Hypocrisy and contradiction

[Racket_Man]

in recent months (or a few years if you will esp since Obama took office) there has been a goundswell of sorts by localities, counties and more broader governmental bodies to "ban" or outlaw Sharia Law. the reasoning behind this is not very clear except as a "preemptive strike" against what is happening on a small scale in counties like the UK, as a "backlash" against the Islamic faith, create more fear and a pandering to some extream conservative groups.

Wiki entry on Sharia Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia)

Oklahoma enacts anti-Sharia law ban (http://abcnews.go.com/US/Media/oklahoma-pass-laws-prohibiting-islamic-sharia-laws-apply/story?id=10908521)


Federal Court strikes down said law/constitutional amendment (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/08/oklahoma-sharia-law-struck-down-_n_780632.html)

basically the law/ constitutional amendment would ban "activist" judges from using Sharia or forgein court rullings while making decisions.

a short article I found on the possible motives behind this law (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2010/10/why-is-oklahoma-trying-to-ban-sharia-law-in-courts/22496/)

now here is where I am going with this.

all of the these goings on seem to point to "What can we use to stir up the voters in this electiion cycle???"

AND

that some of these conservative groups across the country are trying to pass laws that essentially mean or serve the same thing/purpose but do so under the guise of "Christian/family values" and that makes what they do OK. and there, I believe, lies the hypocricy. they want the law of this country to "reflect" some long lost (or never existed) time or place.

I like this quote from Carl Jung

Every individual needs revolution, inner division, overthrow of the existing order, and renewal, but not by forcing them upon his neighbors under the hypocritical cloak of Christian love or the sense of social responsibility or any of the other beautiful euphemisms for unconscious urges to personal power (Jung, 1966:5). (emphasis mine)

[Gravekeeper]

Frankly, the most dangerous threat to America right now is how many Americans believe the seperation of church and state doesn't apply when it comes to Jesus. The very fact any candidate for president is required to demonstrate how much he loves Jesus just to have any shot at the White House is scary enough as is to be honest.

I couldn't even tell you the religious beliefs of my Prime Minister. Because I don't know. Never cared. Because its not important to how well he does his actual job. I have nfi what the beliefs of my local member of Pariliment is either. Because it doesn't matter. They have no baring on his ability to do his job.

Hell I'd love to see a candidate try and bring up religion as a reason to vote for them in BC. They'd be tossed on their ass so fast by the media it wouldn't be funny. >.>

[Andara Bledin]

Precisely.

It's terrible that you can look at a candidate's bio, note that they're some religion that isn't a branch of Christianity, and know from that one thing alone that they haven't got a snowball's chance in hell.

While assholes are fighting against displays in a museum, we've got pretty much our entire political machine above the local level locked out against pretty much anyone non-Christian, and an entire nation that seems to think that situation is just a-ok. >_<

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

>_> Grr... It just makes me absolutely sick, absolutely sick. I oughta not post much more, because really, everything I can say on the matter has been said by other people, and said better. I'll probably just rant, and get all distracted with rambley thoughts and half-thoughts, then provide a bulletpointed summary. For those who really want to experience a normal HD post here, I will oblige by concisely stating my opinion on the matter of these laws, and of the people who think that seperation of church and state applies to everything EXCEPT CHRISTIANITY.

No. NONONONO. No. No nono no no no NO. No nononononono. Nononono. No no no no. No. No. Nononono No. NONONONO. No. No nono no no no NO. No nononononono. Nononono. No no no no. No. No. Nononono No. NONONONO. No. No nono no no no NO. No nononononono. Nononono. No no no no. No. No. Nononono No. NONONONO. No. No nono no no no NO. No nononononono. Nononono. No no no no. No. No. Nononono No. NONONONO. No. No nono no no no NO. No nononononono. Nononono. No no no no. No. No. Nononono


*No.

*No.

*NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[Kheldarson]

HD, you forgot something. It has to be a PROTESTANT branch of Christianity. We can't have the papal loving Catholics in...unless, of course, we can show that the Catholic is pretty much non-practicing anyway :P

[Crazedclerkthe2nd]

On a similar note, that's also why Mitt Romney has had trouble pulling stronger poll numbers.

There are a lot of evangelical Christians who believe Mormonism is not true Christianity. My own Pastor referred to it as a cult (Note his views and mine are not necessarily the same).

In the Old Testament, God ordered his followers to taunt and kill other people simply because they practiced a different religion than that of Israel (note this would not be considered Christianity per se because Christ had yet to be born).

As a Christian myself, I don't really consider all other religions "evil" or "wrong". In fact I find a lot of beauty and fascination in some of them (Judaism for example).

Having said all that, it seems to be that Religion is going to play more a role in this election than it has in a long time.

I'll be curious to see how overt Perry is with his Christianity if he gets elected. Can you imagine him holding official prayers on the White House lawn?

