Illinois Dream Act

[daleduke17]

http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/metro/illinois-immigrants-children-college-scholarships-dream-act-20110530

Illegal immigrants are getting MORE handed to them? There should be only one thing handed to them: an ultimatum. Either become a legal citizen or leave.

I'm tired of seeing more and more handouts being given to illegal immigrants than to legal citizens of this country.

[Andara Bledin]

You know, I don't really care if those kids have a chance to further themselves, but why the hell is it that natural citizens whose parents have been here for a few generations.

We don't need a special law for this. They should end up in the same pool as the rest of the scholarship hopefuls and not get different treatment unless they, specifically, are not legal residents, in which case, as daleduke17 said, they get the ultimatum.

^-.-^

[protege]

Tell me again why illegals are getting more benefits than the *legal* citizens of this country? If they're here illegally, they should either get their green cards, or be deported. Instead, they get *rewarded* with *our* tax dollars. What the fuck?

[IDrinkaRum]

Maryland is/has done/planning on doing the same thing. And Mr. Rum doesn't understand why I don't want to move to Maryland. :rolleyes:

I really don't understand this.

My brain is broken. Please someone put it back together for me. :D

[Akasa]

I could see it for legal immigrants, but illegal immigrants, no. Though if the kids were born here technically they are American citizens, and the kids have to have SS#'s or tax ID#s to get it.

[daleduke17]

Though if the kids were born here technically they are American citizens,

Which is another bullshit loophole as well. That would also classify them as eligible for the Presidency, wouldn't it?

[linguist]

Tell me again why illegals are getting more benefits than the *legal* citizens of this country?

what exactly are they getting here, other than the opportunity to have access to a particular scholarship (which they'd still have to compete for) and the opportunity to join a pool in which they save their *own* (gasp! shock!) money for college? legal citizens have access to thousands of scholarships that illegals don't. and this act doesn't even apply solely to illegals. it's for legal immigrants as well, but it's more fun to overlook that, i guess.


If they're here illegally, they should either get their green cards, or be deported. Instead, they get *rewarded* with *our* tax dollars. What the fuck?


did you even read the article? allow me to quote (bolding mine):

The children of immigrants, both legal and illegal, would be able to obtain private college scholarships and enroll in Illinois state savings programs under legislation approved Monday.

what part of "our tax dollars" goes into private scholarships?

as for that, if you're concerned about your tax dollars being used for such purposes, then own your greed and say so, but kindly leave me and those like me out of it with this "our" bullshit. i'm all for programs like this. i'd much rather my tax dollars go toward helping someone regardless of their immigration status become a better more productive citizen of the world than have them go toward killing innocents on the other side of the planet. or anywhere for that matter.

also, if you think illegals don't pay taxes, you're sadly deluded. (http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm) do all of them? no, not income taxes at least (though i'd be willing to bet they all pay sales taxes of some sort). but then again, how many legal citizens of this country do everything in their power to duck out of paying taxes or fulfilling other civic obligations?

Though if the kids were born here technically they are American citizens, and the kids have to have SS#'s or tax ID#s to get it.

what of those who weren't born here, but were brought over as small children, and this is the only home they've ever known? are you advocating that we punish the children for the sins of their parents?

[Greenday]

what of those who weren't born here, but were brought over as small children, and this is the only home they've ever known? are you advocating that we punish the children for the sins of their parents?

No but we don't have to reward them for it.

Seriously, there are more minority scholarships out there than there is for guys like me. I wasn't Italian or Irish or female or black or illegal immigarant so I couldn't apply to the majority of scholarships. So basically I couldn't get a scholarship just because white males have been privledged in history. Even though my family couldn't pay bills and I had to actually earn my way through everything, even though I worked and paid taxes, a lot of people who don't deserve it somehow? I have to disagree.

Woohoo, so if they get actual paychecks they get taxes deducted. So explain to me how that affects the tons of workers who get paid under the table and don't have to pay taxes at all as a result? It's not like that's a rarity either.

Then we have colleges who want to give illegal immigrants in-state tuition which is another load of crap. Maybe I should have claimed I lived with family in Pittsburgh so I could have ripped off PA/my school just like them.

