New mom stuff

[blas87]

Watching Tyra Banks today (well, actually, playing on here and CS.com with the TV on for background noise), the intro to the show was a bunch of women saying "Sometimes I want to throw my baby at the wall" "Sometimes I just let him cry for hours and don't do anything" and "I don't want some alien sucking on my breasts!"

What do you guys think? Is this normal for new moms to feel THIS bad? Is it really that wrong and selfish for a woman to refuse to breast feed, or to not want children because she wants to keep her figure and perky breasts as long as possible?

[IDrinkaRum]

It's not normal for new mothers to feel this bad. I believe they have Post Partum Depression. I had it - it went on so long it morphed into Depression. After I discussed it with a girlfriend (after I started to get help), she was like "Yeah, me and Mary (another friend of mine) had a feeling you had post partum." Ummm .. Thank you? Why didn't you sit me down and tell me I needed help? You let me slide down further and further before I had to watch Brooke Shields on Oprah and figure it out for yourself? Yeah, I'm not close to them at all anymore.

As for not wanting children because they want to keep their perky breasts and perfect body? Heh, whatever floats their boat. Not everyone needs to have kids. Who cares? They're adults. You wants kids? Good - have them. You don't want kids? Good - don't have them. Doesn't matter to me either way, and it's really a personal choice anyways.

Just my opinion though. :)

[Ree]

But, IDrinkaRum, I think blas was saying these were new Moms who didn't want to breast feed because it would ruin their breasts. (...or did I read that wrong, blas?)

Refusing to breastfeed just to keep your breasts perky is selfish, in my opinion. Why have a child, then?

On the other hand, the breastfeeding experience is just not for everyone, either. My daughter tried it, but was always so stressed and worried that she wasn't producing enough milk for the baby, that she had to give it up.

As for the other comments, I agree with IDrinkaRum that it sounds like PPD.

Now, as for not wanting to have a child, whether a person simply does not want to, or even because of the changes it will make to their body, that's their own business. Frankly, if a person has that thought, it's better that they don't have children.

[blas87]

I'm pretty sure that's what was implied on the show. I regret I can't remember, the show was interrupted by a live interview with Brett Favre, so I missed all the details.

[IDrinkaRum]

OoO! I must have mis-read Blas' post. :o Sorry about that.

Now, if they don't want to breastfeed because of not wanting their boobs to get out of shape, yes that's selfish.

Now my sister & I couldn't/can't breastfeed because our children were born early and our milk didn't come in until after they were used to bottle feeding. Ah well. I still loved to feed my daughter. :D

[AFPheonix]

Good lord. At that point they've already got stretch marks and a pooch, what's the deal with some saggy boobs?

[Princess-Snake]

That's what's wrong with people today. It's all about me, me, me. Helpless little infants be damned. They're not going to ruin my perfect boobs.:mad: Ironinc, since these women are boobs themselves.

[Seshat]

"Sometimes I want to throw my baby at the wall" "Sometimes I just let him cry for hours and don't do anything"

I had care of my niece when she was an infant. I love her, but 10 hours once a week - well, I know exactly what the women saying these things feel like.

When I felt like that, I'd feed her, check and change her, and tuck her into her crib with her toys - then call my Mum and touch base, make sure she was going to be safe if I left her there. Then I'd go huddle in a corner with a blanket and try to de-stress.

I'm VERY much in favour of prospective parents having at least a 'Baby think it over' type of doll, if not a selection of real kids of various ages to look after.

And yes, these feelings, plus "I don't want a parasite inside me! EWWWW!" are among the reasons I don't have any kids of my own.

What do you guys think? Is this normal for new moms to feel THIS bad? Is it really that wrong and selfish for a woman to refuse to breast feed, or to not want children because she wants to keep her figure and perky breasts as long as possible?

It's probably not normal for new mothers to feel that bad, not if they genuinely wanted children. If what they actually wanted was an accessory, a perfect baby doll, or 'to be like everyone else' - then yes, some of those people will feel awful when faced with the reality of a baby. Probably most of them.

I think it's perfectly fine for women to not want children because of the changes their body would endure: pregnancy is one of the higher-risk things we voluntarily to do to our bodies. You're stuck in your body for the rest of your life, I see nothing wrong with choosing not to risk fistulas, gestational diabetes, eclampsia, and the many other things that can go wrong.

And even if everything goes right, the connections between your two halves of your pelvis are weakened and your stomach muscles are stretched and will never be the same. All your ligaments soften during the pregnancy which can permanently affect your joints, many nutrients go to the baby - and if you don't eat enough of them they're leached from you. Lots of permanent changes, even if everything goes right. Plus the well-known, more cosmetic problems of changes in breast shape, stretch marks, and softened belly skin.

