People with outdoor cats should have their pets taken away

[elsporko]

People with outdoor cats do not care about their neighbors or their pets. Outdoor cats frequently cause a vareity of trouble from killing local wildlife, running into streets causing traffic accidents, uncontrolled mating, and destruction of property. In addition outdoor cats have shorter lives, are more prone to illness, injury and attack from larger animals.

In light of these truths you ask yourself "Why would anybody treat an animal and their fellow man to such consequences?" The truth is people with outdoor cats are lazy. It is easier to give into the cats natural desire to want to be outdoors then it is to actually train and care for a cat. They let the cat in when they feel like having it around and the rest of the time the cat is thrown out into the cold.

I think cats found outdoors should be caught by local animal control. Then one of three things happens

1. The cat is found to be feral and is put down.

2. The cat is tame but has no tags or identification tatoo, brought to a shelter. If the owner is found they are given a warning and have to get the animal tattood before bringing it home.

3. The animal has tags. If this is the first time the animal has been picked up then the owner is given a warning. Second time: Owner is charged the cost of catching the animal. Third time: Animal is seized and brought to a shelter. Owner is charged the cost of catching the animal as well as a fee for keeping it in the shelter.

This may sound a bit extreme but I think it is the best way to drive home the fact that animals are living things that shouldn't be ignored and made a problem for other people.

[Lace Neil Singer]

People with outdoor children do not care about their neighbors or their pets. Children frequently cause a vareity of trouble from killing local wildlife, running into streets causing traffic accidents, uncontrolled screaming, and destruction of property.

This may sound a bit extreme but I think it is the best way to drive home the fact that children are living things that shouldn't be ignored and made a problem for other people.

See the problem? All I had to do was swap round a few words in order to create a new issue. There are people who let their children roam around causing mayhem; does your vendetta extend to them, too? Just wondering, cuz round where I am, most people who have outdoor cats have queens and neutered toms who very rarely go beyond next door as far as roaming goes. I haven't heard a single complaint from anyone about cats causing damage... but a lot about children doing so.

[blas87]

Cats killing wildlife?

Ever heard of the foodchain? Oh, poor birdy, poor bunny. Boo hoo. Cats are predators by nature.

FatCat and Baby are indoor cats ever since we moved in '03, but we used to live in a very cat friendly neighborhood by a feedmill at our old house. There were always cats around.....never a mouse in sight. People were glad they didn't get mice in their homes.

[AdminAssistant]

All of my cats growing up were outdoor farmcats. They were well cared for and we never had a mouse problem. (We also grew up in the middle of the country so....there ya go.)

[protege]

Kitty was an outside cat. When he first came to the farm, his duty was to kill the moles, field mice, and other critters that were tearing up the yard or getting into the house. At the time, my grandmother had just returned from the hospital after her auto accident...and didn't walk around very well. She was afraid that she'd trip over him...meaning he was an outside cat. For the most part, he wouldn't leave the farm. Granted, he had 80 acres to play with, but still. What few times he did, he'd only go as far as the neighbor's field across the highway, and that was it. Oddly enough, he'd actually look *both ways* before crossing roads :D

When the farm was sold in 2007, I'd brought him to my house. Too many dogs and idiot drivers meant he was now an inside cat. Never mind that he'd spent the previous 10 years outside...he decided he didn't like being outside, and would get pissed even if he was on the porch!

[elsporko]

Cats killing wildlife?

Ever heard of the foodchain? Oh, poor birdy, poor bunny. Boo hoo. Cats are predators by nature.

FatCat and Baby are indoor cats ever since we moved in '03, but we used to live in a very cat friendly neighborhood by a feedmill at our old house. There were always cats around.....never a mouse in sight. People were glad they didn't get mice in their homes.


So if a woman likes having song birds in her yard, and puts out feeders in her yard, she should have to live with a cat driving the birds she enjoys from her yard because of somebody else's cat? The last time I checked owning a cat doesn't mean everybody around you gives up their right to wildlife. Keep the cat in your yard and let it kill all it wants. I bet if I let a huge dog into your yard and let it attack your cat you wouldn't be saying its okay because of the food chain.




See the problem? All I had to do was swap round a few words in order to create a new issue. There are people who let their children roam around causing mayhem; does your vendetta extend to them, too? Just wondering, cuz round where I am, most people who have outdoor cats have queens and neutered toms who very rarely go beyond next door as far as roaming goes. I haven't heard a single complaint from anyone about cats causing damage... but a lot about children doing so.

You make a good point that similar but unrelated issues exist in the world. I'm pretty sure there are already methods for dealing with unsupervised children.

All of my cats growing up were outdoor farmcats. They were well cared for and we never had a mouse problem. (We also grew up in the middle of the country so....there ya go.)


If they were farmcats then I'm guessing they lived on a farm, which likely was very large without nearby neighbors so only the cats were being harmed in this situation not the neighbors. If you keep the cat on your property its not an issue.

[Cat]

I have no issues with removing unsupervised children
Feed 'em to the cats :D

WHen I was still withe the 'rents, we had quite a few indoor/outdoor cats...the females were ruthless killers....never had a mouse problem. Sadly, we did lose two cats to the road and one (we think) to a coyote. I will NEVER have outdoor cats again, no matter how much land I own. Morgan and Riley are 100% indoor kittehs. I do more for my cats' saftey than any other concerns.

When(if) the bf and I get a place together, we are thinking of building a cat pen, so the cats will be "outside" without truley being outside.

[Lace Neil Singer]

You make a good point that similar but unrelated issues exist in the world. I'm pretty sure there are already methods for dealing with unsupervised children.


Are you sure you're firing at the right target, tho?

http://www.messybeast.com/ukferal.htm

An additional problem is the growing vilification and scapegoating of cats in general. They are blamed for the loss of songbirds, when the prime cause of this is destruction of habitat by humans (farming, house-building and industrial use). It is far easier to blame cats than for humans to modify their own behaviour. Dog owners often revile cats because cats have more freedom to roam and dogs are supposed to be on a leash (in fact Britain has a stray dog population which many dog owners prefer to ignore) or because cats do not show mindless deference to their owners. They are blamed for tearing open bags of rubbish, although foxes, badgers and magpies are just as much to blame for this. A root cause of cat hatred, and of attempts to promote or incite cat hatred, is often the fact that people have contempt for what they cannot control - be it animals or other humans. This means that the perceived problem is much greater than the actual problem. This is further fuelled by poorly researched surveys which set out to prove a "researcher's" foregone conclusion by using inadequate and unrepresentative samples.

