Obama Got Votes for Being Black and Young

[Greenday]

Instead of continuing to threadjack the gay presidential candidate thread, I figured it's past due to start this thread.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think no one voted for Obama just because he is black or young (relatively speaking). It's not a coincidence that we finally had a candidate that was black and much younger than any previous candidate and there was a noticeable increase in young voters and black voters.

[Kheldarson]

Considering I was at college at the time of the election, and doing student teaching including a course on government for seniors, I heard a lot of this. My school had a race problem anyway that kept flaring up. This didn't help :eye roll:

But whether it was the final determining factor or a statistically differentiating factor...eh, I don't know about that. I'd want some more exit polls and voting records for that one.

[HYHYBT]

There's a gay presidential candidate thread? How could I have missed that...

Anyway...

I'm sure some people did vote for him based on those things... but a lot would vote against him for the exact same reasons. How many old, white presidents have had such persistent denials that they're even citizens?

[BlaqueKatt]

we kinda already did have this thread back in 2008 (http://fratching.com/showthread.php?t=734)

[Andara Bledin]

Everybody did this thread back in 2008.

^-.-^

[lordlundar]

I never said that no one voted for Obama because he's black or (relatively) young. I said that you have no PROOF that it was the sole exclusive reason for the increase in voters. Show me clear, definitive proof that the exclusive reason for the increase of voters was because Obama is younger and/or that he's black and I'll shut up.

Yes, I firmly believe that people voted for Obama simply because he's black and/or relatively young. I also believe that people voted for him because he's a democrat, he promised sweeping changes in the federal government and various fields there with. I also believe people voted for him because the concept of Sarah Palin having any power as a VP was far too frightening for some people to comprehend. But I do try to even imply that the exclusive reason for an increase in voter turnout was his skin colour, because I cannot prove it.

[Boozy]

It's not a coincidence that we finally had a candidate that was black and much younger than any previous candidate and there was a noticeable increase in young voters and black voters.

Perhaps not a coincidence, but there's that old "correlation does not equal causation" problem again.

One could just as easily conclude that Obama's youth and/or race caused previously ignored demographics to sit up and take notice -- but what eventually drew them to vote for him was his personality or platform.

[Hyena Dandy]

I apologize if I was misinterpreted. I must not have made myself clear, which is totally my fault.

I was not saying that nobody VOTED for Obama because he was black. I was saying that he wasn't ELECTED because he was black.

[Andara Bledin]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think no one voted for Obama just because he is black or young (relatively speaking).
I find it unlikely that you would find anyone that honestly thinks that nobody voted for Obama because he was young and black.

Then again, there are people who voted for McCain because he was old and white.

However, I suspect that the two demographics mostly cancel each other out and are likely also much smaller than you appear to assume.

^-.-^

[FArchivist]

Instead of continuing to threadjack the gay presidential candidate thread, I figured it's past due to start this thread.

I find it hard to believe that anyone can honestly think no one voted for Obama just because he is black or young (relatively speaking). It's not a coincidence that we finally had a candidate that was black and much younger than any previous candidate and there was a noticeable increase in young voters and black voters.

1) No one stated that NO ONE voted for Obama because he was black/young in the previous thread.

2) The increase in young voters and black voters does not necessarily correlate with Obama's candidacy. Attempting to do so is use of the "correlation does not equal causation" fallacy.

If you want to prove that the increase and candidacy are linked, you would need to perform a study that showed the correlation.

[Hyena Dandy]

While I don't like FArchivist demanding a study for it, because I simply don't see how you could possibly perform one to his satisfaction, I do agree with his statement that correlation does not equal causation.

At least as far as the youth go, a lot of people where I am voted Obama because they just really hated George Bush (a popular sentiment amongst the youth)


Being young was a definite part, being black a part as well, but I don't think either of those was the deciding factor.

[Kheldarson]

Election studies tend to be a "look at the demographics of voters and voting trends in an area on a non-important year" vs. "demographics and trends on a big year". Non-important are years where just state officials or House of Representatives are being voted in, big year being presidential years.

So, for example, I read a study that released after the Bush vs. Gore debacle. The major argument was that if states had more voting machines Gore would have won. The author did a study in Ohio, one of the key states. He found that there was not a major difference in most towns on the number of voters and further, using the percentages of those who voted and how they voted, predicting the number of extra votes each candidate probably would've gotten, found that it didn't make a difference if the towns had more machines or not. And as the added cost of more machines wasn't worth it...

You'd probably find in a similar study on Obama's election that there's no real statistical difference in voting habits.

[Greenday]

Seeing as no one can even come up with one legit idea as to why in this election and none of the previous ones before this there was a noticeable increase in these two demographics, the theory that Obama received the increase in votes because he's young and black becomes pretty legit.

[Hyena Dandy]

Obama was one of the most heavily endorsed presidential candidates in recent memory, getting endorsements from, amongst others, Will.i.am, Lil Wayne, and Nas. Those are all black celebrities.

Those are all celebrities, and they all try to appeal to youth and black people.

There's a legitimate idea.

Also, Andy put forward the idea that Obama's heavy use of the internet in his campaign pushed the youth demographic (who use the internet) into voting.

