I hate the following reasons not to spay/neuter a pet

[Saydrah]

I hate it when people are just plain too irresponsible to spay and neuter pets, and then act surprised to find that Fluffy is pregnant or Fido's sired a litter with the Rottie down the street. I will say that one of my two dogs is intact at the moment, for health reasons (lower risk of joint injuries in canine sports if dogs are left intact until 18 months, and he's going to be an agility/flyball dog) which I researched thoroughly. He's getting the ol' snip-snip in the next month or so, after I settle into my new place. But I HATE when people leave pets intact because:

-The kids should see the miracle of birth

How about taking them to the pound to see the miracle of death when a litter of unwanted puppies is euthanized?

-It's more natural

What exactly is natural about having all your parts and hormones but never being able to have sex?

-They should have a litter before being spayed

False. Proven wrong so many times. Having a litter carries dozens of risks, chief among them internal injuries during mating or birth and pyometra after birth. Spaying before the first heat is best.

-People should be able to make a living from animals if they want

Sure. That living that you're going to make after a $2,000 C-Section for your dog if it has complications? Oh, wait, right, you'll just let your family pet die, because it's more profitable to get a new one. Yup, just some kind American families making a living.

-The vet/groomer/walmart greeter/street person said she has perfect conformation
Unless an AKC judge says she has perfect conformation, awards her a championship, and her health clearances check out, your lovely pet is a pet, not a breeding animal.

-She's a purebred
So are 25% of dogs in shelters.

-She's so sweet!

So are most dogs in shelters.

-I want to raise puppies
Foster a litter.

-He'll get fat and lazy

Again, proven false many times. Exercise and diet keep a dog trim- not sex hormones.

-I have the RIGHT to do whatever I want with my dog!

Yes, yes you do, under the law. But ethics, despite not being law, still count for something with responsible owners.


Spooter your pets. It saves lives- your pets' through the health benefits and pets in shelters by decreasing overpopulation. There are three good reasons to leave a pet intact: They are not able to have surgery for health reasons, they are competing in events in which it is a requirement they be intact, and you are a responsible breeder who competes in conformation and/or performance, obtains all health certs possible, is active in your breed's community, and breeds for a better animal overall, never for profit. Any other reasons are either temporary like Gus's excuse of not being 18 months until now, or invalid.

[Amethyst Hunter]

TOTALLY agreed!

Oh, and here's another pathetic excuse I hate (usually given by male owners in reference to male pets, how surprising): "I don't wanna cut off my pet's balls/dick!"

Dude. If your already pathetic sense of masculinity is threatened by the very idea of this surgery (which is not being done on *you*, although perhaps it ought to be...), you identify with your pet just a liiiiiiiittle too much than is acceptably odd.

[AFPheonix]

We let Bob Barker down this year :(
We were given a fox terrier bitch by some lady through one of my sisters, who then claimed to not be able to contact the woman when we tried to get more info on the dog, like what her name was, if she was spayed, why she was gimpy on a front leg, etc.
So, we took her to the vet for a general wellness exam. The vet couldn't tell if she'd been spayed by palpating, so we were stuck waiting to see if she came in heat. Well, she looked like she started to at one point, getting swollen around the vulva area, but then stuff settled right back down and she never bled. Unfortunately not too long after she started getting rounder and got boobs. We didn't catch it in time to have a puppy abortion, unfortunately.
So, poor Cookie got to whelp. She'd gotten knocked up by one of the neighbor's Aussie shepherds who have a bad habit of coming around our house (and who the neighbors are apparently too stupid to neuter). It was a bad labor and out of 5 puppies, only one lived. Cookie had an emergency spay to get out the last 2 necrotic puppies. We're keeping the pup and calling her Nestlé. She goes in for her first round of puppy shots tomorrow and as soon as she's old enough, she'll get spayed, too.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb123/Sillyness_album/nestle2-25-08.jpg

It goes for horses, too. It's really easy to geld a colt, but it's a big involved surgery to spay a mare. So unfortunately, a lot of stupid people with mares breed them regardless of whether they're put together well or if they have any talent in any area. The number of horses getting seized by animal control, going for less than $50 in auctions, starving in fields or getting picked up by rescues is skyrocketing in the US as people default on loans or go into bankruptcy.
The bigger problem is that a lot of people who are decent, responsible breeders are cutting back on the number of colts they produce or are stopping entirely, while people who breed unregisterable crap keep cranking them out. It's sad.