[Hobbs]

I love my cat, Pepper. She's an indoor/outdoor cat, and pretty much controls our suburban neighborhood. A lot of our neighbors like her, and she'll visit her 'favorite' houses routinely during the day. She's fixed, so we don't have to worry about her getting pregnant. All in all, she's the most well-behaved cat we have.

[telecom_goddess]

snicker

Lace I love your counterpoints :)

Now as for me I have 2 cats that used to be indoor/outdoor cats. Then I was forced to make them indoor only cats when I moved to a different apt complex. Which results in the the cats SHOOTING their way out the door a couple of times a week cause they want to go outside! I do everything I can to keep them in but damn it's not easy.

I fully believe that cats should be allowed to go outside provided it's safe enough. When my cats when outdoors it wasn't because I "didn't want them around" they wanted to go outside. They came in when they wanted to come in. They need to exercise their natural predator instincts. I'm not saying they should kill birds but they can definitely go after the mice and the pests.

At least in the house mine eat the bugs :D

[Amanita]

Well said, Lace. We have two cats, a male and a female. Both are fixed. The female is primarily an indoor cat, but we do let her go out sometimes. The male is an indoor/outdoor cat- provided it's not raining, freezing, or snow on the ground, we let him have some outdoor time each day. He's got the kind of temperement where he can't stand to be kept inside all the time- he howls to get out, and that cat has lungs! So for his happiness and ours, we let him out to patrol the yard each day. He's an exellent mouser, which helps as well. And yes, we do have a birdfeeder, but we've rigged the post it sits on so that animals like cats and raccoons can't climb it.

As for ripped up bags of trash, in our area the worst offenders for garbage bag shredding are not cats, but crows! And my father and I have humane-trapped and released several raccoons in the last year. Those are far bigger pests than cats.
FWIW, we live in a sub-suburban area. If we were right in the city, the choice to let our cats out would be a different matter altogether. They might be leash trained, or have an enclosure built for them instead.

And I'm also with lace about the cat hatred thing- it seems that a lot of people who hate cats have controlling temperements in general, and don't take kindly to anything which doesn't slavishly follow orders.

[Stormraven]

Our cats are indoor mostly, and outdoor with supervision. We don't let them out every day, but occasionally will give them fifteen to thirty minutes outside, as they choose.

[jedimaster91]

We've got several feral cats in our neighborhood and I've lost track of how many times I've nearly hit one with my car. I know at least one female is not fixed because my hubby nearly ran over her kittens with the lawnmower.

I have the same feelings about outdoor cats as outdoor dogs (heck, my dogs are mostly outside dogs): responsible owners that keep their critters safely in their own yards don't bother me. It's the ones who allow their animals to roam unsupervised where they could get hurt or hurt other animals or people that make me stabby.

[Ree]

See the problem? All I had to do was swap round a few words in order to create a new issue. Are you seriously comparing cats to children? :confused::rolleyes:

Nothing like a bit of apples and oranges to muddy up the debate a bit.

Yes, some children do run and wreak havoc in the neighbourhood, but I really fail to see a valid comparison between that, and someone complaining about people who let their cats roam.

For the record, I keep my cat indoors.
I do not believe in letting cats roam the neighbourhood, and it irks me when people let theirs roam.

Their cats shit in my flower beds and then dig to bury it.
They piss and spray all over anything left outside.
They chew my trash bags and get garbage all over my carport.

The health and safety risks are much higher for an outdoor cat as well.
There is a much higher risk for feline leukemia.

[Lace Neil Singer]

My main point was that where do you draw the line as far as saying "take their *** away from them."? A lot of people say that about kids roaming the streets/mall; I've lost count of the number of CS posts that say exactly that about kids. I wasn't comparing kids to cats; tho I admit I didn't make it quite clear.

[MadMike]

My cats used to go out all the time. Not because I wanted them out. I wasn't crazy about the idea, in fact. My ex was the one who started letting them out. I'd worry about them if they stayed away for a long period of time, but except for the one time one of them got locked in someone's garage by accident, there were never any problems. I eventually found that one, and he was OK, but he needed a batch when I got him home.

Like someone else said, at least one of mine had adopted a second family. She's come home smelling like she had been in front of a fireplace, which we did not have. I never put any of them out because I wanted them out, only when they wanted out. They'd meow out the door, and I'd let them out. They'd come back and meow or scratch at the door or a window, and I'd let them back in. One of mine used to love to come in the bedroom window.

This lasted until the township passed a law against letting your cats out. I was actually somewhat relieved, as I didn't have to worry about anything happening to them anymore, but the cats were not happy. They'd stand there meowing at the door, unable to understand why I wasn't letting them out.

Oh and for the record, all of my cats were fixed.

[HYHYBT]

My cats have their own door, and come and go as they please. They are vaccinated and fixed; no worry about them spraying, catching feline leukemia, or having kittens. I've never seen either of them cross the street, or even go near it unless following me; mostly they lie around the driveway or go into the woods "next door", bothering nobody either way. Both are in perfect health; my previous cat did, it's true, die at the age of six but that was cancer, and the one before was 17 or 18 (and also cancer) so I doubt the lifestyle is unhealthy in this location. It's true that if I shut them in the house I wouldn't, for example, have found a wounded bat in my shoe the other day, but they wouldn't like it and, though I know they'd probably hide instead of leaving anyway, I couldn't stand the thought of their being locked in when i'm not there in case of fire.

And, while I'm not by any means a violent man, well, harming or removing my cats would be the surest way of changing that.

[elsporko]

Are you sure you're firing at the right target, tho?

http://www.messybeast.com/ukferal.htm


I'll match your article written by some random person on a pro cat website and raise you one written by a government agency that deals with animals from the NPR website.

http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/04/08_galballye_cathunting/

According to researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, feral cats prey heavily on wildlife. They eat a lot of birds -- about eight million every year.

The article was about a proposed law to allow hunting of feral cats in Minnesota because they are such a nuisance.


He's got the kind of temperement where he can't stand to be kept inside all the time- he howls to get out, and that cat has lungs! So for his happiness and ours

The defining argument for outdoor cats "But taking care of my cat properly is really hard. Its easier if we just let him do whatever and not care about the consequences for the cat or neighbors."

Let's do the cats are kids trick. If a kid howled until you did something for him would that be okay?

And I'm also with lace about the cat hatred thing- it seems that a lot of people who hate cats have controlling temperements in general, and don't take kindly to anything which doesn't slavishly follow orders.

I've got a cat and rabbits, so thats not me. I don't take kindly to people who don't take proper care of their pets and are inconsiderate.


I doubt the lifestyle is unhealthy in this location. It's true that if I shut them in the house I wouldn't, for example, have found a wounded bat in my shoe the other day

http://www.cdc.gov/Rabies/bats.html

Most of the recent human rabies cases in the United States have been caused by rabies virus from bats.


