Telemarketers and salesmen: Right to invade your home???

[ditchdj]

It seems that the argument I hear in favor of these salespeople is that they have a First Amendment right to literally shove advertising into every single tiny nook and cranny in our lives. We MUST be allowed to be hounded to buy something at anytime, even if we're in the "privacy" of our own homes. I dont see it that way. The way I see it is that I think of my home as my own territory, my own country. When you intrude uninvited into MY "country" you're here illegally and you've violated my sovereignty.
My phone line also counts as part of it as well. The ONLY way you can reach into my home uninvited is through the internet (since I can block users from contacting me on the net through settings anyway).

[Scottya21]

It always seems odd to me that people get so incensed about this issue, when they generally waste a maximum of a couple seconds of your time for you to say "no thanks" and hang up (or slam the door in their face). But yes, it's annoying.

As far as the privacy of your house extending into your phone, interesting concept... do *you* own the phoneline? I think it's really the phone company, and they offer you service , or something? *shrug*

[rahmota]

Scotty say it takes 5 seconds to recognize a telemarketer and then hang up on him. Not even saying boo to them. Multiply that by 20-30 times a day (about average for some people that are popular on those lists) over an entire week. that is about 2 minutes a day 15 minutes a week or so. True doesnt seem like a lot but imagine a kid poking you in the arm going hey wanna buy this? Hey wanna buy this? For that entire time. Not a grievious crime but definately an annoyance. Some people dont want to put up with that annoyance especially in their own homes which is supposed to be a bastion of personal space and privacy from which none may enter without permission.

So I like the old concept of the motte and bailey where the walls of my castle are my zone. You may have the right to approach the gate but I have the right to pull the drawbridge up and say nee! to you.

As for the phone lines. I own from the box into the home. The phone company owns from the box to the road. The interface box is half and half. So yes I do own the phoneline inside my house. And can do whatever I want to with it including caller id, answering device, filters etc...

[Scottya21]

Of course, here in the U.S. at least there's the do-not-call list... I hear there are loopholes, but it's a start.

If you really want a bastion, you could turn off the phone. Or screen with an answering machine. Perhaps the privelege of having a phone comes with certain entanglements in this day and age. Kind of like internet pages, where things are generally paid for with ads.

I also wonder, if *companies* aren't allowed to solicit on the phone, what about private citizens? Do I have to have your explicit permission to phone your home, or can I call you if I have a good reason?

Just thoughts.

[ditchdj]

As a matter of fact yesterday when I wasnt home some stupid punk decided to rip off my "No Soliciting" sign and throw it on the ground and hang up a Sigecom advertisement on my front door. :mad: You approve of that Scotty??? How would you feel? Did you know that you can be arrested for trespassing if you went to someone's door selling something if there's a no soliciting sign and you chose to disregard it???? The thing that burns me up is the lack of respect. Personally I dont care what people do, just as long as it doesnt negatively affect me.

[rahmota]

They actually took down your no soliciting sign and replaced it with a company logo?:eek: Good grief. where are the mutant ill tempered sea bass when you need them.

That right there is Criminal Tresspass (which technicaly under Ohio law is anytime someone is on private property without permission of the owner posted or not, posting just gives you more legal leverage for misdemeaner charges) charges and vandalism charges right there. Especially if they damaged the sign or the item the sign was mounted onto. The first is generally a midemeaner but the second is a variable depending on cost of items damaged under Ohio Law.

I've had people tear down my No hunting/No tresspassing signs thinking that my farm is a giant wildlife area but then I have also chased people off at gunpoint (Gods I love living in the country) often enough that I have the local rep of being that gun nut you better ask permission to be on his land beofer going on there or he'll shoot you. Which works for the most part better than the signs. But I still have the signs up to remind people that this land is my land, not your land.