[Gravekeeper]

I'll be curious to see how overt Perry is with his Christianity if he gets elected. Can you imagine him holding official prayers on the White House lawn?

I can picture that putting the last nail in the coffin of the US's global political relevance. A lot of countries are pretty ticked as is after the debt ceiling fiasco. Electing a half witted religous zealot would probably be the last straw.

[Hyena Dandy]

I think it would take a lot more than that for the US to lose political relevance. Though it could lose cultural relevance, politically the US has so many ties to the rest of the world, I just don't see any way for it to lose relevance short of a civil war or something like that.

[Gravekeeper]

I think it would take a lot more than that for the US to lose political relevance. Though it could lose cultural relevance, politically the US has so many ties to the rest of the world, I just don't see any way for it to lose relevance short of a civil war or something like that.

The US will always have political power. But relevance as to other countries actually giving a damn what the US thinks, or does, or what the US says they should do is another matter. "Leader of the Free World(tm)" and all that. I know even now, after the Bush years and the amazing partisanship, racism, etc that crawled out of the cracks with Obama in office, I honestly wouldn't listen to the US's opinion on anything social, economic or political as a Canadian.

The US is essentially not just becoming but actively embracing its own stereotype to the outside observer. Which makes it easier for politicians in other nations to actively or publically dismiss the US as just being "American". Nevermind enemies. Once you start playing into the enemy's portrayal of you, you're just giving them ammunition for their cause. -.-

[Andara Bledin]

Yeah.

It's like they took a look, said, "Oh, hey, we're almost nothing like what the terrorists say we are! ... But we can fix that."

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

GK, can you explain the difference between political power and political relevance? Now I'm confused.

[Andara Bledin]

Power is the ability to make things happen.

Relevance is the ability to make things happen without actually using any power.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

But doesn't the presence of the power mean that relevance will spring from power?

I'm just a little confused, I'm not objecting. I mean, if I were in charge of a country, I'd be concerned what the US thought, whether or not I thought they were a bunch of idiots.

[smileyeagle1021]

There are a lot of evangelical Christians who believe Mormonism is not true Christianity. My own Pastor referred to it as a cult


well, in the strictest sense it is


cult
   /kʌlt/ Show Spelled[kuhlt] Show IPA
noun
1.
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

... but then again, that definition includes all religions.

I just don't see any way for it to lose relevance short of a civil war or something like that.

give it time...

But doesn't the presence of the power mean that relevance will spring from power?


That's kind of like the difference between "might makes right" and "right makes might"
Yeah, we can force people to go along for us, but that will only work for so long, once they have the ability to give us the middle finger and do their own thing they will, as compared to people wanting to follow us and who will continue to follow us even when they no longer have to.

[Andara Bledin]

That's kind of like the difference between "might makes right" and "right makes might"
Yeah, we can force people to go along for us, but that will only work for so long, once they have the ability to give us the middle finger and do their own thing they will, as compared to people wanting to follow us and who will continue to follow us even when they no longer have to.
Excellent breakdown.

^-.-^

[Hyena Dandy]

That's kind of like the difference between "might makes right" and "right makes might"
Yeah, we can force people to go along for us, but that will only work for so long, once they have the ability to give us the middle finger and do their own thing they will, as compared to people wanting to follow us and who will continue to follow us even when they no longer have to.

Okay, thank you for explaining it.

The US is behind in a lot of things, and I'm pretty sure there aren't many people who consider us groundbreaking when it comes to putting forward ideas into the political sphere, and they haven't for a long time.

Now that I understand what GK meant by end of political relevance

I think we don't have any 'relevance' right now anyway.

[BlaqueKatt]

While assholes are fighting against displays in a museum, we've got pretty much our entire political machine above the local level locked out against pretty much anyone non-Christian, and an entire nation that seems to think that situation is just a-ok.

that is not the only lawsuit (http://www.atheists.org/law) the american atheists are currently fighting, one that's getting very little attention is the one from KY, where the state is attempting to exclude anyone non christian from holding political office. And there are people pushing a bill (http://www.silive.com/september-11/index.ssf/2011/09/staten_island_rep_michael_grim.html) through congress at this moment trying to make the cross a national monument to the faith of America*, American Atheists does not choose it's battles by "well this inclusion of religion isn't so bad, we'll ignore that, and wait for the really big one", it's the camel's foot in the tent. Simply put if not challenged it sets precedent and cannot be challenged, neither can anything similar. American Atheists started with the landmark lawsuit to get mandatory prayer out of public schools.

*“By establishing the 9/11 Memorial Cross as a national monument, we ensure this symbol of freedom continues to stand for all those we lost and those whose faith remains to this day.” - Rep Grimm This is also an attempt to "secularize" the christian symbol of the cross, once one is established as a "secular" symbol it can be placed anywhere, thus granting christianity preferential treatment above all other religions.