Lots of bats have rabies, your cats could have been exposed while attacking the bat.

[protege]

We don't get many bats out in the 'burbs :p But, when the kitty was still at the farm, bats were constant--the attic alone had *hundreds* :eek:

But, one cat that was never allowed outside, was Snow. I wasn't about to put my deaf cat in danger! She was always inside, and sometimes wasn't too happy about it--she wanted to chase the birds outside :p Still had to be careful though--she'd been in the garage once, and tended to hide under the car.

[Lace Neil Singer]

A feral cat is not a pet cat, just so you know. Feral cats are cats that are living wild without homes; the main problem is with people feeding them. Pet cats that go outside don't cause damage as a general rule, any more than foxes, crows, raccoons etc do and a lot less. Are you going to extend your cat campaign to include those, too? Especially if a fox gets into your garden and kills your rabbit.

[elsporko]

I think any pet should be kept under control whether it be a cat, fox raccoon or elephant.

The reason we have feral cats is because cats are let out of the home and breed or they are let out of the home and just never come back, not to mention the fact that the only differance between feral cats and outdoor cats sometimes come home. When they are gone they might as well be feral cats.

You say pet cats don't cause damage but how do you know? You don't watch your cats after letting them out, all you do is throw them out the door and do something easier and more entertaining then taking care of your pet.

[Cats]

Lots of bats have rabies, your cats could have been exposed while attacking the bat.


You do realize there exists a vaccine for that which is given as standard during the yearly checkup by the vet, right?


And birds have wings, cats don't. We have birds everywhere, and they all are well aware of predators in the area, and will fly away when danger may come. Cats tend to only go after things they may hunt with some degree of success. Rodents are in 1,000x more danger than birds are (and are far more likely to carry disease).




I live on a dead end street on top of a hill, in an area that easily fits the stereotypical white picket fence neighborhood. Several people have cats, most of them outdoor. Most of them don't have ID tags, but we all know which cat belongs to what family, and they tend not to venture more than a house or two away from home, and no one has seen or heard of any evidence of the local cats destroying property (and I've lived here for 20 years). All of them are fixed before they are even allowed to step one foot outside.

One of my cats doesn't care for the outside much, while the other LOVES it. One day, yes, she did get hurt (it happens, humans get hurt too), and had to be quarentined inside for a month. Lasted 2 weeks (vet OK'd it since she was healing okay), since she loves it outdoors so much it was TORTURE to have her cooped up. She gets played with inside as well, but she had other needs we cannot satisfy, namely the need for fresh air and to roam freely. She is a CAT, not a furry little human. By nature, she is a territorial predator, not a trained house puppet. My other cat may be a human in a cat's body (she seriously acts like it), but most cats aren't like that. A responsible pet owner takes care of their cat's physical AND mental/emotional needs (while taking any risks into consideration). If my cat is a healthier happier kitty because she can roam outside, then so be it. Yes, there are occasionally coyotes in summer and the raccoons. But you know what? They are not allowed out before morning twilight, and are in by evening twilight to minimize that risk.


Now if the area around isn't safe (such as in a heavy traffic area), yes I do agree the cat should not be a free outdoors cat. My parents once had a cat that they couldn't let out in the open, but they had a fenced in yard and put the cat on a run when it went outside. Handy compromise.


I can understand the argument against cats being outdoors, but the second someone says my cats should be taken away for that reason alone, is, IMO, crossing a line into blind ignorance.

[elsporko]

And birds have wings, cats don't. We have birds everywhere, and they all are well aware of predators in the area, and will fly away when danger may come.


I think I'll have to go with the Minnesota DNR on this one who reports over 8 million birds being killed by cats in that state, which is pretty good evidence that cats catch birds. I don't know if maybe it was a fluke, one paticularly sneaky cat got 8 million birds by itself while they were all asleep or what, but thats the numbers.


If my cat is a healthier happier kitty because she can roam outside, then so be it

Healthier in the sense that being exposed to disease, physical danger, and having a shorter life expectancy is shorter. Its almost as if...

since she loves it outdoors so much it was TORTURE to have her cooped up

ah, the part where letting the cat out is easier then keeping it in. I wonder why this keeps coming up as an argument for letting cats come outside. Imagine using it while trying to get out of a parking ticket, "No officer I'm not handicap, but parking in the handicap stop is easier."



And I'm still waiting for somebody to give a decent argument as to why your wants as a cat owner trumps the rights of property owners who don't want cats on their property? Would you be fine if somebody let a dog run loose around your house or parked a car on your grass? Why does having a cat make you immune to respecting other people's property?

[Cats]

ah, the part where letting the cat out is easier then keeping it in. I wonder why this keeps coming up as an argument for letting cats come outside. Imagine using it while trying to get out of a parking ticket, "No officer I'm not handicap, but parking in the handicap stop is easier."

I fail to see how letter her out is "easier". She's in an out constantly, meaning we as a family have to communicate and keep tabs on her wherabouts (she's more high maintenance than my other cat, who DOESN'T go out by choice). Yes, it is far "easier" to have to keep track of how long she has been outside, check on her frequently, call her in to eat or if it starts to rain or it's getting dark. Playing inside only does so much for her. She has plenty of toys and is played with everyday. Sometimes when she goes out, it's only to pee. Yes we have a litter box, but she doesn't like to use it. Besides, a litter box itself holds dangers too (have you ever read the warnings about pregnant women and litter boxes?)

You have never met this cat, its very easy to see when she's happy and playful, and when she's upset. If you watch their behavior, you'll find out pets have some emotions in common with humans. Do you let a crying child sit there, or do you find out what's wrong first and try to fix the problem? She does out because she likes the fresh air and open space that you can't get from a house. She has gotten hurt maybe once every 2 years, which is far less often than I have gotten sick or hurt, and I'm not even outside nearly as often as she is. You can't spend your whole life inside because of a small risk. The outdoors is not a horrible place for every creature out there. There is danger out there yes, just as there is danger inside. The creatures on this planet need to LIVE, not just spend it in fear of something that MIGHT happen. You do what you can to minimize those risks, but no one is completely invulnerable. It should also be worth noting, than one of my neighbors has had more than one outdoor cat live to the age of 18+. The local cats are all fixed, vaccinated, have tick/flea repellant, checked frequently, and are not allowed outside before dawn or after dusk. And when they do get hurt, usually it's from a squabble with one of the other pet cats (which is not much worse than a child falling down and scraping their knees and elbows. Perhaps were should get rid of all the pavement and bicycles too, as well as shoelaces. You never know when you might trip on them and fall and hurt yourself on accident).



