Food attitudes, misinformation, and the media

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I probably shouldn't even start this because all it's gonna do is piss me off.

It's a list of things that fall under the same umbrella:
In no particular order,

1. Doctors who parrot misinformation because they are too fucking lazy to keep up with research.

2. The media, who continue to perpetrate faulty information about health dietary habits, even though their info has been proved wrong time and time again.

3. People in general who ignore hard evidence.

4. Drug companies who know that, for instance, statins are a sham and what we've been told about cholestrol is horseshit, yet contine to peddle their snake oil regardless of the harm they do.

5. People who ask me how I stay slim and healthy, and then when I tell them, go "Oh, you jsut have a high metabolism." Um, no, I don't. I just told you how. Thanks for calling me a liar.

6. People who say "well, you can't eat a fatty diet long term, it will kill you." Really, asshole? When's that gonna happen? About the time your low fat diet starts working for you? Can I put that on my calendar? Cuz I HAVE been doing this long term.

See, I'm getting worked up just thinking about this stuff. :mad:

[the_std]

People just say those kinds of things to feel better about themselves... I wouldn't put too much faith in it. But it is ridiculously frustrating, none the less. My sister is one of those people. She works out constantly and is always looking for the next diet that will take her down a few pounds. Never mind that she's got tons of muscle and that's what makes her heavy, not the fat on her body. Never mind that you need SOME fat to stay alive. It was so depressing living with a gorgeous sister and hearing nothing but bitching about her looks.

And, well, I'm not surprised that people will continue to sell that shit. It's all about the money. It's sad, but it's how people are, unfortunately.

[AFPheonix]

Heh. We have a fairly new pharmacist on staff who made the mistake of buying one of those "system cleansers" back with us in the pharmacy.
She couldn't answer me when I asked her what toxins exactly she was planning on flushing out of her system.

She's a bloody Pharm D and SHE buys into that crap. Holy hell.

[Boozy]

5. People who ask me how I stay slim and healthy, and then when I tell them, go "Oh, you jsut have a high metabolism." Um, no, I don't. I just told you how. Thanks for calling me a liar.

This one pisses me off, too.

I was at a work gathering and passed on dessert. This was during the Christmas season, and I had been eating a lot of crap in general. My co-worker says to me, "Oh, you don't need to skip dessert! Look how skinny you are!" I told her I stayed slim by passing on desserts every so often.

You should have seen the look she gave me. Like I killed the enjoyment she was going to get from that cake. Women can have such complicated relationships with food.

Regarding the detox fad: My boss does a three-day fast once a season. She can't name the toxins it removes from her system either. She also thinks plastic water bottles give you cancer, and she won't even go near a microwave.

Pseudo-science pisses me off in general.

[DarthRetard]

The only thing I have to disagree with here is the science behind cleansers....I know that working at GNC doesn't make me some kind of certified pharmacist or nutritionalist or expert, or anything, but it really does all depend on the consumer doing their own research.

Personally, at my store, we made a pact to never sell it if it didn't work, cause it only would fuck us over in the end anyways with returns and more work.

It really is recommended to do a cleanser every 6 months (it's not necessary, and I don't personally recommend any more than that), and I do them, and it really does help, especially if you'e trying to kick certain habits, like caffeine, etc. It really did help me break my caffeine addication, by doing a 7 day cleanser that we sold, and I was only trying it to see if it really did work.

Other than checking the ingredients for certain things, a good cleanser will provide the probiotic replacement supplements as well. If it doesn't, it's a crock of shit.

[powerboy]

What I hate, is when I tell the reason why I do something and have that person jump me for it.

[AFPheonix]

A live culture yogurt will give you probiotics, too. But hey, if you like the way it makes you feel, more power to you. I just happen to suspect that there's a bit of placebo effect going on.

The main problem with reusing single-use water bottles is that we really can't get them very clean, and they can harbor bacteria from your backwash pretty well.

The harder plastic, like from Nalgene bottles do leach a certain kind of hormone into the water, especially if you've filled it with boiling water, so that can be an issue. The safest ones are the soft-sided plastic reusable containers and stainless steel ones.

