Sometimes I feel cheated

[DrFaroohk]

When I was a kid, kids were basically black. You had ZERO rights as a kid. The only obligation your parents had to you was make sure you didn't die. That's it. Feed you, cloth you, keep your warm in the winter, make sure you don't run into the road and try not to rape you. Anything else was basically out of the question. You were basically a third-class citizen.

What I remember mostly sucking about my childhood was being basically forbidden from speaking. Talking back was a smackable offense, and basically anything other than "I'm sorry!" was considered talking back. Even saying "I didn't do that, it was my brother" no matter how true it was, was considered rude backtalk.

FUCK KIDS! That was the attitude. Make sure they don't die, and they can go fuck themselves the rest of the way.

But all through those years, I reminded myself "Dude, someday you'll be an adult. Then YOU get to run the show."

And now that I'm an adult, I'm wondering just what in the fuck changed.

[Rapscallion]

What changed? Perspective.

There may be some societal shift over time, but I doubt that much. Instead, you're still just perceiving more of what irritates you.

Rapscallion

[Ipecac Drano]

And now that I'm an adult, I'm wondering just what in the fuck changed.
The set of adults did.

When I was growing up, I didn't have parents, teachers, or that many other adults like that around me. Sure, there were a few crotchety neighbors and strangers like that, but most of the adults around me were pretty mellow.

[crashhelmet]

Back then, parents were allowed to discipline their kids. Now a days, we can't. You're at risk of some outside party mistaking your discipline for abuse and reporting you, or in worse scenarios, your child lying about your discipline and reporting you. Some parents are afraid to discipline their kids. Others just don't care enough about their kids. Now the kids run the show.

[Plaidman]

That's the mistake people make. Parents are still perfectlly allowed to corporal punish their kids.

They are not allowed to excessivly punish their kids, which means don't break the skin or bones and whatnot.

A beaten on the ass by a wooden spoon is still perfectlly legal.

[Racket_Man]

That's the mistake people make. Parents are still perfectlly allowed to corporal punish their kids.

They are not allowed to excessivly punish their kids, which means don't break the skin or bones and whatnot.

A beaten on the ass by a wooden spoon is still perfectlly legal.

your answer is below. a quick swat on the bottom of a misbehaving child in public is now considered abuse and some busybody WILL call CPS. count on it

Back then, parents were allowed to discipline their kids. Now a days, we can't. You're at risk of some outside party mistaking your discipline for abuse and reporting you, or in worse scenarios, your child lying about your discipline and reporting you. Some parents are afraid to discipline their kids. Others just don't care enough about their kids. Now the kids run the show.

I have been through the first two situations that Crash mentions (outside party and a child lying). I have also been through some asshole who thought it was funny to call CPS every few months to report totally false allegations. try being in a situation where (possibly) your own parents contact CPS because they "think" your spouse might not be a good parent. try having CPS literally alien anal probe you for a while and see how it feels.

[Greenday]

Well, when people realized it's possible to discipline kids without abusing them, they decided that abusing kids was wrong.

My mother never raised a hand against me once. She never abused me in any way. She didn't treat me like a prisoner. And here I am, a few months from being 23, done with college, working, clean record, never had detention, etc.

Obviously I'm living proof that you don't need to beat your kids to get them to behave.

[blas87]

Yes, but at the same time, this new-age uber liberal psychological bullshit doesn't work very well on children because adults and children operate on two different levels. My first experience with 1-2-3 magic was in elementary school (probably around the time this new age shit started) and I was never scared of the teacher getting to 2, or even 3. Oh, you're going to put me in a corner seperate from the rest of the class? Good. That'll teach me not to laugh when Little Bobby farts in class.

For instance, with 1-2-3 magic...."Johnny, that's one!" a few mins later "Johnny, that's two! Don't make me count to three!" and Little Johnny just smiles and keeps shoving Little Timmy's head in the toilet.

And the corner and the naughty chair. Oh puh-lease.

[AdminAssistant]

If I truly feel that I can't raise my children without hitting them or resorting to emotional abuse, then I won't have any. I don't want my kids to be in their late 20's and still be an overly apologetic neurotic mess like I am.

