Speaking of Obesity...

[smileyeagle1021]

I started thinking about this after reading the thread in customer suck about "why america has an obesity problem"

I started thinking about some of my lazy fat coworkers who will use handicap parking spaces for no other reason than they are fat... nothing pisses me off more than coming into work and seeing a guy who lost his right leg in Iraq having to park at the very outer edge of the parking lot and hobble in on crutches because all the closer spaces were taken up by people whose only handicap is that they are fat bastards... honestly, shouldn't these people who are so overweight be the ones parking at the very edge of the lot and walking to the building so the guy on crutches without a freaking leg can be close.

Please tell me I'm not the only person who wants to slap these people and say, hey fatass, maybe if you parked further out and started walking you might take off some of that weight.

And for the record, I am now 95 pounds overweight, I have been working on and off to lose weight (the heighest I've been is 100 overweight, and that two weeks ago and I've been working on losing that weight, and am hoping to this time get closer to my goal weight than last time, last time I got down to 25 over my goal before giving up)... and do you know what some of the things I've been doing have been... if you guessed when I go out shopping I park out as far as possible and walk in, and try biking more places... and guess what, it is working slowly but it's working.

[the_std]

I'm sorry, but what you just spewed is blatant prejudice. What about glandular issues, or other major health complications that affect their weight?

I agree that the amputee having to hobble in from the corner of the parking lot sucks, but you are assuming an awful lot there, pal.

Sizeism is one of my biggest pet peeves, and it works both ways. Saying "get on a treadmill, tubby" or "eat a sandwich, you stack of twigs". Both ways, it's prejudiced.

[anriana]

So your center doesn't have enough handicap parking spaces to accomodate all of the employees with handicap parking passes? Or are these people parking in handicap spots without having passes? These would both be issues your center should be trying to solve.


I know we've had at least one thread here talking about invisible handicaps - do you have access to these people's medical records? How do you know that their only handicap is being "fat bastards?"

[smileyeagle1021]

maybe I should clarify a little, the person in particular that I'm referring to admits that he uses the handicap space because he just doesn't want to walk... which I'll admit leaves a sour taste in my mouth about other people who have no visible disability other than weight. I know that invisible disabilities exist and someone may look entirely healthy but have a defective heart valve or something like that, but knowing the medical community I doubt that is entirely common... my grandma had weight problems her whole life and she did eventually have to get a permit, but that was because she was wheelchair bound due to her age, not because of the weight, she had to fight with her doctor that she didn't need a closer space that she needed to walk a little bit further (which is another reason why I have a sour taste about people who park in handicap spaces without obvious disabilites because I know doctors who will literally give away passes).
And in regards to sizeism, I will agree and disagree at the same time (i'm a chub and I admit it). I have no problem with people being overweight, what I do have a problem with is the people who will complain about how their weight is ruining their life and then go out to McDonalds and supersize (this same principle applies to a lot of things), I'm sorry you can't have it both ways, if you don't like your weight you are going to have to diet, if you don't want to diet you're going to have to start liking your weight. (so basically I'm saying that I understand some people are overweight for reasons they can't control and it's not the weight that bothers me, it's the people who could easily have control of their weight, want to control it, but lack the will to actually control it).

[Lace Neil Singer]

Also, the amount of people who have medical problems compared to those who just stuff their faces is very small... and yes, I have been there myself, suffering from compulsive eating disorder, the "other" eating disorder, so I know that there are sometimes other reasons for being big other than the obvious. But to assume that all obese people are only obese cuz they have medical problems is probably one of the reasons why obesity is taking over the western world. Maybe if some of these people had a short sharp shock, ie someone telling them they were fat, rather than everyone pussyfooting around them and tiptoing around the obvious elephant, then they'd make an effort to be more healthy. An elephant is an elephant, not a grey, gravitationally challenged, big boned creature... and same goes for a fat person.

[Boozy]

But to assume that all obese people are only obese cuz they have medical problems is probably one of the reasons why obesity is taking over the western world.

Quoted for truth.

There are lots of conditions and medications that will cause weight gain regardless of what people eat and do - but only up to about 20 pounds or so.

There are a few conditions that will make people very susceptible to gaining weight, but as long as they watch their diets carefully they'll be fine.

There are hardly any conditions that will cause excess weight gain to the point of morbid obesity; they are so rare, in fact, that I find it annoying that they are constantly mentioned during debates like this. They are statistically insignificant.

However, I live my life trying not to judge people. There may not be many medical conditions that cause weight gain, but there are hundreds of social, economic, mental, and emotional reasons. I'm not perfect either. I don't want that pendulum swinging around to me.

Besides, I have no idea how someone else's weight could be any of my business anyway. Live and let live.

[Rapscallion]

I have to back Lace on this one. My mother is a retired nurse, and when she was working she asked a doctor about the statistics for obesity. How many people had genuine disorders that caused them to pile on the pounds?

A fraction of a percent.

I've overweight because I eat too damn much. A shock like that wouldn't work on me because I know the reason and result.

It tastes rather nice, I have to admit. However, I don't expect special treatment because of it.

Rapscallion

[IDrinkaRum]

Prejudice against those with obesity is on the rise as it's the only "acceptable" form of -isms left.