The most comprehensive list of pregnancy effects that I happen to know of is at the Liz Library (which yes, is a political site, but the medical info on this page is correct as far as I know). It's separated into temporary, permanent and possible effects, and can be found here (http://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm). I believe anyone has a right to look at that list and say 'nuh-uh! Not me!'

However, once you've decided to bear a child, go through with it. I think it's wrong and selfish for a woman who has chosen to have a child to refuse to breastfeed solely for cosmetic reasons. There are a host of legitimate reasons for women not to want to breastfeed; don't get me wrong. But I don't think 'it'll make my breasts look funny' is a good reason. Besides, it's too late! Pregnancy makes them un-perky anyway.

[blas87]

I never even felt that hostile towards a baby or child even when I used to babysit.

I'd get upset, but I'd never think "I want to kill this thing!", I called my mother to come over and help me, and I was screaming to myself "What is wrong with me?! Why can't I do this?!"

[AFPheonix]

But you hadn't just given birth to the child, so you weren't dealing with all the wierd hormonal changes these moms were going through.
I can understand the weird thoughts and don't fault them for them. I'm glad that post-natal depression is really getting to be more well-known.

[Seshat]

I hadn't just given birth to my niece and I still felt that hostile to her. Even though I knew she was just making valid complaints and just being a baby. It was still too much for me to handle.

That's in my top 10 of reasons Seshat looooves her IUD.


Oddly enough, I'm sure one of the reasons my mother and sister-in-law wanted me to babysit her was to try to get me to have a kid of my own. Well that backfired. But I'm certain my hypothetical kid is better off this way.

[thrifty]

As a side note

Breastfeeding actually helps you lose your after baby weight. It also helps your uterus return to it's normal state.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I dont' buy that having babies ruins your body. What ruins you body is not taking care of your body, particularly when pregnant. Your breasts are vulnerable when you are breastfeeding. Take extra care of them and you shouldn't have to worry about them being "ruined". Wear a proper fitting bra. Don't gain a bunch of weight so that you end up with stretchy skin and worn out muscles.

I gained maybe 10 pounds, which I am currently losing, my feet are about a size bigger, my hips are a little wider...yeah. That's pretty much it. My boobs are still perky enough to pass a pencil test and I breastfed for two years.

And I'm going to be 45 this year.

So phfbt on that.

I do think women have all kinds of crazy thoughts sometimes after they give birh. My sister suffered full on postpartum depression for a thankfully short time. I didn't, but I will admit it took me while to really bond with my baby. Right after she was born, I knew I would kill or die for her. However, that overwhelming mother instinct took a little while to kick in. I'm a little bothered by that when I am completely honest with myself. But I understand that can be pretty normal. Wanting to throw your baby into a wall? I dunno, that sounds like time to talk to a doctor to me. Not abnormal, but certainly not healthy.

[Seshat]

I dont' buy that having babies ruins your body. What ruins you body is not taking care of your body, particularly when pregnant.

Oh, I agree. Pregnancy that goes right changes a body, not ruins it.

[Zyanya]

It's nice that you had such an easy pregnancy. Not all women do. Weight gain is affected by hormones, as are the other changes. My cousin's feet had so many problems due to bone spreading she is permanently disabled and walking will always be painful for her.

It took me months to recover from my C-section (which came at the end of 40 hours of labor with NO pain meds due to idiotic policies). Months in which I was unable to be upright for more than a few minutes at a time, yet still had to deal with an active baby that was almost 10lbs at birth. Physical weakness, exhaustion, haywire hormones, inability to keep food down, and did I mention the pain every time I moved?

I breastfeed, but having a husband who was willing to give the kid a bottle now and then saved my sanity, and probably my health.

I still remember having some judgemental bitch try to lecture me for giving my baby a bottle when we had to be out of the house for a day. I still am filled with rage at her insensitive callous busy-body fucktardary.

If a woman chooses not to breastfeed, you do not have the right to call her selfish. You don't know her situation, what health problems she may have, whether she has to work, what her hormones are like, or anything else. It is better for a baby to have a bottle and an emotionally healthy mother than to be breastfeed and resented.

Having babies can easily ruin your body. Fuck that 'oh, just take care of yourself' bullshit. 1 in 74 women DIE due to complications from pregnancy.

I love my son very much. If I get pregnant again in spite of all the precautions I have taken, I will abort. I cannot go through all those health problems again, especially not when I have a responsibility to an existing child.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm not saying everyone is the same. Everyone ISN'T the same, and I certainly acknowledge that some women have a MUCH harder time than other women. However, I see a lot of women using their pregnancies as excuses to not care for themselves, and they end up paying the price.