There's another legitimate idea which has already been put forward in this thread.

And as I believe I've mentioned, George Bush was very unpopular amongst young people, who would naturally, therefore, gravitate to the other party.

Edit: Note, nobody has claimed that being young and black wasn't a part of it. What we have claimed was that it was not the ENTIRETY of it.

[Greenday]

Well, now that we finally seem to be in agreement that being black and young had something to do with his popularity which helped him win, I think we are on the same page.

[Hyena Dandy]

Well, now that we finally seem to be in agreement that being black and young had something to do with his popularity which helped him win, I think we are on the same page.

I was never arguing it didn't help. My argument was (and always has been) that it wasn't the sole or even primary reason.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, now that we finally seem to be in agreement that being black and young had something to do with his popularity which helped him win, I think we are on the same page.
I sincerely doubt it helped him any more than it hindered him and have yet to see any study (and I followed the election fairly closely at the time) that indicated race played a significant factor in either direction.

^-.-^

[smileyeagle1021]

Seeing as no one can even come up with one legit idea as to why in this election and none of the previous ones before this there was a noticeable increase in these two demographics, the theory that Obama received the increase in votes because he's young and black becomes pretty legit.

Here's one legit idea as to why young and minority (blacks weren't the only ones that turned out more to vote) voters turned out more.
2008 had a shitload more youth voter engagement efforts than in previous years. Yeah, every year they do "rock the vote" etc. but 2008 (at least locally) had a lot more exposure than in 2004. Those campaigns have also evolved over the years. Perhaps they finally found a effective technique to get traditionally disenfranchised voters (youth and minorities) to get out and vote.

[Boozy]

Seeing as no one can even come up with one legit idea as to why in this election and none of the previous ones before this there was a noticeable increase in these two demographics, the theory that Obama received the increase in votes because he's young and black becomes pretty legit.

In 2008, the US was (and still is) in a war on two fronts. That tends to draw the youth and minority votes.

The Obama campaign was also run differently than most. Their goal was to draw as many voters as possible to the polls. It was a successful strategy. And it didn't focus on "Look at me, I'm black and not about to die of a heart attack!".

[Gravekeeper]

Yes, Obama's campaign was actually quite brilliant, aimed at grassroots participation and specifically aimed at getting people who don't normally vote ( Youth ) to vote by getting them actively involved in the process.

I don't think they voted for him because he was young per say, I think they voted for him because he actually paid attention to them for once. Combine that with an opponent that was for all extensive purposes a dinosaur with a dinosaur's political ideology, and yeah, you're going to get the youth vote. >.>

[Andara Bledin]

Yes, Obama's campaign was actually quite brilliant, aimed at grassroots participation and specifically aimed at getting people who don't normally vote ( Youth ) to vote by getting them actively involved in the process.
Precisely!

During the campaign, Obama's crew was all over the place, online and off, taking part and inviting others to do the same.

^-.-^

[Evandril]

I also believe people voted for him because the concept of Sarah Palin having any power as a VP was far too frightening for some people to comprehend.

This

That's how Obama got my vote

[FArchivist]

This
That's how Obama got my vote

And how he got mine.

Sarah Palin is not only not terribly intelligent and extremely jingoistic, but she's affiliated with Joel's Army, (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2008/fall/arming-for-armageddon) a theocratic group who believes they have a divine mandate to physically impose Christian "dominion" on non-believers. That is NOT who I want to have access to our nuclear weapons.

[lordlundar]

Seeing as no one can even come up with one legit idea as to why in this election and none of the previous ones before this there was a noticeable increase in these two demographics, the theory that Obama received the increase in votes because he's young and black becomes pretty legit.

No it doesn't. A lack of contrary evidence does not automatically give your theory weight. This is especially true when there is NO evidence either way. You are saying that the increase in voter turnout is exclusively because he's black and/or young. That is causation and you have no direct evidence to prove it. So unless you have that proof, all your theory without evidence will be is just that, a theory without evidence. I gave other possible reasons that you ignored. What makes the reasons I provided mean nothing while yours must be the truth?

[Greenday]

It is much more unlikely that an increase occurred because he was democrat or because Palin was running. People were either already voting democrat or not. If they were, they weren't voting for McCain/Palin. Change? Every candidate promises this every election. The only difference is he proposed more drastic change that a lot of people didn't want. Obama is different from every other candidate for two main reasons and it just happened that those two reasons coincided with the two groups there was a major increase in?

[Andara Bledin]

Yeah, let's just go ahead and continue to ignore the massive online and social networking presence he had that was also different from any other candidate that was enough to be noticed by our neighbors to the north.

^-.-^

[insertNameHere]

I used to "love" when I said I did not like him based on policy decisions gave support for my examples. I was told I was a racist..... for having a valid argument of why I did not like him that had nothing to do with race.

I would then ask what they liked about him, I got the "Well he is the first black candidate that has a shot, and I want to help vote in the first black president", when asked views on policy they really couldn't give me anything other than the fact he was black.