My husband is fat. I'm fat. Not sure about my husband, but I'm an emotional eater. (When I'm upset, I eat. When I'm happy, I eat. When I'm having an anxiety attack, I eat. Get the picture?) Plus, both hubs and I love food and we love to eat food.

However, I'm on a medication that causes you to gain weight. I was in a car accident where I messed up my right knee to a point where I can't do too much walking because of pain. I have a bad back (fell on black ice and then a year later I fell on wet wood, lower part of back was swollen and black & blue for almost 2 weeks). My back acts up if I walk too much (shooting pains down legs is bad).

I would love to lose weight, but we have no $$ for the gym and my BIL#2 keeps promising us an elliptical machine that he wants to get rid of, but does he follow through? No! :mad:

I'll figure something out, but please. I don't park close to the stores I shop at, and I don't normally over eat when I'm either at home or eating out. I'm just fat. Thank you.

[tropicsgoddess]

My paternal grandmother is overweight and because of that and her shot and small frame, she has problems with her knees. I am 5'7" and 180lbs, which is a little overweight. I can understand where the OP is coming from: talking about the lazy fat people as opposed to the ones who are fat due to hypothyroidism and other glandular conditions. The laziness isn't the only problem why the US has such a huge problem with obesity, it's also the diets and the additives in the foods we eat. When you go into a store, how many foods can you name that do not have any processed chemicals in them or that aren't laden with high amounts of sugar, salt and fat. Tons. What gets to me is seeing the overweight and obese children who are too young to get things like type 2 diabetes because of the parents not instilling good nutritional and exercise habits. How hard is it to turn off the TV and take away the video games,junk food and tell your kid get out and get some fresh air?!!

[Zyanya]

I'm overweight.


I am neither self-righteous enough nor self-deluded enough to imagine that people have no right to notice nor judge.

They are just as allowed to judge me for being 'fat' as I am to judge them for having two safety-pins piercing their eyebrows or a big honking tattoo of the word 'Mom' inside a heart, or a crucifix the size of a baseball bat, or a beehive hairdo with a thousand bangles, or enough perfume to kill a cockroach.

[Slytovhand]

I don't have a lot to say on this one (but hey... like that's stopped me before :P)

I knew a guy at work. He was quite overweight... probably because of the couple of litres of coke he had during his breaks, and the hambugers (plural) etc... all while sitting at a desk job. He wanted to get back into the police force, but they didn't want him (he can't run for squat). I told him (not having a medical condition) - "energy output must be higher than energy input". His response was along the lines of "Sod that - I like my food too much"... fine - then don't expect to get your police job!

As for American Food (ok...stereotype)... yeah... much of it is preprocessed crap. We had an american ribs place open up some years back. I tried it once, and was disgusted at how sweet it was, like it was laced with sugar. If it was typical, I'm not surprised.

Similarly, in the "Get off your ass..." thread, I'm shocked that WIC only gets carrots and beans for vegies, but is entitled to a large jar of peanut butter... nice message going out there!

(as for thyroid conditions... which way does it go? thyroid causes the other physical issues, or vice versa.. or emotions eventually negatively impacting it, or..... I know what current western medicine will say, which is almost directly opposed to alternative medicines...)


Slyt

[Norton]

I'm fat as well. I don't make excuses for it. I mean yes, I had good reason to be overweight when I was younger (emotional eating - thanks mom!), but now that I'm an adult, my weight is no one's problem but my own.

Like IDrinkaRum, I love food and I love to eat. My boyfriend is the same way. Between his cooking skills and my baking skills, most of our meals tend to be feast-like.

Physical activities take a toll on me because I'm out of shape. I get tired, sore, and sweaty easily. Still, I don't go out of my way to be lazy. When the parking lot is full, I won't circle for 10 minutes waiting for a close space to open - I'll simply park at the open end of the lot, away from the store. In fact, when it happens that I have to park a half-mile away from the store, the first thing that jumps into my head is "Hey, my legs work fine. I could use the walk, anyway".

However, if I spot an open space right next to the handicapped stall with no one stalking it, I'll gladly take it.

If they object, oh well, prevents me from having to weed out the shallow people from the pool of potential friends.


Well said.

[Greenday]

or a big honking tattoo of the word 'Mom' inside a heart

I have one of those...But its not huge. It's easily concealable with any shirt that has a sleeve.

As for the main topic, if it truly is a medical condition, or something along those lines, yea, I'll feel some sympathy. But if the reason you are overweight is because of just plain excessive eating, eating unhealthy foods, and refusing to get any exercise, I won't be feeling much sympathy if I hear complaining. I eat food all the time. Tons and tons of snacks every day. I drink soda a lot. But just by walking everywhere, I manage to keep most of it off.

Now, whether I feel sympathy or not, I'll always keep my mouth closed. There is absolutely no reason why people who are overweight should be put down.

[the_std]

I wasn't saying that the Western world has high rates of obesity due to medical problems. I know that it's a small, small number of people that are truly obese due to medical issues.

I just took umbrage to the OP jumping straight to the conclusion of fat-bastard-ism. Like IDaR said, being prejudiced against fat people is seen as socially acceptable, and that makes me sad.

