Women going topless

[Sylvia727]

I hadn’t really thought of this before, but it is a double standard. Why are men allowed to go topless when women aren’t? Take mowing the lawn for example. In my area, it’s pretty common to see a guy out there in shorts, shoes, and nothing else during the grass growing season. But women have to, at the bare minimum, wear shorts and an exercise bra. Swimming pools would be another area impacted. Why should women have to wear a two-piece suit when men are allowed to wear a one-piece?

I know some places have legislation allowing women to go topless…other places don’t. My area doesn’t. I think women should be allowed to go topless in the same areas men are. It wouldn’t be that big of a deal, I think, once the initial fervor settled down. How many people blink twice at a “No shirt, no shoes, no service,” sign? That’s all it would take to keep ‘sexuality’ out of public places. Breasts aren’t inherently sexual anymore, at least not more than bums, legs, or stomachs. If a guy can show his nipples, why can’t a gal?

[blas87]

I had a thread in social woes about my gym class in high school, we weren't allowed to wear tanktops, even in late May. The boys could play baseball shirtless because there was "nothing they could do about it", but the second we wanted to play volleyball in tanktops, we got in trouble.

A man's chest can be just as sexy. Or just as attention getting... Hell, some men HAVE large breasts like women if they are fat enough. But it's still not ok for a girl with breasts to go topless.....yet a 300 pound man with breasts as large as mine can.....that makes a whole lot of sense.

[DesignFox]

Probably because female breasts are considered sexual. Especially here in the states. We would need to do some serious revamping of sexual attitudes before women going topless would be acceptable to the masses.

Frankly, the horrid things young women wear nowadays...the last thing we need is an excuse for them to wear less. *shudder*

(some guys should be chased around and forced to wear shirts, too, mind)

Besides, what would happen to all the titty bars if all the guys could look for free? :p Think of the strippers! Think of the loss in profits! /joking

Maybe I'm a prude, but I like to keep my boobs to myself. I really don't want to see other women topless, either. *shrug* I guess my attitude would be different if my culture was different.

[Greenday]

DesignFox pretty much nailed this topic. Female breasts in America are sexual. That is EXACTLY why they have to be covered up. Guys' chests aren't sexual like women's. And I do think when a guy chest is as big as some women, they really should cover up too.

[Sylvia727]

Speaking as a hetero woman, guys' chests are very sexy. I admit there's more allure? romanticism? surrounding gals' chests, but that shouldn't deny me equal right to remove my shirt. I get sweaty when I mow the lawn or play sports too. If guys want to be perverted, they'll do it no matter what. And if John Q. Citizen happens to discreetly let his eyes stray for a few seconds, that wouldn't bother me. It happens now, when I'm wearing a bra, undershirt, and tee shirt. Should I wear a parka to protect the impressionable youth from my nekkidness? I'm not talking about baring all to the masses on every street corner, but in any situation where a guy can go shirtless, a gal should be able to as well.

[Greenday]

Seeing as most women probably would continue to wear tops, the only women who'd deal with gawking and staring are the ones asking for it by not wearing tops. We'll start getting sexual harassment cases. More complaints against staring, etc. etc.

[Sylvia727]

Well, in a realistic society, there would be a clear line drawn. Looking? Acceptable behavior. Gawking? Unacceptable behavior. Anything further than leering? Arrestable behavior. But I don't think it would be too huge of a problem. Most people, men and women both, wear clothing in public. One typically does not see topless men outside of swimming pools and private property. So one wouldn't typically wouldn't see topless women outside of those same areas.

the only women who'd deal with gawking and staring are the ones asking for it by not wearing tops.

First of all, I get gawked at too, and I do cover up. So I doubt that problem would solve itself by introducing more exciting targets. Secondly, personal responsibility is still personal responsibility. I'm not "asking for" people to leer at me topless, though of I course I acknowlege that people will look. People still have the responsibility of not acting like a creepy stalker.

