Lawmaker says women should plan ahead in case of rape

[Akasa]

After all he carries a spare tire, its same thing.

http://www.care2.com/causes/womens-rights/blog/lawmaker-says-women-should-plan-ahead-in-case-of-rape-since-he-carries-a-spare-tire/

[AdminAssistant]

Gotta love Kansas. :rolleyes: I've often said that the Topeka/Lawrence/Kansas City part of Kansas should form a separate state to get away from all the West Kansas conservative loonies.

[HYHYBT]

You know, I could follow that logic.... IF health insurance were normally split up like that, where you had to guess at what problems you might have and buy separate coverage for every possibility. But (last I checked) it doesn't. So why should this be treated differently?

[Greenday]

You know, I could follow that logic.... IF health insurance were normally split up like that, where you had to guess at what problems you might have and buy separate coverage for every possibility. But (last I checked) it doesn't. So why should this be treated differently?

Exactly, this is health insurance, not car insurance.

Let's say he gets raped so hard his butthole is literally ripped and needs stitches. I guess he should have to pay the entire thing out of pocket since he doesn't have rape insurance.

[Ghel]

Worst part is, this bill passed by a wide margin.

http://www.mcphersonsentinel.com/newsnow/x1058165813/Kansas-backs-bill-restricting-abortion-coverage

If the bill becomes law as expected, starting in July, individuals and employers who want abortion coverage would have to buy supplemental policies that cover only abortion. ...

The legislation also says that no state or federally administered health-insurance exchange in Kansas established under last year's federal health care overhaul law can offer coverage for abortions, other than to save a woman's life.
So a woman who becomes pregnant via rape or incest has to pay for an abortion out of her own pocket, IF she can afford it. That's horrifying.

I would view this as an important conscience protection for Kansas business owners.
"Conscience protection"? What an asshat. Kinzer has no conscience to protect.

"There's clearly a message here that women are dispensable," said state Rep. Annie Kuether, a Topeka Democrat and one of the Legislature's shrinking number of abortion rights supporters. "I'm sick and tired of being treated like a second-class citizen."
Yay for at least one reasonable person in Kansas' Legislature!

ETA: This law amounts to forcing women to pay an extra fee simply for being female. No man will ever need an abortion, and thus no man will ever have to pay for an extra rider on his insurance to pay for an emergency abortion. Way to promote equal rights, Kansas.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

So, I suppose then that insurance companies can then turn around and put quantifiers on their coverage, such as "refusing to pay if she was dressed like she wanted it."

Much in the same way car insurance won't pay if you were found to be drunk.

I suppose if you want to get the women in your society into the burqa, this would make for a great start.

You know what's sad? That I am no longer stunned to understand just how many people across the globe truly, in their heart of hearts, despise women.

[XCashier]

You know what's sad? That I am no longer stunned to understand just how many people across the globe truly, in their heart of hearts, despise women.
Agreed. Sadder still, the women-haters are not all men. :(

Back on topic, that article...yet another rich white right-wing male who Just Doesn't Get It. I hope this gets him voted out of office next election.

Looks like there's a protest in the works (http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2011/05/pete_degraaf_spare_tire_rape_now.php). Too bad they're toy car-sized spare tires. A big heaping pile of actual automobile spare tires outside his headquarters would send a bigger message.

[Rapscallion]

I thought most republicans who are loud in the media wanted to ban abortion altogether? Paying insurance so it can be afforded is ... an odd position to take in that instance.

In the meantime, I hate him. Lots.

Rapscallion

[Ghel]

Excuse me if I ramble. I'm so pissed off I can't form ordered thoughts.

Insurance is meant to protect you from things that you expect to happen to you eventually. Drive (or ride in a vehicle) long enough, and you're likely to be involved in an accident. Live any length of time and you'll likely have need of a medical procedure. But we shouldn't have to expect (whether the statistics support it or not) that at some point during our lives, we'll be raped. That's not something that you should have to "plan ahead for" (as DeGraaf says) by starting a "rainy day" fund or having extra insurance.