[Zyanya]

I just took umbrage to the OP jumping straight to the conclusion of fat-bastard-ism. Like IDaR said, being prejudiced against fat people is seen as socially acceptable, and that makes me sad.

Some people have internal chemistry that makes them always smell bad.

Does that change that most people who smell bad do so because of poor hygiene?

Does that change that I don't care to be around someone with poor hygiene and am usually justified in making judgment calls about them?

[protege]

How hard is it to turn off the TV and take away the video games,junk food and tell your kid get out and get some fresh air?!!

That would require some effort. It's simply easier to sit on one's ass and watch TV or play video games.

I've also heard all the excuses -- "I'm big boned," "it runs in the family," etc. Give me a break. Unless you have a health condition, there's nobody to blame for being overweight but yourself. I have a bit of a "spare tire" myself. Do I go around complaining about how I sit around all day at work? Do I bitch about what I eat? I like my food as well. I try not to eat in excess, but when you consider that my grandmother's cooking kicks ass, it's difficult :p

With all that said, I've been making an effort to change things. I try to hit the gym (difficult while trying to get the yard into shape), and I've been eating things that are better for me. Sure, I have a cookie with dinner, but that's it.

What annoys me about the gym, are some of the people there. Particularly two somewhat-overweight ladies. These two usually arrive after I do...don't work out at all, and then spend several hours bitching about how "heavy" they are :rolleyes: Sorry, I can't respect people who do that. I don't put them down because they're "heavy," but rather because they're *annoying*

However, I give mad props to those who have decided that they *want* to change. For example, at the same gym, there's a woman...who previously looked like she'd eaten a VW Bug. Seriously. 2 years on, most of the weight is gone now.

[the_std]

Does that change that I don't care to be around someone with poor hygiene and am usually justified in making judgment calls about them?

I never said you had to like being around these people, smelly or fat or otherwise. But I do not agree that you're justified in making judgement calls about them. People are rarely justified in making judgement calls about anyone else, yet we do it all the time. It's just a part of human nature. I know this, and don't get myself worked up about it, but that doesn't mean I can't be disappointed by the prejudice that seems to be inherent in people.

And no, I don't spend all my time mooning about how "unfair" society is or pushing a PC society. It's just an observation.

[smileyeagle1021]

I just took umbrage to the OP jumping straight to the conclusion of fat-bastard-ism. Like IDaR said, being prejudiced against fat people is seen as socially acceptable, and that makes me sad.

If I may defend myself, I didn't originally think the person I was referring to had fat bastardism, at first I wondered whether or not he had some hidden condition like heart problems, or diabetes, or joint problems or something but after over a year there's been nothing he has said or done that would support any theory other than being overweight (granted he could just be doing a good job of hiding it, but he doesn't regulate his eating during his shift which he'd have to do if he was diabetic, he has no problem walking from his cubicle to the break room or bathroom, granted I don't have anything that I can have a firm hunch on heart condition other than he doesn't have a chest pain voice, I think many of you who have relatives who have had heart attacks and suffer ongoing chest pain know what I'm talking about), so no I didn't just look at him and go "fat bastard", I've come to look at him that way over a long time.
I would also like to point out that face to face I still show this person all the respect he deserves as a fellow human being and a coworker. As a rule I don't openly criticize people for things like they're weight because that is a private matter, that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it though.
I have actually once openly criticized someone for their weight and that was my mother, and 2 years after the fact she is thanking me for it, she says it hurt like hell when I did but she now looks at it as a painful wake up call that was needed, in 2 years she has gone from a prognoses of "you will be a diabetic, you will suffer from heart failure, and most likely your joints won't hold up past 70" to "you blood sugar is stable enough you'll probably never need any of the medications or injections, keep up on the exercise and your heart will be fine and take some calcium supplements and your joints will last as long as you do"
And yes I will admit to being somewhat of a crusader to get people to live healthier, why because when I was 5 years old I visited my Grandpa 2 hours before he passed away from a combination of lung cancer from smoking and liver failure from drinking, and til the day I die I will remember how much pain he was in, then growing up I saw my grandma's diabetes go from bad to worse as her weight problem started getting more out of hand, saw her go through 5, yes 5, heart attacks. I know what pain that is and yes I do get a certain satisfaction out of preventing that pain from coming down on myself and others.

[the_std]

Smiley, I didn't mean to conjecture that you were a bad person, or that you were trying to make this person's life difficult, or anything like that. A painful wake-up call to someone you know and love (your mother) might be a good idea, because you know what she's going through.

It's just hard to say that that same method can be equally applied to strangers, and I've heard the words you said (fat people should get off their asses and get in shape) many times before, and it sounds like a simple assumption that these people are lazy. That's the part I don't agree with.

[AFPheonix]

However, I'm on a medication that causes you to gain weight. I was in a car accident where I messed up my right knee to a point where I can't do too much walking because of pain. I have a bad back (fell on black ice and then a year later I fell on wet wood, lower part of back was swollen and black & blue for almost 2 weeks). My back acts up if I walk too much (shooting pains down legs is bad).

I would love to lose weight, but we have no $$ for the gym and my BIL#2 keeps promising us an elliptical machine that he wants to get rid of, but does he follow through? No! :mad:

I'll figure something out, but please. I don't park close to the stores I shop at, and I don't normally over eat when I'm either at home or eating out. I'm just fat. Thank you.