[blas87]

I don't think beating them is the best choice, either. I had a belt-loving father (because that's how he was raised) and a mother whose behind broke several wooden spoons, so you can just guess how many spoons my ass has destroyed and how many welts I once had on my buttocks.

It just disappoints me to see parents that absolutely refuse to step in and do their job and instead try to play Head Shrink with their kid to get them to behave. That just doesn't work. Kid is pulling kitty's tail, and you tell them to stop it, and they keep pulling it? Don't huff and puff and walk away, don't kneel down and start with the "This is why you don't pull kitty's tail, because he can sense your dominance over him and it intimidates and threatens him" talk, you pick the child up with your arms and remove them from the cat and put them somewhere else and say "You DO NOT grab kitty's tail, do you understand me?!" in an authorative voice.

Physical does not have to mean beating a child, it can be as simple as a swat on the hand to not touch something, picking them up if they refuse to come along with you to leave a store, or picking up up and removing them from a situation where they are causing trouble.

[Rageaholic]

Maybe it's not the times so much as it is the parents. There are still plenty of authoritarian parents out there. I wasn't raised that way, but many of my friends were. Hell, just walking through a store, I've seen parents yelling at their kids when they weren't doing anything wrong. I've also seen kids who probably should have been yelled at, but weren't. Time may play some part of it, but I think it's mostly the parents themselves.

[Andara Bledin]

Obviously I'm living proof that you don't need to beat your kids to get them to behave.
No. The plural of anecdote is not data.

You are proof that kids like you don't need corporal punishment to turn out all right.

As for the right way to raise a child, it's completely different for every child. Some will respond to time outs, others will respond to being spanked, and others will do with just a verbal reprimand.

I'm not sure what sort of place or time the OP grew up in, but it's completely alien to that which I went through.

^-.-^

[blas87]

I'm inclined to agree with Rage on the parents themselves and not necessarly the times. At some point, I think a lot of parents began to think they could relate and get their point across to their kids better if they acted more like friends than a parent, or tried to pre-maturely treat them like an adult by speaking to them like one, to get inside their heads.

[Teysa]

I think some of this is the fact when you're a kid it seems like grown ups have all the fun. I remember thinking that when I grew up I was going to eat cookies every day for breakfast. I was going to stay up as late as I wanted and get up whenever I felt like it. And most important: nobody was going to tell me what to do.

Then reality hit. Cookies are yummy but I do better with a healthier breakfast. I enjoy having electricity and eating on a regular basis so I have to get up early enough to get to work on time. By the same token, I have to get to bed early enough to get enough rest. Oh, and I still have people telling me what to do and I have to do what they say if I wish to continue getting a paycheck.

[Andara Bledin]

Then reality hit.
As the saying goes: Youth is wasted on the young.

^-.-^

[jackfaire]

I think you just have to look at it from my point of view.

When I became a dad I was waiting for this knowledge that my parents seemed to have all of that wisdom they must have been given since they spent my life telling me what was best for me and how I should live.

Imagine the culture shock when I realized that they had none of these things. They like me had no fucking clue what they were doing and honest to god they were just winging it.

The difference between my parents and me? I don't play like I have all the answers. I don't want to be god in my kid's eyes I just want to be Dad. It will make it easier when she realizes I am human like everyone else.

As far as types of punishment they often only work if all parents involved agree and you can get other adults to honor your wishes. IE you tell your kid they can't have another doughnut it's easy to punish them (pick your method) when they ignore you and take one anyway.

How do you discipline them though when another adult ignores you and gives them one anyway.

Any form of discipline is essentially negated when your child learns, "If person A won't do what I want go to person B"

[guywithashovel]

I've felt this way sometimes.

For example, when I was a kid, cell phones were a luxury, and not very many people had them. My aunt had a cell phone that she toted with her all the time, and I thought that was really cool. I looked forward to being an adult and being able to carry around cool stuff like that that kids "couldn't" have.

Now, I'm all grown up and have a cell phone that I carry around with me. Thing is, we've now reached a time when almost everyone has a cell phone. Even most kids have their own cell phones.

Likewise, when I was a teen, the Internet was still a new, luxurious thing. There were still a lot of people who didn't have home Internet access or even home computers. However, most of the adults in my family had their own computers with Internet access, while I had to use Dad's computer to use the Internet at home. For a while, I even had to share his email address before I found out about Hotmail. I looked forward to being an adult and being able to have my own computer and Internet. Now, I'm an adult and have those things, but many kids nowadays have their own computers that they don't have to share with anyone else in the house.