[DarthRetard]

I have one of those Brita water filters, and it works great for me.

[lordlundar]

I saw a comedian who does a great George Burns impression (almost identical to the real McCoy) who had the joke "I met a man who was a real health freak, he ate only organic food, exercised every day and all that jazz. He died at 54 of absolutely nothing." Yeah, I know, I can't deliver.:p That's not the point.

My point is that doctors, nutritionists, etc. all say "this is bad for you, that is bad for you, this will kill you, etc." and six months later do a complete flip-flop. To date, I haven't found a single food item that they say won't kill me. To that point, I say "To hell with it, I die happy."

[Nekojin]

It really is recommended to do a cleanser every 6 months (it's not necessary, and I don't personally recommend any more than that), and I do them, and it really does help, especially if you'e trying to kick certain habits, like caffeine, etc. It really did help me break my caffeine addication, by doing a 7 day cleanser that we sold, and I was only trying it to see if it really did work.

Just a random statistic: Caffeine has a short addiction/withdrawal cycle. If you go cold-turkey on caffeine, you'll usually have extreme headaches (not migraine level) for 3-5 days, then you'll be free of the addiction. If your diet while taking the cleaner included abstaining from caffeine at the same time, then the cleaner didn't do anything for you that your own self-discipline didn't.

[DarthRetard]

While that might be all well and good, Nekojin, I'm quite aware of the caffeine headaches (at my high point of caffeine addiction i was drinking entire 12 packs a day fo regular coca-cola. *shudder*), and yes, the cleanser can help, and it's usually recommended to do the cleanser BEFORE you diet, so the effects aren't as bad.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Okay, this article my sister sent me pissed me off so bad I broke into a light sweat and had to take my fleece off.

If I die of high blood pressure, I can assure you it wont' be because of my dietary habits. :mad:

See, this is what I'm talking about. It's not about what's healthy. It's about who gets paid. Check out this shit about the American Diabeties Association. Having likely just missed falling victim to adult onset diabeties myself (If I dont' watch my sugar, I have the pre-diabetic condition described in this article) and also having been diagnosed with gestational diabeties, I know how they try to treat the problem and let me tell you, Constant Reader, we are talking about some serious fuckery and foul dealings. There's no money to be had in people getting well. Read on (an I apologize for the ungainly link):

http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=health&category=other.diseases.ailments&conitem=4a935e4e40fae010VgnVCM20000012281eac____&cm_mmc=GMA-_-Five%20Reasons%20Youre%20Still%20Fat-_-Article-_-The%20Cure%20for%20Diabetes&page=0&print=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.menshealth.com%2Fcda%2Farticl e.do%3Fsite%3DMensHealth%26channel%3Dhealth%26cate gory%3Dother.diseases.ailments%26conitem%3D4a935e4 e40fae010VgnVCM20000012281eac____%26cm_mmc%3DGMA-_-Five%2520Reasons%2520Youre%2520Still%2520Fat-_-Article-_-The%2520Cure%2520for%2520Diabetes%26page%3D0

[Seshat]

That is really, really weird. The advice I get for my insulin resistance is to eat a low glycaemic index diet: essentially, a diet designed specifically to control my blood sugar.

The GI (glycaemic index) researchers calculate the index with empirical testing: I'm not sure of their exact method but it's something like taking a roomful of volunteers who're in a neutral digestive state, getting their blood sugar, feeding them a measured amount of the food to be tested, then tracking their blood sugar until it drops to rest state again. Something with a high sugar spike and a rapid fall-off rate gets a high mark on the GI scale (like high fructose corn syrup, white bread, or sugar). Something with a slow sugar rise and a slow fall off gets a low mark on the GI scale (oat porridge, lean meat, most legumes).

Essentially, I can eat anything I like - but if I want to control my insulin resistance, I should eat foods and food combinations that my body can only digest reasonably slowly. And at about the point my body is finishing digesting the last meal, I should eat my next meal; this will prevent me getting into a sugar low that makes me crave sugar NOWNOWNOW. And if I never eat anything with a high glycaemic index, I never get a sugar spike either.