And I'll go with DitchDj about the respect thing. This is my land, my property. My home and hearth. You want to come here and be welcomed then respect me, respect my wishes and respect my property. Do that and I will treat you well according to who wand what you are here for. A business person is goign to be treated different than a close friend or family. To translate that into redneck you wanna come in my house dont spit on me, talk down to me or kick my dog unless you want to be goign to a proctologist to get my boot out of somewhere. i go to your house I'm not going to be kickign your dog (unless he pees on me or something but still) or disrespecting you. Thats what pushy telemarketers and folks like what did DJ's porch do. they are not respecting your privacy, your home, your property or your wishes.

What they are doing is wrong on many different levels. We go out in public we expect to have a certain degree of immersion in advertising and a certain lessoning in privacy. That is the cost of going out into the world. When we come home though that is our sanctum sanctorum. Our sanctuary where we can relax, unwind and lower our personal shields within the walls of our fortress keeping the barbarians out. In a perfect world that phrase would not have to be taken quite so litterally.

[ditchdj]

I just reported it to Sigecom and the lady was really nice about it and told me that someone in sales will be contacting me about the incident later this week.

[rahmota]

Well good luck with that. I hope they do accept responsibility for that. I doubt it will do much but hey one can hope.

[Seshat]

Thread necromancy! WhoooOOOOOOoooooo!

Ahem.

I've been thinking about telemarketing and such recently, and I've got a point I rarely see made in telemarketing discussions.

It takes 'five seconds' to deal with them, according to most of the 'pro' side. Well, aside from the fact that it never does - what about the handicapped?

Some disabilities (including mine) operate according to the Spoon Theory (http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/2004/11/the_spoon_theory.php). Every activity takes a certain amount of energy and effort (analogised to 'spoons', and you have a limited amount of effort ('number of spoons').

For me, getting to the phone, listening to the spiel, trying to figure out if this person is a telemarketer or is a genuine call, and then trying to get the telemarketer to actually listen to 'Please take me off your list and never call again', is effort I resent.

And I don't think it's fair or reasonable to expect me to get an answering machine and screen my calls just because someone else thinks they're entitled to call random numbers. Whoever thinks that can buy the damn answering machines for me and everyone else who doesn't want to be marketed to, thank you very much.

I pay for phone service for my benefit, not for the telemarketing companies'. But call-screening answering machines are for the telemarketing companies' benefit, not for mine - they're a reason those companies think they can continue to operate, after all.

Not to mention that checking the messages on the machine and scrolling through any telemarketing messages is another spoon or two lost. Spent for the benefit of these other companies, not for me.

And I've got a long list of things that I do need. An answering machine shouldn't be one of them.

So yeah - I really do resent spending money and effort for the benefit of greedy bastards who make a profit off wasting other peoples' lives. And some of us have less effective-life than others - every 'spoon' is precious to me.

[NightAngel]

I don't get telemarketing calls anymore. I never answer my phone unless I know the number on my Caller ID. Period. Never.
I also never check my voice mail... so they can't leave messages because the box is full.
When I get home I check to see if anyone called and if they did I simply call them back.

After about a year of never answering- they all stopped calling.

My phone sits in blissful silence 99% of the time.

As far as it goes- I understand that it's a job and that people have to pay their bills somehow. However, to be completely truthful, I absolutely can't stand being called by telemarketers either.
I always try and be nice.
Unless they keep calling after I've told them not to... then I get mad. I'll admit it.

[AFPheonix]

I don't have a landline, so I don't get hardly any telemarketing calls at all. However, it annoys the living hell out of me when I get the occasional recorded call on my cell. I usually do answer my phone now that I don't have crazy church people calling me, because I've got ads out on several of my horses and I don't want to miss calls from potential buyers.
If it was a warm body I could tell them to take my phone off the list since it's kind of illegal to be soliciting on my cell, but it never is a person, only a recorded message.

[rahmota]

Get the name of the company and report them to the state attorney general's office as it is more than kinda illegal its downright illegal to telemarket mobile phones.