[Seshat]

Phoenix,

You and your vet tried. And you did the right thing by her when she did get knocked up.

As for the main topic: let's just say that until we realised it was too much physical work for me, I volunteered at our local animal shelter. Pretty much says how I feel about it, right?

[Amethyst Hunter]

We're keeping the pup and calling her Nestlé. She goes in for her first round of puppy shots tomorrow and as soon as she's old enough, she'll get spayed, too.


Puppy cuteness! <3

The bigger problem is that a lot of people who are decent, responsible breeders are cutting back on the number of colts they produce or are stopping entirely, while people who breed unregisterable crap keep cranking them out. It's sad.

Change a few words here and there and the exact same thing could be said of humans IMO.

[AFPheonix]

I know, I watched Idiocracy and laughed my ass off, but a little bit of me died inside because it's a very real possibility in the future.

[Dreamstalker]

Aw, Nestle is soo adorable.

All our pets have been spayed/neutered. For some reason the only animal we got crap about it for was my grandparents' dog they had when I was a little kid. Apparently one of the then-neighbors thought he was a purebred (nope, a mutt with mainly setter in him, Red Fred just turned up one day).

McGriff's mama was badly abused when pregnant (I'm thinking that whoever owned the poor thing before we found her on the side of the road either couldn't figure out that unfixed females will get pregnant, or didn't know what to do). He and his siblings were unbelievably lucky to survive. Knowing there are people out there who can and will dump a pregnant cat out with the trash is frightening.

Unless there's a good reason not to have pets fixed, I will continue to do so. There are way too many perfectly good pets in shelters waiting for a home, a lot of them there because of not spaying/neutering.

[CancelMyService]

Everything said here is 100% correct, however if my brother in law had taken the time to spay his dog then I never would have had my border collie.

[Seshat]

No, but you could have gotten another border collie who was just as good. Sure, a different collie, different personality, different markings.

But unless your brother:
- had his pet checked out for every genetic flaw in border collies, checked for the conformation markers of ill health, checked for the traits in the breed that signal it comes from a strain with a serious genetic flaw, and cleared of all (or as many as possible) of those;
- and also had the stud checked for all of those; and preferably had both of their parents, grandparents, and as far back as possible checked;
- and ensured that where there were unavoidable recessives, the stud's recessives and the dam's recessives were different;

well, unless he did all that, your border collie was just as genetically random as the one in the shelter. And the one in the shelter had been checked for current or currently-identifiable medical problems, temperament tested for suitability as a family pet, immunised, and spayed/neutered.

Everyone has to make their own choices in life, but I know which I prefer. Either the thoroughly gene-tested, or the shelter pets. And of the gene-tested, I'll take the washouts. The ones which show a double-recessive that won't prevent them from being healthy, happy pets, but which is being bred out to improve the breed's overall health. (Or, of course, a dog from a breeding program like the Seeing Eye Dogs programs. They're also breeding for health, but sometimes get a perfectly healthy dog who's just too distractable, nervous, or otherwise unfit for the purpose.)

[CancelMyService]

I just wanted to add that despite my flippant comment earlier, my family has been taking care of animals for over 30 years. Our file at the vet's office looks like a New York City phonebook from all the cats and dogs we've had spayed/neutered over the years.

And yes, I had my border collie spayed as soon as she was old enough.

[LadyBarbossa]

We're having this problem with my Dad right now. He has a 2 year old Great Pyrenees/German Shepherd mix. She's a beautiful dog, and though she lacks a few things in temperament (highly territorial), she makes for an excellent watchdog and guard animal. She's friendly with us, and with my Mom's intact male pom, but she tries to attack my two boys, who are both neutered.

And by the way, Dad has never stopped giving me grief for having Murray fixed, because he's purebred. I never intended on breeding Murray and I never even paid to get papers for him.

Back on topic, now we have Dad's dog, Bea. Everytime Bea comes into heat, we have all the male dogs in the neighborhood trying to dig under the fence to get at her, and Meeko (the Pom) whines 24/7. After having a fun two weeks with all this going on, Mom stated that she'd really like to have the dog fixed so we won't deal with all this anymore.

Dad: "Noooo! She's my dog and I don't want you 'fixing' her like you did all those other animals, and besides, I want to breed her to a white German Shepherd and sell the pups."

He thinks he's going to make some fortune off these amazing puppies that would be nothing more than mutts, no matter how much I try to convince him that people willing to pay a decent amount of money for a dog want PAPERS.