And a low GI diet doesn't actually exclude any food groups, just specific foods. So it's not a nutrition risk (unless it's done stupidly.)

Anyway: that's what my medical community recommends for diabetics. Do that, do exercise (since exercise also lowers insulin resistance), and if those don't work out, we'll try giving you metformin and insulin as well. (Not instead, but as well.)

It really disturbs me that another first world country's medical community DOESN'T do that.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

In this country, they don't want you well. They want you in a state where you have to buy drugs from Big Pharma.

There's no money to be had from well people.

You're doing it right. Hang onto your doctor. I actually got told to eat more sugar to raise my glucose levels. By a doctor. You know what happens to hypoglycemics when they eat more sugar?

They fucking pass out when their sugar drops suddenly after the initial rush.

I was on another board some time ago talking about the absolute madness and asshatery that I was subject to when I was pregnant. I found it and copied and pasted it because it's long. It's copied from another site, but I wrote it, so...here it is.

I had to leave for a while but I want to post this story that happened to me. I was diagnosed with gestational diabeties when I was pregnant. Of course, the test is that they give you 100 cc's of pure glucose to shotgun, then take your blood sugar at intervals.

I don't consume sugar. So yeah, I drink that stuff,. my body goes "What the f$#k is this???" and goes into a tail spin. You wanna talk about sick? Gaaaah. Anyway, I had to take my glucose levels very frequently for the duration of my pregnancy. My sugar was only high on a couple of occasions:

1. If I ate a very large portion of food, then didn't exercise (on of the things I did learn that was useful was that if you eat too much protein at once, it will actually turn into glucose and affect your sugar. Like an excessive steak or two really large burgers when one would do.

2. If I was in the midst of one of their stupid glucose tests. Yes, I will TEST high...but since I don't eat that stuff, it's never a problem.

So anyway, here I am in the class they made me take on how to manage my diabeties. The diet they recommended would have been far, far more detrimental to my health than the one I normally follow. I told the instructor that. I didn't want to be the jerk in the class, but I had to be honest with her. I had to say, "look, no. I'm not eating the bread. I am not eating the pasta. I am not going to INCREASE my intake of foods that are bad for me that will make this worse."

Needless to say, I was less than popular in that class.

So anyway, I bet most of you are not suprised that they served those packs of unnaturally orange peanut butter crackers as a snack to a bunch of pregnant chicks that had been diagnosed with gestational diabeties. I was thinking "This is some kind of gag. " So of course, I declined. The instructor was scandalized that I wouldn't eat this crapola. She said "I have some string cheese. Will you at least eat that?" So I said, sure, cheese is great. Thanks, I'd love some.

Little while after that, we learned to use our glucose monitors, and we are jabbing away and as it turns out, my glucose level was textbook perfect. Lady behind me was discovered to have sugar low enough to raise concern, so juice was called for.

Wait for it...wait for it...

The person that fetched the juice brought it to me. After all, I'm the hard headed little twit that wouldn't eat. So surely, I had to be the one with the hypoglycemia.

I took great innocent pleasure in telling them no, I was fine. Perfect. The young lady behind me was the one in need of a glucose boost.

Yeah, keep on pushing that damned food pyramid. The drug companies love that thing.

[DesignFox]

I don't know what to say.... :(

I read that article you posted Kinkoid and your story.

I'm...shocked.

It makes sense, though.

Seshat- I'm curious about something. In Australia, do you see drug commercials on TV and in magazines? I mean from pharmaceutical companies for medicine.

We see them all the time in the States, and I find it disturbing. Shouldn't drugs be advertised to the doctors who may require the research in helping treat patients? Why should a patient be asking their doctor about drugs? :confused:

[Seshat]

We see very few prescription drugs advertised (over the counter ones, yes, but not prescription drugs). Those that are, are advertised in a 'blah can be cured, see your doctor' way. And usually they're for illnesses which have been incurable for a long time.

