The obesity 'pandemic'

[smileyeagle1021]

That's interesting because I've never thought of Kevin Smith as obese or even that fat. Sure, he's a bigger bear, but he doesn't appear so large that he can't fit in a plane seat.

I didn't want to derail the thread about Kevin Smith getting kicked off the airplane, but I did want to bring something up.
With all the people talking about how fat Kevin Smith is and the debate on whether or not it is healthy. Which I think is a fair debate. I have seen overweight people who are very strong and in good shape. I've seen skinny people who couldn't lift a paperweight and have health problems out the wazzoo.
I keep hearing everywhere about an obesity pandemic... which aside from the question of whether or not that really is a health problem... I question if it really exists. In the computer lab I'm in, looking around I'd estimate about 50 people in the room... out of them, I would say I am the "fattest" person here (and those who have seen the pictures of me know that isn't that fat). There is apparently 300 people who work where I work, and granted I haven't met or even seen them all... but I can think of maybe a dozen at most people who are more overweight than me. I don't see it on the buses or trains. Where is this pandemic that people talk about?
Penn and Teller did an episode on obesity standards and they brought in a skinny guy... not a visible ounce of fat on his body (nice body by the way too ;) oh, what were we talking about again :p ), the doctor they brought in took the measurements etc. and determined that Mr. I would love to be that skinny was overweight :eek:
So, is it really that big of a health risk?
Is it really the pandemic people claim it is?
And are we setting the standard artificially high which makes it look like a pandemic when it's not?

[Nyoibo]

And let me guess, they determined he was overweight using the BMI?

There is a pandemic of overweight people and people can carry on that you can be fat and fit, but being overweight is still unhealthy, the BMI is used too much and skews results, but just ooking around on the street I can see there's a weight problem in the population.

[Greenday]

I see it plenty. Even living on a college campus, I still see plenty of people who are active but can easily be considered overweight. There's definitely a too high of a percentage of overweight people in this country and regardless of being able to lift weights or whatever, it's still unhealthy.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Well you can't argue the abundance/overmarketing of food problem. There's so much stuff out there to eat. Restauarant portions are in general way too big (in fact a lot of stuff you eat when you go out isn't that healthy for you) and junk food is heavily marketed all over the place (i.e. coke machines).

We, as a society, are continually being told to eat, eat, eat when we don't really need to. I bet most people would be STUNNED at how little food is actually needed to sustain an average, healthy human being for a day. It's a heck of a lot less than most of us eat, I can guarantee you that.

[Kimmik]

I am of the opion that we have forgotten that people come in all shapes and sizes. Myself I range from an American 22 to 24 in womens. But my BP is beyond perfect, cholestrol is super, what I have a problem with is Iron due to almost bleeding to death and vitamin D.

other wise I am very healthy but according to the BMI I am morbidly obese... lets forget that all the numbers say that I am healthy well except the weight one.. that means I should die of a corornary or something. Being "fat" is only unhealthy when it is a detriament to you. If your health is poor you cant move around etc then your weight is a factor...

I can fence.. walk... run.. (ok jog).. without my weight bothering me... My weight only bothers me when some twatwaffle goes... gee your fat.

I am sorry but our society is to hung on perceptions.. and it doesnt matter if I am my "ideal" weight I am never going to be considered thin.

[Nyoibo]

I bet most people would be STUNNED at how little food is actually needed to sustain an average, healthy human being for a day. It's a heck of a lot less than most of us eat, I can guarantee you that.

On average 4 slices of bread, no filling or anything else, just the bread is over 500 calories.

[ladyneeva]

regardless of being able to lift weights or whatever, it's still unhealthy.

And that is your business why? Even if it is true, which there have been studies done to indicate that not only is weight not a good metric for health, it isn't even a good predictor of future health.

But even if we accept that all fat people are going to die immediately, what the hell business is it of anyone elses?

[Nyoibo]

My business because my taxes pay for their health care, being overweight puts you in a higher risk of diabetes, it puts extra strain on the heart leading to heart diseas and other complications, all of which require expensive medication which is subsidised by my taxes..

[elsporko]

Well you can't argue the abundance/overmarketing of food problem. There's so much stuff out there to eat. Restauarant portions are in general way too big (in fact a lot of stuff you eat when you go out isn't that healthy for you) and junk food is heavily marketed all over the place (i.e. coke machines).

We, as a society, are continually being told to eat, eat, eat when we don't really need to. I bet most people would be STUNNED at how little food is actually needed to sustain an average, healthy human being for a day. It's a heck of a lot less than most of us eat, I can guarantee you that.

Its almost like people should have self control and not eat everything that is availiable to them. A crazy concept I know.

[Nyoibo]

It's partly that, it's also that better education is needed, most people are unaware of how much they need to eat and the amount of energy and calories is in what they're eating.

[AdminAssistant]

My business because my taxes pay for their health care, being overweight puts you in a higher risk of diabetes, it puts extra strain on the heart leading to heart diseas and other complications, all of which require expensive medication which is subsidised by my taxes..

'Kay.

Then you'd also support requiring smokers to quit, since that also puts pressure on the health system. Limit pregnancy to...two kids per woman? Because that's expensive. Of course, we'd have to ban drinking alcohol. And any kind of dangerous activity, since all of those things put people at risk.

I'm overweight. I know this. I would like to lose some weight, but it's not a real priority in my life. For example, I could not get through the day without soda, and I can only handle so much diet stuff. So, I will never give up sodas. Not happening. However, my 'ideal' weight is 130, and that will NEVER happen, and I wouldn't want it to. Last time I was 130 (in high school) I was all knees, elbow, and collarbones, no boobs, flat butt....yeesh. Too skinny for me.

I do think that we've overblown the obesity 'pandemic'. Yes, there is a problem, but overstating the problem doesn't solve it.

[Greenday]

It's partly that, it's also that better education is needed, most people are unaware of how much they need to eat and the amount of energy and calories is in what they're eating.

I'm gonna have to say BS. Everyone in this day and age knows that eating too much is bad for you. Most people just don't give a crap.

[ladyneeva]

My business because my taxes pay for their health care, being overweight puts you in a higher risk of diabetes, it puts extra strain on the heart leading to heart diseas and other complications, all of which require expensive medication which is subsidised by my taxes..

First a couple of links... on the diabetes front (http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php), and on the whole it's just calories in/calories out, of course fat people are just thin people who are too stupid to eat right or don't give a crap about their health or (insert insulting/demeaning language that assumes thin people are morally superior to fat people here) link (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?_r=2&sq=weight%20loss%20rockefeller%20university%20&st=cse&scp=3&pagewanted=all)

Not that I expect anyone to read them and not come back with "thats just a bunch of disgusting fatties trying to say they have some kind of right to exist, but we know they're just using it as an excuse to be fat at me!!!".

As far as the "fat people cost me money!!!!" claim, nobody ever begrudges paying taxes (or in the US increased premiums) for people who bang themselves up doing "virtuous" things. I have a friend who tore the hell out of her Achilles tendon year before last doing agility with her dog. Lots of surgeries etc. But she was doing Healthy Physical Stuff, so of course nobody would complain about their tax dollars going to HER health care (or, rather, since we're in the US... their premiums going up to support her "lifestyle"). Does your opinion of if she is allowed to require medical care change when I point out that the woman in question is in her 60's and has a BMI of 33?