There's just no excuse for telemarketing and any "profit" generated by it has to be offset by the illtempers and feelings generated by it too. You haave to wonder why companies still do it (aside from its cheap and they can program a computer to do it)

[Seshat]

Get the name of the company and report them to the state attorney general's office as it is more than kinda illegal its downright illegal to telemarket mobile phones.


Getting the name of the company is well-nigh impossible. I've tried, many times.

I'm actually getting telemarketing calls from the States, and when I tell the caller that they've reached a person in Australia, they're shocked. Evidence, to me, that signing up for our country's Do Not Call list isn't going to stop the rot - and I'm ineligible to sign up for the US Do Not Call list, not being in the States.

Listening to my husband or flatmate on a telemarketer call often goes like this:
"I want your company name and I want to speak to your supervisor."
"Please tell me the name of your company."
"It shouldn't be hard: who's employing you?"
"Who's paying your paycheck - that's your company."
"No, I don't want to hear about the offer. Just tell - heck, just transfer me to your supervisor."
"Your supervisor."
"Yes, I want to talk to your supervisor."
"Don't swear at me. Just transfer me to your supervisor."
(sigh) "They hung up."


(We gave up on 'Take me off your list.' Most of the actual call agents either didn't understand it or couldn't do it.)

[AFPheonix]

I can't even imagine how an auto dialer would be allowed to dial country codes and foreign phone numbers. How odd.

[protege]

I don't get many telemarketers calling me either. Mainly, because I'm never home :p What few I get, take my "I'm not interested" politely, and don't call back. Those that are rude, or call back multiple times, I go after with both barrels. Sorry, but I don't take kindly to having my time wasted.

What took the cake though, was the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette calling my workplace *multiple* times all damn day trying to get new subscribers. We must have gotten several dozen calls from those idiots. After about the third one, I was pissed, and the gloves came off. I remember telling the guy that we'd gotten several calls, we weren't interested, and to quit calling. Didn't stop them--it took multiple requests for supervisors, and the threat of not only pressing harassment charges, but canceling our own home subscriptions as well. That did the trick ;)

[Dreamstalker]

My mom was (they haven't called recently) being called nonstop for a while by a nonprofit organization from one of the Indian reservations (I think it was in the Four Corners area). Said group does produce a catalog of fairly nice handmade items for sale to support their efforts; I would purchase or support them otherwise if only I had the money.

She told them a number of times that calling cell phones is illegal, and got "we're a nonprofit". Is there some loophole in the Do Not Call/telemarketing laws that shields nonprofits?

I know that "prior business relationships" (sorry, I don't consider shopping programs/life insurance/credit monitoring/whatever that's "calling on behalf of <bank>" as a prior business relationship) are exempt, but...we had no prior business transactions with the group. Other than them sending catalogs, mom's cell number is not associated with the address they had so I have no idea how they got it.

[Seshat]

I can't even imagine how an auto dialer would be allowed to dial country codes and foreign phone numbers. How odd.

I can't figure it out either.

On the other hand, a free Bahamas holiday would be nice. I can't imagine ever getting there any normal way - not from here. ;)

[rahmota]

Sometimes they'll mention the company name in their call. Otherwise I'd just report whatever company is the one mentioned in the ad. I'm sure that happens enough time the ad agency is going to hear about it.....

Although I did get one company to stop one time as the convo went like this:
ME: I need to know your name, your supervisor's name and your companies name.
Them: Ummm why do you need all that sir?
ME: SO that I can report you personally, your supervisor and your comanpy to the state attorney general's office for violating the Do Not call list I have signed up with.

*click* was their response. Wow. Sometimes it does work.
Also hanging up on any computer voiced call. No matter what it is. It could be the sign of the second coming and I'll miss it if its done with acomputer call. I hate that. "We have an important call for you but all of our operators are busy" If its soooo important you have to call me about it then you could at least give me a human to talk to you know?

Seshat: Yeah I dont understand how a wardialer could call australia from america. Unless somebody programmed that baby a bit loose. Whew maybe next time you should see how long you can string them along to run their phone bill up. Try for at least an hour as international calls have got to be expensive.