[Greenday]

But there's absolutely no doubt that by peeling more clothing, you are going to attract more attention. It's guaranteed. And it sure as heck won't be good attention. If a woman is walking around topless in public, I'm going to stare. Maybe I'll stare because I'm attracted, maybe I'll stare because I can't believe a woman would actually do that. Maybe if it was legal for like 5-10 years straight it'd work. But it's going to be a crazy first few years if they ever legalize it.

[radiocerk]

The idea that a woman has to cover up more than a man is a dumb, sexist reminder of America's puritaniccal origins. What's wrong with breasts? Is the sight of a female nipple going to topple democracy?

Now, I'm very generously endowed. I'd get people staring if I wore a burka. I prefer to do my gardening and other sweat-enducing work in my bra. I probably wouldn't go completely topless, just for the support, but I get very unfriendly glares for being within sight in my brassiere.

Why do women get a hard time for breast-feeding in public? That's as non-sexual as a boob gets, but it seems to traumatize people.

Women should not be automatically declared "more sexual" than men just because we've got different chromosomes. It's a copout, and a way to cling to an old-fashioned and antiquated idea. It's a short step from that idea, to the idea that a girl in a mini-skirt, or a tight top is a "slut", and from that to the rape victim "asked for it."

We need to grow up as a society, and expect people to be more mature sexually than the typical 16 year old boy. Otherwise things will never change for the better.

[the_std]

I think the big thing that American society would need to instill to make women going topless seem acceptable is to let men know that they don't have to be ravaging, hormonal, rampaging beasts. The societal stereotype of any man is that he can't help but be a pervert, that he has no vestige of self-control. It then falls on the woman to keep her goodies under lock and key so that these poor, helpless men will be less influenced by their primal natures. It's a load of bullshit. They're more than capable of restraining themselves and we shouldn't have to be their nannies.

[Rapscallion]

I would imagine that if there was a major swing towards women going topless, the objections would die away. Not, I hasten to add, because people would enjoy the sight, but because it would be accepted as the norm.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization for a culture that had bare-breasted women as the norm.

Minoan men wore loincloths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loincloth) and kilts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilt). Women wore robes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robe) that were open to the navel, leaving their breasts exposed, and had short sleeves and layered flounced skirts. Women also had the option of wearing a strapless fitted bodice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodice), the first fitted garments known in history. The patterns on clothes emphasized symmetrical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry) geometric designs.

In response...

It then falls on the woman to keep her goodies under lock and key so that these poor, helpless men will be less influenced by their primal natures. It's a load of bullshit. They're more than capable of restraining themselves and we shouldn't have to be their nannies.

Feel free to start the trend of topless women. I won't ask for pictures. However, I will point out that 'should' doesn't always equate to reality.

Rapscallion

[Seshat]

The societal stereotype of any man is that he can't help but be a pervert, that he has no vestige of self-control. It then falls on the woman to keep her goodies under lock and key so that these poor, helpless men will be less influenced by their primal natures.

Which - as I've said before, and will say again - is hugely insulting to men. And places an impossible burden on women.

I've had any number of male doctors, ultrasound operators, and other medical people exposed to my naked body, and (gasp!) they've not turned into uncontrollable beasts.


As for women going topless in general: I'm in favour of the cultural change. But I won't be joining the topless women. I need the physical support.

I also probably won't be joining them for another reason: skin cancer. I'm alabaster-pale, and live under the ozone layer hole.

[IDrinkaRum]

It is legal in New York City for women to go topless if they so choose. It made the news about 10 or so years ago. The argument that won Womens rights to go topless was the argument that was mentioned earlier: Mens chests are just as sexually charged for people who find that attractive as womens chests are. So why should women have to cover up when men don't have to?

I am very well endowed (42DD bra size). However, I hate bras. I got braless as much as I can (especially in the house), but I'm so comfortable in my skin, I wouldn't mind going topless.

[Boozy]

It is legal for women to go topless here in the province of Ontario. One woman did it about 12 years ago, got arrested, and sued. She won.

And everyone freaked out about the impending invasion of half-naked women running around. Screams of "Think of the children!" etc.