Or, conversely, take me. I required medical care for an injury to my foot last year... my BMI is 37. Was I wasting your precious health care dollars? Or do I get a pass because even though I'm a disgusting fatty I was doing Healthy Physical Stuffs at the time of the injury? Which was not caused by my weight... even thin people sprain their ankles when they're hiking and don't see that the rock they're about to step on is covered with ice.

Being thin isn't some magical virtue that will protect someone from ever needing medical care... and being fat does not automatically guarantee that every medical issue that person ever has in their life is caused by being fat. It is not as cut and dried as you would like it to be. Being thin isn't a virtue, and being fat is not a sin.

Compare the actions of the 'fat police' to the actions of your typical fundamentalist homophobe nutjob. If you are honest with yourself, there are a lot of similarities... just four right off the top:

1: Both groups sincerely believe that there are serious health risks inherent in the "lifestyle choices" that the targets of their malice have made.
2: Both groups sincerely feel that of course if the targets of their malice weren't just being weak, sinful, disgusting, perverse, and/or lazy they would naturally just become normal.
3: Both groups honestly think that if we won't choose to conform, we should be derided, belittled, harassed and insulted until we stop being different and start acting like normal people.
4: Both groups honestly feel that they aren't REALLY being hateful/abusive towards us because after all they aren't hating US... they hate our sin, they're just insulting the SIN not the person

[Gravekeeper]

Compare the actions of the 'fat police' to the actions of your typical fundamentalist homophobe nutjob. If you are honest with yourself, there are a lot of similarities... just four right off the top:


That was almost weirdly offensive. You aren't born morbidly obese ( barring crazy rare medical disorders ). You're born gay on the other hand. Like it or not, being overweight is typically the result of lifestyle decisions. Being gay isn't, despite what the homophobe nutjobs you speak of say.

"Pandemic" is just a media buzz word to grab ratings. Yes, there is a problem in the western world, America specifically, but its not exactly Black Plague level regardless of the hype. You do notice it though. I notice it just in Vancouver, which is very multicultural and those other cultures tend to be much healthier and thinner on average then native born Caucasians here. Because they have different lifestyles and values. I also notice it traveling south, where to be bluntly brutally honest, the further south you go, the bigger people get. It *is* noticeable when you enter the States.

I'm not talking body image perception "I'm not fat, society just says I am because of advertising" either. I mean "We may have to remove the wall of your home live on Maury Povich".

Like it or not, the % of people that are grossly overweight for legitimate medical reasons is extremely low. Most of the time it is due simply to lifestyle choices. But having said that, its not justification to mock and belittle people either. As a society we do have a vested interest in being healthier as a whole, so we are reacting as a counterbalance, even if that counterbalance is horrifically misguided in some ways.

Being too skinny is no better then being too fat though. The objective is to be healthy. You can easily be that with some meat on your bones. Its when your body is labouring to support that meat that things become an issue.

[Nyoibo]

I'm gonna have to say BS. Everyone in this day and age knows that eating too much is bad for you. Most people just don't give a crap.

It's not the eating too much, it's what they're eating, like people who think they're being healthy drinking sports drinks, when they're no healthier than soft drinks and no better for you unless you're really exercising hard.



"Pandemic" is just a media buzz word to grab ratings. .

True, it doesn't actually apply as it's not an infectious disease.

[DrFaroohk]

That tax argument is bullshit. I'm a disgusting fatty AND a smoker and I pay plenty of taxes - just look at a pack of smokes! Depending on where you live the taxes can get pretty high. Where I live the tax itself is more than the actual cost of cigarettes. Lot of junkfoods are taxed as well. And me eating at mcdonalds makes sure they have business. Business is good, they hire people. That guy has a job, and works, and pays taxes too. Now we got two people paying taxes.

[ladyneeva]

That was almost weirdly offensive. You aren't born morbidly obese ( barring crazy rare medical disorders ). You're born gay on the other hand. Like it or not, being overweight is typically the result of lifestyle decisions. Being gay isn't, despite what the homophobe nutjobs you speak of say.

Did you read either of the links I posted? Because both of them were about studies that show that there may very well be a stronger case for genetics having a stronger influence on obesity than diet does.

Of course, homophobe nutjobs don't believe that people are born gay either. Which... was really kind of my point. And as far as offensive goes...

I'm not talking body image perception "I'm not fat, society just says I am because of advertising" either. I mean "We may have to remove the wall of your home live on Maury Povich".

You honestly don't see how saying that is offensive to the 99.9999999% of fat people who are NOWHERE REMOTELY close to being unable to fit through a door?

Like it or not, the % of people that are grossly overweight for legitimate medical reasons is extremely low. Most of the time it is due simply to lifestyle choices. But having said that, its not justification to mock and belittle people either.

And saying "oh, just put down the pie", "your cheetos will still be there after you get done {not being lazy}", "you just don't give a crap", and "so fat they have to remove the wall of your home live on TV" are NOT examples of language chosen to mock and belittle fat people? Those are ALL comments that have been made at one time or another on this site.

As far as the derogatory crap goes... look at CS. I've seen a couple of threads where a mod needed to step in to remind people that it's not ok to mention race if race had nothing to do with why the customer sucked. But only a couple, because most people DO realize that race wasn't why their customer sucked so they leave it out.

I've never seen a mod step in and say hey wait, that customer's weight had nothing to do with why she sucked, she would have sucked just as bad if she had been skinny, so leave mention of weight and comments like "fat cow" or references to cheetos out of it. And I've seen DOZENS of threads where mention of the customer's weight was mentioned. Many of them you yourself wrote actually... do you KNOW for a fact that that caller is fat much less that he has "cheeto stained fingers"? Would that smelly weirdly dressed guy on the sky train have smelled any better if he wasn't fat or would his clothes have been any more appropriate?

As a society we do have a vested interest in being healthier as a whole, so we are reacting as a counterbalance, even if that counterbalance is horrifically misguided in some ways.

And that makes it ok? Nobody gives a damn about health, the only thing that matters is weight. I know this because you can't look at someone and know how healthy they are, you can just ASSUME that oh that person is fat they MUST be unhealthy. You basically hear "fat person" and you're picturing the ones they show without heads on TV.

Did you know that that particular body type is WAY in the minority, even among obese people? Depending on that particular person's height and weight, I have the same BMI as most of them, and if you just want to focus on the number on the scale I'm probably heavier than some of them depending how tall they are.

People read "60% of people are overweight or obese" and their gut instinct is to think how horrible it is that 60% of people look like those 'disgusting' headless blob people. So naturally they, like you, get all concerned about how horrible it is that so many people are just exactly as fat as that headless blob person.

The reality is that that 60% figure? The vast majority of those folks are only 'overweight' and only as it relates to the BMI calculation. Which was never intended to be used to define an individual anything. Using the BMI to define health is like using a scale to measure distance. It's not even the right tool for the job.

Being too skinny is no better then being too fat though. The objective is to be healthy. You can easily be that with some meat on your bones. Its when your body is labouring to support that meat that things become an issue.

There you go again. You are ASSUMING that of course, anyone who is fat is "laboring" to support their own weight. Thats not true, there are more healthy fat people than there are unhealthy ones who can't fit through doors.

Sure you'll pay lip service to the idea that maybe somewhere in the world there is a fat person who is not a disgusting blob.

But you'll still treat that person the same way you treat anyone else who isn't conventionally thin and pretty anyway. And that is with scorn and derision and the bombastic assurance that of COURSE they're just fat because "it IS a lifestyle choice!"

[Gravekeeper]

There you go again. You are ASSUMING that of course, anyone who is fat is "laboring" to support their own weight.