Australian food guides:

Nutrition Australia (http://www.nutritionaustralia.org/Food_Facts/Fact_Sheets/about%20_the_healthy_eating_pyramid.asp)
CSIRO (http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:Hat5O97puwAJ:www.csiro.au/proprietaryDocuments/12345_Plan.pdf+food+pyramid&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au&client=firefox-a) (PDF viewed as HTML courtesy of Google)

[DesignFox]

Oh, I'm not saying the commercial's don't advise you to see a doctor, but we seem to be inundated with prescription drug commercials. I wanted to see if it was the same elsewhere. Thanks. :)

I just don't think the drug companies should be advertising to lay-people- at least, not nearly as extensively as they are.

[ArenaBoy]

This is why I avoid print media along with TV. Don't have to see much of those insipid ads.

[Seshat]

No problem. I think I've seen - or maybe noticed - about three different ad campaigns for prescription drugs in the last year. And only a few ads for each campaign. Like, maybe I've seen five billboards total, I've not noticed any magazine ads, and I think I've seen two different TV commercials. Maybe.

That said, I'm pretty good at filtering out ads, and I don't drive, and I don't watch much TV. So some other Aussie may have a different answer.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I have the same kinds of issues with the Dairy Industry. I am a raw milk devotee. I've suffered from terrible allergies all my life and drinking raw milk is the only thing that helps.

Unfortunately the Dairy Industry and the FDA claim that drinking raw milk is like 'playing Russian Roulette with your health'. Nevermind that millions of people all over the world do so, everyday. Many states outlaw raw milk entirely; others make you jump thru so many hoops to get it it is ridiculous. I have to get my milk from a Washington state dairy and have it shipped down here once a week. I pay nearly 10 dollars a gallon for it...but there is nothing else like raw milk.

[Rapscallion]

The environmental health folks run courses on basic food safety, and I had to attend one. Amusingly enough, they brought up unpasteurised milk as a major health risk, citing an unnamed wannabe bodybuilder who took advice from other bodybuilders for growing his body mass. He'd been told that raw milk was better, so he drank loads. He allegedly got so sick he lost two stones (nearly thirty pounds) in a month and took ages to recover.

A hand from a certain furry bastard went up. "I drank that for the first twenty-five years of my life," he said. He patted his ample gut. "I'm certainly wasting away!"

They didn't like me after that.

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

Adults who were not raised on unpasteurized milk should not start drinking it in large quantities. That's why that guy got sick. You need to build up a resistance to the natural bacteria slowly over time.

Once you've done so, there's a lot of health benefits to drinking raw milk. The bacteria is good for you, as long as your body knows how to handle it.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

Yes, Boozy is exactly right. Ingesting anything in large amounts is not good for you. I drink 2 small glasses of raw milk a day. I started with one small glass a day, and after a month started drinking it more often. I also make butter out of the raw cream by shaking it in a mason jar. Before this, I was completely lactose intolerant...pasteurized dairy still gives me bad symptoms, and I avoid it like the plague.

Scientists did a study on 15,000 European children regarding allergies. They wanted to understand why rural farm children were much less likely to develop them. They studied kids from all different backgrounds extensively over a long period of time and what they discovered is that children who were fed raw milk on a regular basis---no matter where they were from, city or country---had a distinctly lower rate of developing allergies as they grew.

I love my raw milk. My body loves the stuff and runs like a well-oiled machine when I drink it regularly.

[Seshat]

Pasteurisation was a great boon in an era where many of the dairy cattle had undiagnosed, untreated illnesses, and where there was no refrigeration, little or no food safety, and peoples' milk jugs might have been 'cleaned' in dirty water from a well downstream of a privy.

I think it's obvious that it may not be as important now as it was then. Time for some new studies.

[MMATM]

Sorry to any pharmacists/doctors/etc here, in advance of what I'm about to say.

All the following paragraphs have been shortened for the sake of the reader (they were all pretty verbose before).

