People completely refusing to give our President any credit at all for OBL's killing.

[chozoghost79]

Here's what I think of that: (quoting a classmate)


"President Obama did not pull the trigger. Neither did Osama Bin Laden fly a plane into the World Trade Centers. Either leadership counts or it doesn't."

I don't even for a minute want to discount the actions of the SEAL team who took him out. They took care of the most dangerous person alive, but they, like any element of our military, act under orders. Our President deserves credit just as much as the previous one would have, had he been the one to receive the intelligence and send the order to catch/kill OBL.

[kiwi]

I had to unfriend some idiot on facebook because over the last week he has blathered on about Trump/Obama and the birth certificate thing. Then when Osama was killed he started on that. I just can't tolerate that stupidity and call it "friend".

I wasn't surprised, this is the same guy who called his first born essynce (essence).

[chozoghost79]

Yeah it seems to be similar sentiment coming from the same types of people. Birth cert. stuff, then the college transcript thing, now this. Nobody has to like the President, but this stuff is just silly, like they can't find anything else.

[Greenday]

Hm, didn't see Obama risking his life to gain the necessary intelligence. Didn't see Obama risking his life to get Osama bin Laden. Pretty sure it was the CIA and ST6 that did all the risk taking. Sure, Obama gave the okay, but I don't exactly see that as deserving as nearly as much credit as the CIA/ST6.

[chozoghost79]

Hm, didn't see Obama risking his life to gain the necessary intelligence. Didn't see Obama risking his life to get Osama bin Laden.

. . .and that goes for any President in a similar situation. That said the CIA and SEAL Team 6 deserve the most credit for their making this operation a success.

[kiwi]

Green she say in the title it was people who wouldn't give Obama ANY credit, not MOST of the credit.

[insertNameHere]

I love how now they are saying he was unarmed. Considering the circus that would have resulted from a trial, and you know having to house him, worry about looking bad, treat him fairly. I'm glad they invested in lead instead.

But I can see them blaming Obama for letting him die unarmed.

[Greenday]

Green she say in the title it was people who wouldn't give Obama ANY credit, not MOST of the credit.

Credit for what? I don't count sitting at a desk and saying, "Go get him" to be really much of anything in this kind of operation. I could have done that if I was able to. In the scheme of things, his part in this operation was pretty much negligible.

[Rapscallion]

If the operation had been botched and it had turned out to be a heavily defended orphanage with many casualties amongst the inhabitants, how much of it would have been Obama's fault then?

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

If the operation had been botched and it had turned out to be a heavily defended orphanage with many casualties amongst the inhabitants, how much of it would have been Obama's fault then?

Rapscallion

None, CIA would have been blamed.

[Ree]

None, CIA would have been blamed.Gotta love armchair quarterbacking.

You say that now because it's a moot point. The operation was a success.

I think, if you are really honest with yourself, you could admit that, if it hadn't have been a success, and it had actually turned into a bloody mess with heavy casualties for the team, it would have fallen entirely on Obama's shoulders,

[Racket_Man]

If the operation had been botched and it had turned out to be a heavily defended orphanage with many casualties amongst the inhabitants, how much of it would have been Obama's fault then?

Rapscallion

None, CIA would have been blamed.

at this point I will have Sherman set the wayback machine to 1980 during the Carter Administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_hostage_crisis#Rescue_attempts
Place: Iran
setting: the Pickup Military force sent in to rescue the US Emabssy hostiges taken one year prior.
Operation name: Eagle Claw

summary: the mission failed misserably.

was it the military that got blamed?? NO!
was the rescue attempt blamed?? NO!
were the planners blamed? Not really
was the PRESIDENT of the US blamed???? YES!!!

[Greenday]

Who got blamed for the WMD situation with Iraq? CIA

Gotta love armchair quarterbacking.

I do. I love it. Not entirely sure what is has to do with anything said in this thread so far.

[Evandril]

Let me put my own spin on it...The people who bug me the most (Besides the ones who claim obl really isn't dead) are the ones who claim President Obama doesn't deserve any credit, President Bush deserves all of it.