I didn't assume anything, you on the other hand practically wrote an editorial about it.

Did you read either of the links I posted? Because both of them were about studies that show that there may very well be a stronger case for genetics having a stronger influence on obesity than diet does.

Yes, I did, and they both statistical risk factors that increase the likelihood of adult obesity and type 2 Diabetes. So...what? I wasn;t even talking Type 2 to begin with. But there's still a direct link between Type 2 and obesity. Finding additional causes and risk factors does not negate the ones we already know about.

As for genetic disposition, well duh, yes, of course there's a link. But again it's a risk factor. Having a gene does not automatically make you 100lbs heavier. Everyone's body is different. Some people are naturally going to be bigger or smaller. Some people have faster metabolism then others. This is all a given. I'm not talking about people who have meat on their bones so to speak, or who are husky, chubby, etc. You can be any of those and still be perfectly healthy, like I said. I'm talking about being morbidly obese where it is impairing your quality of life and health.


Of course, homophobe nutjobs don't believe that people are born gay either. Which... was really kind of my point.

You are born gay. You're not born with a 22% increased chance of gay.


You honestly don't see how saying that is offensive to the 99.9999999% of fat people who are NOWHERE REMOTELY close to being unable to fit through a door?

...what? If you cannot physically get through a door because of weight, there is a problem. You are not healthy. Your quality of life is being impeded.


Many of them you yourself wrote actually... do you KNOW for a fact that that caller is fat much less that he has "cheeto stained fingers"? Would that smelly weirdly dressed guy on the sky train have smelled any better if he wasn't fat or would his clothes have been any more appropriate?

I write for comedic effect. Live with it or hit the report button. If "Cheeto stained fingers" seriously hits a nerve with you, I have no idea what to say to you beyond grow thicker skin.


And that makes it ok? Nobody gives a damn about health, the only thing that matters is weight.

Did not the exact line you quoted say "even if its horrifically misguided"?


Did you know that that particular body type is WAY in the minority, even among obese people?

Did I say it wasn't? My entire post basically summarized into "Nothing wrong with extra weight, but morbidly obese is bad as it isn't healthy"?


Using the BMI to define health is like using a scale to measure distance. It's not even the right tool for the job.

That's nice but I never even mentioned BMI.



There you go again. You are ASSUMING that of course, anyone who is fat is "laboring" to support their own weight. Thats not true, there are more healthy fat people than there are unhealthy ones who can't fit through doors.

I assumed nothing. Did you even read the line you quoted? I specifically said you can be healthy and fat. It's if your body is labouring to try and support itself you are unhealthy. I didn't say "anyone who is fat". I didn't assume anything. Stop putting words into my mouth. Its aggravating.


Sure you'll pay lip service to the idea that maybe somewhere in the world there is a fat person who is not a disgusting blob.

But you'll still treat that person the same way you treat anyone else who isn't conventionally thin and pretty anyway. And that is with scorn and derision and the bombastic assurance that of COURSE they're just fat because "it IS a lifestyle choice!"


Ok, you know what? Done being insulted for daring to use reason. You obviously only read into what I said what you wanted too, filled in the blanks with your own victimization and are now too busy arguing with the illusionary supervillain you falsely perceive me to be to bother talking to the actual me. Who, by the way, is not exactly supermodel material either.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Its almost like people should have self control and not eat everything that is availiable to them. A crazy concept I know.

Well the issue with that is that counteracting the self control is the constant, relentless marketing of food and advertisements and whatnot telling people to eat all the yummy stuff.

I have a fair bit of self control when I eat. I'm one of those people who can crack open a bag of cookies and only eat two. I try to go by serving size wherever possible.

It took me awhile to train myself to have the self control that I do and even now I have times where it's difficult for me to give in.

The abundance of food is only part of the problem. The lack of physical activity is the other part.

Interestingly, as with my observation that it does not take a lot of food to sustain a person, it also does not take a high level of activity to produce positive effects. 15-20 minutes of exercise a day is usually enough to make a person healthier.

[ladyneeva]

But there's still a direct link between Type 2 and obesity. Finding additional causes and risk factors does not negate the ones we already know about.

Where is this study that proves that any statistical link between type 2 diabetes and obesity is one where obesity CAUSES type 2 diabetes? Sure there are dozens and dozens of studies that say "type 2 diabetics are frequently obese"... but could that not just as easily be because type 2 diabetes causes weight gain?

You are born gay. You're not born with a 22% increased chance of gay.

And that is neither here nor there. I am not saying that being fat and being gay are the same exact thing.

What I said was that people TREAT them the same. Both groups are assigning a moral value to someone else's life and body, a life and body that in absolutely NO WAY has any affect on their lives and bodies, and then use their opinion of our moral shortfalls or outright deviancy as justification for saying and doing any damn thing they want to us. And the really clever ones claim they're just big funny jokers and if we don't find it hilarious to be repeatedly insulted, why then of course it means that in addition to being whatever negative stereotype they've pegged on us, we don't have a sense of humor either.

I write for comedic effect. Live with it or hit the report button. If "Cheeto stained fingers" seriously hits a nerve with you, I have no idea what to say to you beyond grow thicker skin.

Exhibit one.

Did I say it wasn't? My entire post basically summarized into "Nothing wrong with extra weight, but morbidly obese is bad as it isn't healthy"? That's nice but I never even mentioned BMI.

You realize obese and morbidly obese are medical terms right? And the only way they are measured is using BMI, because that is the only 'tool' that diagnoses someone as obese or morbidly obese. And again, you are making an assumption where you have absolutely no facts to back it up... you do not know if any given obese individual is healthy or not. All you know is that their physical appearance does not measure up to your standards of what YOU think a healthy person looks like.

Honestly, most people don't even know what an obese person looks like. There is a BMI slideshow around somewhere with photos of people of various sizes and body types and what medical term their weight/height ratio puts them at. Except for a few obvious trolls who think anyone over a size 0 is a disgusting fatty, the general response to it is usually that they wouldn't have pegged a lot of those people as "obese".

Interestingly, as with my observation that it does not take a lot of food to sustain a person, it also does not take a high level of activity to produce positive effects. 15-20 minutes of exercise a day is usually enough to make a person healthier.

The thing is, just because something works for YOU does not mean it will work for everyone, yet everyone and their cousin feels compelled to say that oh, it is just exactly this easy, for everyone, all the time. Usually in this tone that implies that we either must pity the poor fatties who just are too slow to realize the truth, or that we must hate them for being too lazy to do this one completely reasonable thing that works practically every time. And naturally when someone is still fat in spite of following your directives, it is entirely their own fault and they must have screwed it up somehow. It can't possibly be the method thats at fault.

[Gravekeeper]

Well the issue with that is that counteracting the self control is the constant, relentless marketing of food and advertisements and whatnot telling people to eat all the yummy stuff.

Funny thing about marketing and advertising is that, well, its marketing and advertising. If you're incapable of recognizing it as such, you still have the power to ignore it or change the channel. Besides it not like any of this supposed yummy stuff ever actually looks remotely like it what it does on TV. -.-


Where is this study that proves that any statistical link between type 2 diabetes and obesity is one where obesity CAUSES type 2 diabetes?

Its a fact that the prevalence of Type 2 diabetes has increased parallel to obesity rates. Chronic obesity can lead to insulin resistance, which of course leads to Type 2 Diabetes. It is true that metabolic changes brought on by Type 2 can lead to obesity as well ( Catch 22 ). However, diet and weight are still huge factors which was determined by simply studying members of the same genetic pool that had immigrated to western nations vs those that remained in the country of origin ( Hint: They gained more weight and thus developed Type 2 more often ).