This law seems to be a subtle form of discrimination. (I mean, besides the obvious gender discrimination.) Those upper- or middle-income women who need an abortion are more likely to be able to afford one (or afford the insurance) than lower-income women. Additionally, women who are part of dual-income households (that is, married women) are more likely to be able to afford the procedure. So this legislation is another way of keeping poor people poor and perpetuating the division between the "haves" and the "have-nots."

[Andara Bledin]

This law seems to be a subtle form of discrimination. (I mean, besides the obvious gender discrimination.) Those upper- or middle-income women who need an abortion are more likely to be able to afford one (or afford the insurance) than lower-income women. Additionally, women who are part of dual-income households (that is, married women) are more likely to be able to afford the procedure. So this legislation is another way of keeping poor people poor and perpetuating the division between the "haves" and the "have-nots."
I wouldn't call it subtle. Although I could see it passing under the radar of the less educated. Which is really a shame since it's the poor and the ignorant that will be most affected by fucktardery such as this.

But then, I've come to expect American medicine to be a century behind when it comes to women's health, and for the most part, it has yet to surprise me.

Although, as a possible light, there is a good chance that this law can be obliterated due to it being inherently and massively misogynistic. I'm certainly keeping my fingers crossed that it gets killed with much prejudice by people with their heads kept somewhere other than their asses.

^-.-^

[ExRetailDrone]

This is disgusting, to say the least! I am appalled.

Abortion insurance is in no way related to having a spare tire in your vehicle or paying for life insurance...AT ALL.

Sharp objects make their way onto roads and parking lots all the time (I had to get a tire fixed after I chose the wrong parking spot that happened to have a huge screw sitting in it that decided to lodge itself in my tire), so it's not too much to assume that eventually one will need to change a tire after running over something. Tires also wear out and lose air due to use and deterioration.

Everyone dies, and accidents can occur, so having life insurance makes sense because one just never knows.

But neither of those instances is a crime. Rape is! So basically, a woman has to pay more just in case she's a victim of a criminal act? Bullshit! A more accurate comparison would be if a home owner had to specifically purchase burglary insurance, y'know, just in case they get robbed. No other insurance would cover lost personal property as a result of a burglary. In both instances, a person would have to pay more just in case they are victimized. Fucking ridiculous :pissed:

[Boozy]

So, I suppose then that insurance companies can then turn around and put quantifiers on their coverage, such as "refusing to pay if she was dressed like she wanted it."

I shouldn't laugh, because it's a very serious subject. But I chuckled a bit at this.

The whole thing is so appalling it seems laughable to any reasonable person.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah, I get you. I mean, it IS funny, because it's so over the top. And we both know there's plenty of people out there that think like this.

The truly scary thing is that insurance companies make money by finding reasons not to pay. Your house insurance goes down if you're near a fire hydrant or have a security system installed. Your car insurance won't pay if you were drunk. Your life insurance won't pay if you die in a crash with an unbuckled seatbelt.

So you JUST KNOW that the next logical step is trying to discern if a woman was "at fault" for being raped.

[DrFaroohk]

DrFaroohk's thoughts:

To play devil's advocate, preparedness in itself isn't something one should sneeze at, whether it's for a flat tire or rape. You can practice good driving habits, and you can practice good safety habits. It's just common sense. But this guy sounds more like he's saying "it's gonna happen and it's your fault", not "Be prepared."

Also, if they're gonna be serious with this thing, they need to add a bunch of different policies. One for stab wounds, one for gunshots, a seperate policy for each if it was during a gang war....etc....

[Racket_Man]

Also, if they're gonna be serious with this thing, they need to add a bunch of different policies. One for stab wounds, one for gunshots, a seperate policy for each if it was during a gang war....etc....

during a stampeed of wild zebras, a racoon, 2 girraffees and a baby elephant passing through your house ON the 4th of July at EXACTLY 12:01pm in which you receive a black eye...

from a Daffy Duck/Porky Pig cartoon called "Fool Coverage"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcMFsgA9iPo

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Oh, and we need to quantify the perp as well. Of course, if a woman is attacked by an ex or a current husband, it's "not rape" and naturally the insurance shouldn't be expected to pay. And if he kills her, well, that that probably ought to trickle down to any relevant life insurance policies...i.e. they shouldn't have to pay if the woman is murdered by a domestic partner, right?