Is there a community pool where you can go? That would probably be the easiest way to get a full body workout and spare too much stress on your joints.
Also, can you offer to go pick up the elliptical machine?

[Lace Neil Singer]

Swimming is very good exercise for people who have joint or back problems. Due to my backache, I go to the pool a lot cuz most forms of exercise kill my back. Despite my irritating body shape (hourglass; ie huge hips and bust) I still manage to maintain a size 14-16. Sure, I eat what I like; I love to eat, and I also have tendencies to buy cake to cheer me up after a bad day, but I take the slice, not the entire cake. I also walk anywhere that's possible; for example, down to the village which is just 10 minutes walk away, but there are people who suffer from lazybastarditis who'd drive.

[IDrinkaRum]

AFP - we've repeatedly asked if we can come by to get the elliptical machine, but he's got an excuse, and then he calls at the most inopportune times for us to get it and then he's mad when we can't (we're about to leave for vacation or one of us is dog sick).

I cannot swim. I'd love to try, but I have panic attacks (I almost drowned when I was 7). If I could find an instructor that can work with the problem I have (mainly, if I can't touch the bottom or sides of the pool, I panic), I'd willingly learn.

I would love to do the aqua aerobics but again, it's $$ and the fact that the times are so bad (why can't they be when daughter is in school and not in the early early morning or early early evening?)

[Boozy]

Try yoga, IDR.

Certain forms can provide a surprisingly aerobic workout. It's incredibly low-impact so it's easy on your joints, and more importantly, you'll build muscle. And as everyone knows, muscle burns calories like mad!

You need absolutely no special equipment and no babysitter (your daughter might even have fun doing it with you). You can pick up a DVD or tape at the library to get started. If you get into it, let me know and I'll PM you the titles of some of my favourites. :)

[IDrinkaRum]

Boozy - thanks for the suggestion! I'll have to do a little research to see what titles they have at the library and see about getting them. :)

[Zyanya]

I can't be disappointed by the prejudice that seems to be inherent in people.

Where is the inherent prejudice in not wanting to be around someone with a hygiene or self-control/laziness problem?

I also don't want to be around folks who having drinking problems, so I shy away from folks who smell like booze or who drink until they pass out when there is booze available. Darn my prejudices.

[Seshat]

I cannot swim. I'd love to try, but I have panic attacks (I almost drowned when I was 7). If I could find an instructor that can work with the problem I have (mainly, if I can't touch the bottom or sides of the pool, I panic), I'd willingly learn.

Walking in water is also excellent exercise for people with joint problems. The water both helps support the mass, and provides more resistance than air. And you have to be able to touch the bottom of the pool to do it.


And now for other points:

Some people are 'overweight' by weight/height charts for legitimate reasons. Body builders, labourers, and other people with a lot of muscle (and the supportive tissue such as extra bone, arteries & veins, etc) are deemed 'overweight' if you just go by the charts.
Some people are naturally larger than others - if you measure me around the wrist or ankle, where I have little tissue other than bone and skin, I'm much larger than most women. That size difference applies everywhere else as well.

So I don't believe in 'overweight' by the charts, only by body fat percentage. On the other hand, every time we have this discussion, people agree with me on this point. :D

Compulsive and emotional eating can be 'medically' treated; there are people who simply lack the mental tricks and techniques to break such a habit. Give them a dozen sessions with a psychologist who can teach those techniques, and most of these people will be able to lose weight where before they couldn't.

Once they -have- those tricks, of course, it's their problem to actually resolve the issue. It also doesn't have to be a psychologist or anyone in the medical industry who teaches them, which is why I put 'medically' in quotes.

I am in favour of people who have trouble losing weight being screened. Some will have levels of compulsive/emotional eating to the point where psychiatric intervention is called for. Some will have unknown thyroid or other physiological problems. A few will have anatomical problems. All of these should be redirected to the appropriate medical treatments.

The rest can get offered the services of nutritionists, exercise specialists, and psychologists; all of whom can teach them relevant techniques, skills, and information that will help them attain a healthy body fat percentage; a healthier body, and a higher probability of a happy life.

Whether they take up the offer or not is their own problem. And if they don't, they don't have any right to complain about their high body fat percentage, or the consequences of it.

[BlaqueKatt]

Prejudice against those with obesity is on the rise as it's the only "acceptable" form of -isms left.


not quite-people still hate smokers and republicans-(which I find odd as the democratic party after the civil war was advertised as "the white persons party"-I refuse to join the democratic party because of that, and the fact that they refuse to admit it)

[blas87]

I'm kind of torn on this one.

I work with a lot of very overweight, if not that, flat out morbidly obsese women (I say women because there aren't very many men). These women have gotten medical excuses to get out of doing certain jobs, despite the fact that in my department, any job is sit or stand. You can do either one, and no one will get in trouble for sitting all night if they want to. Do their doctors know that? Probably not. They just want to sit and look through a scope all night and make someone else pick up and put away their work for them. And they wonder why they are as wide as they are tall or why they wobble instead of walk.