You realize obese and morbidly obese are medical terms right?

Then do tell me what the technically term I'm suppose to be using here is rather then nitpicking the semantics of every term I use so you can spiral off into a new tangent?


The thing is, just because something works for YOU does not mean it will work for everyone, yet everyone and their cousin feels compelled to say that oh, it is just exactly this easy, for everyone, all the time.

No shit. Did I say anywhere that it was easy for everyone? No? Did I even say it was easy for me? No? So I must again restate my previous observation: Who exactly are you arguing with? It's clearly not me.


It can't possibly be the method thats at fault.

Different things obviously work better for different people with different bodies. But its not everyone else's responsibility to find out what those things are for you. Its your body, your responsibility. If you aren't happy about it, do something about it don't whine that the rest of humanity should change itself as a whole just to make you feel better. Do something to make yourself feel better and thank whatever deity you believe in that of all things about your appearance you may not like at least you were handed the one you have the power to change.

[Nyoibo]

I'm just going to throw this stuff out there, so bare with me.

The BLI is not the only tool used to classify obesity, waist/hip ratio and body fat percentage are also, and when combined help eliminate the shortcomings of the BMI.

Being overweight is not healthy, ahrp on all you want that you can be healthy and overweight but no, you can have good fitness yess but fitness and health are two different things, being overweight puts more strain on the heart, it has to pump blood over an increased distance and more pressure is put on the veins and arteries, it puts increased strain on joints leading to osteoarthritis.

Every overweight person I've known, my self included, is overweight because of two things, they eat too much and they don't get enough physical activity.

(speaking of overeating, foods here, will finish later :p)

[Vagabond]

Here's another twist I'll throw at you all:
Let's say I am 6'2", 197 lbs. I tape (poor cousin/brother of the Body Mass Index) of around 20% body fat. By looking at me, you could assume I'm healthy and fit.
And you'd be sooo very wrong.
My BP is consistently 150 over 100, I smoke, I drink and I exercise rarely (Carrying a case of beer doesn't count?).

So, while I look fit, can easily fit into the tiniest of airline seats, but am terribly unhealthy.

And as far as the Obesity thing - At least as far as the US state of Georgia, while they do have some big boys (and girls), some can't help it, but Georgia does have a tendency to fry everything. They'll fry steak, chicken, potatoes, hell, they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

[Gravekeeper]

being overweight puts more strain on the heart, it has to pump blood over an increased distance and more pressure is put on the veins and arteries, it puts increased strain on joints leading to osteoarthritis.


Thank you, that is precisely what I meant when I said "labouring". That there is physical strain on the body specifically because of excess weight.

[smileyeagle1021]

they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

sadly, I think they have...

One thing I'm surprised no one has mentioned is the fact that for thousands of years we barely got enough food to survive and we hardwired ourselves to eat whenever we got the chance to insure that we had enough calories stored... fast forward to modern times with diesel powered farm equipment and chemical fertilizer, food storage and transportation networks... we can get food whenever we want and still feel the need to eat whenever possible due to that instinct to store up for the upcoming lean times (which now may never come).

As far as the diabetes argument... I've known people with (type 2) diabetes who by the BMI were perfectly healthy and people who went to their graves diabetes free who by the BMI should have had every disease there was.
Weight may be a factor, but it is not the soul determinant.

[Boozy]

I've never seen a mod step in and say hey wait, that customer's weight had nothing to do with why she sucked, she would have sucked just as bad if she had been skinny, so leave mention of weight and comments like "fat cow" or references to cheetos out of it. And I've seen DOZENS of threads where mention of the customer's weight was mentioned.

I can think of at least half a dozen instances off hand where we have stepped in and removed offensive and irrelevant references to weight at CS. It is our policy to do so when such comments are degrading.

When you see a post that bothers you, do you report it?

Too many members assume that we are omniscient and are aware of every single post. We aren't. We expect our members to contribute to the community by reporting the posts they find bothersome.

You can argue that society in general is unfair and biased, but please don't use CS as an example -- especially when you haven't bothered to do anything about it yourself.

[Greenday]

And as far as the Obesity thing - At least as far as the US state of Georgia, while they do have some big boys (and girls), some can't help it, but Georgia does have a tendency to fry everything. They'll fry steak, chicken, potatoes, hell, they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

Who's fault is that though? No one is forcing people to eat everything fried.

[Vagabond]

No one is forcing them to eat it, that it true, that's why I said it only contributes to the problem.
Also, in Georgia, while I was there, about 1/2 the menu at any given place is fried something or other. Only notable exceptions would be Pizza places, Olive Garden (& the like), Asian food places, and some burger joints. However, while those places aren't known for fried foods, they do have some, I'm sure.
Also, in Georgia, it's slightly cultural - Frying up everything. Not unlike having rice and a seafood item would be considered culturally Asian/Japanese.
If I think of 'Southern' food, I tend to think of fried Okra, fried chicken, fried squash... etc. Jambalaya, which is fried sausage and seasonings.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I will also throw in the fact that not every single person who's overweight is that way due to having eaten all the pies. There is an eating disorder called compulsive eating disorder which causes people to be overweight; it's basically a vicious cycle of bingeing on food, then dieting, then bingeing again. I suffered from it all thru my teens and it took a long time to break the cycle, lose the weight and feel good about myself again.

However, there are far too many people who are unsympathetic about CED. They'll sympathise with a skeletal anorexic (incidentally, that's an example of a skinny person putting a strain on the health service) but will just say something like, "Then stop eating, dammit," if someone has CED. It's not that simple. That's like telling an anorexic to "Eat more, dammit".

[AdminAssistant]

hell, they'd fry up a Coca-Cola if they could figure out how... and that contributes to the obesity problem.

I have heard of fried Dr. Pepper in Texas.

Also, in Georgia, it's slightly cultural - Frying up everything. Not unlike having rice and a seafood item would be considered culturally Asian/Japanese.
If I think of 'Southern' food, I tend to think of fried Okra, fried chicken, fried squash... etc. Jambalaya, which is fried sausage and seasonings.

While fried food is a staple of the American South, it is a stereotype to think that everything we eat is fried. There are lots of vegetables and greens, lots of pork - fresh homemade food. If you see 'Southern' restaurants in, say, Atlanta that fry anything and everything, they are trying desperately to be 'Southern' and failing. That's not the food I grew up on. I actually didn't gain weight until I moved out of my parents' house and was eating processed junk food instead of Mama's cooking.

[BlaqueKatt]

it also does not take a high level of activity to produce positive effects. 15-20 minutes of exercise a day is usually enough to make a person healthier.




The thing is, just because something works for YOU does not mean it will work for everyone, yet everyone and their cousin feels compelled to say that oh, it is just exactly this easy, for everyone, all the time.


hmm as far as I'm aware basic human biology proves that 15-20 minutes of exercise a day will make someone healthier. And that does go for everyone, all the time-biology usually does.

remember healthier: enjoying health and vigor* of body, mind, or spirit

antonym-sick

not as you seem to be assuming....which appears to be healthier=thinner-it does not-being health means the absence of illness-so a thin person with a cold is less healthy than a heavier person without one.

I'm healthier than my sister at the moment, not because she is overweight, but because she has whooping cough. Once she's done with her antibiotics she'll be just as healthy as I am. If I catch the flu next week once she's done with her antibiotics-guess what, she'll be healthier....


*vig·or
active strength or force.