I suppose if it was a "date rape" (and for the record, this is a term I despise with a passion), we're looking at a gray area.

Also, was she gang raped in a place like Central Park? Is there a difference in payout if it was nightime? Or does that fall into the "she asked for it" loophole?

Of course, we need to figure out how hard she fought back...I imagine if there are no other injuries, then we can safely assume she was on some level okay with it and therefore the insurance shouldn't have to pay. I guess if she's in intensive care fighting for her life then we can assume she fought, but then we have to figure out if the other quantifiers apply.

I should be an insurance adjustor, am I right?

Actually, I have a better idea. Let's get the guy that came up with this insult, strip him naked, brand him with "I'm the rape insurance asshole" and then turn him loose in the streets.

[blas87]

Well, maybe this way I can get insurance to pay for a breast reduction, because I'd be preventing rape by not having large breasts to attract unwanted attention in the first place!

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Women over there ought to be flooding their lawmakers over there with this very thing, Blas. Talk about opening a can of worms.

I think they ought to be willing to supply burqas for every female person in the state on the state's dime. Isn't that reasonable?

[KnitShoni]

I think they ought to be willing to supply burqas for every female person in the state on the state's dime. Isn't that reasonable?

Oh no, see, burqas are Muslim. We can't have anything Muslim! This is America! :rolleyes:

What gets me is, the coverage Rep. DeGraaf is recommending women have is already in the majority of insurance policies sold (87% last I read), and, unless HR3 becomes law, will probably stay there.

[Rageaholic]

Ow.

That logic hurts.

I truely despise this mentality. What they're saying is "if something bad happens, it's your fault for not preparing for it". Let's ignore that if it weren't for the rapist violating another person, this wouldn't be a problem. Reminds me of an article I read on some woman who was abducted, but saved by her cell phone. It said she "did everything right" (made all the precautions). I got what they were saying, but it still rubbed me the wrong way, like it's the women's responsibility to defend against the rapists. It shouldn't be that way.

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

I thought most republicans who are loud in the media wanted to ban abortion altogether? Paying insurance so it can be afforded is ... an odd position to take in that instance.

In the meantime, I hate him. Lots.

Rapscallion

Well, currently abortion is legal in all states thanks to the Roe V. Wade decision.

Since they can't overturn that (yet...I wouldn't doubt they'll try to) they've come up with all sorts of restrictive abortion laws to make getting a legal abortion as difficult and cumbersome as possible, requiring ridiculous rules such as waiting periods, required pregnancy "counseling" (from church affiliated counseling operations), ultrasounds, fetal descriptions, vaginal sonograms and such.

All of this is to try and deter as many women as possible from getting abortion, even though it is legal to do so.

With this particular bill, they adding extra health insurance costs on to women who may not be able to afford them and are also allowing insurers to opt out of having to cover abortion at all. The end result is that one again access to legal abortions is severely limited for all women.

See the pattern here?

[Rapscallion]

See the pattern here?

Ah yes, sheer arseholishness.

Rapscallion

[Greenday]

Ah yes, sheer arseholishness.

Rapscallion

DINGDINGDING

*gives Rapscallion a cookie*

[IDrinkaRum]

As Detective Stabler (Law & Order: SVU played by Christoper Meloni) once said to an anti-abortionist who was male: "When you grow a uterus, we'll listen to you."

That's what I want to tell all the males out there who oppose abortion (and it seems that more MEN than WOMEN oppose it).

The Sexual Revolution really hasn't gotten far if men are still telling women what to do with their bodies.