Short version of paragraph: I have really good doctors and my parents are very helpful, so they are not to blame for any of the following.

Short version of paragraph: I have cystic fibrosis (CF).

Short version of paragraph: As a result of this CF, I must take a lot of medications on pain of death or permanent disability, and have taken many of them since I was an infant, including digestive enzyme supplements.

Short version of paragraph: I worked as a camp counselor at an overnight camp one recent summer, during which I could not take said medications and so skipped all but the digestive enzymes.

Short version of paragraph: For the last two weeks of the summer, I skipped all medications entirely. My parents and doctors assumed that I would end up extremely, irrevocably sick.

Short version of paragraph: Despite my parents'/doctors' beliefs, I actually improved over the course of the summer simply by living an active lifestyle. However, when I returned to school and all the medicines, I rapidly worsened after about a month.

Short version of paragraph: The following year, I was much more disciplined in taking all prescribed medications, and was rewarded with my worst health to date, including severe hypoxemia throughout the last week or so before graduation, and several hospitalizations which prevented me from competing for the track team of which I was captain.

Short version of paragraph: The best medicines in the world cannot make up for a healthy way of life. "Healthy" is determined by the individual. I have not been hospitalized in over 17 months (wish I could say a year and a half but I can't) and am taking fewer medications now than I used to, but am walking more and farther, and becoming more physically active (longboard club and paintball team).

[Boozy]

I am glad that you have taken control of your own health and found something that works for you. :)

But you are one person. There are countless others who need the medications that you don't.

It doesn't mean the medications are crap or the doctors are wrong in thinking they might help. It just means that MMATM's individual body does better on less medication. This won't be true of everyone, and you can't condemn the entire medical profession based on your one personal experience.

[ThePhoneGoddess]

I don't think MMATM was condemning the entire medical profession. He did express his faith in his doctors for their expertise and care. I think he (she?) is like most Americans and coming to the realization that what we were taught about the American medical profession as a whole is no longer true.

We have always been taught to treat Doctors with the utmost respect and defer to whatever they might recommend without protest, even if it goes against our better judgment, because they are, well, Doctors! Of course they know better than us. Unfortunately, we are constantly subjected to drug peddling from drug manufacturers, who shower the medical profession here with gifts and money in order to get them to prescribe certain drugs. They have also transformed the FDA's approval process from an actual process to determine if a drug is hazardous or helpful, to a political game whereby if they can jump through enough hoops, the FDA will approve a drug no matter what studies say. Americans are learning the hard way that we can no longer place blind faith in the medical profession.

[Boozy]

Americans are learning the hard way that we can no longer place blind faith in the medical profession.

I can definitely agree with that. Its important for everyone to do what MMATM did, and find out what works for them.

[MMATM]

But you are one person. There are countless others who need the medications that you don't.

It doesn't mean the medications are crap or the doctors are wrong in thinking they might help. It just means that MMATM's individual body does better on less medication. This won't be true of everyone, and you can't condemn the entire medical profession based on your one personal experience.
Your point is perfect, well made, and entirely true. Especially the first part whole thing. I didn't mean for my comments to come across that way, though. I meant more to demonstrate that what other people (or even you) believe is the best remedy for the situation is not always what is right, and so there is no simple answer to any medical problem, as every individual's body is unique. Ironically, I'm at University (undergrad) right now to eventually become a doctor, if I end up having the money and the luck I'm going to need.

I don't think MMATM was condemning the entire medical profession. He did express his faith in his doctors for their expertise and care. I think he (she?) is like most Americans and coming to the realization that what we were taught about the American medical profession as a whole is no longer true.
He. ;)
And you read me right. I used to take everything just because "mom/dad/the doctor said so" but I'm coming to understand (through both experience and studies) that what seems like the best solution is not always ideal, and that there are many ways to attack every problem. At the best, I may end up learning to live a much more "normal" life by minimizing the medicines I need through careful selection and implementation of lifestyle, habits, and the medicines themselves. At worst, I'll have one hell of a doctorate thesis to write about myself. :D