[ladyneeva]

I am not the one who assumes thin=healthy. Rather, it is society as a whole (including at least three people in this thread) who assume fat=unhealthy.

Basic human biology my ass. I've seen studies and been harped on by internet MDs such as yourself, and been bitched at by doctors my whole life and damn near every single one of them has a different magic formula that will "cure" me.

Everything from the 30 minutes once a week that was the in thing to harp on when I was in grade school, to a study in November of 08 that said roughly 30% of European derived Caucasians would require 3-4 hours *a day* in order to maintain any meaningful weight loss.

Everyone requires a different amount of exercise and food in order to become or maintain 'average' weight. And for some people, the amount of exercise required is exorbitant and the amount of food allowed is insufficient. They should not be subjected to either punishment or pity because of that since, for the most part, they are as healthy as anyone else most of the time.

As far as reporting offensive posts... yeah. That does a lot of good. Because it's totally ok to say that an entire group of people are any demeaning, dehumanizing stereotype you care to use, but heaven forbid you actually call an asshole an asshole. I guess people who are part of a group aren't allowed to have feelings or anything.

[MaggieTheCat]

Could someone please tell me where Crazedclerk ever said that 15-20 minutes of exercise a day would make you THINNER? He stated that it would make you HEALTHIER. How is taking a 15 minute walk every day not a good thing for anyone? Even if you don't lose ANY weight from it -- which he never claimed in the first place, as far as I can tell -- it will still help your body in other ways. You'll get fresh air and stretch your legs and work your lungs and heart, even just a little bit, making them stronger. All of those things are good for your body, even if you don't lose an ounce of weight in the process.

Also, I'm failing to see where BK ever stated or even implied that fat=unhealthy. She even explicitly states thin people can be less healthy that fat people depending on the circumstances (illness, etc.)

[Nyoibo]

Everyone requires a different amount of exercise and food in order to become or maintain 'average' weight. And for some people, the amount of exercise required is exorbitant and the amount of food allowed is insufficient.

If a person is maintaining their weight then the amount of food is not insufficient, if the amount of food you're eating is insuficient then you will start to loose weight and eventually muscle tone. insufficient for their appetite perhaps.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

Could someone please tell me where Crazedclerk ever said that 15-20 minutes of exercise a day would make you THINNER? He stated that it would make you HEALTHIER. How is taking a 15 minute walk every day not a good thing for anyone? Even if you don't lose ANY weight from it -- which he never claimed in the first place, as far as I can tell -- it will still help your body in other ways. You'll get fresh air and stretch your legs and work your lungs and heart, even just a little bit, making them stronger. All of those things are good for your body, even if you don't lose an ounce of weight in the process.

Also, I'm failing to see where BK ever stated or even implied that fat=unhealthy. She even explicitly states thin people can be less healthy that fat people depending on the circumstances (illness, etc.)

Thank you! My comments were with regards to general health.

Weight loss is another matter. There are no magic potions or pills for weight loss but the basic formula for weight loss is using up more energy than you take in, forcing your body to use fat stores to cover the difference.

Usually people who want to lose weight make a point of cutting calories and increasing activity level. Having said that, it can be very challenging for someone to cut back calorie count. You will endure times of intense hunger that you must learn to fight.

Diets can work, but if you are talking about taking it off and keeping it off you need fullscale lifestyle changes, not a short term diet.

My concern is that soceitally we don't really motivate people to lose weight and be healthy as much as we motivate them to eat plenty of junk food and spend their time fiddling with the newest laptop or cell phone or Xbox 360 instead of being active.

[AdminAssistant]

You will endure times of intense hunger that you must learn to fight.

Yeah, you know what? I'm not willing to go through intense hunger and sugar crashes to better fit society's idea of what I should look like. I'd rather stay a bit overweight.

[Rapscallion]

As far as reporting offensive posts... yeah. That does a lot of good. Because it's totally ok to say that an entire group of people are any demeaning, dehumanizing stereotype you care to use, but heaven forbid you actually call an asshole an asshole. I guess people who are part of a group aren't allowed to have feelings or anything.

As a general rule, if someone mentions a person's size once in a way we consider to be non-derogatory, then that's setting the scene.

"I was in a queue at the fast food joint, and I could barely see around the huge guy in front of me, but I could hear the SC loud and clear" - perfectly fine.

A post that harps on about someone's weight is going to get trimmed to within an inch of its life. "Land whale," "Hambeast" etc - not going to cut it.

We often get them before people see them, but some (usually from non-moderated posters past the new user moderation) get through, and we don't see them all. Of course, we don't expect someone to have too thin a skin and report anything that could be even remotely offensive. We aim at a middle ground between taking too much offence and giving too much offence.

I can't remember a reported post about weight in some time. Sounds like it's easier to curse the darkness than to light a candle.

Rapscallion

[bhskittykatt]

Throwing my two cents out there.

As someone who lost 65 lbs last year (and is still shrinking), I can tell you that if it was as simple as cutting calories and exercising more, we wouldn't even be talking about this issue. Sleep, stress, and cultural influences play huge roles. Don't even get me started on how food manufacturers taylor their products to give the highest "bliss point" to get people hooked so they keep people hooked on buying their products. Just because one is overweight doesn't mean they are lazy slobs. I worked hard at my career, my home, my social life...I wasn't by any means lazy, the problem was I wasn't taking the time to work hard at myself.

Obesity is a big problem, though, especially in America. Rates of obesity-related diseases such as diabetes and hypertension are on the rise. Projections based on BMI may not accurately reflect how much of the population is actually overweight, but when we look at other factors such as obesity-related diseases, it's clearly a growing problem (pardon the pun). At least here in the states, I think "pandemic" is an appropriate term.

One thing is certain: fat biases and stereotypes won't help. People don't need to be told they're lazy, smelly, fat slobs. That doesn't motivate anyone, and in fact can have the opposite effect. What people need is positive support and encouragement to make healthy lifestyle changes.

[ladyneeva]

Why light a candle when it'll just be blown out? By, for example, claiming that derogatory imagery is just "setting the scene".

Sure, walking will make you healthier, maybe, a little bit. But being "healthier" will not reduce the amount of hate you are subjected to, which is what I'm talking about. It won't make a health insurance company offer you the same rate as a thin person who is LESS "healthy" that way than you are. It won't keep you from being kicked off a plane. It won't keep your every comment on any subject from being dismissed with "yeah well, cheetos!" or other similar assumptions.

Being healthier in a culture that worships thin at any cost is worth exactly nothing. Absolute best case, it just means you have to live longer with the same bullshit.

[MaggieTheCat]

Why light a candle when it'll just be blown out?

*snip snip*

Being healthier in a culture that worships thin at any cost is worth exactly nothing. Absolute best case, it just means you have to live longer with the same bullshit.

Wow, what a great attitude to take. Why should people bother trying to do a little something to make themselves feel better? For that matter, why should people even bother getting out of bed every day? They're just going to have to face the big bad world and the end result will be the same for everyone eventually. Why don't we all just lay down and die now and save ourselves the misery?

[Rapscallion]

Why light a candle when it'll just be blown out? By, for example, claiming that derogatory imagery is just "setting the scene".

Giving up before you even try and then condemning people anyway? That's like not voting and then feeling you have every right to complain about the politicians you end up with.

You also ignored what I wrote. We edit more posts than you realise. This isn't enough, is it?

My standard offer remains. There are plenty of free options out there for running a forum. Invisionfree is one such offer. Hosting can be fairly cheap if you're looking for something like phpBB (a relatively low CPU board software, but also open source and free). Try it.