SO, I know MANY people who voted for him because of the color of his skin, got to love liberals in college, few of my friends did support their argument with how much they hated McCain and his choices and had support. but that was a minority compared to the "Because he is black" crowd

[HYHYBT]

...which means exactly nothing, because there were also people who otherwise would vote Democrat but didn't because Obama is black.

[FArchivist]

SO, I know MANY people who voted for him because of the color of his skin, got to love liberals in college, few of my friends did support their argument with how much they hated McCain and his choices and had support. but that was a minority compared to the "Because he is black" crowd

So all you have are anecdotes, right? Am I correct in saying that?

[Hyena Dandy]

got to love liberals in college,

As they're college LIBERALS, I doubt they would have voted for McCain anyway.

Most people who tried to sell you on voting Obama because he's black would probably have done the same for Clinton being a woman. They'd made up their mind, they're just using a tertiary reason to convince you.


Like Christians and hell. Most Christians aren't Christian to get out of hell. They're Christian for the community, for inner peace, for whatever. But they try to convince other people with hell.

[KnitShoni]

It is much more unlikely that an increase occurred because he was democrat or because Palin was running. People were either already voting democrat or not. If they were, they weren't voting for McCain/Palin. Change? Every candidate promises this every election. The only difference is he proposed more drastic change that a lot of people didn't want. Obama is different from every other candidate for two main reasons and it just happened that those two reasons coincided with the two groups there was a major increase in?

Yeah...see...you don't actually know how much this was debated among Blacks, either. Yes, there are Blacks who voted for him because he's Black. Many more did so because he was the Democratic candidate, and hey, guess what? The majority of Blacks are Democrats. There was also a VERY large discussion about how our votes would be perceived. We KNEW we would be accused of voting for him simply because he's Black. Black women got shit from Hillary Clinton for backing him over her, because, apparently, we were voting race over gender, not the other way around (as if either of those are a good reason to vote for someone). There are a LOT of Black people who take issue with the idea that we're only intelligent enough, apparently, to vote our color.

[Greenday]

As you said, most black people who were already registered were democrats. The ones that chose to register out of nowhere probably didn't do so because there was a democrat running for president.

[KnitShoni]

As you said, most black people who were already registered were democrats. The ones that chose to register out of nowhere probably didn't do so because there was a democrat running for president.

So, are you implying that ALL the Blacks who registered to vote in 2008 did so because the candidate was Black? The fact that that may have been the first year many were eligible had nothing to do with it? The fact that most of those same people would have voted for Hillary had she won the nomination also had nothing to do with it?

Seriously. There was a 3.5% increase across the board in voter turn out http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html There was a 4.9% increase among Black voters http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1209/racial-ethnic-voters-presidential-election. The voting age population increased by roughly 9 million people, yet, the increase in the number of people who actually registered to vote was only 4 million.

Sorry. As I said, yes, race had something to do with why some people voted. It was not as big a factor as some people want to believe.

[Greenday]

So, are you implying that ALL the Blacks who registered to vote in 2008 did so because the candidate was Black? The fact that that may have been the first year many were eligible had nothing to do with it? The fact that most of those same people would have voted for Hillary had she won the nomination also had nothing to do with it?

Seriously. There was a 3.5% increase across the board in voter turn out http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html There was a 4.9% increase among Black voters http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1209/racial-ethnic-voters-presidential-election. The voting age population increased by roughly 9 million people, yet, the increase in the number of people who actually registered to vote was only 4 million.

Sorry. As I said, yes, race had something to do with why some people voted. It was not as big a factor as some people want to believe.

And yet it's not non-existent as others would want to believe.

[FArchivist]

And yet it's not non-existent as others would want to believe.

No one has been saying it's non-existent.
We have been saying that it's statistically insignificant.
There is a large, large difference between "not there at all" and "there, but doesn't matter".

[ben_who]

Obama's race was an interesting factor in the elections, if only because, at least, the perception among Republicans was that he was gaining votes because he was black. We were then treated to the spectacle of the Republican party trying to downplay the biggest liability of their strongest opponent. I think my personal favorite was Rush Limbaugh referring to him as "Halfrican American."

Because, as we all know, it's been so easy for African-American presidential candidates to ride the color of their skin into the Oval Office. Why, I can't even remember our last white President.

It got even more dizzying when they tried to blame McCain's defeat on anti-feminism in the Democratic party - "They're just scared of a strong conservative female presence." No, we're scared of a dimwit who thinks "What newspapers do you read?" is gotcha journalism being the running mate of a 73-year-old four-time cancer survivor. The vagina had nothing to do with it.

[MadMike]

It got even more dizzying when they tried to blame McCain's defeat on anti-feminism in the Democratic party - "They're just scared of a strong conservative female presence." No, we're scared of a dimwit who thinks "What newspapers do you read?" is gotcha journalism being the running mate of a 73-year-old four-time cancer survivor. The vagina had nothing to do with it.

Agreed. I have no problem with a woman being vice president, or even president, for that matter. I just didn't want that woman being in office.

[Greenday]

Agreed. I have no problem with a woman being vice president, or even president, for that matter. I just didn't want that woman being in office.

Exactly. I just have an issue with someone who is batshit crazy being in office.