From the stories I heard about how it went down (purely from civilian sources, and none of them 'good' sources) President Obama had intelligence he was there months ago, and said to flatten the place...His advisors told him that'd be a bad idea, and reccommended the strike team that was used. He agreed with them, and not only went with their plan, he gave them the *TIME* needed to do so. If that is accurate, gives him quite a few points in my book, too used to politicians playing war without a clue, and wanting things done NOW...and the bad press he'd have gotten if obl had moved during the 'training' part would have been enough to insure he couldn't be elected as a meter-maid.

[mikoyan29]

And this is why I hate politics in the 24 hour news cycle period. A moment that should be for celebrating is turned into yet another opportunity to sling mud. So by using Palin's logic, Bush should get the blame for the massive debt too....Or was the 9 trillion or so added as soon as Obama took office? Funny thing is, I didn't vote for Obama but I'm finding myself liking him more and more. But then I look at the alternatives and what choice do I have?

[Gravekeeper]

None, CIA would have been blamed.

Bullshit, it would be hung gleefully around Obama's neck like a noose from now until the moment he retired from politics. It'd take up the 24/7 US media cycle for weeks if not months. Fox news pundits would visible orgasm on air every time they got to bring it up. Which would be every other sentence.

By that logic, why did you go after Bin Laden then? He's the leader. Obviously he's not to blame, its all the hijackers fault. They actually conducted the operation. His part in the operation was pretty neglibable. =p

[Andara Bledin]

By that logic, why did you go after Bin Laden then? He's the leader. Obviously he's not to blame, its all the hijackers fault. They actually conducted the operation. His part in the operation was pretty neglibable. =p
Aw, come on... You're going to let a little thing like logic dictate your political ideology? Pshaw!

^-.-^

[Mytical]

Lets go another case in point here. The economy. Is Obama to blame for anything that happens in the Economy? Good or bad? Heck no, yet people are complaining he hasn't 'fixed' the economy. It is the curse of leadership. A leader gets credit, or blame, for things they have very little to do with.

Let me ask a question to those of you who think Obama deserve little or no credit. When a military operation is successful, is it just because of the people directly involved in the fighting? Or.. is it the intelligence operatives. the communications workers, etc? Lets get more specific, however.

Seal team 6 (If I am not mistaken) is the group that the credit is to go to. How about their direct superior? Do they deserve any credit? Most likely they did not engage in the fight, but if they had not 'give the green light' it wouldn't have happened. How about the intelligence community that found out where Osama was? Do they not deserve any credit because they 'didn't put their lives on the line'?

The military is a team effort. While the lions share of credit (or blame when things go south) should go to the people directly in harms way..but the ones who support them, their chain of command, and in fact (imo) every last man and woman who wears the uniform or issues the orders deserve credit as well. Does Obama deserve any credit. Yes, but only because he definitely gets his share of blame for things that is out of his control.

[XCashier]

I don't even for a minute want to discount the actions of the SEAL team who took him out. They took care of the most dangerous person alive, but they, like any element of our military, act under orders. Our President deserves credit just as much as the previous one would have, had he been the one to receive the intelligence and send the order to catch/kill OBL.
President Truman didn't pilot the planes and drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but he still gets credit for forcing Japanese surrender and ending WW2.

There's a reason he kept a sign on his desk that read, "The buck stops here". For better or worse, the President has to make the big decisions and accept responsibility for them, whether praise or blame. So yes, I do believe Obama deserves credit for getting rid of Bin Ladin (and no, that does not discount the actions of the CIA, the SEALS or anyone else involved).
I love how now they are saying he was unarmed.
Honestly, I don't care if Bin Liner was unarmed. He is responsible for the murders of thousands of innocent people. His life has been forfeit for years. I wouldn't have cared if he'd been sitting on the loo when he got shot, he got what he had coming.