Seriously - try it.

You'd get eaten alive.

Rapscallion

[iradney]

As far as reporting offensive posts... yeah. That does a lot of good. Because it's totally ok to say that an entire group of people are any demeaning, dehumanizing stereotype you care to use, but heaven forbid you actually call an asshole an asshole. I guess people who are part of a group aren't allowed to have feelings or anything.

I am a mod on CS.com - you have no idea how many posts we have edited, and infractions have been given for that type of "generalising" behaviour.
It's kind of like a duck in water - it's all serene on the surface, but below, there's a frenzy of activity. We work damn hard to make sure that CS.com is a welcoming site, but we are not allknowing, allseeing, allpowerful beings. If a post offends you, report it.

I am fat. Yes, I am actually THISCLOSE to obese - I am about 65 pounds overweight. Is it my fault? Yes. I ate too much junk food and didn't do anymore exercise other than walk to and from my car. I am losing weight, slowly but surely. How? Eating healthily (I still have a full plate of food, but instead of grease, I have veggies and grilled meats), and exercising. It's a simple formula -> energy in/energy out. If you consume e.g. 1800 calories in one day, and don't do any exercise other than your usual desk-job, then you will gain weight. If you consume 1800 calories and do an hour of exercise (walking, anaerobic etc), you will maintain your weight.

My fiance does body building. At his peak, he had to consume 12 000 calories in one day to MAINTAIN his weight, because his resting metabolism was so high. Why? Because of all the lean muscle he has.

I don't even know why I bothered typing all of this, as it will go straight over your head, and you will twist my words around to suit whatever mood you are currently in.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I will also state that a lot of people have a very warped idea of what "fat" is; especially in the modelling industry. "Oh, it's no wonder she can't get any work, she's covered with flab. She must be a size twelve!" "Urgh, thunder thighs; get yourself down to a zero or kiss goodbye to that modelling contract." Sadly, it's not just them; I've encountered a few men who believe that any woman who is bigger than a twelve is fat. I'm 5ft 9in. I'm an hourglass. If I were a ten, I'd be too thin... and my hips would still stick out, cuz that's what my body shape is. It's sad really, that people think this way; and this kind of mentality is probably one of the reasons why there are so many teenagers suffering from eating disorders.

[ladyneeva]

I am not "condemning" you. 99% of the time, the mods at both these sites do an excellent job. I'm saying that you appear to have a serious blind spot when it comes to references to people's appearance being used as a casual insult.

Take your 'setting the scene' example. No way a post that said "I couldn't see because there was a nigger in my way", or "I couldn't see because there was a faggot in my way" would be allowed to stand. Because the attitudes towards blacks and gays expressed by those sentences are vile and mostly because the race or orientation of the person blocking the poster's view is not relevant. But you said yourself, it would be ok to say that the guy blocking the poster was fat, thus implying that the reason the person was blocking their view was because they were fat. If someone is so fat that you can't simply take half a step to the side and see around them, it is unlikely that they would be able to support their own weight seeing as they'd need to be over a thousand pounds. I base this on the fact that I go to zoos a lot, and even if the hippo is rubbing it's ass on the exhibit fence 6" in front of my face, I've never had to step more than a couple inches to the side to see around them.

And a hippo is MUCH wider than even the fattest human who can still stand up without breaking their own legs.

Whats wrong with leaving physical descriptions out if they are not material to the story? The story there was not "there was this fat person and because he was fat, X happened". It's "there was a person standing in front of me, so I couldn't see". The person in line was not a fat cow, or a hambeast, etc.

Generally, the mods do a damn fine job, because on the few occasions I've seen someone use an epithet based on race, orientation, religion, etc... if I go back to that post it is almost always gone (the epithet, not the post though I think that happened once last year) or at the very least a mod will have posted that it's not appropriate to mention race if it had nothing to do with why that customer sucked (or whatever).

The hambeast references, the disgusting blob comments, the cheeto stained fingers too fat to press a phone keypad comments? Those are still there basically every time. I can't actually think of a single time a post with some derogatory casual insults either of a specific customer's appearance or of fat people in general has been edited when I've come back to it.

So either there isn't a single racist, homophobe, religiously prejudiced, etc user on the entire site-- which is highly highly HIGHLY unlikely given the anonymous nature of the internet.... or the moderation staff is very very good and on the ball.

And if we assume that the moderation staff is so good that nearly every racial/orientation/religious slur is edited out before anyone ever sees it and those that do slip past are removed within a day tops (which simple observation proves)... well, what other reason are people to draw for why appearance based slurs are allowed to stand other than that it is ok to insult people based on their appearance (and/or insult an entire group by using their appearance to infer some other negative quality like sloth or gluttony)?

--

As for the whole "we're just worried about health!" thing... if that were the case, and fat was not being near universally considered to be worse than illness, why is it called an OBESITY pandemic and not an "ill health" pandemic or an "unfit" pandemic or even a "people doing unhealthy things" pandemic?

Pretending that oh, of course you think discrimination is bad and you agree that fat people can be healthy... in a discussion about a topic whose very name includes the word obesity in a negative context (obesity epidemic/pandemic... war on obesity... etc) is kind of... well not very convincing.

Of course people are going to take "just exercise more!" to mean "if you exercise you'll lose weight and this is good because weight is bad!" when the topic under discussion is "should we as a society treat obese people the same way we treat a global outbreak of contagious disease" and not "should society become more fit".

Yes, people should have access to more and healthier food, have enough money to buy that food, and have enough time in a day to cook that food. Yes, people should get more exercise if they are physically able to and they should have enough time in a day to do so without having to skip other more important things like laundry, pet care, child care, sleep, etc, and enough money to go to a safe place to exercise in if their neighborhood is not safe. Nobody is ever or HAS ever argued against these things being good.

There are ways to promote those without shaming one group of people who may or may not do those things already anyway. It's just very condescending to make fat people prove over and over again that they DO eat well, they DO exercise, they ARE healthy before you'll deign to treat them like people first and fatties second. Thin/average people never have to reassure every single person they come in contact with that they eat well, exercise, and aren't sick. It's just assumed.

Thats really all most of us want. To actually have it be assumed that we're people first and unless we're actually stroking out in front of you that we're as relatively healthy as anyone else who is also not actually dying right then and there.

[Nyoibo]

Being blak or gay are things someone has no control over, appearace, more specifically being overweight is something people have control over (barring certain medical conditions) it is a lifestyle choice of either too little activity to offset the amount of food being eaten or refusing to decrease the amount of food being eaten to match the activity level, something that is a choice, especially one that is detrimental to your wellbeing will always be met with derision from others, if you choose to live that way then grow a thicker skin and deal with it.

Smokers get the same treatment, even on CS there's comments about them being nicotine stained smelly smoke stacks, but it's a lifestyle choice that is detrimental to their health, intentionally harming yourself boils down to basically being dumb.

[iradney]

I am not "condemning" you. 99% of the time, the mods at both these sites do an excellent job. I'm saying that you appear to have a serious blind spot when it comes to references to people's appearance being used as a casual insult.

Take your 'setting the scene' example. No way a post that said "I couldn't see because there was a nigger in my way", or "I couldn't see because there was a faggot in my way" would be allowed to stand. Because the attitudes towards blacks and gays expressed by those sentences are vile and mostly because the race or orientation of the person blocking the poster's view is not relevant.