As for breastfeeding, any woman who stands in judgement of another woman's choices is an idiot. Having breastfed, I wish I had a nickle for every time I thought seriously of throwing in the towel on it. It is NOT something you "just do" and the attitude that "Oh, it's a natural thing and it ought to be an easy enough thing for you to do" is extremely detrimental to women. It can be very, very difficult to do. It can be frustrating, excruciatingly painful, fraught with worry and guilt, and any number of other bad things I havent' even touched on. Some women who desperately want to do it just flat out can't.

Women do awful things to each other when they should be supporting each other. It sucks. Trying to lay a guilt trip on a mother for her choices, especially when a person does not know that mother's situation, is loathsome.

[Zyanya]

Trying to lay a guilt trip on a mother for her choices, especially when a person does not know that mother's situation, is loathsome.

I most heartily agree. That's why it annoys me to be lectured that 'if you'd just taken care of yourself your body wouldn't have been damaged by the pregnancy'.

My sister went from a D cup to an A cup after two pregnancies. Nothing she could do about it, and yes, she's upset that her boobs were ruined. I had the opposite problem and went from a D cup to a F cup and they are just now returning to 'normal' but they are not and short of surgery will not ever be firm and perky again.

I wore proper fitting bras and actually LOST weight during my pregnancy. There was no 'extra care' I could have taken. My body has been permanently altered, between stretch marks (run in the family), extra skin, and oh, yeah, the scar, I will never again be comfortable in a bikini. If I relied on my body for my career, or if I'd spent years sculpting my body because my appearance mattered to me, it easily would have been devastating.

And I fully admit that I am saddened by the loss of the firm, perky D-cups with just the right amount of jiggle. They'd been with me since 6th grade. Alas, the proud have fallen and short of surgery, my nipples will never again turn skyward. It doesn't make me a bad person or a bad mother that I care and wish they were the same as they ever were.

Should I have spent time on a treadmill? I'm sure it would have done wonders for the vertigo I kept experiencing. Stomach crunches? I'd imagine those would go wonderfully with morning sickness. Between the backaches, the foot problems, the exhaustion, morning sickness, vertigo, and that nasty habit of bleeding if I exerted myself to much, yeah, I'd eat some easy-make junk food rather than make a healthy dinner. I worked full time for most of my pregnancy. I guess that was my 'excuse not to take care of myself' and I'm just 'paying the price'. It just wasn't worth risking a miscarriage to go to the store for a salad when the pizza company was willing to deliver.

[Seshat]

I'm not saying everyone is the same. Everyone ISN'T the same, and I certainly acknowledge that some women have a MUCH harder time than other women. However, I see a lot of women using their pregnancies as excuses to not care for themselves, and they end up paying the price.

That may well be what you meant, but what you said was:

I dont' buy that having babies ruins your body. What ruins you body is not taking care of your body, particularly when pregnant. Your breasts are vulnerable when you are breastfeeding. Take extra care of them and you shouldn't have to worry about them being "ruined". Wear a proper fitting bra. Don't gain a bunch of weight so that you end up with stretchy skin and worn out muscles.

The two paragraphs convey entirely different ideas. The second doesn't have any statement (or any lead for the reader to infer) that you're only referring to pregnancies that go well, or to women who use their pregnancy as an excuse not to look after themselves.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Folks, I really didn't mean to offend anyone, and I apologize. I didn't do a very good job of expressing myself in a sensitive manner.

I don't honestly think that women who have problems brought it on themselves through their own negligence. I have had friends do that exact thing (n one case, a pregnant hypochondriac who decided that sleep, decent diet, and moderate exercise what something she was far too sick and weak to do, and ended up really messing herself up in the long run...and yeah, she really was a classic case hypochondriac and a recluse to boot. Long story. But I guess I was thinking of her and a couple others I know when I said that.), but I do understand that many women get dealt a bad hand through no fault of their own. I didn't mean to apply that one explanation fits all situations.

Again, I am sorry I came across as insensitive, it wasn't my intent.

[Seshat]

Apology accepted. Thank you for it.

[Hello Kitty]

Alright, what about Rosie O'Donnell - she stopped her spouse breastfeeding because she was jealous of the bonding occurring? Now *that* was selfish.

[Zyanya]

Alright, what about Rosie O'Donnell - she stopped her spouse breastfeeding because she was jealous of the bonding occurring? Now *that* was selfish.

If her spouse was dumb enough to do it, that's her problem.