I have not once in the last 12 years seen a woman topless in public.

Double standard or not, its a totally moot point here in Ontario. Its legal. No one cares. No one does it. Moving on.

The whole thing sort of reminds me of the gay marriage fiasco here in Canada. The courts have decided its legal, the political battle is over, the world (shockingly) has not come to an end, and few people are talking about it anymore.

Now that we aren't all obsessed with boobies and butt sex, perhaps we can actually get some shit done. :rolleyes:

[Sylvia727]

To the people who live in areas where it's legal: do you see topless women in the areas you see topless men? Private properties, swimming pools, beaches? If yes, is it a huge deal? If no, then why shouldn't every place have the same legislation, since it doesn't make a huge difference.

I am very well endowed (42DD bra size). However, I hate bras. I got braless as much as I can (especially in the house), but I'm so comfortable in my skin, I wouldn't mind going topless.

I need soft cloth against my chest, as harsher cloth irritates my skin. And if I go braless, I start to feel the lack of support after twelve hours. So while I usually wear bras, there are times, especially when it's hot and muggy, when I strip down to undies and a very loose cotton tank top. I mean loose enough and the neckline plunges low enough that very little is left to the imagination. However, I can't wear this outfit outside of my house. I can't even wear it in my own yard. And I have to don more clothing whenever non-family or non-roomies are present. Which sucks. The people who make me wear more clothing don't mind shirtless guys. Why are my nipples so very offensive?

When we swim in creeks or late at night in hotels, my sister swims in just the bottom half of a bikini. (She can get away with that; I can't.) It hasn't been a problem so far. People are generally too embarassed to call her on it. It's like they're afraid to say, "Excuse me, miss, but your nipples are visible." I suppose that will change when some mother brings her child down to the hotel pool at midnight, but so far everyone's been fine with it.

I would imagine that if there was a major swing towards women going topless, the objections would die away. Not, I hasten to add, because people would enjoy the sight, but because it would be accepted as the norm. <snip>

Feel free to start the trend of topless women. I won't ask for pictures. However, I will point out that 'should' doesn't always equate to reality.

Rapscallion

Aye. But what if a major swing isn't what's needed/wanted? I imagine one would have trouble persuading Northern Canadian women to walk around in open robes. But seeing a woman's breasts on the tv shouldn't be seen as unusual (not knowing much about foreign censorship; it might not be a big deal up there or across the pond or down under). Likewise, in Midwest USA there's only about four months of the year someone could get away with it outside.

I'm not looking to be the person who gets arrested and sues the government. Not enough time or money. But at the same time, I think I might not have to be. We're already seeing women go braless under tight white shirts, and Janet Jackson flashed the entire nation. Braless women get called trashy and slutty, and derided as having no self-esteem, and the JJ/MTV penalties were pretty strict, but I don't think John Q. Citizen is as uptight as he used to be.

[Greenday]

I don't even think it's that people are offended by women's boobs. I think it's because when it really comes down to it, a guy sees boobs, and if he's heterosexual, he's going to become excited. People will complain about guys looking and whether you like it or not, there are a lot of people who find boobs to be sexual. Guys are geared biologically to enjoy that. Sure, most of us can control it, but if you just stand there with your boobs in plain sight, give me one good reason not to look.

[Sylvia727]

When I see a guy's chest, I think it's pretty spiffy too. Should all men be required to wear shirts in public to protect themselves from gawking women?

Give you one good reason not to stare at a woman's chest? How about you're not a creepy stalker? As I've said before, I have men checking out my breasts when I'm wearing two layers of clothes. As long as they're discreet, I don't mind. I suspect all people have more or less learned how to check someone out without being scary. Put those same skills to use in topless areas.

[Greenday]

Me, looking at a woman's boobs, when they are literally in plain sight, does not make me a creepy stalker.

Should guys have to wear shirts in public? Depends on where it is. If they are doing yardwork, then no, I don't believe they should have to. I don't wear a shirt when I mow the lawn. I have yet to see a woman gawk at a guy's chest. The day a guy's chest becomes as sexual as a woman's, then I'll say guys have to wear shirts.

