Polyamory and marriage (long question)

[LexiaFira]

This is more of a specific question. And before jumping to conclusions its not just for myself but for some of my friends back home too.
Is it wrong to be married and still love someone other than your spouse CONSIDERING that all you OR your spouse has ever done/said is that I love this other person and has not done anything more than hugged said person.

I have seen people in such relationships. It is a possibility but somewhat difficult to maintain. Alot say its wrong, its against god and the bible.
Well, how is it wrong if no marriage vows were broken and no real cheating went on? All that the one spouse has done has admitted to loving another person emotionally and all involved know. Is it even more wrong when all involved know and are ok with it? And does sex complicate it and make it a sin?

This last part gets into a very grey and religious area and if this is breaking rules please delete it. This is where I'd be called an ass and many other names for even bringing this up as the church sees otherwise and it gets into religious freedoms.
God made us in his image yes? Which means god gave us free will to feel, to have emotions and to express and be as we are, that does not include alot of other things but that is another topic for another day (IE we have free will it doesn't mean we have the right to do wrong or hurt others, it just means we have the ability to chose)
If god didn't want us to love more than one person emotionally or otherwise then we wouldn't have that free will, we wouldn't be made in his image which is that of a loving kind god. I'm going to stop here because that gets into serious debate and hopefully i did not go too far, or way too far

So. Is it really wrong if no real wrong has been done? And if not then what wrong has been done?

[McDreidel09]

The way I see it, it's the person's feelings. Some people have the ability to just love one person. Others are hard-wired to love multiple people. Some people can't love. It's human emotion, something that isn't really bound by societal ideas, such as marriage.

Then again, I am poly amorous and cannot just love one person.

[radiocerk]

As another polyamorous person, I've never seen anything morally wrong with my lifestyle. Of course, I'm not part of one of the big three monotheistic religions either.

I see monogamy, as it is traditionally viewed, to be demanding and selfish. (I know not everyone would agree, and I dont expect them to.) To expect me to be able to fulfill every one of the emotional and physical needs of another person is unfair, and for me to expect another to be able to do the same, ridiculous.

I've long stated that as long as all involved parties are okay with what is going on, where's the problem? Can you have too much love? I have three standards : above the age of consent, consenting, and human. Beyond that, who cares?

[LexiaFira]

Thank you for the help.

Grew up being taught that I'm to eventually find someone and get married or at least be happy with myself and my life. I didn't plan on getting married but it did happen and that was ok with me. However I married into a family that has hard wired it into everyone monogamy or nothing. So yes sometimes I feel it unfair that i have to remain this way to please father in law. I didn't marry him otherwise that would be the case. I married his son who managed to figure things out for himself.

as for me and my friend it was basically one parent said one thing the other said something opposite or just contradictory. (for me dad did that on purpose just to hurt mom and ended up confusing me)
I'm just trying to grasp things for myself in the fact that yes this is ok, no its not wrong as i'm not hurting anyone and no one is hurting me, its only wrong because those telling me so don't understand. I worry for my DH as he has trouble with this as he thinks something is going to happen. I can only reassure him so far without going to great lengths to demonstrate.
(will explain in private message if you must know)

for me it would be bringing a third person into the house as a friend, as someone who cares about myself AND hubby and who will contribute to the household. Physical acts are not that big on the list for me as I've chosen to be temporarily celibate for my own reasons.

the only thing i can think of thats left is to get my head straight so to speak

[telecom_goddess]

Ok I have to add something here. I have lived the poly life, and was in a triad relationship, and was in love with a 4th person who was not involved with the other two in any way. Now due to various things that triad broke down and I got dumped by TWO people instead of one. (that part of poly life sucks). So I decided I wanted to live a monogamous life instead with my current boyfriend. HOWEVER I'm finding it difficult now to stay with that. I haven't cheated yet. And remember that 4th I mentioned earlier I"m in love with? I'm still in love with him, and he's in love with me...but he's married and I have my own relationship. We haven't been physical but we have an emotional affair going on that is the strongest bond I've ever known with someone. It's not something we looked for, it just happened. I believe we are soul mates and just met at the wrong time.

This falls right into is it wrong since it's not physical cheating? I don't think so but I can see where others might feel differently, because it's a stronger bond than any physical affair might be.