What about mentioning clothes? Or hair colour? Or even gender? Or age? Sooner or later posts will look like

"There was an individual standing in my way. The individual was very rude in the way that the individual acted"

For fear of offending EVERYONE.

You can't please all the people all the time.

Oh, and btw, trying to compare hippos to humans is not a good way to go. Completely different builds there - unless you know humans that spray their poop with their tail?

You are taking this far too personally, and in your attempt to be a hero for the overweight masses, you are alienating pretty much everyone on fratching with YOUR generalisations about everyone else.

[KitterCat]

If someone is so fat that you can't simply take half a step to the side and see around them, it is unlikely that they would be able to support their own weight seeing as they'd need to be over a thousand pounds.

Strange, My hubbies been on EMT calls where the person was physically unable to walk due to weight issues and they weren’t anywhere near 1000 pounds. Lots of 400,500, some 600, but no 1000. Maybe you need to look at what the human bodies actually built to carry instead of looking at a hippos? Remember hippos also spend a lot of time in the water due to their weight.

As for the whole "we're just worried about health!" thing... if that were the case, and fat was not being near universally considered to be worse than illness, why is it called an OBESITY pandemic and not an "ill health" pandemic or an "unfit" pandemic or even a "people doing unhealthy things" pandemic?

Lets just P.C. all forms of speech so that no ones feelings gets hurt. Like calling people hearing impaired, visually detoured, or vertically challenged. Strange your still deaf, blind and a dwarf/midget. And now you’ve made me laugh because its just to easy to get a rise out of you. Considering it’s an over weight issue that’s causing the problems it makes sense to call it an Obesity pandemic. Same as if it was an underweight issue - like in professional modeling- it makes sense to call it an anorexic pandemic.

It's just very condescending to make fat people prove over and over again that they DO eat well, they DO exercise, they ARE healthy before you'll deign to treat them like people first and fatties second. Thin/average people never have to reassure every single person they come in contact with that they eat well, exercise, and aren't sick. It's just assumed.

Well seeing that most people who are overweight make themselves that way through their own choices as a whole. People aren’t born 400 pounds. People look at them and commonsense says that they’ve done something to make themselves that way. Most people with weight issues are that way not because of medical issues, such as an under active thyroid. Instead they have medical issues due to the weight, such as poor circulation, heart problems, cholesterol.

Very rarely do I ever see an obese person eating anything healthy. And I’m pretty sure that as a norm most people here have run across the same issue. Wither its family members, friends or co-workers, they choose to either eat to much or not exercise or both. And then wonder why the rest of us are left shaking their heads when they start complaining about their health.

[smileyeagle1021]

Being blak or gay are things someone has no control over, appearace, more specifically being overweight is something people have control over .

I'm kind of glad that you added the "specifically being overweight" part... a lot of appearance people have no control over... short of expensive surgeries there is nothing I can do about the shape of my eyes, or the spacing between them... can't do a damned thing about the breadth of the shoulder bone or the hip bone. The same can be said about the shape of one's nose or the size and placement of one's ears.

I can lose all the weight I want and I will still have one ear slightly higher than the other, lose all the weight that I want and still have very broad shoulders and hips, etc.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I can lose all the weight I want and I will still have one ear slightly higher than the other, lose all the weight that I want and still have very broad shoulders and hips, etc.

Same here. My natural body shape leans to big hips and bust; I could starve myself and I'd still have those big hips. I was pointing this out in my last post, which got ignored in favour of vitriol. -.- For the record, I agree that fat people get discriminated against, but this is about the unhealthily obese; not the people carrying a couple of extra stone.

Like this guy, here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221592/Worlds-heaviest-man-needs-Chinook-airlift-life-saving-operation.html). At his heaviest, he weighed 70 stone and his care cost the British taxpayers £100,000 a year. After a free gastric bypass, he now weighs about 50 stone... but he still is counted as morbidly obese, and is still costing the taxpayer a crapload of money. X (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1247624/Worlds-heaviest-man-Paul-Mason-loses-20-stone-gastric-bypass-surgery.html)

Most people who are carrying a little extra weight are not in that bracket. They are not costing the taxpayer any more money than those who, for example, play dangerous sports or have lots of children.

[Gravekeeper]

Like this guy, here (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1221592/Worlds-heaviest-man-needs-Chinook-airlift-life-saving-operation.html). At his heaviest, he weighed 70 stone and his care cost the British taxpayers £100,000 a year. After a free gastric bypass, he now weighs about 50 stone... but he still is counted as morbidly obese, and is still costing the taxpayer a crapload of money. X (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1247624/Worlds-heaviest-man-Paul-Mason-loses-20-stone-gastric-bypass-surgery.html)


The articles mention he did this intentionally ( he wanted to become the world's fattest man ) and has no medical conditions complicating the problem. In which case he is an asshole. >.>

[gremcint]

Take your 'setting the scene' example. No way a post that said "I couldn't see because there was a nigger in my way", or "I couldn't see because there was a faggot in my way" would be allowed to stand.

There's a difference between large guy and fatty.
There's a difference between black guy and nigger.
There's a difference between effeminate and faggot.

[Nyoibo]

Strange, My hubbies been on EMT calls where the person was physically unable to walk due to weight issues and they weren’t anywhere near 1000 pounds. Lots of 400,500, some 600, but no 1000. Maybe you need to look at what the human bodies actually built to carry instead of looking at a hippos? Remember hippos also spend a lot of time in the water due to their weight.


The human body is quite capable of carrying 600-700 lbs, ok not far, but capable, I had 3 people on my back, totaling about 450lbs, add in my around 220 at the time and that's 670lbs my body was carrying, I made it 10 yards before they had to get off.

[Gravekeeper]

The human body is quite capable of carrying 600-700 lbs, ok not far, but capable, I had 3 people on my back, totaling about 450lbs, add in my around 220 at the time and that's 670lbs my body was carrying, I made it 10 yards before they had to get off.

I would collapse, curl into a ball and likely die a slow, agonizing death. But then since I tore ligaments back there last year it just doesn't function properly anymore and likely never will again. Granted, even when it use to, I was a one person max ride. ;p

[Nyoibo]

It's kind of what comes of being a circus performer. :p

[Rapscallion]

Thats really all most of us want. To actually have it be assumed that we're people first and unless we're actually stroking out in front of you that we're as relatively healthy as anyone else who is also not actually dying right then and there.

What you want is more censorship.

We have what I consider to be a reasonable control of things on CS.com. We don't allow blatant 'hippo' or 'hambeast' comments and edit them out. Relatively minor comments will be allowed to stand to set the scene.

I believe I already said the above.

So, you want to compare your plight to that of a onetime slave race? I don't think it's even in the same league, but you wouldn't get sympathy without doing so, would you? There's no law that ever prevented you using the same facilities as anyone else, nothing that said you had to work for others for free and perhaps even bear your master's children, nothing to say you could be uprooted from your homeland and taken elsewhere to work in servitude.

"Hey, I'm a pedophile, but I want to be accepted."

Slippery slope slips in both ways. Remember that.

I'm overweight. It's down to the overly large number of calories I eat, or have eaten. I carry far too much extra weight. It's helped in the gradual fecking of my knees due to osteo arthritis. I'm at a higher risk of diabetes and several other conditions.

You know what? It's my fault and I accept it. It's not my genes or medication I'm taking. I like eating. I don't expect anyone to salve my feelings, to make me feel better over something I did.

Granted, I'm reasonably strong. I did forty-five minutes on the exercise bike two nights back. Last night I pushed a five hundred Kg battery on rollers when it was stuck. I even joked on that occasion that there are occasional advantages to being a fat bastard (colloquialism). However, it's pretty fair to say that I don't really have a sideways.