I have to agree with Boozy and Lace that there just simply aren't enough medical conditions or medications that will cause people to gain so much weight that they become obese. With all these convenient medical excuses, everyone now has something to blame for their size. And those who have a legitimate health problem/medication problem get wrongfully accused of being fat and lazy. It's a sad vicious cycle.

On the other side, there are a lot of overweight people in my family, extended and immediate. My dad once was thin and lean, now because of all the beer and fatty foods he eats, he's almost 300 pounds (granted he's 6'4, but he shouldn't weigh that much). My mom has been trying to lose weight, but it's been hard when she eats the same food as dad. Luckily, she's only about 10 pounds overweight. Little brother stopped drinking soda about 6 months ago and dropped 20 pounds. Ironically enough, I cut it down to 1 soda a day and at least 8 water bottles a day and I didn't lose any weight. I had to use diet pills because I over-stressed myself to the point where I killed my metabolism and ANYTHING I hate stuck to me and I gained weight. Not sure if my body still will do that. I'm terrified to stop taking the pills because I'm back to what I've always normally weighed and I don't want to go through that again. Who knows, if I stop taking the pills, maybe in a few months I'll be on the other side of the coin trying to justify why I became overweight and blaming it all on stress.

My step gramma was almost 400 pounds. She had gastric bypass surgery and is now down to about 200 pounds (which is fine because she's a very tall lady, almost 6 feet tall). Grandpa was almost 300 pounds, now he's down to about 200 pounds, but he did it the old fashioned way, it took him a little over a year by just eating healthy and exercising.

I just don't feel sympathy for people who eat themselves into an oblivion the same way a drunk drinks themself to an oblivion, and then get mad at themselves or others for what they look like.

[Wicked_Lexi]

I get extremely angry when anyone (fat or otherwise) parks in the disabled spots when they are not disabled. I don't care if you are going to inside for 20 seconds walk the extra 5 meters dammit.

I am not over weight (thanks to a good metabolism and keeping track of what I eat) But I hope if I ever end up fat I have enough good sense and shame to keep me from parking in the Disabled spot!

[daleduke17]

not quite-people still hate smokers and republicans-(which I find odd as the democratic party after the civil war was advertised as "the white persons party"-I refuse to join the democratic party because of that, and the fact that they refuse to admit it)

And ironically the Democratic Party is headed up now by a black candidate for President.

[XCashier]

Try yoga, IDR....You can pick up a DVD or tape at the library to get started. If you get into it, let me know and I'll PM you the titles of some of my favourites. :)
Can you recommend a DVD for someone with a gut, bad knees and zero flexibility?

[ElMarko]

For the vast of majority of the history of life on earth food for most organisms was hard to come by and few offspring survived. If you didn't eat the most energetic food you could get when you could get it you starved and died before you could reproduce. If you didn't fuck whenever you could you didn't have enough offspring for your genes to continue into the next generation.

As a consequence we are deceded from animals that ate and fucked whenever possible. Now you don't need to do those things but the drives to do so are still there. We have contraception to deal with the problems of fucking whenever you can but not with eating whatever you can.

[Slytovhand]

For the vast of majority of the history of life on earth food for most organisms was hard to come by and few offspring survived. If you didn't eat the most energetic food you could get when you could get it you starved and died before you could reproduce. If you didn't fuck whenever you could you didn't have enough offspring for your genes to continue into the next generation.

As a consequence we are deceded from animals that ate and fucked whenever possible. Now you don't need to do those things but the drives to do so are still there. We have contraception to deal with the problems of fucking whenever you can but not with eating whatever you can.

But it's only recently that obesity has become the major societal problem it has... and that comes down to something else you implied... having to get the food.

Way back when... we had to chase it down, or work out in the 'fields' ('fields' being either actively cultivated, or naturally grown - but had to be searched for).

If you're lucky, you could get yourself into some sort of trading arrangement with the stuff you got for the stuff you want/need. eg - a tanner could trade off the skins from her kills, for the fish caught by the kid on the river.

We don't do that now, so people don't get out as much and do the physical stuff - thus.....

[AFPheonix]

Even then, I think we can trace obesity to more industrialized food supply. More refined foods = fat people.
People had desk jobs in the 50's and 60's, it wasn't until the last few decades that waists really started expanding astronomically like they have now.
Of course less physical activity also comes into play, but I think the quality and quantity of food is more suspect.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

That's exactly right. You know when obesity and metabolic disorders became seriously, seriously rampant in this country?

About the time the food pyramid came out pushing the idea that fat was evil and grains and pastas were what we needed to eat the most of. Who put that out? The Department of Agriculture.

Conflict of interest, anyone?

Anyways, also about that time, we started seeing a lot "low fat" products out there, all plumped up with nice, cheap, plentiful corn additives, particularly high fructose corn syrup. Obesity and diabeties skyrocketed.

Just think, most of the "Low fat" diet crap people consume in an attempt to help them lose weight are probably what is making them fat and unhealthy to begin with. And all this could be traced back to the late 80's, early 90's.

We as a society are fat as a result of what we eat. Yes, sitting on your butt all day behind a desk does not help. But it's not the bottom line. You body will regulate itself if you don't stuff it full of empty, nutritionally deficit crap.