I tried to look up the DNR thing, and sorry, but I ain't buying what they say. I don't think my cat kills enough in a YEAR (and she goes out everyday when there is good weather) to meet some of the average stats they say, and 99.9% of what she kills isn't even birds (and before you say she's a danger to wildlife, she is less of a danger to small birds and rodents than the nearby red tail hawk pair or the local owls are).



And did you miss the part where I mentioned NEVER, in 20 years, have ANY of the local neighbors complained about cats on their property (and it's been the same people living there for 20-30 years)? You'd think by now if someone had a problem, they would say something. Occasionally, we have had one of the neighbor's dogs get loose. You know what we do? We help them find the dog, and in one case, my parents cared for one all day when the owner was at work. No one complains, because we know it can happen. As responsible pet owners, there is a silent understanding that we help another pet owner in need. People can't park on my lawn because they don't have permission. BUT THE CATS DO HAVE PERMISSION TO CROSS A NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. Let me make that clear again: THE NEIGHBORS DO NOT MIND IN THE SLIGHTEST IF A CAT OF WHOM THEY KNOW THE OWNER, SITS IN THEIR YARD. It's not trespassing if permission is granted. If someone complained, then yes, of course we would take that into consideration when letting a cat out. But we're not going to spend time fixing a problem that doesn't exist for us. Besides, do I have the right to shoot down the blue jays who nest in my spruce tree because are on my property and poop on the cars? Or the white tailed deer who eat our plants? They cause a lot more damage than the cats do. Let's shoo them away as well.




If all the vets within a 10 mile radius as well as animal control don't have an issue with cats being outside so long as they are no complaints (which there aren't in my area) and the cats are otherwise in good health (which they are), and the neighbors don't mind (which they don't) the local wildlife isn't threatened (see my previous line about how my cats pale in comparasin to other local predators), then tell me, what's the problem?




There are more laws about cleaning up after your dog than there are against cats being outside, provided they are properly vaccinated and tagged in some cases.

[elsporko]

Do you let a crying child sit there, or do you find out what's wrong first and try to fix the problem?

Dad: What's wrong son?

Child: I want to drive the car

Dad: But you're only six

Child: If I don't get my way then I will cry

Dad: Well, you might not get hurt and I definitely can't deal with you crying, so here are the keys. To make it safe I'm not going to watch you, this way I can deny that you do anything wrong. Of course you didn't run over the neighbors fence, after all, I didn't see it while I wasn't watching you.

This government agency says six year olds shouldn't drive. I don't believe them. After all its only their job, they certainly don't know as much as me. After all I'm the one not paying attention to my kid.

[HYHYBT]

According to researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, feral cats prey heavily on wildlife. They eat a lot of birds -- about eight million every year.FERAL cats. As in, cats that do not have a food dish, among other differences. Mine mostly bring in lizards, the kind that are about six inches long, and they don't even eat those; they'd probably even live if they weren't trapped in the house.

Yes, bats do often have rabies. Especially those that a cat is able to catch. That, among other reasons, is why, as I said in that very same post, I keep them vaccinated against everything the vet has a shot for. I *was* a bit worried about it biting *me,* though. But it didn't, and if it had I'd rather take the shots myself than make my cats stay indoors all the time. By the way, why do you equate "I let the cat out because he likes it" with "I let the cat out because it's easier?" It would be much easier on me to keep them in; closing the hole in the wall would have been simpler than replacing the worn-out cat door, I wouldn't have to deal with the dead lizards and the occasional mouse or mole anymore, and I wouldn't have to treat them for fleas, etc. every month. But they love the outdoors, even when it's raining, so I won't take that away from them without good cause. Would *you* like to be shut up in the house for the rest of your life?

The reason we have feral cats is because cats are let out of the home and breed or they are let out of the home and just never come back, not to mention the fact that the only differance between feral cats and outdoor cats sometimes come home. When they are gone they might as well be feral cats.My cats are fixed: regardless of where they spend their time, they will not breed at all short of a rather pointless miracle. And again, a large difference in how they behave when they're outside is that they not only have a food dish in the house, but prefer Cat Chow to all other foods.

And I'm still waiting for somebody to give a decent argument as to why your wants as a cat owner trumps the rights of property owners who don't want cats on their property? Would you be fine if somebody let a dog run loose around your house or parked a car on your grass? Why does having a cat make you immune to respecting other people's property?Multiple answers to this one. First, cats are simply not like dogs. They are very unlikely to bite you, chew your laundry, leave mess in your yard (they bury it), harm your outdoor pets, if any, etc. Nor are they like cars, which get in the way, leave tracks in the yard, and, if left long enough, kill the grass. So not nearly as many people object to them as object to loose dogs. If my neighbor were to complain about my cats, then I'd probably start keeping them in. But since the cats don't cross the street or the creek, there's only one relevant neighbor, and he *likes* cats. So why should you or anybody else tell me I can't let them go where they're welcome?

[HYHYBT]

Sorry, that reminded me of a story (which isn't terribly on-point and I'll probably mess up anyway, but oh well.) About ten years ago, yet another in a long string of short-term neighbors moved into the house next to Mom's. And proceeded to complain about her cats being on his property. Grouchy fellow in many ways, and I'm glad never to have met him. Anyway, Mom started keeping her cats in the house. One day she was outside, and he came over. Conversation proceeded roughly like this:

Grouch: "Your cat's been in my yard again."
Mom: "No he hasn't. They've been inside for weeks."
G: "No he's not, he's right there!"
M: "That's not my cat."
G: "Yes he is! He's on your porch!"
M: "Yes, but he's still not my cat. I don't know whose he is."

Etc., etc. Guy never did get the concept that anyone could possibly *not* object to someone else's cat sitting harmlessly on their property.

[tabbyblack13]

I have both indoor and feral cats here. I admit I have tried my best to neuter and spay as many as I can but I am only one person with limited resources. I honestly wish that there were no cats outside.

That said I live in a rural area with a lot of wildlife here including but not limited to coyotes, cougars, and bobcats. Many feral and outdoor cats lose there life to these predators so if the cats eat a few birds I don't mind. I have bird feeders on my property and that also attracts rodents. Rodents will attract rattle snakes to my yard. I do not want rattle snakes in my yard and I will do what ever it takes to discourage them from entering it.

Besides have you ever watched cats hunt? They don't always get there pray. I have acctually witnessed one of the feral cats miss a bird and go face first in to a metal bird feeder. I have also witnessed birds attack cats too. There are also neighbors here that want the feral cats around to take care of the morning doves here. But when a cat is the size of a morning dove and the doves are not that dumb then that is really funny. I don't think a cat has acctually gotten one of the dove yet.