[Rageaholic]

It's strange, because I used to be anti abortion, thinking that it was killing the baby and not taking into account instances like rape where it wasn't just a careless decision. While I'm still in the middle (as it's ultimately a decision that affects two people), I find myself getting more and more fed up with the prolife crowd. They act like I'm this murderer for voting Obama (who's prolife) while failing to take into account all these other issues. Like you know, the war. Because it would be better to vote a prolife president who's for war. :rolleyes:

Another instance happened at a church group I went to in my teens. They had this speaker who spent the entire session spouting pro life propaganda. He had the balls to say that abortion was worse than slavery because if you're a slave you can just run away. Yeah, I didn't go back after that BS.

It's fine if these prolife folk want to protect unborn babies, but too many of them seem to forget to care about others AFTER they're born.

[blas87]

I'd prefer if women put their unwanted babies up for adoption, but I'm not going to flap my gums and judge a woman in such a horrid situation like that. If keeping that baby, even just for 9 months, is going to torment and hurt her emotionally, she needs to do what she needs to do. Without harsh judgement and religion and guilt being thrown at her.

[Boozy]

I would say that gestating the offspring of one's rapist would be traumatic for most women.

I'm also certain that many women have done so, and raised and loved those children. But that is a truly remarkable thing, and I don't think the average rape victim should be held to such high standards.

[radiocerk]

I feel that it's horrifying for a rape victim to lose control of what happens to her body for the minutes involved in being raped. But then to tell her that she has lost control of her body for the next nine months as well, that's a whole new level of power loss.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I feel that it's horrifying for a rape victim to lose control of what happens to her body for the minutes involved in being raped. But then to tell her that she has lost control of her body for the next nine months as well, that's a whole new level of power loss.

And control of her life for the rest of it.

I saw a bumper sticker (and yeah, I think a subject such as this deserves more wisdom than what is found on bumper stickers) that really spoke volumes and I never forgot it: If men could become pregnant, abortion would be sacrament.

It's too true to be funny. And too heavy to be funny. :(

[Ghel]

I very much doubt that the decision to abort is ever a "careless decision." If I were to become pregnant, I would have no qualms about aborting, since I have had almost two decades to think about whether I want children and what I would do if I became pregnant. This is something I think about every time I am around a child and every time someone mentions abortion. It is not a decision made lightly, but it is a decision I have already made, so I could act upon that decision immediately after discovering I was pregnant.

I don't know if my insurance covers abortions, but that has not factored into my decision.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

A lot of women who have never been pregnant think as you do. In fact, when I was younger, so did I.

If you've never been pregnant, I assure you that you have not "already made" the decision. Things get "real" when you're pregnant, and it's no longer hypothetical or academic at that point.

I'm not making light of your conviction, I'm just saying that when you are actually pregnant, things are not as they appeared before you were.

Lawmakers trying to add turmoil and angst and confusion to what is already usually a gut wrenching, highly personal decision to further their own agenda is disgusting and misogynistic.

[Rageaholic]

I very much doubt that the decision to abort is ever a "careless decision." If I were to become pregnant, I would have no qualms about aborting, since I have had almost two decades to think about whether I want children and what I would do if I became pregnant. This is something I think about every time I am around a child and every time someone mentions abortion. It is not a decision made lightly, but it is a decision I have already made, so I could act upon that decision immediately after discovering I was pregnant.

I don't know if my insurance covers abortions, but that has not factored into my decision.

Sadly, many of the prolifers and religious fucknuts think that everyone who has an abortion is just an evil baby killer who doesn't care about anyone else. Like many issues, they see it in black and white, failing to take into account the situation.

I could start an entirely different rant on their close mindedness towards these common issues (abortion, divorce, gay marrage). Instead of trying to understand the situation, they just assume "OMG abortion! Sinner!". Sure they may be perfect little christians who never screw up, but they fail at compassion toward their fellow man.

[Ghel]

If you've never been pregnant, I assure you that you have not "already made" the decision. Things get "real" when you're pregnant, and it's no longer hypothetical or academic at that point.