Dreamstalker: I think non-profits are exempt from the DNC list as otherwise how would all the churches and other fund raising groups be able to get ahold of you as well as teh politician's and other political groups during the lections get their important messages out?

[Seshat]

Otherwise I'd just report whatever company is the one mentioned in the ad.

I'm confused now - mentioned in what ad?

Telemarketers over here have incredibly long spiels, often over a minute long, before they give you a chance to speak without interrupting. And these spiels seem designed to avoid tipping you off that they're actually going to get you to buy something, and definitely to avoid telling you the company name or any pertinent information for a complaint.

Which is, of course, one of the reasons they piss me off so much. And one reason I've learned to break into business calls and interrupt people - which doubtless annoys legitimate businesses who call me. :( I can't win, and that really irritates. :mad:

[Rubystars]

Imagine a situation where a relative or friend is in the hospital, and you're waiting to hear news. Maybe your child is severely sick in the neo natal care unit, and you don't know if they're going to live or die.

You know the call is coming and you're both frightened and anticipating the phone call. You hear the phone ring, and you rush to pick up the phone.

Instead of the hospital, you hear a telemarketer. While you're dealing with that, the hospital tries to call you.

[Dreamstalker]

Interesting situation, I'm wondering if in a case like that the company could be held responsible for something (if say the call from the hospital was regarding time-sensitive emergency treatment).

I'd like to see something in place that requires "sales" to show up on caller ID whenever a call center tries to call someone. I can't completely ignore numbers that show up as "unknown" as a couple friends/family members/doctors offices have numbers that don't show up (two are because of old/misconfigured PBX systems, one hides their number anyway and one works in a government office so Caller ID is blocked at the source).

That, or a version of the challenge-response spam filter for voice calls.

[rahmota]

Sorry seshat I meant in the ad as in the call. Ah heck with trying to please them its your phone your house if they get bent about you asking them to cut to the chase obviously they need to get a grip. A real business can understand whats goin on and get to the point a lot sooner. Besides from teh ones I've dealt with they like being able to give you the info, get your info back and then get going. Saves a lot of time and hassle.

Rubystars: Situations like that I'd immediately hang up if it wasnt who I was expecting. No explanations, no commentary just click gone. Family comes before anything and everything else. I recommend that method quite frequently anyhow.

Dreamstalker: Under the current pro-busines capitalist laws I sincerely doubt you could get the compnay held responsible. Unfortunately our laws are too forgiving on companies.

I'd like to see something in place that requires "sales" to show up on caller ID whenever a call center tries to call
yeah that would be a good idea. They still get to keep their phone number secret and hidden (somethign I dont like) and you still get the option of being able to screen the call. Sad to say I doubt that'll ever happen either.

[Seshat]

Sorry seshat I meant in the ad as in the call.

Ah. The ones who call my place tend to have great long spiels in which they don't mention a company name or what they're actually trying to sell you until long after I've lost my patience with them.

[rahmota]

The ones who call my place tend to have great long spiels in which they don't mention a company name or what they're actually trying to sell you until long after I've lost my patience with them.

Ah that sucks. Another reason to just say "Cut to the chase or its dialtone heaven for you.."

[powerboy]

.

As far as it goes- I understand that it's a job and that people have to pay their bills somehow. However, to be completely truthful, I absolutely can't stand being called by telemarketers either.
I always try and be nice.
Unless they keep calling after I've told them not to... then I get mad. I'll admit it.


Same here.

I hate being called on my phone or cell phone, from people i don't know. I once got a call about the 49ers playing against my cities PD. What kind of BS is that. After I found that out, I told them I am not interested. It only takes about 5 seconds to say that.

As far as door to door salesmen. I might buy, but most likely not at that time.

[Rubystars]

Just having the phone ring when you're expecting an important phone call is a bad thing. Even in the time it takes for you to realize it's not the person who was supposed to call you, your call could actually be trying to get through and hit a busy signal, or you could just be stressed out by the false alarm.