Thank you, US government! I'm sure your buddies over in Big Pharma love the food pyramid! After all, look at all the insulin and statin drugs they are selling these days!

[AFPheonix]

A lot of the big selling statins are going generic now so Big Pharma is really not making a ton of money off of them. They probably make a lot more money off of the various repackaged OTC remedies out on the market. Cracks me right up when I don't have a particular combo in stock and just recommend that the person get the plain product with the active ingredient that they need, and they get all huffy because that one "doesn't work". Uhhhh....

I just try to shop around the outside perimeter of the grocery store and not go down the aisles where all the prepackaged foods are. I find that cooking up from scratch is about as fast as a prepackaged dinner, and tastes so much better.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

..... and they get all huffy because that one "doesn't work". Uhhhh....

I just try to shop around the outside perimeter of the grocery store and not go down the aisles where all the prepackaged foods are. I find that cooking up from scratch is about as fast as a prepackaged dinner, and tastes so much better.

Actually, what's REALLY funny about that is that in the long run, really, NONE of them "work." Statins, they way they are marketed now, are a sham and a scam. They may work for some people...maybe...but not because they lower cholestrol.

Prepackaged foods are horrid.

Here's a little anecdote. Woman who plays music with me was pretty much chronically sick. Turned out to have a corn allergy. So she cut out everything that had corn in it. We went over for practice one night, and she had all this stuff sprawled all over her kitchen table and was giving it away. At the time, we didn't really appreciate just how pervasive stuff like high fructose corn syrup is in our food supply. And it's HORRIBLE, horrible stuff. Some suprising examples of the food she was giving away: canned gravy (gravy! WTF is that doing with corn syrup in it???), tomato sauce, alfredo sauce, wine coolers (made with corn sugar) breaded meats, salad dressing, cheese spread, marinades, barbeque sauce, cocktail sauce, ketchup....the list goes on. Un frigging believable.

She dropped 20 pounds without even trying, after that. Didn't even diet. Just quit eating things filled out with corn syrup and corn meal and corn starch. And this woman is in her 50's and post-menopausal, so she's of a demographic that has particular trouble losing weight.

It's everywhere, folks. Read your ingredients. Believe me when I tell you that Americans are not fat because they just can't stop eating fatty foods. That's about as far from the truth as you can get. They are fat because we are misled, misinformed, and force fed stuff that cannot do anything but make us fat and unhealthy.

Did you know we have an enormous surplus of corn in this country? We do. Gotta do something with it.

What's particularly awful is that we've been so trained to expect sugar in our food that if it's not there, we feel like there's something wrong with the food. There's no way in hell there should be corn syrup in fucking gravy. Gravy should be savory, salty, fatty. In other words, rich and satisfying. They skim the fat out then tell you it's low in fat, so you'll buy it. Then they pump it full of sugar so you'll like it and keep buying it. Meanwhile, you get fatter and sicker, thinking that now you REALLY need low fat products. It's a vicious, desperate nosespin.

[IDrinkaRum]

People look at me like I'm crazy when I'm in the bread aisle reading the ingredients on packages of bread. I only buy the breads that have either sugar or brown sugar as their sweeteners in their ingredients lists. (All of the Wonder Breads have high fructose corn syrups).

I'm trying to get away from less package, processed foods. However, I don't like cooking for 1 or 2 people & hubs is always coming home LATE. So it's just easier for me to pop in a microwave meal for daughter and I usually end up with a PB&J sammich for myself. :o Yes, it's bad, but it's my hubs who wants all the fruits and veggies fresh & he's not around to enjoy them and it makes me mad. So it's either canned (very rarely) or frozen veggies.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Hmmmm, IDrinkARum, your post made me wonder about the bread we buy. (yes, we eat bread. Not a lot, but we like toast and sammiches as much as the next person) I've got the loaf here now. Low carb bread is hard enough to find that, at least for me, HFCS is not going to put me off buying it. It will put me off everything else, but in the case of bread, I have to take what I can find.

Nature's Own 9 grams of carbohydrates, 2 grams of fiber, less than 1 gram of sugar.

Doesn't seem to have any sugar at all of any sort, which is odd because bread won't rise without sugar. However, I see where there is ammonium sulfate (yeast food), so that explains that, I guess. There is no hint of sweetness in it, which I like quite a bit. I don't like sweetness in foods other than deserts or fruits.

It's good bread, you'd never know there was anything different about it (low carb bread is sometimes very chewy. I kind of dig chewy bread, but I've also had some extremely low carb bread that was literally like eating blown paper insulation.)

Good stuff, you might give it a try if you can find it.

[anriana]

AI just try to shop around the outside perimeter of the grocery store and not go down the aisles where all the prepackaged foods are. I find that cooking up from scratch is about as fast as a prepackaged dinner, and tastes so much better.

What are you cooking? Peanet butter and jelly sandwiches? Or are you saying ten minutes of cooking vs popping something in the oven/microwave, waiting ten minutes, and coming bacK?