We're thinking of just taking Bea and having her done anyways while he's off on a trip, and she'll be all healed up by the time he gets back and he'll never know the difference. I hate to be deceptive and sneaky like that, but I'm beginning to think we don't have much of a choice. :(

[Lace Neil Singer]

I would also say to get the Pom done too, just to be safe. You don't know that he can't escape; he might get out and impregnate someone's prize Dalmation or something and then legal action could be taken... O.o

My kitty is a spay and is still a wildlife murdering giant kitty. :lol: She was spayed as soon as she got old enough, for at the time there was an unneutered tom living accross the road and we didn't want to take any chances. Interestingly enough, as soon as she got huge, she went accross the road and beat the crap out of the tom, who was about a third of her size.

[LadyMage]

all of my animals have been fixed, since we live near a busy road and really didn't want the natural urges to do them in. They are still mischievous, evil, sneaky, adorable kitties, so obviously fixing doesn't cure a cat of its nature. I understand wanting to breed an animal if you are going to care for it and give it to responsible people, but unless you know what you are doing, just get it snipped. I also don't get comparing your 'manhood' to that of your dog's, if it bothers you that much, get this silly thing called nueticals(sp?) and give them fake parts, no one will know.

Oh and don't ask how I know about fake animal bits, just don't...

[I8DaCookie]

Oh, and here's another pathetic excuse I hate (usually given by male owners in reference to male pets, how surprising): "I don't wanna cut off my pet's balls/dick!"

UGH!! That one is the worst of all excuses. My ex doesn't have a pet but he was talking about wanting a dog (preferably male) at one point but that he wouldn't want to have the dog neutered. I looked at him weird and asked him why. He said, "I can't imaging taking away his manhood. That's just cruel." I gave him all the reasons why he should get the dog fixed but he wouldn't have it.

Just one of the many disagreements we had before we broke up.

Slightly OT: I've heard that male cats who were neutered very young make the best cats. Just wondering if anyone has heard this and why it would be true.

[XCashier]

Slightly OT: I've heard that male cats who were neutered very young make the best cats. Just wondering if anyone has heard this and why it would be true.
I've had four male cats who were neutered very young, and they were all very sweet and loving. I couldn't tell you if this holds true for all cats or if I was fortunate, but I would accept the vet's advice as to when to neuter your cat.
-She's so sweet!

So are most dogs in shelters.
Yes, I admit I did feel a slight twinge of regret for neutering Trouble, because he was so handsome and good-natured. But there are far too many cats in shelters, many who are just as handsome and good-natured as my cat, who get put to sleep every year. :( I will not add to the problem.

[protege]

Slightly OT: I've heard that male cats who were neutered very young make the best cats. Just wondering if anyone has heard this and why it would be true.

My old kitty lost his 'male bits' when he was a year old. Since he was an outside cat at the time, it made sense...even though he had the entire farm to himself. Before he got the snip, he was a bit out of control. Afterwards, he'd calmed down enough that he was allowed inside at times. I didn't feel bad about it at all--I wasn't about to dump more kittens on my grandmother. She'd had that happen once before with Kirby, and wasn't about to deal with that.

More-or-less on topic. What pisses me off, are the assholes who have the kittens, and then dump them off on someone's farm. Right before she moved, someone did just that. We already had one cat...and he wasn't too happy about the new arrivals. Some idiot dropped off a mother cat and 5 kittens one cold night. Good thing I saw them, since they would have frozen to death :eek: They ended up sleeping in the garage...and then going to the shelter the next weekend. The kittens were sooooo cute, but she didn't want any more.

[Hello Kitty]

The fake testes are here http://www.neuticles.com/

A vet told me that male cats are more affectionate than females. It's true in my house, my female cat is occasionally affectionate but can be very standoffish, this is especially true near the kids. The male cat is an attention whore, doesn't care who is giving him the attention, just lovin it.

[IDrinkaRum]

Both my male cat & female cat are attention whores. My female is always meowing and bumping up against me to get me to pet her. And it's only me. Not hubs, not my daughter, not any other visitor. Just me.

As for my boy cat? He doesn't care who you are, as long you rub between his ears an scratch under his chin. :D I love him, I do, but he does demand his petting times.

[protege]

My cat just *loves* getting petted, and usually will cuddle up with people. She does have her limits though, and sometimes get pissed if you continue to pet her. My other cat wasn't like that--he always wanted to cuddle and get petted :)