I have also turned in 4 abandoned kittens that were left at my house to the human society too. The problem I have here is that no one seems to care about animals here except for a few people.

[Fashion Lad!]

When I was growing up in a smaller neighborhood we had 3 cats. Those 3 cats would be let out in the morning because they wanted out and would come back before it got dark. Not once did one of those cats spend the night outside because they always came back before sunset. They all looked both ways before crossing the road. Princess (our all white cat) kept the neighborhood free from rats and moles, Mikki and Max were great on bats. They lived to be 17, 16 and 17 respectively. Yes, they caught wildlife, but hell, what carnivore in nature hasn't?

[fireheart17]

I have two cats: both indoor, however we do let them out while they're supervised. Generally, as long as they stay within the confines of the fence, they aren't going to be brought in. If they catch birds, we bring them in. We don't stop them-that's normal animal behaviour, tamed or not. Humans hunt, cats hunt, dogs hunt...

But here's something to think about: most RESPONSIBLE pet owners tend to desex their cats. Unlike a dog, a cat doesn't need its dignity nearly as much. Desexing tends to remove their tendency to roam. What about feral cats? They don't have homes.

Any more points that people would like to make? Maybe we should remove the right for people to have pets altogether, if it's said that outdoor pet owners are stupid and irresponsible.

[Lace Neil Singer]

The local cats are all fixed, vaccinated, have tick/flea repellant, checked frequently, and are not allowed outside before dawn or after dusk.

Same here. My old cat, which died of renal failure last year, was only injured once during her entire life of thirteen years when she was a kitten and the tomcat over the road attacked her. Said people were slammed by everyone and forced to get their tomcat neutered. My new cat, who lives at my parents' house, is same as the old cat spayed, vaccinated, fleaed, wormed and also microchipped. She only ever stays in the garden; she doesn't go any further than that. The old cat only ever went as far as next door on the left; the right hand people had a dog. Both cats; very distinctive in colouring. The old cat was grey, white and ginger; the new cat is a calico. And nope; not a single complaint about damage. Round my way, it's urban foxes that do the most damage; people are always complaining about them running in front of cars. But then, a witch hunt against urban foxes wouldn't work, would it, cuz there's no owners to penalise.

[Ree]

I was discussing this thread with a good friend who just happens to do feline rescue.

She brought up these points to me as arguments for not allowing cats to roam free.

1) Just because your can't hasn't been killed or maimed doesn't mean it doesn't, won't, can't happen.
2) There is some debate as to how effective the FeLuk vaccine is. Considering it's a 100% death sentence and so easily communicable (sharing food and water dishes for example) is it worth the risk?
3) Other diseases like FIV there are no vaccines for.
4) I live in a city of 500,000 people. Animal control puts down between 200 & 500 cats and kittens 2-3 times per week. If an animal is not claimed within 3 days (72 hours) and not taken by a local shelter (that are all full up), it's destroyed.
5) One un-spayed female can be responsible for 42,000 offspring in 5 years *http://www.animalcrusaders.ca/pet-care/
6) of the 9 cats that live full-time in my house who were ALL outdoor cats. Only one tries to get out. And he just happens to be a jerk.

I am pretty confident that my friend knows what she's talking about.

[elsporko]

Unfortunately facts from experts aren't valued as highly as eye witness accounts like "The 20 seconds I saw my cat outside before it was out of my line of site I didn't see it do anything bad so that means it never does anything bad."

I'm still not seeing any arguments as to why the wants of cat owners trump the rights of property owners other then people saying everybody loves their cats, which I highly doubt. Unless you personally ask everybody who lives in a several mile radius then your only basing this on the fact that people probably don't know who the annoying cat belongs to.

[Fashion Lad!]

Unfortunately facts from experts aren't valued as highly as eye witness accounts like "The 20 seconds I saw my cat outside before it was out of my line of site I didn't see it do anything bad so that means it never does anything bad."

I'm still not seeing any arguments as to why the wants of cat owners trump the rights of property owners other then people saying everybody loves their cats, which I highly doubt. Unless you personally ask everybody who lives in a several mile radius then your only basing this on the fact that people probably don't know who the annoying cat belongs to.

I think you like taking arguments to absolutes and then you act bewildered how anyone can be so wrong. You also seemed to be confused on the difference between a feral cat and my little meow mix junkies. Of course a feral cat is going to prey heavily on wildlife because that's all they have. It'd be like if someone abandoned their dog or a wild dog. They also go prey on wildlife. It's all they have and they have to eat.

You seem to also forget that even while they are our pets, their first instinct is centuries old. It's ingrained in them. It will not go away. Oh, and when I gave the example of my 3 cats when I was a kid, our neighbors *LOVED* them. One neighbor would feed my cat walleye that he caught. Several others would say they just loved how they could watch our cats catch bats that were flying in the air.

If anyone, and I do mean anyone suggests that I don't or didn't love my cats because I let them outside really needs to re-evaluate that argument. I love and loved my cats. I guarantee that if anyone took one my cats based on the argument that I didn't love them because I let them outside, they'd meet my fist in a rather unpleasant way. My cats are like family. You don't get to judge *everyone* based on an argument that relies heavily on the study of feral cats just because you want cat *owners* to re-evaluate how they care for their pets.

Cats can be pets and cats can be feral. They cannot be feral pet cats.

[Cats]

I was discussing this thread with a good friend who just happens to do feline rescue.

She brought up these points to me as arguments for not allowing cats to roam free.

1) Just because your can't hasn't been killed or maimed doesn't mean it doesn't, won't, can't happen.
2) There is some debate as to how effective the FeLuk vaccine is. Considering it's a 100% death sentence and so easily communicable (sharing food and water dishes for example) is it worth the risk?
3) Other diseases like FIV there are no vaccines for.
4) I live in a city of 500,000 people. Animal control puts down between 200 & 500 cats and kittens 2-3 times per week. If an animal is not claimed within 3 days (72 hours) and not taken by a local shelter (that are all full up), it's destroyed.
5) One un-spayed female can be responsible for 42,000 offspring in 5 years *http://www.animalcrusaders.ca/pet-care/
6) of the 9 cats that live full-time in my house who were ALL outdoor cats. Only one tries to get out. And he just happens to be a jerk.

I am pretty confident that my friend knows what she's talking about.


While I do understand exactly what you/your friend mean, but to flip the coin, the same could be said about human beings, but that doesn't stop us from going outside and interacting with others and engaging in sexual intercourse, all of which expose us to disease and can add to the population (though I admit cats breed much faster than humans, but that is why we get them fixed). We take precausions to help prevent it, true, but it doesn't make invulnerable or keep us from going about our daily lives.