[linguist]

Seriously, there are more minority scholarships out there than there is for guys like me. I wasn't Italian or Irish or female or black or illegal immigarant so I couldn't apply to the majority of scholarships. So basically I couldn't get a scholarship just because white males have been privledged in history. Even though my family couldn't pay bills and I had to actually earn my way through everything, even though I worked and paid taxes, a lot of people who don't deserve it somehow? I have to disagree.


oh yes, the plight of the white male :rolleyes: "woe is me, i'm white and male, and there's nothing for me!"

i'm a white male and while i have had to take a few student loans out, i've almost entirely paid my way through school on scholarships and grants. i haven't even had to look that hard for them. so there goes that theory.


Woohoo, so if they get actual paychecks they get taxes deducted. So explain to me how that affects the tons of workers who get paid under the table and don't have to pay taxes at all as a result? It's not like that's a rarity either.


the ones that get paid under the table don't pay income taxes. i said as much if you'd bothered to read my post. but they do pay sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. etc. and the ones that do have income taxes deducted from their paychecks are paying more into the system than the average american, since they aren't getting their refunds for overpayment and they aren't eligible to draw social security.


Then we have colleges who want to give immigrants in-state tuition which is another load of crap. Maybe I should have claimed I lived with family in Pittsburgh so I could have ripped off PA/my school just like them.

that's an argument that has nothing to do with the one at hand, but personally i find the whole in-state/out-of-state tuition system to be a load of crap.

[Greenday]

oh yes, the plight of the white male :rolleyes: "woe is me, i'm white and male, and there's nothing for me!"

i'm a white male and while i have had to take a few student loans out, i've almost entirely paid my way through school on scholarships and grants. i haven't even had to look that hard for them. so there goes that theory.

Well good for you. Maybe you came from an area where there the being a white male of German-Russian heritage makes you unique so no one pays attention to you. I applied for every scholarship possible for me. But that was a very small list. About half the scholarships were for women. About 1/4 were for Italians. The rest were split between sports scholarships (a.k.a. football and field hockey players because no one cares about the other sports), minorities, and the Irish kids. There was one music scholarship but that went to the kid who actually was going to college for music.

So yes, the world of political correctness trying to make up past errors DOES discriminate against me.

but they do pay sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. etc. and the ones that do have income taxes deducted from their paychecks are paying more into the system than the average american, since they aren't getting their refunds for overpayment and they aren't eligible to draw social security.

Sales taxes? Vacationers pay sales tax but that doesn't mean they deserve any benefits.

All I ask is that when people to move to a country, they do it legally. Not smuggle themselves in.

[Boozy]

Which is another bullshit loophole as well. That would also classify them as eligible for the Presidency, wouldn't it?

What are you saying? You don't want a natural-born American citizen to have the opportunity to run for President -- because of who their parents are?

Americans like to say that anyone can become successful in their country, but that's not true. They're still judged by things they can't control, like who gave birth to them.

That's how a so-called republic ended up with an aristocracy, and they're running the whole show.

[Evandril]

oh yes, the plight of the white male :rolleyes: "woe is me, i'm white and male, and there's nothing for me!"

i'm a white male and while i have had to take a few student loans out, i've almost entirely paid my way through school on scholarships and grants. i haven't even had to look that hard for them. so there goes that theory.

So the friend of mine who had to decide between feeding herself and going to school, because she had no support from her parents is mistaken, and should know better? But she's got the wrong color skin, and had the mistake of not getting support from her family like the state tells her she's getting...The fact she's been living on her own since 16 is another illusion she's under, dispite the fact the state had a hand in that...



the ones that get paid under the table don't pay income taxes. i said as much if you'd bothered to read my post. but they do pay sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. etc. and the ones that do have income taxes deducted from their paychecks are paying more into the system than the average american, since they aren't getting their refunds for overpayment and they aren't eligible to draw social security..

My friend works, so pays the same taxes, but would not get this benifit...I guess the fact she's on food stamps should offset her being able to go to college, since she was unlucky enough to have been born to her 'legal' parents.

[Andara Bledin]

oh yes, the plight of the white male :rolleyes: "woe is me, i'm white and male, and there's nothing for me!"
You know what, I'm not male, but white males get fucked because the country is so busy pandering to people who, for the most part, aren't facing the issues that used to be a big issue.

My brother was living out of his car and couldn't get food stamps, but while he's fighting over that, some guy drives up in a Mercedes, gets handed a was of cash and white guys are supposed to be ok with that because some point a couple hundred years ago, they would have had it better.

Fuck that!