[IDrinkaRum]

RK - Nature's Own is one of hte few brands I'll actually buy as it doesn't have any HFCS. However, if you read any of the Wonder Breads, from their basic White to their Light breads, there is listed in like the first 4 ingredients HFCS. Yeah, scary, right? Right now, I'm happy with Martin's Potato Bread. I switch between the regular Potato Bread & their Whole Wheat Potato Bread version. Neither makes good toast, but I don't like toast. If I want something toasted, I get English Muffins. Thomas' brand brags they no longer make them with HFCS right on their packages (at least the ones I've found at Sam's Club).

[RecoveringKinkoid]

You guys want to see some interesting stuff, check out Sean on YouTube. Do a search on "underground wellness". Here's a great one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufMKbOaYWok

BTW, I'm reading the book he mentions in the beginning. Amazing book, and I highly recommend it to EVERYONE.

[AFPheonix]

What are you cooking? Peanet butter and jelly sandwiches? Or are you saying ten minutes of cooking vs popping something in the oven/microwave, waiting ten minutes, and coming bacK?

Depends on how motivated I am, but a stir fry takes me about as long as the rice cooker takes to cook up some sticky rice. The fastest one I can do involves prepeeled shrimp, a bag of mixed asian veggies, and a splash of this yummy spicy lemon sauce. I can do fajitas in about 30 minutes including prep.
Barbequed kebabs take a little longer to prep, but I can skewer the stuff the day before and let it marinate overnight in the fridge and bbq in about 10 minutes.
My slow cooker is my friend. A roast, a package of powdered onion soup mix, a bottle of Jones cola tossed in in the morning, all done by the time I get off shift. Just gotta boil some red potatoes while I spread some asparagus on a cooking tray, drizzle with olive oil and a dash of salt and pepper and pop in the oven for maybe 5 to 10 minutes until super green, mash the taters with garlic, butter and milk, and voila, dinner's done.

If I'm more motivated I can get homemade mac and cheese made in about 30 minutes (so much better and filling than boxed) and quick fry some yummy chicken apple sausages to go with.
I work more than full time and train horses on the side, plus just got done with a 6 credit class. Granted, I have no kids, but if I can make time to cook a decent dinner now and again, anyone can.

[Slytovhand]

Nature's Own 9 grams of carbohydrates, 2 grams of fiber, less than 1 gram of sugar.

Doesn't seem to have any sugar at all of any sort, which is odd because bread won't rise without sugar. However, I see where there is ammonium sulfate (yeast food), so that explains that, I guess. There is no hint of sweetness in it, which I like quite a bit. I don't like sweetness in foods other than deserts or fruits.

Ai Ai Ai....

I'm possibly a bit rusty, but...

As far as food goes (and, for that matter, anything that was once living on this planet fairly recently) there is only 3 types of stuff that is in foods... Carbohydrates (ie - any combination of Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen atoms in general), Proteins (Carbon, Hydrogen, and Nitrogen compounds), and Fats & Oils (similar to Carbs - but different chemical structures). Then, there's also vitamins and minerals - oh, and additives...

Sugar is a complex - but easily break-downable - carbohydrate. Fibre is a complex carbohydrate (which doesn't break down so well). So... if that bread has 9g of "carbohydrates", and also 2g of fibre, and 1g of sugar - that's 12g's. (not all of it will be absorbed by the body.

Each molecule of sugar gives about..(?ummm - forgetting precisely now) about 4.1joules of energy. Each molecule of fat gives off about 3 times that. But sugars are absorbed straight into the body (hence a sugar high), but fats need to be broken down - and thus go into storage.

Oh - and as far as packaging is concerned - 'sugar' is usually 'cane sugar' of x-formula (?) C12H22O11 - yay google :p). Other sugars get nicely hidden away under different names - just to confuse people - fructose, sucrose, glucose, etc etc etc - all still does the same thing though... meh...This link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fructose_corn_syrup) is a lot easier :p Interesting to note the graph around 1/3 of the way down - and the relationship between corn and cane!

As for the massive amounts of corn in the USA... why not go convert it to ethanol, and help make the environment better and oil less needed??


Slyt

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Ai Ai Ai....


Sugar is a complex - but easily break-downable - carbohydrate. Fibre is a complex carbohydrate (which doesn't break down so well). So... if that bread has 9g of "carbohydrates", and also 2g of fibre, and 1g of sugar - that's 12g's. (not all of it will be absorbed by the body.


As for the massive amounts of corn in the USA... why not go convert it to ethanol, and help make the environment better and oil less needed??


Slyt

The 9g of carbs includes 2 of fibre and 1 of sugar, so it's effectively only 7 grams of digestable carbs.

I am just saying there was no added sugar listed in the ingredient list, which seems odd to me.

Why thy aren't using more corn for fuel is beyond me. Maybe because you don't get as much power out of ethanol, but so what? We've got an energy problem and corn surplus. I'm right there with you. :)

[AFPheonix]

Because corn requires a lot of energy to grow. If we're going to use up precious acreage to grow fuel, I'd rather we used something that used less petroleum based fertilizers and less irrigation, not to mention something that smaller farmers wouldn't have to buy copyrighted seed for every year.

[Slytovhand]

Oh - Sorry RK.. the way I read it was it was 9g plus 2g plus <1g - not as in 9g total (but I figure you figured that :p)

I reckon cos carbohydrate has a certain meaning, and sugar also has a certain (and probably quite specific) meaning, so they got around the loophope. I've seen that one before - such as sucrose is sugar, but dextrose (which is the same - but a certain type of sucrose) might be different. And then there's the fructose, maltose, lactose, and a stack of other -oses to go with them.