I mean, just because I haven't been hit by a car and injured/killed in a crosswalk, doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. There's actually a much higher chance of THAT happening than my cats getting run over or serverly hurt or killed outside. But yet, that doesn't stop me from walking places and using crosswalks when I have the right of way. Yes, there is a chance my cat may get hurt/sick outside (hell, it can happen inside too). But the same goes for me as well. Life in general has risks and consequences, and the best we can do is to minimize those risks while still satisfying our needs. It's a game of balance, and while we all don't agree on everything, as long as the subject in question is happy and healthy regardless, I personally don't see a problem.


I'm still not seeing any arguments as to why the wants of cat owners trump the rights of property owners other then people saying everybody loves their cats, which I highly doubt. Unless you personally ask everybody who lives in a several mile radius then your only basing this on the fact that people probably don't know who the annoying cat belongs to.

No one has said the rights of their cat trump property rights. We're saying that if the neighbors do not mind in the slightest, then there isn't a problem. If permission is granted, then rights are not being violated. In fact, that's how laws and rules are supposed to work. If you're allowed to do something (or your cat is), and you do it, there's no problem whatsoever. If you're not allowed and do it, THEN there is a problem. But I've said several times that the neighbors don't mind at all if the cats go in their yard. Our yard is open up to the neighbors cats as well. In 20 years, I don't think I've ever heard of a single complaint about someone's pet roaming in a yard. Considering there is always at least 3+ cats at any given time throughout that period, along with a handful of dogs (who occasionally get loose on accident), that's a pretty damn good track record.

I don't see why I need to ask people in a several mile radius. My cats never go more than 30 yards from the house (and YES, I WATCH THEM). That only covers 2-3 of my neighbors, none of which who mind (are you getting that part yet? That the neighbors don't mind and permission has been granted?)

Some people don't want cats in their yard, and a good pet owner will respect that. But I don't HAVE that problem in my immediate neighborhood. Everyone knows which cat belongs to whom, so if there ever IS a problem (which there never has been), everyone knows who owns it. Not everyone around hates cats. Some people do, but the people around here who live in the radius of my cat's wandering areas DO NOT. They all know which cat belongs to what family. And if you don't believe me, then I dare you to come to my neighborhood and ask them all yourself, and then if you're still not satisfied with that, then take my pets away (nevermind that I could sue you for it, since animal control nor any vets has no complaints on them and legally you would have no bearing), and take care of them yourself.

[Lace Neil Singer]

I know full well that my cat doesn't go far; it's called ASKING THE NEIGHBOURS. My parents TALK to their neighbours and everyone in the little cul-de-sac where they live. Only the neighbours already mentioned ever saw the old cat; and no-one sees the new cat. She sticks to the garden cuz she was abused by her old owners and she's a bit nervous. She might decide to go further if she ever gets over that, but since she's a queen, it's unlikely she'll go any further than the neighbours on that side.

The people on the other side don't like cats, but seeing as they own a big slobbery dog, I really doubt that any cat worth its salt is going to venture there. Once again I will point out the fact that since the old cat and new cat were coloured pretty distinctively, everyone knew who they belonged to. Only problem we had with the old cat was her begging for food at the neighbour's house; we put a stop to that by asking them not to feed her cuz she was getting four meals a day instead of two. Never did they complain about damage done. Yeah, their bin got knocked over a couple of times, but it wasn't our cat. How so? Well, firstly a wheely bin is a bit big for a cat to knock over, even a small one as they had; and second, they saw the foxes attack it the second time. After that, they put stones at the bottom to stop them.

[Amanita]

The cat that "I don't care about" and "Can't be bothered with" is curled up happily on my bed at the moment, not more than six feet away from me. He's been there most of the day, the little rascal:) Yes, he gets an hour or two of outdoor time each day, when the weather is good. He only gets outdoor time during daylight, never at night. No, we have not had any complaints from the neighbors (who we know) about any bad behavior on his part. I'm sure that if he were causing trouble, somebody would have told us by now, considering we've had him for 9 freaking years already, and this is another neighborhood where people have a pretty good idea of what animal belongs to which house. If anything, I've seen dogs on the loose do much more damage in regards to property and trashbags. That and wild raccoons, which my dad has trapped several of. (humane traps- we practice catch and release).

[Boozy]

My mother's garden has been dug up and shat in by her neighbour's cat.

The finches she enjoys watching in her backyard have been killed by another neighbour's (well-fed) cat.

My father has lost about five chickens in the last year to his neighbour's (again, well-fed) cats.

My neighbour's cat has destroyed the screen on my ground level window.

If I let my dogs get away with that kind of shit, my neighbours would have called animal control ages ago. And they would have been well within their rights to do so.

[elsporko]

That couldn't have been cats Boozy. Apparently all cats that run wild never cause any damage and are beloved by all who see them, and instantly know who the owner of the cat is because apparently everybody knows who all cats belong to. Must have to do with loving the cats so much.


And feral cats and house cats are the same thing when they are outside unsupervised. They behave the same way, cause the same destruction, and most feral cats were either house cats that never went home or the litter of house cats.

[Wingates_Hellsing]

My mother's garden has been dug up and shat in by her neighbour's cat.

The finches she enjoys watching in her backyard have been killed by another neighbour's (well-fed) cat.

My father has lost about five chickens in the last year to his neighbour's (again, well-fed) cats.

My neighbour's cat has destroyed the screen on my ground level window.

If I let my dogs get away with that kind of shit, my neighbours would have called animal control ages ago. And they would have been well within their rights to do so.

Did you call animal control on them?

[Amanita]

That couldn't have been cats Boozy. Apparently all cats that run wild never cause any damage and are beloved by all who see them, and instantly know who the owner of the cat is because apparently everybody knows who all cats belong to. Must have to do with loving the cats so much.

I can't speak for the others, but I was describing circumstances in OUR neighborhood, not everyone's. In our area, many of us know each other, and have known each other for a long time. So we know each other's pets too. Nowhere did I say that this was true in all neighborhoods- goddess knows that there are plenty of places where the neighbors all keep to themselves and don't have that relationship.

I can't speak for everyone here, but my (fixed) tomcat only gets a couple of hours outside, max. And then he WANTS back in- he gets rewarded in kitty treats for coming back inside in timely fashion, so he has incentive to stay close to home. IMHO, there's a difference between being let out for a short period of time, and being out unsupervised all day long.

ElSporko, I've been trying to be civil here. But reading your posts here and in many other topics, I've noticed a real trend of sarcasm, snarkiness, and hyperbole that IMHO, damages whatever points you're trying to make. When the snark begins to overwhelm the message, perhaps it's time to tone it down.