I don't condemn people for being overweight. I don't accept gratuitous and extravagant criticism for being overweight. I don't allow extremes on CS.com. I accept people for what they are.

I'm quite happy to accept people who have one skin thinner than everyone else. However, I'm not allowing them to grind the forum I run into nothing to make them feel better.

So, I don't believe you touched on my suggestion that you start a forum and see what that's like. I know what being overweight's like. Dare I hope you'll try the other side?

Rapscallion

[ladyneeva]

So it is ok to hate people. Got it. And advocating NOT hating people and NOT treating them like shit makes me a bad person.

Good to have that cleared up.

Edit: Also I wasn't comparing people to hippos. I was saying that they would have to be wider than a hippo in order to actually prevent someone behind them from simply stepping 6" to the side and seeing past them.

[Rapscallion]

Ah, the good old putting words in my mouth routine.

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

Actually, no. I'm tall and a fairly big girl, as I said before in my posts that you ignored cuz I was actually debating the topic rather than pandering to paranoia. I could stand in front of quite a few people of small height and build and block their view; and I'm certainly not a hippo. I also have had the experience at the cinema of sitting behind The Person With The Biggest Head In The Entire World. They weren't fat; just large of head and tall. I didn't bother to bitch and tell them to move; I moved myself.

[Boozy]

So it is ok to hate people. Got it. And advocating NOT hating people and NOT treating them like shit makes me a bad person.

:confused:

Who are you debating with? Who said anything like this?

[MaggieTheCat]

Who are you debating with? Who said anything like this?

I really wanna know the answer to this question, too. Please, enlighten us.

[iradney]

So it is ok to hate people. Got it. And advocating NOT hating people and NOT treating them like shit makes me a bad person.

Good to have that cleared up.

Edit: Also I wasn't comparing people to hippos. I was saying that they would have to be wider than a hippo in order to actually prevent someone behind them from simply stepping 6" to the side and seeing past them.

Are you reading the same thread I'm reading?
Are you trying to say that I hate myself? Coz obviously, since I don't agree with you, I hate fat people. And as mentioned before - I'M FAT. it's not an insult, it's a FACT.
I actually think I'm pretty darn awesome - but hey, YOU must be right, so I'll go into the corner and start hating myself immediately.

Once again, I fail to see how pointing out a simple FACT is a hateful action. If I say "That girl is wearing a red dress", am I somehow insulting her?
What if I said "That incredibly tall girl is wearing a red dress"? Pointing out her above-average height is a fact, and not hateful.

Now I say "That blonde girl is wearing a red dress". Taking into account the many jokes and misconceptions about blondes, would you then take it as an insult?

What about "That really skinny girl is wearing a red dress". I know quite a few people who are woefully underweight, one or two due to eating disorders, others due to ridiculously high metabolisms. You have NO IDEA how much they get insulted and ragged on by complete strangers. If they go to the bathroom within one hour of eating, people actually accuse them of going to go throw up. People stop them in the street and ask (with disgust) if they like how they look, and how they should eat. If they're seen eating a full meal, once again, people ask when they're going to throw it up.

But of course, none of this is going to penetrate your skull. You have decided that simply by describing someone as "overweight", we are exhibiting hateful behaviour.

There is a difference between "overweight" and "Fattyfat McFatfat". Just like there's a difference between "blonde" and "bimbo". Or "uneducated" vs "willfully ignorant".

As for not hating people and not treating them like shit - how would you describe your behaviour towards us?
As someone once said "There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see."

[protege]

If I hear one more comment about my "spare tire" from certain relatives...I'm going to fucking hit them. Seriously, what the hell? It's not my fault my metabolism has slowed down, nor is it my fault my job involves me sitting on my ass 9 hours a day. I try to exercise, I really do. But, by the time I get home, I'm tired. At least I get outside, and walk a few blocks during my lunch hour. Usually, down to the bridge, down the alley to the railroad tracks, and then a few blocks back to work.

[blas87]

Have I been that inactive at CS lately that I have missed hundreds of fat bashing threads?

Yeah, I didn't think so. I specifically remember a few months ago, a brand new member started a thread and used terms similar to "hambeast" and other offesnsive to larger people names.....that didn't last long before it was edited out.

[Ree]

Who said anything like this?I think I did.

Yeah, pretty sure I posted and said it was OK to hate because fat people are just disgusting creatures and deserving of contempt.

Oh, wait, I forgot...I'm fat.

Nope...guess it wasn't me.

I am more than a little insulted, though, at the accusations being thrown around against the moderators on the 2 sites.

I think we are very even-handed in how we moderate threads when it comes to "fat" insults.

We try to keep an eye on things, but it really helps a lot if people would report this shit that upsets them, rather than assuming we have all seen it and agree with it, and then start making inane accusations bringing our impartiality into question.

[DesignFox]

<snip>
I actually think I'm pretty darn awesome - but hey, YOU must be right, so I'll go into the corner and start hating myself immediately.
<snip>


I happen to agree that you are awesome and your post made me chuckle. Thank you.


As a general rule, if someone mentions a person's size once in a way we consider to be non-derogatory, then that's setting the scene.

"I was in a queue at the fast food joint, and I could barely see around the huge guy in front of me, but I could hear the SC loud and clear" - perfectly fine.

A post that harps on about someone's weight is going to get trimmed to within an inch of its life. "Land whale," "Hambeast" etc - not going to cut it.

We often get them before people see them, but some (usually from non-moderated posters past the new user moderation) get through, and we don't see them all. Of course, we don't expect someone to have too thin a skin and report anything that could be even remotely offensive. We aim at a middle ground between taking too much offence and giving too much offence.

I can't remember a reported post about weight in some time. Sounds like it's easier to curse the darkness than to light a candle.

Rapscallion

Well, considering the word "huge" could have many connotations, I think it is absolutely a fair description of a person. If Raps hadn't paired that example with the explanation that the word "huge" is an acceptable one as opposed to "Land whale" who says that word has to be describing someone's weight?

I'm incredibly short. Everyone is "huge" to me. Shit, average sized people often block my view. All that was mentioned using that example is that a bigger person was blocking the view of a smaller person. Doesn't necessarily have anything to do with weight...and it doesn't even mean that the "huge" person was the SC!

Stop splitting hairs.

Also, grow a thicker skin. Everyone here has said that it is *not* ok to hate anyone or belittle them. But not being able to describe anything or poke fun? Sheesh. BOOOORING.

I'd rather get offended once in awhile than have to censor every damn word that comes out of my or anyone else's mouth.

Oh, and the Cheetoh reference- not necessarily picking on fat people. That's picking on nerdy people. Although, usually, it's a combination insult. I happen to think it's a hilarious mental image. But I'm willing to accept that I'm going to burn in hell for it, and I don't care. Also, I don't use that insult on people who don't out and out deserve it (i.e. acted disrespectfully to me first to the point that they got me to even care), or strictly in jest between myself and my friends (cause I know it wouldn't hurt their or my feelings).

But, it's a big bad world we live in. Maybe I should just curl up in a ball and cry because someone might make fun of me.

[Nyoibo]

Oh, and the Cheetoh reference- not necessarily picking on fat people. That's picking on nerdy people. Although, usually, it's a combination insult. I happen to think it's a hilarious mental image.

Usually acompanied by the voice in my head either saying "Worst comic ever" or "Oh I've wasted my life" :p