^-.-^

[linguist]

So the friend of mine who had to decide between feeding herself and going to school, because she had no support from her parents is mistaken, and should know better? But she's got the wrong color skin, and had the mistake of not getting support from her family like the state tells her she's getting...The fact she's been living on her own since 16 is another illusion she's under, dispite the fact the state had a hand in that...


and your point is...what, precisely? and when did i say that anyone should "know better?" all i'm saying is the help is out there for those willing to take the time to look for it, and make the necessary sacrifices.

i've been on my own since i was 17, and my first two years of college i went to school on scholarships, grants, and student loans while working 2 jobs to pay my rent and feed myself. my day was basically school, work, home to bed, wash, rinse, repeat. was it hard? absolutely. i never said it was going to be easy. but it can be done. it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make as an investment in my future. those unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices or do the necessary work have no place to complain that it can't be done.

seriously, it takes all of 15 minutes to fill out the fafsa, which then gives you access to federally guaranteed student loans, and if your friend is truly as bad off as you say, she'd almost certainly qualify for the pell grant, plus whatever need-based grants or scholarships are available at her school of choice. 15 minutes is all it takes.


My friend works, so pays the same taxes, but would not get this benifit...I guess the fact she's on food stamps should offset her being able to go to college, since she was unlucky enough to have been born to her 'legal' parents.

if she lived in illinois, she'd have access to the same college savings pool that the bill is giving immigrants access to (and once again i feel the need to point out that this applies to legal immigrants as well, since everyone's worked themselves into such a tizzy over this that they seem to conveniently overlook that part). the only thing she wouldn't have access to is this one scholarship, but she would still have access to thousands of other scholarships, as well as federal student aid, that the immigrants targeted in the bill don't have access to.

[mikoyan29]

A few posts up there, someone mentioned that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. That's not entirely true. There are quite a few that do pay taxes and in fact, the IRS has set it up so that you can get a Taxpayer Identification Number to do so. Many illegal immigrants look at paying taxes as a back door way to become a legal immigrant. Also, if they draw a paycheck they end up paying taxes through witholding.

[Andara Bledin]

and your point is...what, precisely? and when did i say that anyone should "know better?" all i'm saying is the help is out there for those willing to take the time to look for it, and make the necessary sacrifices.
Sometimes. And somestimes those funds are denied people who are in need because someone else who has been deemed "oppressed" is getting ti instead, despite a lower need.

the only thing she wouldn't have access to is this one scholarship, but she would still have access to thousands of other scholarships, as well as federal student aid, that the immigrants targeted in the bill don't have access to.
Why is there even a single scholarship that a legal citizen couldn't have access to?

How about we work on fixing the immigration situation so that there isn't a need for kludged together systems that create more new laws, more paperwork, more bureaucracy, more loopholes, don't help with the immigration issue at all, and which discriminate against those actually born here.

This is feel-good legistlation created by people who likely have never really had to worry where their next meal would come from and whether or not they might be shot so someone could steal their car that they've been sleeping in.

^-.-^

[linguist]

Sometimes. And somestimes those funds are denied people who are in need because someone else who has been deemed "oppressed" is getting ti instead, despite a lower need.


citation, please? i've never seen a single documented incidence where aid was denied to someone with a higher need level in favor of someone else solely because that person is a member of a formerly oppressed minority.


Why is there even a single scholarship that a legal citizen couldn't have access to?

How about we work on fixing the immigration situation so that there isn't a need for kludged together systems that create more new laws, more paperwork, more bureaucracy, more loopholes, don't help with the immigration issue at all, and which discriminate against those actually born here.


*sigh* seriously, did anyone actually read the article in the op? the act applies to children of immigrants. this includes those who were born here and thus are legal citizens. all that is required is that at least one parent be an immigrant, regardless of immigration status of the child or parents.

[Evandril]

i've been on my own since i was 17, and my first two years of college i went to school on scholarships, grants, and student loans while working 2 jobs to pay my rent and feed myself. my day was basically school, work, home to bed, wash, rinse, repeat. was it hard? absolutely. i never said it was going to be easy. but it can be done. it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make as an investment in my future. those unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices or do the necessary work have no place to complain that it can't be done.

seriously, it takes all of 15 minutes to fill out the fafsa, which then gives you access to federally guaranteed student loans, and if your friend is truly as bad off as you say, she'd almost certainly qualify for the pell grant, plus whatever need-based grants or scholarships are available at her school of choice. 15 minutes is all it takes.