To some extent, I do feel cheated.

[DrFaroohk]

A lot of what I experienced as a kid was "kids are meant to be seen, not heard". Which nowadays seems to be the opposite. "KIDS MUST ALWAYS BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION!"

I live in a rural area and there's lots of campfires in the warmer months, and nowadays someone has always brought their annoying 12 year old along. It's almost midnight, people are drinking and smoking and talking about adult themes but we have to be discreet because someone who clearly doesn't belong there just had to come.

When I was a kid that was unthinkable! It was expected that no one bring a kid to an adult gathering, because that would put the adults out of their way. No way they're sacrificing their evening for someone who doesn't even belong there!

But these days it almost seems like a sin to leave the kid with a babysitter. We're all supposed to act like we a give a shit about this kids preteen drama that he probably just made up anyway.

Or you have to TALK to them now too. Talk and listen and understand. Where the fuck was this when I was a kid? When my dad sent me to my room, and I countered with "But I didn't do it!" his response was "I didn't ask you if you did it or not. I told you to go to your room."

I just wish all this bullcrap was around when I was that age, that's all. I feel like I dealt with being dirt for most of my childhood, and now that I'm an adult, I'm still dirt. They up and changed the rules on me deah!

[blas87]

I agree to an extent.

It's beyond annoying when you and your date or your friends are going to the newest gore-fest R rated movie, and someone just HAS to bring their baby or toddler along.

Or, you just had another shit-astic week at work, can't wait for a nice romantic dinner with your SO, and you get sat next to a family with shrieking annoying kids.

A few Fridays ago, I had a dinner date with my mom (we do this at least one Friday a month) and there was a table with 3 kids in it next to us. The mom was so busy with her dumb boyfriend that she didn't care that her two boys were running all over the dining room and the little girl was bouncing up and down in the booth until eventually, she fell, bashed her head against the table, then screamed bloody murder for several minutes.

And yes, I also hate it when friends have gatherings or bonfires as we call them, and our friends with kids just have to bring them along. When I used to smoke, I'd have to walk away to do it, so I didn't get smoke around their kids, and we'd have to watch our drinks so that the little ones didn't wander around and grab them, and we had to watch our mouths and it was just stupid. I understand a lot of parents may feel bad or left out because of having kids, but they shouldn't be allowed at these adult events. Get a fucking sitter already.

[Mytical]

See, I am of a very less popular opinion. I believe that the lack of discipline is why things are going down hill. Why there are more SC's, EW's, and why people tend to care about themselves more then others. Now, mind..I am talking discipline, not beating.

My parents never actually had to lay a hand on me. Yes they did the 'go get a switch thing' and such..but that was enough. I feared death less then I did their disapproval. Did they swat my bottom, etc? Yes. However, not once did it hurt anything but my pride. The fact that I disappointed them, that they were angry at me hurt 100x worse.

Some children are fine with just "Go to the corner", others..not so much.

[Sage Blackthorn]

See, I am of a very less popular opinion. I believe that the lack of discipline is why things are going down hill. Why there are more SC's, EW's, and why people tend to care about themselves more then others. Now, mind..I am talking discipline, not beating.

My parents never actually had to lay a hand on me. Yes they did the 'go get a switch thing' and such..but that was enough. I feared death less then I did their disapproval. Did they swat my bottom, etc? Yes. However, not once did it hurt anything but my pride. The fact that I disappointed them, that they were angry at me hurt 100x worse.

Some children are fine with just "Go to the corner", others..not so much.

I tend you agree with you Myt'. When I was growing up, if I did something my parents disapproved of I got a single swat on the butt and sent to my room. The swat got my attention IMMEDIATELY, and the hours spent in my room without TV, or friends, or anything remotely fun was the punishment.

But there was more to it than just that. When I did something I wasn't suppose to, I experienced something unpleasant. When I did something right, I was rewarded with approval. When I saw how my older brother and sister got money for doing chores, I wanted to work too. I learned that "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch."