But yeah I'm wishing I hadn't stated SO firmly that I wanted a monogamous life now....:rolleyes:

[LCK78]

Its wrong if you forsake all others to be with this other person. However knowing you I highly doubt that would ever happen. Don't doubt I'd reach across state lines to smack you through that phone to remind you either!

You're too good of a friend, wife and mother to walk away from anyone without trying to make sure everyone is happy. Just keep in mind you need love too and its only wrong if you think it is. Not to say that any one thing is right or wrong in grey areas and if it is wrong fine don't do it but don't go telling other people whats right and wrong based on your opinion.

[Kaylyn]

Weird, I touched on this in another thread just now.

My husband believes in monogamy. He's wired to love only one person, and that person is me. I, however, believe polyamory is entirely plausible. Last year I fell hard for someone online (in my WoW guild, to be exact). I was honest with my husband about my feelings. I explained to him that it didn't change how I felt about him, but the bond I felt with this other person was strong as well, and I didn't think the two were mutually exclusive.

He was very understanding, though he was still hurt by it. He said he didn't want to share me, but if I talked to the other person and decided I wanted to be with him, that he loved me enough to let me go because he wanted to be happy.

Yeah, I'm still with the husband. :) Partly because I couldn't bring myself to hurt him after saying something like that, and partly because, well, turns out the other guy believes in monogamy too and didn't want to screw up my marriage. We're still really good friends to this day, but I'm over those feelings now.

I still stand by my beliefs and think that you can love one person completely and still love another person without it affecting your feelings for the first person. Sure, it's complicated, but I really don't think you can choose who you fall for, and your heart doesn't necessarily shut itself down once you attach yourself to someone. The biggest problem is when one of the people you fall for doesn't understand your feelings towards others.

[LexiaFira]

what can I say....I think and this is generally speaking that for everyone its different. Some are ready and understanding and have an open mind. Or some know about it and understand it yet it takes years to get to that point mentally where they are ok with it within themselves and jealousy is not an issue to worry about or other issues such as trust.
It took me to the age of about 25 to figure out i might be poly, and even longer to learn that its ok to be jealous but not act out so insecurely about it. Or that its better to communicate than act as I have seen most people i have known act. So for me its more of that I know its not wrong, yet it felt that way to me and I suppose I was seeking reassurance that in being this way that I myself and not wrong or evil. I would think not since I do get mean streaks and have yet to act upon them beyond being witchy

[ExiledV20]

Is it wrong to be married and still love someone other than your spouse CONSIDERING that all you OR your spouse has ever done/said is that I love this other person and has not done anything more than hugged said person.

No. It is not wrong.

Alot say its wrong, its against god and the bible.
Well, how is it wrong if no marriage vows were broken and no real cheating went on? All that the one spouse has done has admitted to loving another person emotionally and all involved know.

That's why it isn't against the Bible. The Bible forbids adultery. Platonic love is not forbidden at all and in fact was encouraged by the Church during the period medieval romances were written. The people who think the Bible forbids a chaste love when married are, frankly, smoking crack.


Is it even more wrong when all involved know and are ok with it?

Not at all.

And does sex complicate it and make it a sin?

Depends on the religion.

[Kheldarson]

I'll go ahead and say that I'm wired for monogamy. I would get confused when crushing on too many guys and usually settled on one. So that's me.

In biblical terms though, technically, polyamory is never put down. There's only the caveat of "Thou shalt not commit adultery". Adultery is defined as being false to the vows you've made within what ever stage of relationship you're in (like you're unmarried and sleeping around a lot. Or married and sleeping around a lot). Hence why you see a lot of the patriarchs in Old Testament having multiple wives. It was considered better for the tribe for the man to have many wives in order to ensure the survival of the tribe. So I'm sure the vows took that into consideration. Over time, though, the survival was secured, so you see a decline in the multiple wives.

Hence why the Church now stands by one man, one woman. Because, yes, it's a sacrifice, and yes, it's hard, but if that's your vocation then that's what you live.

But going back to the beginning, there's technically nothing wrong as long as all parties involved are fine with it. And all are treated equally.

Personally, it's all between you, God, and your partners, isn't it?

[LexiaFira]

Personally, it's all between you, God, and your partners, isn't it?