[Rapscallion]

A thought - if Obama doesn't deserve the credit for the actions of the SEAL team who killed Bin Laden, then Bin Laden doesn't deserve the blame for the actions of those he directed to blow themselves up in areas of many civilians.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

A thought - if Obama doesn't deserve the credit for the actions of the SEAL team who killed Bin Laden, then Bin Laden doesn't deserve the blame for the actions of those he directed to blow themselves up in areas of many civilians.

Rapscallion

bin Laden planned it.

I have yet to hear anything about Obama planning the attack. Pretty sure that was the military who planned it.

I look at like this, had it failed, Obama might be blamed now, but in 5-10 years it would have been the military/CIA who got blamed. Look at Iraq. People blamed Bush for WMDs for not being in Iraq at first, but in later years people blamed the CIA for that and rightfully so.

[dendawg]

By that logic, why did you go after Bin Laden then? He's the leader. Obviously he's not to blame, its all the hijackers fault. They actually conducted the operation. His part in the operation was pretty neglibable. =p

To take this logic a step further, should Charles Manson have ever been arrested for the murder of Sharon Tate? After all, he never actually stabbed her or her guests. Just like Bin Laden he only "gave the orders."

Just a little food for thought.

[Rapscallion]

By that logic, why did you go after Bin Laden then? He's the leader. Obviously he's not to blame, its all the hijackers fault. They actually conducted the operation. His part in the operation was pretty neglibable. =p

Bugger - had my thought on this early this morning and hadn't realised you'd already said the same.

Ho hum.

Rapscallion

[Mytical]

We only assume that he planned it, in reality he could have just said "Lets take out x" and somebody else figured out how. Even if he did plan all of it, however he 'never put his life on the line' as some are using as an excuse why Obama doesn't deserve any credit.

However, I am still curious as to if you think that the 'intelligence' people (who figured out where to strike, though not how), etc deserve no credit either.

1) Without equipment, chances are the operation would have failed. Yet the people who feed the troops, make sure they have equipment, and make sure that equipment is upkept don't deserve ANY credit?

2) Transportation..if they can't get there..the operation would have never happened. Yet the transport people don't deserve any credit?

3) If they did not know where he is, the operation would have never happened...

etc..

[Greenday]

1) Without equipment, chances are the operation would have failed. Yet the people who feed the troops, make sure they have equipment, and make sure that equipment is upkept don't deserve ANY credit?

2) Transportation..if they can't get there..the operation would have never happened. Yet the transport people don't deserve any credit?

3) If they did not know where he is, the operation would have never happened...

1) Nope, I'm not giving them credit for the operation. Odds are, not one of them knew anything about the operation. Unless they had something to do with intelligence gathering, training for the mission, or executing the mission, I'm not giving them any undeserved credit for it.

2) The transportation people, a.k.a. Air Force pilots, deserve credit as they are part of the military who executed the mission.

3) Pretty sure no one isn't giving credit to the CIA or other unknown intelligence agencies who gathered intel.

[CaptainJaneway]

I think Obama deserves the credit because in his speech he said that he made it a top priority to take out bin laden. Bush did not care to find him, even though in the beginning he said that was his main focus. It took Obama 2 years compared to Bush's 8 years in office and nothing was accomplished. I say mission finally accomplished.

I think everyone who was part of this take down deserves the credit. Right down to the lowly mess hall server who gave team 6 their last meal before they went on this mission. Without food in their stomachs they might have passed out during the mission due to hunger.

[Greenday]

I think Obama deserves the credit because in his speech he said that he made it a top priority to take out bin laden. Bush did not care to find him, even though in the beginning he said that was his main focus. It took Obama 2 years compared to Bush's 8 years in office and nothing was accomplished. I say mission finally accomplished.

I think everyone who was part of this take down deserves the credit. Right down to the lowly mess hall server who gave team 6 their last meal before they went on this mission. Without food in their stomachs they might have passed out during the mission due to hunger.

No, Obama had 10 years worth of intel instead of Bush's 8. If the CIA had figured it out while Bush was president, it would have been done during that presidency. Obama had everything Bush got to work with, and then some.

