could even interpret the comment you quoted as being applied to you at all.

[DrFaroohk]

So what if I was careless? The fact is that there are like 3 different people who's job it is to keep track of this stuff. They are paid employees by a lawyer or the county to maintain these records. Why would they do this if they're not supposed to ever go looking for them? Just for posterity? The records are there and maintained for a reason. It doesn't matter why I don't have my records anymore, maybe I lost them in a move, maybe I just wiped my ass with them and then rolled it all into a big joint and sprinkled it with crack and smoked it while watching kiddie porn. Who cares? That has absolutely NOTHING, I repeated NOTHING to do with the courthouse. They have the records and are required to provide them to the appropriate parties. Which is me.

[RavenStarr]

EVERYONE has lost an important paper at one point in thier life. If you haven't ,you will. Why? Because in the real world shit happens.

[kiwi]

EVERYONE has lost an important paper at one point in thier life. If you haven't ,you will. Why? Because in the real world shit happens.

This is true, but then why whine about it when other people do the exact same thing. This is about personal responsibility, if I loose my immigration documents the immigration department is going to spank my arse about it.

Not my lawyers, not my immigration case manager, MY arse is on the line. If you loose something then man up and admit you fucked up, don't whine about how unfair the world is because someone else fucked up to and expect everyone to pat your head and kiss your boo boo.

[Tanasi]

So what if I was careless? The fact is that there are like 3 different people who's job it is to keep track of this stuff. They are paid employees by a lawyer or the county to maintain these records. Why would they do this if they're not supposed to ever go looking for them? Just for posterity? The records are there and maintained for a reason. It doesn't matter why I don't have my records anymore, maybe I lost them in a move, maybe I just wiped my ass with them and then rolled it all into a big joint and sprinkled it with crack and smoked it while watching kiddie porn. Who cares? That has absolutely NOTHING, I repeated NOTHING to do with the courthouse. They have the records and are required to provide them to the appropriate parties. Which is me.

I don't blame you for being pissed-off as I have been in as similar position. Just go to the court house records office and with a "Please/May I/Thank You" attitude look up or ask for a copy of the records. For the lawyer once the case is adjudicated they are off the payroll. I think you'll accomplish more at the court house. Also remember if you get beligerent they'll call the law and have you thrown out at the least or into the pokey.