YES
I'm starting to see that the whole having more than one partner in marriage or otherwise is considered a social sin or in certain churches it is "wrong" yet when I asked out of curiosity they didn't have much bible reference to back it up and it was based on what that person believed to be right or morally right. I also see it as each person's state of mind and how open they are to things. And sadly for alot of people that isn't until well into old age or never at all or not in this or the next lifetime.
For me I think more of my husband and partner (two people here) than I do of me and believe that maturity is being able to think of what I do or will soon do and how it affects others than about me. I see that as sign of great maturity and how I can see that so many adults have yet to ever grow up in some ways.

The point to that is that I expect this kind of maturity from the group including me or to at LEAST consider everyone before doing something especially if it involves the household.

The worst part, is that when some people be it acquaintances or now ex friends find out I am Bi they assume that I sleep with whoever I want whenever. That makes me angry as whatever your sexuality it doesn't automatically mean I or any other person is promiscuous unless stated before hand! I know many bi/gay/les people who are quite monogamous and i knew a few straight people to be quite the sexually active people while in a relationship yet still preached of monogamy heh.
yes this little rant was spurred by a recent family blow up

[Kheldarson]

Sorry you've met the more militant side of the Christian family. We're trying to get them to change their ways, but they like to drown the rest of us out. *sigh*

As long as it's what you want, and believe is right, and are willing to take the rewards and punishments that occur here or beyond the grave, who is anybody to judge? Even the saints admitted to being sinners, and I don't know very many saints in modern times. There are two currently up for nomination out of the past few decades.

And I'd blame the image of Bi=promiscuity on Hollywood. That's where I think most people get exposed to that idea.

[Nyoibo]

From memory, several figures in the bible had multiple wives, so don't look to the bible for arguements about monogamous marriages.

[Lace Neil Singer]

As long as all parties are consenting and perfectly fine with the arrangement; then yes.

If you are just using it as an excuse to repeatedly cheat on your unknowing spouse; then no.

[LexiaFira]

was told its not cheating if all involved know about it and are ok with it so yeah. and have no intentions of cheating either. Husband knows all about it. My slow self has to get the courage to say it again not just to the person but for him to believe it.

[Greenday]

Ugh, I'm arguing over this right now with someone else. His only reasoning as to why it's wrong is "because it's illegal?"

I'm pretty sure people dislike polygamy and polyamory for the same reasons they dislike communism: they've just been told all their lives it's bad so it must be bad.

[jedimaster91]

Is it wrong to be married and still love someone other than your spouse CONSIDERING that all you OR your spouse has ever done/said is that I love this other person and has not done anything more than hugged said person.

Absolutely not. We all have relationships and connections with some people that developed before we met/married/got with our spouse/long term partner. Just because one is in an exclusive, monogomous relationship doesn't mean those previous connections go away. However, there are boundaries that shouldn't be crossed such as relying on an outside connection more so than your spouse. And physical cheating.

I have seen people in such relationships. It is a possibility but somewhat difficult to maintain. Alot say its wrong, its against god and the bible.
Well, how is it wrong if no marriage vows were broken and no real cheating went on? All that the one spouse has done has admitted to loving another person emotionally and all involved know. Is it even more wrong when all involved know and are ok with it?

It's something you have to be careful with because if you're not, it could lead to marriage vows getting broken.

And does sex complicate it and make it a sin?

It definitely complicates it. As for it being a sin or not, that depends on who you ask, but in my opinion, yes it is.

God made us in his image yes? Which means god gave us free will to feel, to have emotions and to express and be as we are, <snip> If god didn't want us to love more than one person emotionally or otherwise then we wouldn't have that free will, we wouldn't be made in his image which is that of a loving kind god.

Like any good parent, God has set boundaries. Sure, we are free to feel and free to act. But we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions. Those consequences may or may not happen right away, but they are there. You have to decide if the possible consequences are worth the action. For me, losing my husband's trust isn't worth it, so I try to avoid situations that might look bad.

[evilfarmer]

My DH and I were in a poly relationship with 2 other women. What we have found through 3 yrs of it is that our relationship to each other has to come first and that both of us have to know and like the new person before adding someone to our lives. Its not perfect nor is it easy and we have both been hurt and are now with just one woman. Both of us were raised in monogamous Christian relationships but our lives are between us and God. Leah and Rachel from the bible were married to the same man and as one thread mentioned on here you can prove or disprove just about anything with that book. As long as everyone understands and agrees to the situation I have never seen an issue with loving more then one person.

[Mytical]

This is a .. difficult subject for me to express in any way that will make sense. However, I will try to do so.

There are many factors that you have to consider, but they are internal..and not external. It doesn't matter what OTHERS think, to be honest, but what the people in the relationship think.