[AFPheonix]

I have boobs and I think boobs in general are pretty, too. No one's a perv for appreciating beauty.
The main issue is really cultural in that society has made it shameful to look at pretty body parts, and then when we do actually see them, it's shocking. Exhibit A is the Janet Jackson Boob Incident. That should have been a non-issue. It was a middle-aged boob, for crying out loud.
Miley Cyrus and her supposedly "racy" photo shoot is another. It's her shoulder. We can't show shoulders now?
Until we as a society can handle body parts without getting all prudish, we as females will have to deal with people being prudish about our boobs.

[Boozy]

To the people who live in areas where it's legal: do you see topless women in the areas you see topless men? Private properties, swimming pools, beaches? If yes, is it a huge deal? If no, then why shouldn't every place have the same legislation, since it doesn't make a huge difference.

I have never seen a topless woman on a public beach here in Ontario, and I worked on a public beach for three summers. My husband used to be a lifeguard at a public pool, and he has never seen any of the female swimmers topless.

People still have common sense and modesty. Most women don't want to offend others.

[AFPheonix]

We do have a nudist beach here on the Willamette river, if you don't mind seeing pasty white Portlanders in all their glory :p

I do wish we could be more like Spain and other European countries in that regard: who cares if there's a booby on the beach.

[Rapscallion]

People still have common sense and modesty. Most women don't want to offend others.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see breasts as offensive. I would see them as losing some of their allure should they be swinging free in the breeze on every street corner, but not really offensive.

I have noted an occasional attitude of people saying that an old woman's bust is something that should be covered up, yet a younger woman's is more acceptable. It's not something said overtly, just a general attitude in life. Feh - age happens. Deal with it.

Rapscallion

[Boozy]

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see breasts as offensive.

Me neither. But enough people do that I don't walk around topless in public.

I'm never going to be brave enough to become a topless activist, I'm afraid. :(

[MystyGlyttyr]

I'm not gonna lie, if we lived in a clothing-optional society, I would probably be naked all summer. When I'm home alone, I'm out of my clothes as soon as the family turns the corner. The only reason I'm not naked when they're home with me is that I think it would give my dad a heart attack. (The poor man nearly fainted when I took him into Hot Topic, heh.)

Granted, I'm not a sexual person, but I don't think nudity is that big a deal, as long as you're prepared to deal with it. (And it's not something like walking in on Kamala the Ugandan Giant with no warning...) My mom is like me in that she doesn't think much of being naked. She'll change her clothes right in front of us and has ever since we were kids, and none of the three of us are screwed up for life. But so many people think that if their children see one bit of exposed sexual organ, it'll be like on South Park with Bebe's boobs and their kids will turn into slavering sex fiends.

So, I don't know. I don't think too much either way, but if the option were there, yes, I'd be topless all the time. If people want to stare, eh, let them, so long as they don't touch or get in my way. They do that, then they'll get beat up by a naked girl. LOL

[Seshat]

The day a guy's chest becomes as sexual as a woman's, then I'll say guys have to wear shirts.

Better put a shirt on.

I love the feel of a nice, strong male chest. I'm not a visual person - the sight doesn't do much for me. But the feel of it? Ooh yeah. And good strong male hands. Better put gloves on too.

Both are much, much sexier to me than any breast can ever be. Breasts - to me - mean lump-checking, mammograms, ultrasounds, painful bouncing, and trying to find a damn bra. But male chests and male hands? Comfort, skill, and s-e-x-y.

[Greenday]

Yea, but you don't walk up to random guys and just feel their chests, do you? And since guys' chests visually does nothing for you, doesn't really matter if they have a shirt on since you won't be drooling.

[IDrinkaRum]

I like the feel of a guy's chest also. However, I looooove to look at a guy's naked chest too. Especially one that has a sprinkling (not a sweater, but lightly furred) of chest hair. Rawr! Now, that is s-e-x-y for me. I stop and stare. ;) So yeah, mens chests are sexual for me as a sight stimulant (and I'm sure they are for some women out there in the population too). Seeing a nice man's chest can rev up some women. So yeah, men? Cover up!