Working two jobs is a *bit* hard in today's economy, when most people, doubly so college students, have a hard time finding one...Luckly, colleges have raised their rates to make it easier. She's got mulitple grants/scholorships she applies for every semester, or else she'd not be able to be in college at all..and even then, she needed student loans to cover the extra. Redoing the rules concerning financial aid so the are fair and viable across the board sounds like a far better idea than trying to take the limited money, and stretch it to cover yet another group...Doubly so, one that, in general, does not pay as much towards taxes as others in the same situation. One of my friend's big problems is her 'parents' income is counted against her applications for aid, even though they no longer claim her as a dependant, nor have they had anything to do with her life for multiple years before college.

[Evandril]

citation, please? i've never seen a single documented incidence where aid was denied to someone with a higher need level in favor of someone else solely because that person is a member of a formerly oppressed minority.

So someone who is in more need, but cannot apply for a scholorship due to their skin color is supposed to be documented how? I'd love to find the listings of 'People who would have applied, but didn't due to not meeting the qualifications' listed someplace at a university... The only way to show it would be to take the total people who applied for either, and see who was denied due to lack of money in the fund...and even that won't work, since anyone can apply for any grant/scholorship/fund a white person can, while we cannot apply for all that someone of race 'x' can apply for. I know when I was in college, it was rare for anyone who wasn't white to need a job to finish school, while it was the given for anyone white who didn't have full parental backing.

[linguist]

Working two jobs is a *bit* hard in today's economy, when most people, doubly so college students, have a hard time finding one...Luckly, colleges have raised their rates to make it easier.


once again, i didn't say it would be easy. but it's not impossible, either.


Redoing the rules concerning financial aid so the are fair and viable across the board sounds like a far better idea than trying to take the limited money, and stretch it to cover yet another group...


they aren't taking money from anywhere else and stretching it. there's no tax money going into these scholarships. they are private.


Doubly so, one that, in general, does not pay as much towards taxes as others in the same situation.


doesn't really matter, since the scholarships are private.

college students in general don't pay much into the system. most have no tax liability at tax time, and thus are refunded everything they've paid in. this is not the case for most of the illegal immigrants paying in.


One of my friend's big problems is her 'parents' income is counted against her applications for aid, even though they no longer claim her as a dependant, nor have they had anything to do with her life for multiple years before college.

and this is just wrong. if she's over 18 and not being claimed as a dependent, she should have independent status. if that's not happening, she needs to fight it. i had to when i started college for the same reason. once again, it's all about putting in the necessary work.

[linguist]

So someone who is in more need, but cannot apply for a scholorship due to their skin color is supposed to be documented how? I'd love to find the listings of 'People who would have applied, but didn't due to not me.

i don't know, but anecdotal evidence is not valid proof. you can make assumptions as to why one person was approved while another was denied, but unless you are part of the selection process and have all the information, you don't know why that occurred.

[Evandril]

i don't know, but anecdotal evidence is not valid proof. you can make assumptions as to why one person was approved while another was denied, but unless you are part of the selection process and have all the information, you don't know why that occurred.

So, unless I am on the selection board for a scholorship that is for *ONLY* members of 'x' race, I cannot say it was not given to a person of 'y' race for a reason other than their race? It seems fairly evident that a scholorship for 'x' race only is discriminitory, though if you can show me a flaw in that logic, please do.

The private nature of the other scholorships makes it far more acceptable, 'tis true...but the fact *I* believe the money would be better used on a broader scale is my problem with it. Am I going to say they can't spend their money as they feel fit? Nope, and I wouldn't want anyone blocking them from doing so, either...but I would love for them to use their money 'better' (IMO, of course). If someone wanted to make a scholorship for people with z's in their names, that'd be equally acceptable...Far more silly, but still their choice.

[Andara Bledin]

If these are private scholarships, then why is legislation required to set them up? Where is the money coming from?

^-.-^

[Glados]

To file as independent for FASFA you have to be at least 24 years old.

[insertNameHere]

A few posts up there, someone mentioned that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes. That's not entirely true. There are quite a few that do pay taxes and in fact, the IRS has set it up so that you can get a Taxpayer Identification Number to do so. Many illegal immigrants look at paying taxes as a back door way to become a legal immigrant. Also, if they draw a paycheck they end up paying taxes through witholding.