When my parents took me out shopping or to a restaurant, if I misbehaved my mom wouldn't think twice about swatting me on my behind and marching me out of the store in full view of everyone telling not only me, but everyone within earshot how disappointed she was that I was misbehaving. It's was bad enough to misbehave, but to misbehave in public was even worse.

Then I see my nephew, who was disciplined just as all us kids were growing up, but instead of working around the house to earn money, had everything he wanted given to him. He got an X-box, a computer, a cell phone, a DVD player, a color TV......all in his room so when his parents (my sister and her second husband, my nephew's step-father) didn't want to deal with him, they could just send him to his room. Not much of a punishment as it was when I was a child.

As a result, when his family doesn't just give him what he wants, he gets angry and blames all his problems on us. His parents always told him "When you're an adult, you can do what you want." But they failed to instill in him any sense of responsebility for his actions. So he does what he wants, and then blames everyone else when he gets in trouble.

I think whether or not a parent disciplines their child or not is only part of the problem. I've seen parents come in my store who's children are absolute little monsters. One little 5-year-old actually punched his mother in the leg when she told him to stop doing something and yelled "NO!" back at her. When she didn't march him outside and tan his hide, I felt the spirit of my mother, my grandmother, and all my maternal ancestors speaking through me when I looked over my glasses at the child and said "Oh no you did NOT just hit your Mother in MY store young man! I may not be able to spank you myself, but if you EVER do that again I will make sure you NEVER come into MY STORE EVER AGAIN!" The boy's eye's got really wide, and he he cowered behind his mother, behind the same leg that he'd just punched and had a bruised starting to show up. He behaved himself for the rest of the time his mother was shopping, always looking to see if I was watching him.....and I watched that kid like a hawk until they left. He did not misbehave again while he was in the store.

Granted, they never came BACK to my store either. But that's ok too. I can do without misbehaving children OR parents who refuse to control their kids and let them run wild. I like children, I like "well behaved" children, not screaming little monsters who grab whatever they want off the displays and break it, then punch their mom when she tells them "Oh honey, don't do that.".....and then their parents refuse to pay for the broken merchandise....teaching their child that they can do whatever they want and not have to take responsebility for their actions.

I've always felt that a parents primary job is to teach their children to be responsible adults. Adolesence is kind of a probationary period, where children make the mistakes they are bound to and hopefully learn from them. And once they turn 18 it doesn't mean they have attained "adulthood", but that they must start learning how to be an adult, because after that time no one will treat them like a child anymore. If their parents have done their job, then their children know what is expected of them by the society they are born into and it's an easy transition. If their parents haven't, then that kid is in for a world of disappointment....kinda like my nephew.

[Mytical]

As usual Sage put it a lot more eloquently then I could ever have. Sage is good at that :D. If I learn somebody has been beating a kid, I would be the first one to want them thrown UNDER the jail. Anybody hurting/harming kids I just can not stand. Discipline is another thing entirely.

People say "You don't have to discipline your child to get them to behave". No..you don't have to BEAT a child to get them to behave. I promise you, the little swats on the behind? Those only hurt the pride, but they get the message across. You are doing wrong, stop now. The wail of the child has nothing to do with being hurt.

I am a 6'0 250+ lb guy who really fears no person, but I wouldn't even consider raising my hand to my parents. Ever. They TAUGHT me better. Have they made me mad enough I wanted to tear my hair out. Of course, but not once would I even dream of harming a hair on their head, and woe be to anybody else who tried also.

Abusers are evil..and I am sorry if anybody has ever been abused. GOOD parents can discipline without harm (well maybe not without harming the kids pride :p).

Edit : Feel like I should give my own example :). See my sister once hired me as a live in babysitter (since I was cheap lol). She was one of those that let the kids get away with anything, and would NEVER discipline them (besides 'time outs', and then she'd cave if they whined enough).

When she asked me to babysit. I said I had only one requirement. If needed I could discipline the kids as I saw fit. She agreed.

Not once did I have to. Sure I wrestled with them, etc..but that was play. When I said something, they did it. Why? Two reasons. 1) They knew I WOULD discipline them. 2) I have a very commanding voice when I want.

One time my nephew hit his mother. I stood up, slowly, and looked at him. He started bawling and apologizing. Just from a look. He never raised his hand to his mother, ever again. I never had to lay a finger on him. Just the knowledge that I was mad at him was enough.