[Greenday]

Eh, screw it. Go topless. Boobs for everyone!

[Sylvia727]

My boobs are for me and whoever I decide to share them with. Not everyone.

[Greenday]

If you go topless in public, that'd be everyone...

[Slytovhand]

I'm with a possible majority here... Mysty and Phoenix in particular...

It's a cultural thing, and one that hopefully this bit of humanity will get over pretty soon....

What does concern me is that women's nipples (of boob-bits) are right out, yet it's perfectly alright to show people getting bashed! I saw an MTV video some years back (?Turn the Page by...???) in which the girl's toplessness couldn't be shown (censored out) yet having her beaten up by the guy was ok...

Now... what does that tell the kiddies of today????

[Sylvia727]

I assume you mean the sight of my breasts, then. I was offended by the suggestion that going topless makes my breasts public property. If this is not what you meant, then I apologize for the misinterpretation. As I have to explain to my kinderpals, we see with our eyes, touch with our hands, and never the twain shall meet (without my permission).

EDIT: Sylt, it tells them that sex=shameful and violence=awesome. Yippee yi yay, another generation of messed up kiddies.

[IDrinkaRum]

I'll go topless! I don't care! When my old DM and his wife had their Mardi Gras party, I was the one who flashed everyone. I didn't care. And no, it wasn't 'cos I was very drunk neither. ;)

[DesignFox]

I dunno. I prefer to keep my boobs covered and share them only with the person I share a house with. I think he'd feel a little slighted if I started walking around showing them to everyone.

I guess it's just my upbringing. I don't think women should walk around topless. If they changed the law and made it legal...well...whatever those women want to do. That's their business.

I do agree that there is a disturbing standard in the US regarding sex and violence. A booby on TV should not be a big deal. I'd rather the country be in an uproar about the excessive violence.

Of course, maybe if our culture was less "prude" to begin with, I wouldn't feel the way I do about seeing other people's boobs. *shrug*

And sorry- I would be one to look. Like...WTF? is she topless??? :o

Eh. The more I think about it, I'd probably ignore it after it became commonplace...

But then, I hate the sight of some guys without shirts...I don't wanna see those type of women shirtless, too...icky more brain bleach will be required daily....:p

[Greenday]

I assume you mean the sight of my breasts, then. I was offended by the suggestion that going topless makes my breasts public property. If this is not what you meant, then I apologize for the misinterpretation.

Oh, sorry about the misunderstanding. I totally didn't mean public property. I meant just the sight of your breasts. Your body is yours. No doubt about that.

[Sylvia727]

Well, that's fine, then. My breasts are beautiful, I don't mind sharing the view. But my main motivation is to de-emphasize the sight. I'm topless for practical reasons; it's hot, I'm working hard, I spilled something on my shirt, whatever. However, many people automatically associate "topless" with "sex". Just because I'm bare-breasted doesn't mean I'm a whore or that I have low self-esteem. Sometimes, nudity is just nudity, and my nipples shouldn't been considered differently than a man's.

I currently have three roomies. Two of them have requested that the bikini area be covered in front of them, and they cover this area in front of us. Myself and the other gal either wear bras and panties or turn our backs in front of them, and go naked in front of each other. There's no sexual tension or embarrassment on anyone's part, even though two are bisexual and thus could reasonably be expected to fly into lustful frenzies. :rolleyes:

[Seshat]

Yea, but you don't walk up to random guys and just feel their chests, do you? And since guys' chests visually does nothing for you, doesn't really matter if they have a shirt on since you won't be drooling.

IDrinkARum made my point, but I'll say it anyway: people love all sorts of things.

For the visually oriented, I've known people who go nuts over:

Feet
Ankles
Legs
Buttocks
Hips
The groin (obviously)
Backs
Bellies
Chests/Breasts
Shoulders
Arms
Hands
The decolletage (the area below a woman's neck, above her breasts)
Necks
Mouths
Ears
Eyes
Cheeks
Jaws
Hair


Maybe we should all wear full burqa with veils.