You make some assumptions. Like that employeers who use illegal labor are actually paying them min wage or paying taxes and doing withholding. I really think we need to fix the fact that if you jump the border and pop a baby out, the baby is a legal citizen. I can't think of any other countries that really allow this.


Also, at my university we had the Black, Asian, Latino student unions and multiple scholars for people of color, non-whites..... However, if I were to make a white male only scholarship to help people like me who have very few scholarships to apply for compared to minorities, I would likely be sued for being a racist. same goes for making the white student union, I mean if everything is equal and their is no discrimination coming from the Black Asian and Latino unions... why not the white student union. As soon as white male is an officially recognized minority, we are still gonna be fucked because of shit that happened 200 years ago and took no part in. and in all actuality, my family came from Germany, Ireland, and Italy Much later.... SO WTF!!!!!!

[Glados]

It is perfectly legal and acceptable to have scholarships and other opportunities for white males. Typically they are more specific and focused on national origin.

This country is founded on immigration. It is not a loophole that those born here are citizens. A child who has known nothing else deserves to not suffer for the sins of the parents. The dream act is focused on a group of people who still have a far more difficult time attending college than white students. They face discrimination and economic hardship in far greater numbers and extremes than average white students.

[BlaqueKatt]

So, unless I am on the selection board for a scholorship that is for *ONLY* members of 'x' race, I cannot say it was not given to a person of 'y' race for a reason other than their race? It seems fairly evident that a scholorship for 'x' race only is discriminitory, though if you can show me a flaw in that logic, please do.

which is why they actually don't exist... (http://www.collegescholarships.org/scholarships/white-scholarship-guide.htm) there's your flaw...

Over the last five or six years conservative watchdog groups like the Center for Equal Opportunity (CEO) have called universities like the University of Michigan, Southern Illinois University, and SUNY on the carpet for racial discrimination in their admissions practices. At question are the scholarships restricted to minorities. In response to the threat of legal action, all have revamped their “minority” and female-focused scholarships to include white students and males

[Greenday]

i've been on my own since i was 17, and my first two years of college i went to school on scholarships, grants, and student loans while working 2 jobs to pay my rent and feed myself. my day was basically school, work, home to bed, wash, rinse, repeat. was it hard? absolutely. i never said it was going to be easy. but it can be done. it's a sacrifice i'm willing to make as an investment in my future. those unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices or do the necessary work have no place to complain that it can't be done.

So you worked to get where you are today instead of getting there because of skin color or immigration status? Hm, not sure how this helps your argument.

[mikoyan29]

You make some assumptions. Like that employeers who use illegal labor are actually paying them min wage or paying taxes and doing withholding. I really think we need to fix the fact that if you jump the border and pop a baby out, the baby is a legal citizen. I can't think of any other countries that really allow this.
Yeah, curse that 14th Amendment. It's amazing how literal Conservatives are towards the Constitution until it doesn't suite whatever needs they have. Personally, I would be all for that provided it also includes all people that are born here. I forget the percentages but there are "Americans" that couldn't pass the citizenship tests.

And as far as illegals paying taxes....It's not an assumption on my part.

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=222209,00.html

[Greenday]

It IS an assumption because when you say employers pay them minimum wage and they all pay taxes, you are factually wrong. There are plenty of employers all over the country who hire illegal immigrants, pay them less them minimum wage, and pay them under the table so taxes don't get involved.

[Boozy]

Ooh, where can I get one of those sweet migrant worker jobs where I don't have to pay taxes? They sound really awesome.

:rolleyes:

[mikoyan29]

It IS an assumption because when you say employers pay them minimum wage and they all pay taxes, you are factually wrong. There are plenty of employers all over the country who hire illegal immigrants, pay them less them minimum wage, and pay them under the table so taxes don't get involved.
There are a number of illegal immigrants who fear the IRS more than the INS, so they will get their Taxpayer Number set up so that they can pay taxes. Plus, it has in the past been used as a back door way to get a green card because they can establish supporting themselves and paying taxes. And an employer that is unknowingly paying an illegal immigrant has to set up all the tax stuff anyway....knowingly is a different matter.

[Greenday]

I can name a few places back home. Hell, I lost a job to an illegal immigrant just washing dishes. And it paid $12 an hour. My friend was the assistant manager so that was how I found out who I lost the job to. Perhaps a lawnscaping job? My friend's brother owns his own lawnscaping company and he can tell you which local companies hire illegal immigrants. Local McDonalds? Various resturants.

Is this actually news to people?