I bet even those cooks would never take credit for it. Maybe I should receive credit for the mission too.

[Evandril]

If Obama doesn't deserve credit, then Bush certainly does not. While noone here has said he does, that is a common point quite a few, ah, people are saying (Mostly the Obama can do no right croud)

The fact a politician of ANY sort is claiming credit for what the military did really isn't new...In fact, I don't doubt that you'd have a hard time showing a president who *didn't* take credit for military successes during their administration...and it's been rare any have been able to fully duck the blame for mistakes made on their watch, as well.

[Rapscallion]

Not just claiming credit, they are often given credit - Winston Churchill is often lauded as a great wartime prime minister, but he never (from what I understood) went around saying 'praise me for this'.

Rapscallion

[Andara Bledin]

I love watching all the pedantic contortions people go through just to deny Obama any credit for anything that's gotten done while he's been president just because they can't get over their own bigotry against him.

^-.-^

[DrFaroohk]

It's not like he deserves a medal for kicking Osama's ass, but it's not like he doesn't deserve ANY credit either. He's in charge, and if things had gone wrong he'd get blamed. So it's only fair he gets some small piece of the credit too.


But you can't share credit with everyone. I mean, I could claim credit because I pay taxes which at some point help fund the military. Right? So I PAID FOR THIS OPERATION! lol j/k.

[Rapscallion]

I don't think it's all down to bigotry due to race or relatively young age - I think it's more due to party political lines. I'd like to think better of my fellow humans, though I'm sometimes disappointed.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

It's not like he deserves a medal for kicking Osama's ass, but it's not like he doesn't deserve ANY credit either. He's in charge, and if things had gone wrong he'd get blamed. So it's only fair he gets some small piece of the credit too.


But you can't share credit with everyone. I mean, I could claim credit because I pay taxes which at some point help fund the military. Right? So I PAID FOR THIS OPERATION! lol j/k.

I provided a distraction out here. I should be given a medal.

Bigotry? Really? This is a much clearer case. Did he participate in any way? Nope.

[Andara Bledin]

I don't think it's all down to bigotry due to race or relatively young age - I think it's more due to party political lines.
Political bigotry is still bigotry.

Most of the people who fight against giving him any credit aren't doing so for any rational reason, which is why their arguments become so irrationally absurd.

^-.-^

[KnitShoni]

Bigotry? Really? This is a much clearer case. Did he participate in any way? Nope.

He didn't participate? Really? The order to reform the team to look for Bin Laden came from the president. Without that order, the team would never have reformed. But, the president had nothing to do with it. OK, then...>.>

[MadMike]

No, Obama had 10 years worth of intel instead of Bush's 8. If the CIA had figured it out while Bush was president, it would have been done during that presidency. Obama had everything Bush got to work with, and then some.


And if Bush hadn't been fucking around with Iraq, we probably would have had Bin Laden under Bush's watch.

[kiwi]

I love watching all the pedantic contortions people go through just to deny Obama any credit for anything that's gotten done while he's been president just because they can't get over their own bigotry against him.

^-.-^

I love you:D

[Eisa]

To take this logic a step further, should Charles Manson have ever been arrested for the murder of Sharon Tate? After all, he never actually stabbed her or her guests. Just like Bin Laden he only "gave the orders."

Just a little food for thought.


Hey speaking of Charles Manson...:p (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/04/imprisoned-serial-killer-charles-manson-obamas-idiot)

[Gravekeeper]

I provided a distraction out here. I should be given a medal.

Bigotry? Really? This is a much clearer case. Did he participate in any way? Nope.

You know I was going to, yet again, write up another counter point. But its admittedly getting kind of futile. So I'll just go with Andara on this one.

[Greenday]

He didn't participate? Really? The order to reform the team to look for Bin Laden came from the president. Without that order, the team would never have reformed. But, the president had nothing to do with it. OK, then...>.>

The president wasn't a part of the mission. He certainly wasn't here training with them. He didn't fly a helicopter. He didn't ride in the helicopter. He didn't join in on the raid. He did nothing to gather the intel.