[Greenday]

Maybe we should all wear full burqa with veils.

How about fully naked for both groups?

[DesignFox]

Yea, fuck it. Let's all go nekkid. :D Too funny.

[AFPheonix]

I hope y'all don't mind a healthy dose of cellulite then ;)

[Difdi]

Back in the Victorian Era, the standard of feminine beauty was a slim wrist. Not much else showed, but a woman showing bare wrists would garner reactions much like a topless woman would today. To the extent that if a sleeve slipped a bit, a woman could be arrested for indecent exposure.

By those standards even showing a bare arm would destroy western civilization...hasn't happened yet. :rolleyes:

[rahmota]

Let me just chim in here that you are right that the standards of what is shocking and siturbing nudity wise have been changing and probably will change. maybe hopefully someday people will chill out and not get so freaked out over a pair of mammaries. I personally dont have a problem with that, either getting freaked or getting over excited. It all depends on presentation and situation.

[HowMayIHelpMe?]

The question remains: how can I, me personally, see more boobies? What can I do as a citizen? It's more than voting and speaking out at rallies, or joining the various civic groups that are out there. The question becomes doubly troubling, when one factors in that I do not want to see men's chests at all.
For me it's about going back to the start: is there a way to reverse course, and make it so that men cannot bare their chests, but women can?

Of course I'm going to defend a woman's right to go topless in public. That's a given. But it (any movement that we're talking about here) needs to go further.

[Boozy]

The question remains: how can I, me personally, see more boobies?

The men with the most luck getting women to take their tops off for them generally don't refer to breasts as "boobies."

Just a tip. ;)

[Greenday]

Girls Gone Wild. The entire thing is basically just girls flashing the camera for three seconds each.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Try any Motley Crue concert footage. XD

I will say that I certainly would not want to whip my top off. My breasts are for me, and for my boyf to see. No-one else. If you want to walk around topless, then move to a culture that doesn't sexualise breasts. I still remember boys from my school's brother school giggling on the bus at National Geographic; I somehow doubt that people's attitudes would be any different now. In any case, people should be covering up more, rather than less; there are some guys walking around topless showing off hairy backs, sweaty beer guts and moobs who definitely need to stop doing so. O.o And nope; that doesn't make me a prude, which a lot of "Get everyone naked!" people seem to think.

Yes, nudity is natural. But then, so is peeing, pooping, vomiting, masturbating and having sex. Do you want to see everyone doing all of those in public, too?

[Flyndaran]

...
Yes, nudity is natural. But then, so is peeing, pooping, vomiting, masturbating and having sex. Do you want to see everyone doing all of those in public, too?

But nudity is not an action, and certainly not one that spews bodily fluids of a potentially disease carrying nature like your examples.
The only unsanitary part is sitting on communal seats without courtesy barriers. Most nudists that I've seen carry a towel for just such occastions.
That just leaves the visual image of humans.
The idea of finding average naked humans gross should be silly. The fact that western society, heavily influenced by shame-filling religions, does offends me.
I have far too severe of anxiety to leave the apartment with ease, let alone go nude anywhere. But that doesn't make me any less offended by laws based on nothing but religion based morality
Separation of church and state!

[Lace Neil Singer]

I have my opinion and you have yours. In any case, I see clothing as the equivilent of fur and feathers. If you want to go around nude, be my guest. But expect to freeze to death round my neck of the woods.

[BlaqueKatt]

I hope y'all don't mind a healthy dose of cellulite then ;)


Or minor stretch marks-I have been preggers-though I do know some guys that really "got going" because I do have them-to each his/her own.....

[HowMayIHelpMe?]

The men with the most luck getting women to take their tops off for them generally don't refer to breasts as "boobies."
Just a tip. ;)


I used "boobies" in the farcical sense. Meant to offset the otherwise false "rhetorical tone" of the post. Also, it's just a funny word. Although I just cannot stand it when a woman refers to her breasts as boobs.