[blas87]

I am totally all for a natural blonde scholarship.

[Greenday]

I am totally all for a natural blonde scholarship.

But how does one prove this?

BAD GREENDAY BAD! MUST NOT THINK BAD THOUGHTS!

[blas87]

Baby pictures, pictures of me as a kid, inspecting the roots growing out of my head, nowhere near as blonde as the highlights but still yes, blonde.

You spoke of an Italian scholarship? Well fuck. I'm part Italian.

[kiwi]

You make some assumptions. Like that employeers who use illegal labor are actually paying them min wage or paying taxes and doing withholding. I really think we need to fix the fact that if you jump the border and pop a baby out, the baby is a legal citizen. I can't think of any other countries that really allow this.


The USA and Canada offer birthright citizenship as well as, Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, Pakistan, Ecuador, El Salvador, Fiji, Jamaica just to name a few. 33 in total that I could find.

[mikoyan29]

The USA and Canada offer birthright citizenship as well as, Argentina, Mexico, Venezuela, Peru, Pakistan, Ecuador, El Salvador, Fiji, Jamaica just to name a few. 33 in total that I could find.
If there wasn't birthright citizenship, then noone would ever be a citizen. I mean everyone in the United States (unless they are Native American...and even they migrated from Asia at one point) has ancestors that came from somewhere else. So at what point do you grant birthright citizenship? 1st generation...Obviously no because that would be an anchor baby. 2nd Generation....well the anchor babies could have been her long enough to have children of their own. 3rd Generation? Well, see above.

And as far as citizenship goes...I wonder how many "real" Americans could pass the Citizenship test that people who immigrate here have to take? Shoot, I wonder how many can jump through the same legal hoops that those immigrants have to jump through...prove you have a job...prove you're not taking a job from a real American...prove that you aren't here to do ill...etc.

[daleduke17]

If there wasn't birthright citizenship, then noone would ever be a citizen. I mean everyone in the United States (unless they are Native American...and even they migrated from Asia at one point) has ancestors that came from somewhere else. So at what point do you grant birthright citizenship?

Born of legal citizens. Juan and Maria go through the legal process and migrate to the United States through the proper channels, then have a kid. That kid has birthright citizenship. Whereas Francisco and Francisca float into Miami on a boat and just happen to have their kid on US soil, then that kid should not be a citizen.

[mikoyan29]

Born of legal citizens. Juan and Maria go through the legal process and migrate to the United States through the proper channels, then have a kid. That kid has birthright citizenship. Whereas Francisco and Francisca float into Miami on a boat and just happen to have their kid on US soil, then that kid should not be a citizen.
It's a shame that the Constitution is pretty clear on this matter:


1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note: It does not say anything about the parents.....

[Greenday]

It's a shame that the Constitution is pretty clear on this matter:


1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Note: It does not say anything about the parents.....

There's a reason we have The Constitution and not The Articles of Confederation. The former can be changed where as the latter could not.

[FArchivist]

Tell me again why illegals are getting more benefits than the *legal* citizens of this country? If they're here illegally, they should either get their green cards, or be deported. Instead, they get *rewarded* with *our* tax dollars. What the fuck?

The illegals are NOT getting more benefits than the legal citizens of this country. That's not what the DREAM Act does, though Fox & Friends like to make it out like that. It simply puts those illegal immigrant high school graduates on the exact same level as legal citizens in terms of getting funding for college. Whether or not you agree with that is up to you, but let's have clarity here instead of propaganda.

Also, point of interest: They're not YOUR tax dollars either. Once the taxes are paid, that's no longer the taxpayer's money; it's the government's money to do with as their Constitution and tax laws allow. See your local, state, and federal tax laws for details.

Which is another bullshit loophole as well. That would also classify them as eligible for the Presidency, wouldn't it?

Why yes, being born on American soil does make you a citizen of the United States. Although, I have absolutely no idea why you are calling jus soli, something that's in the 14th Amendment of the U S Constitution, a "bullshit loophole". Perhaps you should get another Amendment passed. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649 (1898) for details.

Seriously, there are more minority scholarships out there than there is for guys like me.

Well, duh. Guys like you and me are white, Christian, and male. We beat out every other demographic in the United States. White male Christians like us STILL run this country and we STILL get first pick of the plum stuff. Kind of not a surprise, considering the pass on privilege we get.