APF - we were thinking that if there's such a surplus of corn, it'd be better to use it as fuel. Not so much to actually grow it as a specialised fuel substitute crop. Besides - cane sugar would be better - you get the sugar, and the rest goes to making the ethanol.

And 'copyrighted seed'... sheesh!! what's going on in the world???

How come we haven't gone into talking about meat in this thread?? We consume far too much protein and animals fats to be good for us (in many many ways), and they contribute to obesity far more than the sugars (although, only because of the amount of sugars that stop the metabolism from using the fats and proteins as they should be...)

Slyt

[IDrinkaRum]

I'm trying to wean my husband off of barbecue sauce (he puts it sandwiches/slices of meat like meatloaf, etc.) because like the first or second ingredient is HFCS. :( Yes, Barbecue Sauce is needed for barbecue but not as a steak sauce/condiment.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

Yeah more effort goes into sleight of hand on nutritional lables that goes into creating the food it's describing. :mad:

You can thank Monsanto (otherwise known as "Satan".)for the frankenfoods and GMO seed that won't grow unless they are chemically suplemented. If you really want to lay awake at night, do some reading on that company.

As for meat and fat, that is not what is making people fat, although you are correct in that sugars keep your body from metabolizing fat and protien properly. But bottom line really is that you will not lose weight if you continue to consume large amounts of sugar. And really, it's not about the fat. It's about the sugar. Sugar is HORRIFIC on your body, to a point that people really simply do not realize how awful it is. It is responsible for a legion of human health problems. Obesity, diabeties, hypoglycemia, high blood pressure, migraines, hell, even cancer feeds and grows on the sugar you consume.

It's not the meat. Although the hormones and other crap they pump into it isn't helping.

This right here should be required reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Gary-Taubes/dp/1400040787

Check out my boy Sean on YouTube. I love this guy. This particular post is very relevant to this discussion: Don't be put off by the title.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjdy0n_gJq8


IDrinkARum, I meant to say, make some sugar free barbeque sauce with a little splenda. I don't know what kind you like, but you can certainly make the stuff with no sugar.

[AFPheonix]

APF - we were thinking that if there's such a surplus of corn, it'd be better to use it as fuel. Not so much to actually grow it as a specialised fuel substitute crop. Besides - cane sugar would be better - you get the sugar, and the rest goes to making the ethanol.

And 'copyrighted seed'... sheesh!! what's going on in the world???

How come we haven't gone into talking about meat in this thread?? We consume far too much protein and animals fats to be good for us (in many many ways), and they contribute to obesity far more than the sugars (although, only because of the amount of sugars that stop the metabolism from using the fats and proteins as they should be...)

Slyt

The reality is that using corn for fuel means it is worth more as a commodity than growing food crops. Farmers plant more corn to turn into ethanol, earn more per bushel selling it and the larger farmers also get subsidies on top of it. The bottom line is that less corn is then available for food products for humans and also for animals, driving up costs of meat as well.
This has also exacerbated the hay shortage in the US. Farmers are taking out their hay fields and planting crops like corn for fuel use. It really affects a lot of things without really impacting fuel prices.
The seed thing makes sense on some level. Companies develop these plants that can resist a lot of different diseases and are hardier. They need to make some money back on their input costs so they copyright the technology and make it so the plant itself cannot go to seed.
Proteins, fats and complex carbs should make up a sustainable diet. These are all much harder for your body to metabolize and therefore don't get easily stored as fat. Yes, some simple carbs are important to have for immediate use in the body, but not nearly as much as we consume now. My only caveat on the protein thing is that people with impaired kidney function cannot clear them out of their system well, and should adjust their diet accordingly.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

I for one am very interested in seeing what the fuel situation does to the corn suplus. Should be interesting.

[Slytovhand]

Yeah more effort goes into sleight of hand on nutritional lables that goes into creating the food it's describing. :mad:



What are you saying about me??? :p

As for meat and fat, that is not what is making people fat, although you are correct in that sugars keep your body from metabolizing fat and protien properly. But bottom line really is that you will not lose weight if you continue to consume large amounts of sugar. And really, it's not about the fat. It's about the sugar. Sugar is HORRIFIC on your body, to a point that people really simply do not realize how awful it is. It is responsible for a legion of human health problems. Obesity, diabeties, hypoglycemia, high blood pressure, migraines, hell, even cancer feeds and grows on the sugar you consume.

It's not the meat. Although the hormones and other crap they pump into it isn't helping.


Yeah - that's sort of what I was getting at. Given so much available energy in the body from excessive consumption of sugar (simple carb), it doesn't put the complex sugars (in the form of complex carbs and fats) to the use they are supposed to do.

I'd be an idiot (or a highly-paid pseudo-scientist) to say that the sugars aren't bad in the quantities they are - but then, that also gets combined with the more sedentary lifestyle we have in this culture.

It may not 'be the meat' nor the fats - but all of those in combination...yeah - there's the problem.


Slyt (trying to call up biochem from some years ago - and failing :p)