[AFPheonix]

How about tittays? That has a ring to it.

[DrT]

Exposing breasts doesnt increase sexual arrassment. I'd tend towards the opposite, actually, since the aim of the harassment is to see them, well if they're out already no need to harass.
I'm not backing it up with stats so I won't go any further, but give it a though.

Just go to a beach in France. You won't see hordes of teens gathering around a well endowed lady sunbathing.
They'll look (oh my god of course I'll look !), but they won't gawk forever.

This does go deeper than just harassment. This is about freedom. Tis your body, you own it, you can do whatever your want with it. Or so it should be.
will the lady down the street be offended ? Maybe. Then again she'll be offended by you talking to her son while wearing a bikini. She has issues going far deeper than you imagine.
Will his son be offended ? yeah right. He'll go to bed happier tonight.
The daughter ? Jealous maybe, offended no. And you might even protect her from developing the same insecurities that handicap her poor mom.
The dad. He'll salute you ! ;p

Seriously though, it's not because it's allowed that people do it. But that don't mean you should forbid it. Forbidding means the government doesn't trust his citizen to use common sense. For speeding it's ok, because other people's lives are at risk. Getting nude however doesn't hurt anyone.

[rdp78]

I guess with nudity in general it means you are comfortable in your skin and don't mind other people seeing your flaws. I mean even if they are partial nude with just their top part not being covered they still are comfortable showing that part of the body off. Same thing for girls in tiny bikinis and guys in speedos but their private parts are hopefully covered. I mean even if they have the most disgusting and ugliest body in the world they are still proud to show it off even if people are running away from them or looking away.

Now, if my state does allow for women to go topless (I'm doubtful it doesn't) many people would be disappointed because pretty much all my bras are padded. My bra size is a 34B and for a long time I thought I was 36. Yep, I thought I had bigger boobs then I actually had. No, I won't go topless anyway because I'm not that comfortable with my body and I probably feel weird doing it.

[guywithashovel]

Some of you have said that no one gets offended if a man goes out in public without a shirt on. This isn't accurate. Let me explain why.

Back when I worked for the big box retail chain that everyone loves to hate, a man walked through our doors at around eleven o'clock one night. He was not wearing anything above his waistline. A woman who was shopping in our store approached one of our nighttime security guards and said, "Excuse me, but there is a man walking around the store with no shirt on. I have my two little daughters with me, and I didn't bring them in here to see a strip show. This is supposed to be a family store." Granted, this situation was probably an anomaly, but it goes to show that there really are some people who don't want to see a guy's naked chest.

As a guy, I hardly ever go around with a shirt on. If I'm swimming, I do. But I wouldn't even consider entering a store or walking down a public street without a shirt. I'm not overweight. However, I do have a mild case of "man boobs." It really isn't all that noticeable, but it is there, and I don't like to call attention to it my baring my chest. This "man boobs" case of mine is not due to chest fat, either. It is because I am one of a handful of men in the world who are affected with gynecomastia---a natural enlargement in men's chests. If you want to know more about it, just Google it. There's quite a bit of info about it on the Web. (Some guys can't help having "man boobs.")

[Boozy]

I'd be offended by a shirtless man in a retail establishment too, although I wouldn't call it a "strip show". It's low-class and disrespectful to walk around in public half-dressed. There are certain places where its totally fine - the beach, very casual stores located close to the beach, swimming pools, playing frisbee in the park.

But shopping at a big box store? This guy should have been stopped at the door and told to come back when he was prepared to behave in a civilized manner.

[guywithashovel]

I'd be offended by a shirtless man in a retail establishment too, although I wouldn't call it a "strip show". It's low-class and disrespectful to walk around in public half-dressed. There are certain places where its totally fine - the beach, very casual stores located close to the beach, swimming pools, playing frisbee in the park.

But shopping at a big box store? This guy should have been stopped at the door and told to come back when he was prepared to behave in a civilized manner.