That there covers the actual mission. I'm missing the part where he did something. Congratulations, he was a glorified deskjockey who said, "Go for it." Whoopee, that wasn't part of the actual mission.

Go ahead, suggest I'm a bigot. All I hear is "Shit, I have no argument so I'm going to revert to name calling."

[Gravekeeper]

That there covers the actual mission. I'm missing the part where he did something. Congratulations, he was a glorified deskjockey who said, "Go for it." Whoopee, that wasn't part of the actual mission.


President of the US is the easiest job the world then apparently! No problem, just gotta say things! Decisions like "Hey should we conduct a military strike inside the borders of a soveirgn nation without their consent when we don't definitively know if the target is even there"? No problem! Its not like international relations with a Islamic nuclear state next to Afghanistan are an important consideration or anything.

This was a tough call to make, he deserves some credit whether you like it or not.

[CaptainJaneway]

And there would have been no mission at if Obama did not give the orders to find Bin Laden and take him down. So I think the president who is the commander and chief of the military deserves some credit for taking action against an evil man who has orchestraed the death of thousands of innocence people. IF Obama didn't have the military take out Bin laden he would still be plotting ways to hurt more innocence people. He could have done a George Bush and not cared about finding that piece of scum.

From what i understand it was the military advisors who wanted to drop a bomb on the place when Obama suggest of taking a team in and doing it covertly. By them doing wha they did they were able to take and information they found. There is so much stuff for them to go through.

Perfect Example http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_bin_laden_rail_threat

[Greenday]

Go into a country that has been hiding Osama bin Laden and expect them to be outraged instead of acting embarassed to save political face? Sounds pretty reasonable to me. I feel like it's giving him credit for a successful patrol going on outside the base. Once you start giving people credit for miniscule things, it takes away real credit from those who deserve it.

Your perfect example involves plans that never even went past initial planning phases. This isn't a rare occurance. If it was an actual attack that was planned, I concede something of value was discovered. But this isn't the first time that we found out about something that hasn't been put into anything beyond planning.

[DrFaroohk]

The leader ALWAYS deserves some semblance of credit. The shift leader gets credit when the shift goes well. The store manager gets credit when the whole store makes money. The senator gets credit when a bill passes. The general gets credit when the army wins a battle. Even though most of these people had very little to do with the actions that resulted in the victory. You don't see the General out there holding a rifle do you? But he still gets credit. The leader always does, and it's simply not fair to deny them any credit at all.

Also, I don't exactly see a whole lot of people yelling "ALL HEIL OBAMA FOR PERSONALLY CATCHING OBL!" I'm not even sure why we started arguing about this lol....

[AdminAssistant]

Obama refocused our energies on the search for Bin Laden. Bush didn't care, never did, and never pretended to. All he wanted was to hunt down and kill the guy that embarrassed his Daddy. If anything, Obama should get credit for refocusing our energies where they need to be.

[kiwi]

Obama refocused our energies on the search for Bin Laden. Bush didn't care, never did, and never pretended to. All he wanted was to hunt down and kill the guy that embarrassed his Daddy. If anything, Obama should get credit for refocusing our energies where they need to be.

I love you to!

[kiwi]

http://cheezfailbooking.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/funny-facebook-fails-copy-pasta-of-the-day-who-deserves-credit.jpg

[KnitShoni]

Once you start giving people credit for miniscule things, it takes away real credit from those who deserve it.



And if that's what folks were doing, I'd see your point.

[Boozy]

I have heard more credit extended to the Navy Seals than to Obama. Mostly I'm hearing:

"US Navy Seals are awesome! Best special forces in the world! Makes me proud to be American."

- and -

"What did Obama have to do with it, anyway?"

It seems that people are so quick to deny any credit to the President that they don't even wait for any to be extended first.

(I do recognize that "Things Boozy Hears on the Internet" is not a representational sample. Just my observations.)

[Ree]

I do recognize that "Things Boozy Hears on the Internet" is not a representational sample.:lol::lol:
I love that!