Boozy, if you and your parent's neighbors know which cats are doing this, have you called animal control, or talked to the neighbors whose cats are doing this? If the neighbors don't know what's happening, they can't move to fix it. And if they do know, but don't care, then perhaps it's time for some outside help.

[HYHYBT]

My mother's garden has been dug up and shat in by her neighbour's cat.

The finches she enjoys watching in her backyard have been killed by another neighbour's (well-fed) cat.

My father has lost about five chickens in the last year to his neighbour's (again, well-fed) cats.

My neighbour's cat has destroyed the screen on my ground level window.If, when you told your neighbors about this, they did nothing, then they are indeed bad neighbors and irresponsible pet owners.That couldn't have been cats Boozy. Apparently all cats that run wild never cause any damage and are beloved by all who see them, and instantly know who the owner of the cat is because apparently everybody knows who all cats belong to. Must have to do with loving the cats so much. NOBODY in this thread has made those claims except you.And feral cats and house cats are the same thing when they are outside unsupervised. They behave the same way, cause the same destruction, and most feral cats were either house cats that never went home or the litter of house cats.Feral cats generally are descendants of pets that have been abandoned. Try interacting with them sometime; they behave differently from both cared-for pets and strays that used to belong to someone. Unfortunately, entirely too many people see pets as disposable, and dump them somewhere when they tire of them, or can't keep them anymore, or move away. Some even leave them trapped in their old now-vacant home.

[Fashion Lad!]

I don't think anyone claimed that their animal was absolutely always perfect. (If you're going to point out other people's posts, make sure they're using an absolute like how I did). And I'm sure that anyone would admit that their cat has problem done some things that people would frown upon, even while being outside and supervised. Because, let's face it, unless you're staring at your cat 100% of the time, they're quick enough to do something they shouldn't be doing. They're quick enough to kill another animal or dig up a garden.

I did mention that my neighbors liked the fact that my three cats played pest control on the block. I lived in a really small neighborhood. I don't think that anyone even really had a garden in my neighborhood. If they did have a garden, I didn't see it or I don't remember it. And as I've said before, I know my cats killed other critters, at the same time a large majority of those critters were considered pests. My cats were well cared for and well fed. But they still did what thousands of years of existence tells them to do.

[Boozy]

Whether or not I called animal control is almost beside the point. The point is that well-fed housecats can cause a great deal of damage unsupervised.

As it would happen, my mom did talk to her neighbour. But she had to lose several expensive plants first. I also talked to my neighbour about my destroyed window screen, but I had to lose the screen first.

It's just amazing to me that either of us had to tell someone not to leave their unsupervised and unpenned animals roaming around the neighbourhood. How is this not common sense? Why did they wait until their animals pissed someone off to start behaving responsibly?

[Ree]

My Mom feeds her cats quite well, but she lives in the country and lets them roam outside.

I can't count the number of times she has told me they brought little "presents" to her doorstep, or even in the house, in the form of dead birds and chipmunks and other various defenseless wildlife.

Yeah, it's great that they keep the rodents and destructive little buggers in check, but it irks me that the beautiful little birds have to suffer in there.

There are a lot of fishers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_%28animal%29) in my Mom's area, and I worry that the cats will get killed.

While I do understand exactly what you/your friend mean, but to flip the coin, the same could be said about human beingsGood grief...yet another irrelevant reversal of the situation to compare it with human behaviour.

Pssst....here's a secret...cats are NOT humans, so putting that mindset to it is rather ridiculous.

Yeah, humans have accidents and get hurt too, but for the most part, a human has much better reasoning skills and thought processes to know when a situation is dangerous.

Humans are larger and more readily seen than a small cat weighing only a few pounds.

Cats have a lot more natural predators in a normal outdoor environment than humans do.

While I don't agree with the reasoning that people who let their cats roam don't love their pets or deserve to have them taken away, I still don't feel personally that I am a responsible pet owner if I let my cat loose outside.

I know the statistics and I have seen the results of cats roaming free, and I personally do not want that for my cat.

I can present the facts to others and alert them to the problems and risks of allowing their cats to roam, but I will not condemn them if they choose to ignore those facts.

All I can hope is that their kitties continue to stay safe.

I do know I am sick and tired of cats roaming all over my neighbourhood unchecked while dogs are snatched up immediately by animal control and hauled away. The bylaws even specifically mention dogs but say nothing about cats.

[protege]

Whether or not I called animal control is almost beside the point. The point is that well-fed housecats can cause a great deal of damage unsupervised.

Yep, they can. Mine will spend hours chasing each other around. Doing that, they'll knock over lamps, anything on the table, dishes in the sink, etc. But, at least they're no longer attempting to "climb" the window screens or my drapes :eek:

[Cats]

I can present the facts to others and alert them to the problems and risks of allowing their cats to roam, but I will not condemn them if they choose to ignore those facts.

All I can hope is that their kitties continue to stay safe.


And that's all I'm really asking. You may not agree, and that's fine. The concerns and risks are real regardless, and a responsible pet owner does the best they can to minimize them. Some places are safer than others, but no creature is 100% safe at all times, indoors or out.

While it can be dangerous outside for kitties (or they can be destructive), one has to consider the benefits as well. One of my cats doesn't care for the outside, while the other loves just running around in the grass chasing bugs. When we had to keep her cooped up inside for a few weeks on vets orders, it was very clear that she was stressed. Outside has a chance for her to get hurt, yes, but with her personality, keeping her inside at all times is a guarantee of her becoming depressed (inside play helps, but it's not the same).


Not all cats (or neighbors) fit into the same box. While it is generally safer to keep kitties inside, one has to look at the risks and benefits and the personality and needs of the cat in question on a case-by-case basis.

[Amanita]

^THIS. I couldn't agree more.

[Greenday]

Because a cat obviously needs the entire neighborhood to roam. Watching them in your backyard would definitely be too much trouble. I have to agree with the main argument here against cats being allowed to do whatever they want with no control over them. If I let my dog loose on the neighborhood, I'd be a bad owner and I'd get in trouble. But it's perfectly okay for a cat to be let loose on the neighborhood?

And people who let their cats outside for the day don't watch their pets. You let your cat out, then at the end of the day you wait for your cat to come back in. You have absolutely NO idea where your cat ventures each day. So if a neighbor was to actually tell you to keep your cat off their property, you have no way of stopping your cat since you know you will not be spending the entire day, every day outside with your cat. At least with my dog, I can let him out back and not have to worry about whose yards he's messing with.

[Lace Neil Singer]

And that's all I'm really asking. You may not agree, and that's fine. The concerns and risks are real regardless, and a responsible pet owner does the best they can to minimize them. Some places are safer than others, but no creature is 100% safe at all times, indoors or out.