My brother was living out of his car and couldn't get food stamps, but while he's fighting over that, some guy drives up in a Mercedes, gets handed a was of cash and white guys are supposed to be ok with that because some point a couple hundred years ago, they would have had it better.

This doesn't ring right. Welfare, food stamps, or any state/federal benefits of that nature in any of the 50 states are NOT given out in "wads of cash". Not even unemployment is given out in cash. So what state did this happen in and when?

It seems fairly evident that a scholorship for 'x' race only is discriminitory, though if you can show me a flaw in that logic, please do.

1) All such scholarships that are specifically desgined for 'x' race are PRIVATE scholarships, not public scholarships. Legal cases have determined that private organizations may discriminate in that manner.

2) If you're a white guy and you need a scholarship based on race, the Klan, the American Nazi Party, and this Texas group (http://www.fastweb.com/student-life/articles/3034-texas-organization-opens-exclusive-white-male-scholarship)are happy to offer you one. Enjoy.

Born of legal citizens. Juan and Maria go through the legal process and migrate to the United States through the proper channels, then have a kid. That kid has birthright citizenship. Whereas Francisco and Francisca float into Miami on a boat and just happen to have their kid on US soil, then that kid should not be a citizen.

Then change the Constitution.

Note: It does not say anything about the parents.....

Correct. And I quote:

The term "anchor baby" assumes that having a US citizen child confers immigration benefits on the parents and extended family, as immigration law does allows a US citizen child to sponsor his/her parents when he/she turns 21. Once the child turns 18, immigration law also allows a US citizen child to sponsor his/her own siblings with a 15 to 23 year quota delay. Immigration law does not provide categories for any other relatives that would apply in this situation. In addition, if the parents are illegal immigrants, they are usually barred from immigration despite having a sponsor.

[protege]

It simply puts those illegal immigrant high school graduates on the exact same level as legal citizens in terms of getting funding for college. Whether or not you agree with that is up to you, but let's have clarity here instead of propaganda.

We have our own (legal) citizens to worry about. Why should our own people have to compete with those who are here illegally? By "our own people" I mean those who were born here, or became legal. Yet, these illegals, should be put on the same level? How is that fair?

[mikoyan29]

We have our own (legal) citizens to worry about. Why should our own people have to compete with those who are here illegally? By "our own people" I mean those who were born here, or became legal. Yet, these illegals, should be put on the same level? How is that fair?
How is it fair that children who have no choice of where they live are punished for the sins of their parents? Wasn't that part of the reason why some dudes dressed up like Native Americans and dumped some tea into the Boston Harbor?

[blas87]

My tax dollars aren't mine?

Ok then, stop witholding them every paycheck, then.

[kiwi]

Then we have colleges who want to give immigrants in-state tuition which is another load of crap. Maybe I should have claimed I lived with family in Pittsburgh so I could have ripped off PA/my school just like them.

Can I ask why you have a problem with immigrants who have followed all the rules, have immigrated legally and are not legal tax paying citizens having the same rights as someone born in the USA?

When do you think they should get the same rights as birthright citizens? 5 years, 10 years? Why is it so bad they get instate tuition?

I ask because I am going back to school myself next year and as an immigrant who has followed all the rules and am immigrating legally, one who has paid income taxes and into the pension plan, into unemployment even though I am not entitled to claim them as yet. Why do you think I should pay more than someone who was born here? While I am at school I will be working and paying taxes, after I graduate I will be paying taxes at my new job but somehow because I wasn't born here I should pay more? Explain that to me please.

I get the haterade for illegal immigrants, what I don't get is why people think legal immigrants are somehow lesser beings.
I never experianced racism and xenophobia before I immigrated, since I moved I have been told over and over again what a terrible thing it is to be an immigrant. How all immigrants (legal or otherwise) are low life, job stealing, cultural vultures. I find it really sad.

[FArchivist]

We have our own (legal) citizens to worry about. Why should our own people have to compete with those who are here illegally? By "our own people" I mean those who were born here, or became legal. Yet, these illegals, should be put on the same level? How is that fair?

Short answer: Because the legislation says so. If you don't like the legislation, get it repealed or amended. The voters of Illinois voted for representatives in their legislature who support that legislation. If you think it's wrong, see fit to get rid of it.

[AdminAssistant]

Honestly, I think all publicly funded scholarships should be based on two criteria:

1) Scholarship (ACT/SAT scores, GPAs, class rank, essay contests, etc.)
2) Financial need

That's it. Leave stuff based on race, gender, ethnic background, religion, to private foundations.