For instance. I am a person who loves everybody, until they do me wrong. No, not sexually, but emotionally. While straight, I feel that you have to have an open heart, and care for everybody you can. People call this 'wearing your heart on your sleeve'. So yes, I get hurt .. a lot. I know rambling, will try to get back to the point.

I am in a relationship with somebody who believes in Monogamy. So it is a monogamous relationship. If you love and respect somebody, you have to love and respect their thoughts on the matter.

So .. since everybody in the relationship seems ok with it, it doesn't matter what the church thinks. Or anybody else for that matter. Even thinking about 'legality'. Because nobody is married to multiple partners, so the legality of it is a moot point (I won't get into the fratch about what I think about some peoples ideas on marriage).

If it is 1) Consensual 2) Doesn't involve anybody who does not know enough to decide (young children and the like) 3) the people involved are happy..then (pardon the language) screw everybody else. Flip them the bird, tell them to mind their own business, and move on.

As to the 'religion' aspect. I am not a christian, so I can't speak for them. However, if I remember right .. god is love right? He (or she :D) is ALL about love..right? Then why the flying flip would He (or she) care?

[guywithashovel]

When I stop and think about it, I suspect that I must be a magnet for women with polyamorous attitudes, because I can't tell you how many times I've had women in committed relationships befriend me and act flirty with me. I know I've mentioned that before, but it's relevant to this thread. Plus, I like to repeat it because it really gets on my nerves.

Honestly, this topic is foreign territory to me. I've always believed in monogamy. It's how I was raised. Also, even though I lean to the left on multiple issues, I tend to have a pretty traditional view of relationships and marriage. The only non-traditional view I have on the subject is that I don't want to have kids. Aside from that, I hope to have a fairly traditional relationship and marriage. I am a little flexible, though. If she wanted a long-term period of engagement or boyfriend/girlfriend status before marriage was discussed, I could accept that. Also, if we got married, and she didn't want to take my name, I could accept that, too.

Back to the original subject, though, I'm not sure how I'd handle this if I got into a relationship with someone who was like this. Even though my family isn't all that religious, most of them are pretty traditional. Most of the married people in my family have traditional, monogamous marriages, though several of them have no children (their choice). I just wasn't conditioned to see that polyamory was a reality.

I'm not sure how I'd react if my girlfriend or wife said to me what Kaylyn said to her husband. Honestly, I'd probably be hurt. When i think about it, I'd probably freeze up. That's not to say anything bad about Kaylyn. Just stating my feelings.

[Andara Bledin]

was told its not cheating if all involved know about it and are ok with it so yeah.
That has always been my view.

I am a person who loves everybody, until they do me wrong. No, not sexually, but emotionally. While straight, I feel that you have to have an open heart, and care for everybody you can. People call this 'wearing your heart on your sleeve'. So yes, I get hurt .. a lot.
As to the 'religion' aspect. I am not a christian, so I can't speak for them. However, if I remember right .. god is love right? He (or she :D) is ALL about love..right? Then why the flying flip would He (or she) care?
Other than the religion angle (I am absolutely Christian), you have just said everything I had planned to say.

Agape is the term for non-sexual love.

I am another that has polyamorous tendencies. I am also quite vehemently anti-cheating. Relationships are built on trust and respect, and when one party is cheating, then there is no foundation and the relationship is doomed to collapse eventually.

^-.-^

[LexiaFira]

I don't have much to add to this beyond the whole trust is a big issue with me and I am still trying hard to learn to trust more easily yet not ignore my instincts when something doesn't feel right. (IE a person could be all nice and polite but if it rubs me the wrong way I will ask people that know that person)

Otherwise right now anything I could add would be rambling as I'm trying to make sure I am ok with me before continuing in any other relationships outside of my marriage

[Andara Bledin]

I don't have much to add to this beyond the whole trust is a big issue with me and I am still trying hard to learn to trust more easily yet not ignore my instincts when something doesn't feel right.
Always trust the way you feel in relationships.

It doesn't matter how trustworthy another is if they make you feel uncomfortable. Any lack of comfort that goes beyond the usual compromises one makes when sharing their life with others can poison a relationship and can be harmful to everybody involved, both emotionally and physically.

As far as I'm concerned, the first rule of any relationship is honesty. Honestly with oneself, first, and honesty with one's partner(s) directly after.

^-.-^