I'm not making light of your conviction, I'm just saying that when you are actually pregnant, things are not as they appeared before you were.
This sound suspiciously like the things my female relatives responded with when I told them I didn't want to have children. "I can't stand being around children," I said. "It's different when they're yours." [To which I wanted to shout, "Yeah, I can't hand them back to their parents!"] "I don't have the patience," I said. "You'll learn it quick." "I enjoy my life the way it is," I said. "You're being selfish."

I realize that people (including myself) can change, but I very much doubt I could ever change my mind on this. I have a ton of respect for people who consciously choose to have children and make every effort to raise them in such a way that they grow up to be healthy, happy, well-rounded individuals. But I would never want to burden a child with having me for a mother.

[Hyena Dandy]

they may be perfect little christians who never screw up, but they fail at compassion toward their fellow man.

Which means that they're terrible, terrible Christians...

Being a Christian without compassion is missing the entire point.

[linguist]

This sound suspiciously like the things my female relatives responded with when I told them I didn't want to have children.

i don't think she meant it anything like that. the way i read it was more theory vs. reality.

example, by all accounts my mom never wanted kids. everyone i've talked to who knew her when she was younger says she swore she'd never have them, she'd make a horrible mother, she liked her life, she'd get an abortion if she ever got pregnant, and so on and so on and so on.

then she found herself unexpectedly pregnant with me.

when faced with reality of being a mother vs. the theory of never wanting kids, she found she felt differently. she couldn't go through getting an abortion, and she's since been pretty much the best mom anyone could ask for, despite her reservations about herself.

personally, i've often found that those who swear they'd make horrible parents make the best parents, because they care enough about their parenting skills to actually consider them, rather than assuming everything they do is right because they are "great parents."

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I'm not saying you'd change your mind or suddenly love the idea of being a parent.

What I'm saying is that it's never an easy decision. Even if you think now that you know what you'd do, you never really do. About anything major, really. I dont' think anyone does until they are really faced with the reality of it.

Couple that with the fact that when you're pregnant and all full of crazy hormones that affect your thinking, you can't say with absolute certainty what you'd do or how you'd feel. That's all I'm saying.

[Eisa]

:jawdrop::pissed::censored::flame::chipper:

I hate him. I hate him. I hate him. I hate him.

*cough* Sorry about that... :o


My views on abortion now are...if my bf got me pregnant, I would not have an abortion. I don't WANT kids, but I don't think I could have an abortion in that instance. Whether or not we kept the child is a different story.

If my rapist had gotten me pregnant, you bet your fucking ass I would have gotten an abortion. It's that or looking at 2 deaths 'cause I would have killed myself rather than have that bastard's kid. Not even joking.

[insertNameHere]

Eisa, 3 deaths, you might as well kill that fucker if your on your way out.

My ex got raped, she won't tell me or any of her marine friends who it was, just that it happened as she knows that guy who have a very hard rest of his life, short or living crippled. It is a great county we live in where the rapist is likely to get a slap on the wrist, and you would be tried for murder if you went to get a back alley abortion, or even travel out of state or country.

I guess some places want legislation against being able to travel elsewhere. I get wanting to make sure the woman knows what she is doing, but in a case of rape, wanting her to have insurance is just plain fucked up. Along with the associated costs of carrying the baby and getting checkups, somehow I think those cost more than getting an abortion.

[Eisa]

I was up for that, too, I still think of elaborately implausible revenge scenarios... :o

But yeah. I still feel kinda bad because I encouraged my sister to report her rapist [her ex and her baby daddy :rolleyes: ], y'know like YES you should report, he can't get away with it...

Yeah, they didn't even charge him. Or arrest him. He admitted in writing it was non-consensual. My whole family is still pissed about that one.

And yes, baby care costs a fuck-ton more than an abortion. Not being cavalier about abortion--I doubt except in extreme circumstances I could do that--but I don't think I have the right to take that choice away from anyone else.

[Ghel]

--but I don't think I have the right to take that choice away from anyone else.
And that's the whole point, right? If a woman has the option of having an abortion, but chooses to give birth anyway, she's still making a choice. And these imbecilic "pro-lifers" want to take that choice away from her.