[linguist]

My tax dollars aren't mine?

Ok then, stop witholding them every paycheck, then.

they're yours right up to the point the government takes possession of them. once that happens, the money belongs to the government to do with as it sees fit, and you no longer have any say as to how it's spent.

[Gerrinson]

citation, please? i've never seen a single documented incidence where aid was denied to someone with a higher need level in favor of someone else solely because that person is a member of a formerly oppressed minority.

Sure, here's a great example, courtesy of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts:

When I was unemployed, with $0 income, - though applying like hell everywhere and getting no responses - I was at the point where I had to apply for food stamps. One of my roommates applied for foodstamps a few days later.

I was denied. She was approved. She went with me when I appealed the decision. Their rationalization was based on these facts: I am white and male, therefore I have the 'least' need for assistance, based on race and sex. Monetary need isn't considered by the commonwealth because I am white and male.

Since my roommate was a woman, she automatically supercedes me, regardless of our monetary situation - she had a part time job, but wasn't making enough to make ends meet. (If I had the birth records to prove my Native American ancestry, I would have qualified, by the way. Those records are a long story for another time, suffice it to say, I can only prove the existence of one grandparent, who was white.)

I took it further, and was told the same thing right up to my state representative's office. They sympathized, but, as history shows, white males have it easier than others so we go to the end of the list for any benefits. This is the official stance of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It doesn't matter how great my need is, so long as I count as a white male, I'm at the bottom of the list.

They did suggest that my roommate and I could get married, then we would both qualify for family benefits which don't take race or sex into consideration and pay more.

That is some seriously fucked up bullshit. I lived it. I lived through it because my roommate shared her food with me for a month until I was able to finally find a job and cover some bills. Good thing I wasn't living alone, or the state would have just let me starve to death.

A lot of people consider my opinion to be 'racist': No one gets special treatment based on race, period. We're all equal means just that, even if you've got polka dot skin.

[Greenday]

Can I ask why you have a problem with immigrants who have followed all the rules, have immigrated legally and are not legal tax paying citizens having the same rights as someone born in the USA?

Context. When someone is ranting about illegal immigrants, when they complain about an immigrant, they were probably talking about illegal immigrants. I'll go back and edit it for clarity.

[FArchivist]

I took it further, and was told the same thing right up to my state representative's office. They sympathized, but, as history shows, white males have it easier than others so we go to the end of the list for any benefits. This is the official stance of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. It doesn't matter how great my need is, so long as I count as a white male, I'm at the bottom of the list.

They did suggest that my roommate and I could get married, then we would both qualify for family benefits which don't take race or sex into consideration and pay more.

That is some seriously fucked up bullshit. I lived it. I lived through it because my roommate shared her food with me for a month until I was able to finally find a job and cover some bills. Good thing I wasn't living alone, or the state would have just let me starve to death.

Question: Since us white males DO have an easier time getting a job, why didn't you relocate to where the jobs are more plentiful?

[Evandril]

which is why they actually don't exist... (http://www.collegescholarships.org/scholarships/white-scholarship-guide.htm) there's your flaw...

Since the example I was giving was from when I was in college (Back in 1980s), my information is now flawed, my apologies.

As far as private scholorships go, I do not agree with them being restricted for anything but ability and need....Do they have the right to do it? Of course... Does that mean I have to agree with their choice? Nope

[IDrinkaRum]

Question: Since us white males DO have an easier time getting a job, why didn't you relocate to where the jobs are more plentiful?

He had NO MONEY.

With no money, one cannot relocate to where "jobs are more plentiful".

Since he was living on his own, he might have been living in a city not with family in it so they couldn't help him.

And how does one know where this place of plentiful jobs is? Today it might be Pigeontoe, Arkansas and then tomorrow it might be SmallTown, New Mexico to EastofBeltway, Virginia. Should he have kept moving? When he still had no money?

[kiwi]

Context. When someone is ranting about illegal immigrants, when they complain about an immigrant, they were probably talking about illegal immigrants. I'll go back and edit it for clarity.

When you are talking about two distinctivelydifferent groups, I think it's important to realise that the terms are not interchangeable. Espeically when one group is being maligned.

That would be like if I posted about how group of X white men are POS, good for nothing arseholes then in my post just used the term white males. I am fairly certain someone would be jumping up and down about that.