The guard said that he would have liked to have stopped the man at the door and asked him to come back when he had a shirt on, but he (his words) couldn't because we didn't have a sign up that said customers have to have shirts on if they want to come inside. Evidently he (the guard) had been trying to get the store manager to put one up for a long time, but the SM didn't want to because he was afraid it would upset people. Apparently on another occasion the guard saw a woman coming inside with nothing on above her waist except bodypaint (this was during our county fair). I think he did convince her to leave, though.

But yeah, going into a store without a shirt on is not a very polite thing to do, regardless of whether you're male or female.

[PepperElf]

Guys' chests aren't sexual like women's. And I do think when a guy chest is as big as some women, they really should cover up too.
you remind me of the movie the Pacifier. Where the little girl points out Vin's chest to her friend and says that "he has boobs!"

Vin's character made a point of putting a shirt on... although technically being a guy he didn't have to but, the little girl had called attention to his chest and had compared it to woman's boobs... therefore putting his pecs in the category of being sexual.

so, yes.... the body part became a part considered sexual... so then it was covered.

I guess with nudity in general it means you are comfortable in your skin and don't mind other people seeing your flaws.
that comment made me think of something... not specifically about what you said though, but jsut in general the idea of "being comfortable"

in my opinion many people who are in favor of public toplessness or nudity quote the idea that it's about being "comfortable with your own skin" and that people who aren't have something wrong with them.

i disagree... if one person is comfortable with their own skin fine.... but that doesn't automatically mean everyone else is - or has to be - comfortable with it.


now in countries where it's considered the norm.... that's because they have a history of it.... expecting other countries to suddenly adopt these different values overnight is in my opinion, quite insane.

[Fashion Lad!]

I don't understand why it's a crime against humanity for a woman to go topless in public, I really don't. Even when women wear revealing tops, I'm not the guy that's going to stare at their clevage or anything like that. I don't see breasts as sexual, probably because there are shape differences (really) when it comes to the difference between my chest and a woman's chest. (Of course, I know there are things that a woman has in breasts that I don't have. But for practical conversation, I don't care.)

[Flyndaran]

All of these points seem to lose their point if we accept society rules to work for the vast majority of people.
No matter what our value judgements about men that ogle women are, the fact remains that large portion of men will ogle woment more if they were nude-ish.
Personally, I prefer massive loads of freedom to security, but I can see why others prefer the status quo with regards to this topic.

[Rubystars]

I'm 100% in support of women's rights to breast feed their babies in public. However I think just going around topless for the sake of it would not be classy.

[Flyndaran]

I'm 100% in support of women's rights to breast feed their babies in public. However I think just going around topless for the sake of it would not be classy.

Is it wrong for me to be offended not at the sight of bare breasts, but of those disgusting creatures known as babies?

[Rubystars]

I don't like babies or children that much either, mostly because they're loud in public places. I can deal with a baby crying a lot easier than I can deal with a child crying and carrying a fit though. The first I can understand better, even if I don't like it. The children throwing fits I think should be silenced in public as much as possible.

One of the things that really gets on my nerves badly is the repeat question. "Mom can I have this pair of Hannah Montana shoes?" "Mom can I have this pair of Hannah Montana shoes?""Mom can I have this pair of Hannah Montana shoes?""Mom can I have this pair of Hannah Montana shoes?" Ask once you dumb kid. If your mom ignores you, the answer is probably no.

[Slytovhand]

Kids learn, at a fairly early age, that most parents will give in if you keep nagging. Apparently, "it's easier", or so parents have said to me... yeah, right! Short term solution to long term problems...

[Nyoibo]

I am 100% in support of women going topless, of course it's not so good with the bouncing and such, so I also volunteer to give support to women going topless. :p

[Rubystars]

I just get so annoyed because not only do they ask the same question over and over again, but they use exactly the same tone of voice and everything. Ever hear a faucet drip? drip, drip, drip, drip... the repeat sound can really be very annoying. That's sort of the same thing with hearing whiny little brats. MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM MOM.