Exactly this. Reading this thread made me think of a couple of stories of cruelty by people poisoning cats, who obviously hated the cats roaming their neighbourhood. While this is an extreme reaction by obviously sick individuals, it's still worth mentioning.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2514965/Cat-killer-poisons-18-pets-in-Bridgwater.html

There are better ways of keeping cats out of your back yard; obviously, it would be preferable to not have them there, but still better. Hope the following link helps those who are troubled by cats:

http://ezinearticles.com/?30-Tips-To-Keep-Cats-Out-Of-Your-Garden&id=598141

Finally, in the UK anyway, if a driver runs over a dog, they HAVE to report it. However, they don't have to report hitting a cat, so the argument about dogs vs cats cuts both ways. Just thought I'd throw that in there. ;)

[Bloodsoul]

Our present feline is strictly an indoor cat; I've taken him outside a few times to wander around the yard while I watched him, but after he slipped through the old fence and into a neighbor's yard I've since stopped doing this. He seems fine with being indoors, though, and probably gets his adventures from wandering around the attic.

Probably nice that my parents screened in their porch so that their cats can't get away quite as easily. Growing up we did have an indoor/outdoor cat that lived a fair life, though.

That couldn't have been cats Boozy. Apparently all cats that run wild never cause any damage and are beloved by all who see them, and instantly know who the owner of the cat is because apparently everybody knows who all cats belong to. Must have to do with loving the cats so much.

What you think is a good cat is actually Tex-Mex.

[BookstoreEscapee]

I've only skimmed the thread, but..


Why return Community (ie, feral) Cats after they are trapped? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2R9rmsztE8)

My first cat was an indoor/outdoor cat. He showed up in our driveway one day and refused to be scared away. My mom took pity on him after a few days and put out food, and made him a little bed on the porch (it was January). He gradually worked his way into the house. She took him to the vet to make sure he was healthy, and when no one answered the lost cat ad she decided to keep him. Over a few months he went from not being allowed in the house when no one was home to not being allowed out of the house when no one was home. He was very sweet, definitely not feral, and fixed; I have no idea if someone dumped him or if he was lost or what. But since he was a stray to begin with, he never became a completely indoor cat. I don't know how far he roamed, but he did spend a lot of time on our front porch or back deck, or visiting my neighbor's cats (they were indoor cats and they would watch each other through the glass door). The neighbor's son-in-law was feeding him, too, until my mom figured out that's why he sometimes didn't eat the food she put out, so he stopped. He occasionally got in fights with neighborhood cats (don't know if they were feral or not) and had to go to the vet for treatment (twice had to have an abcess in his cheek drained). We had him for 7 years; he was at least 12, probably older, when he died (the vet originally estimated him at around 5 when he first showed up, but before he died they said he was probably older than they thought). I only once recall him bringing home a dead animal, and that was a baby bird that came from the nest in our tree and was flitting around the porch one day when I left for work. The next morning he was on the doormat.

Our current cats (2) were found on my cousin's boat as 2-3 day-old kittens. (They're almost 4 now.) There were 4 of them, and he found them the day after the boat had been put into the water for the season. Don't know if the mother had just gone off to find food or if something happened to her; I'm guessing she was probably feral but obviously have no way of knowing. His wife raised them for 7 weeks and then found homes for them all (they already had a not-so-friendly cat and my cousin is allergic, so they couldn't keep them). We took two, and the others went to two friends of theirs. They have always been indoor cats (and will always be, as they are declawed in the front - which is a whole other debate, was not my decision, and does not seem to adversly affect them in any way). The boy has gotten out a couple times; after he was out overnight last time he seems less inclined to try to sneak out the door again. (My mom used to take him out on a leash, but that just seemed to encourage his escape attempts, so she stopped.) The girl is afraid of her own shadow and wouldn't go outside for all the parmesan cheese in the world. Though being indoors has not stopped her from bringing me a dead baby mouse in the living room...also the occasional cricket...

[elsporko]

Our present feline is strictly an indoor cat; I've taken him outside a few times to wander around the yard while I watched him, but after he slipped through the old fence and into a neighbor's yard I've since stopped doing this. He seems fine with being indoors, though, and probably gets his adventures from wandering around the attic.

Probably nice that my parents screened in their porch so that their cats can't get away quite as easily. Growing up we did have an indoor/outdoor cat that lived a fair life, though.



What you think is a good cat is actually Tex-Mex.


What you think is tex-mex is actually a cat.

[Rapscallion]

Finally, in the UK anyway, if a driver runs over a dog, they HAVE to report it. However, they don't have to report hitting a cat, so the argument about dogs vs cats cuts both ways. Just thought I'd throw that in there. ;)

I thought that requirement ended when dogs were no longer required to have a licence?

Rapscallion

[Lace Neil Singer]

I googled and couldn't find anything that suggests that the law has changed; perhaps you'd have more luck. X_x I found a lot of stuff that suggested the law was still the same, and most people would think so anyway and not report that they killed someone's cat.

[Rapscallion]

https://www.askthe.police.uk/Content/Q434.htm

Yup - looks like that didn't actually change, though for a different reason. I think they class dogs as a large enough animal to worry about if you have a collision with one. I sit corrected.

Rapscallion

[protege]

While it is generally safer to keep kitties inside, one has to look at the risks and benefits and the personality and needs of the cat in question on a case-by-case basis.

That's why I never let Snow outside. I'm sure she would have loved playing in the yard. Because of her deafness though, it simply wasn't safe. All it would take is for a dog to sneak up on her, or for her to wander into the street...

[Stormraven]

One thing I would love to do if I had space and money, is to create an outside space for our cats. Large enough to hold a sunning rock, a good sized patch of cat grass and a large sand box, at the very least, with fencing designed to keep them in and threats out, and a cat door so they can go in and out at their leisure.

[BookstoreEscapee]

One thing I would love to do if I had space and money, is to create an outside space for our cats. Large enough to hold a sunning rock, a good sized patch of cat grass and a large sand box, at the very least, with fencing designed to keep them in and threats out, and a cat door so they can go in and out at their leisure.

I have actually thought of that myself. I'd love to be able to let the cats out for some fresh air and sun and not worry about them getting lost or hurt.

I have a cats page-a-day calendar at work, and today's page mentioned this website; seemed appropriate for this thread: Indoor Cat Initiative (http://www.vet.ohio-state.edu/indoorcat)

[guywithashovel]

I haven't read each post thoroughly, but I think this mostly depends on how everyone in the neighborhood feels about it. When my aunt was still alive, she used to let her two cats outside periodically throughout the day. However, they stayed on her property most of the time, and if they did venture beyond her yard, it wasn't a problem, because her neighbors didn't mind. In fact, most of them had cats, too, and the cats would usually play together.